Is Indonesia correct for executing drug dealers from other countries?
| They've already done it with Brazilians and Australians. Just what are they thinking? Does a country really have the right of executing a citizen of another country? Two thousands years ago, if you were a Roman citizen and were to be executed outside the Roman empire, you could just say "I am Roman thus I require a fair trial" and they would take you to Rome. Law was really strong and nationality had a great weight in society. Now it apparently means nothing; Indonesia is pushing death penalty against people from countries that don't even have death penalty. The Brazilian president even asked them to stop and send the prisoner back to Brazil, but they refused. Do you agree with their action? Can a country really execute people from other countries for minor crimes such as drug dealing? |
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| Oh look, it's Lupadim again with yet another biased poll. I'm not falling for the bait this time. |
Gholy said: Where exactly is the bait?Oh look, it's Lupadim again with yet another biased poll. I'm not falling for the bait this time. |
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| yes |
| Im neutral coz they spared the life of mein contrimen All Hail PNOY |
| Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race |
| It's their law, I don't agree with it but ultimately they have the right to decide. |
Mugs_Smile said: but some sources says that bribing their court justices will null the penaltyIt's their law, I don't agree with it but ultimately they have the right to decide. |
| Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race |
 Was it this guy they finally killed? He was on the news every day why do we care so much about some drug dealer on the other side of the globe just because he was brazilian? The law was clear, he broke the law of the country he was in, he receives the country's punishment. It's legal to wield guns in the US, but if you do that on other countries you should expect the consequences of law of the country are you in. |
MomonoMay 2, 2015 8:44 PM
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Sonotoki said: Being a Brazilian citizen should mean something nowadays; He should have been submitted to a fair trial in Brazil. Our president kindly asked Indonesia to deport him, but Indonesia refused.It's legal to wield guns in the US, but if you do that on other countries you should expect the consequences of law of the country are you in. |
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| I wonder whether the Aus govt. will use this as an excuse to cut funding. If they do I'll be laughing pretty hard. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
Remv_quevav said: Mugs_Smile said: but some sources says that bribing their court justices will null the penaltyIt's their law, I don't agree with it but ultimately they have the right to decide. I heard something like that too. Was it the allegation where the judges asked for $130, 000 to minimize the sentence but then later asked for a higher price? Anyway, if we could find a way to bypass their laws its a good thing. |
| It's utterly mongoloid to execute people simply for trafficking drugs in the first place, but hey, it's their laws so obviously they have the right to do it, no question about that. |
| This is my country and rule have been laid for a long time ago. |
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MechaKiryu said: |
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Baman said: it's their laws so obviously they have the right to do it, no question about that. |
| I'm too weird to live but much too rare to die. |
| 1. These foreign Australian drug dealers are doing their nasty shit in another country, knowing and taking the risks 2. These drug dealers are selling drugs to Indonesian people 3. It's their laws, and Australians should respect it Yes, Indonesia has the right to execute them, just because the oh-so-forward Australia thinks saying "boo-boo you should be doing something better next time you poor misguided criminal-victims" and putting them in jail for 1-2 years is the right punishment doesn't mean it is. |
| Does a country have the right to punish criminals acting within the country's boundaries according to the country's law? |
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| *Ahem* Too all you saying it's their law and therefore they are in the right, you are slightly wrong. Indonesia has been part of the UN since 28 September 1950. This means that not only do they need to follow their own laws, They need to make sure their laws are following the UN conventions. Woo. |
| "I am the Bone of my Sword Steel is my Body and Fire is my Blood I have created over a Thousand Blades Unaware of Loss, Nor aware of Gain. Withstood Pain to create Weapons, Waiting for one’s Arrival I have no Regrets. This is the only Path My whole life was Unlimited Blade Works" |
Kyonin said: yes Does a country have the right to punish criminals acting within the country's boundaries according to the country's law? Indonesia has its rights too |
| Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race |
| if you go to a country then you abide by its laws or are punished according to them whether or not the penalty is good for the crime is another matter |
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| they just did execute them so they have the right or else the united nations will take action |
Kyonin said: blu-eyes said: *Ahem* Too all you saying it's their law and therefore they are in the right, you are slightly wrong. Indonesia has been part of the UN since 28 September 1950. This means that not only do they need to follow their own laws, They need to make sure their laws are following the UN conventions. Woo. Oh, I wasn't aware of that. So, by executing drug dealers who are citizens of other countries they're, in fact, violating the rules established by UN? Probably. I'd have to read more laws, and I hate laws. |
| "I am the Bone of my Sword Steel is my Body and Fire is my Blood I have created over a Thousand Blades Unaware of Loss, Nor aware of Gain. Withstood Pain to create Weapons, Waiting for one’s Arrival I have no Regrets. This is the only Path My whole life was Unlimited Blade Works" |
blu-eyes said: Kyonin said: Oh, I wasn't aware of that. So, by executing drug dealers who are citizens of other countries they're, in fact, violating the rules established by UN? Probably. I'd have to read more laws, and I hate laws. I've accidently deleted my previous post. Sorry. Tried to edit it, since I was doubting, uh, the structure of the question. Well, I've just learnt something new I guess. |
NanayaMay 3, 2015 5:20 AM
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Kyonin said: blu-eyes said: Probably. I'd have to read more laws, and I hate laws. I've accidently deleted my previous post. Sorry. Tried to edit it, since I was doubting, uh, the structure of the question. Well, I've just learnt something new I guess. If I come across what I was referring to, I'll share it. |
| "I am the Bone of my Sword Steel is my Body and Fire is my Blood I have created over a Thousand Blades Unaware of Loss, Nor aware of Gain. Withstood Pain to create Weapons, Waiting for one’s Arrival I have no Regrets. This is the only Path My whole life was Unlimited Blade Works" |
| huh??!! every country does, your inside a country u play by their own fuking rules, otherwise GTFO. easy peasy. |
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blu-eyes said: *Ahem* Too all you saying it's their law and therefore they are in the right, you are slightly wrong. Indonesia has been part of the UN since 28 September 1950. This means that not only do they need to follow their own laws, They need to make sure their laws are following the UN conventions. Woo. The UN is a joke. It's all about vague wordings that don't explicitly say anything and aren't actually enforced. The death penalty is 'only to be used for serious crimes' they say, but that means nothing. China are one of the few permanent members of the UN security council and they execute over 2,000 people a year for whatever the they feel like, hundreds who did less than smuggle drugs. Really it is just an excuse for the security council to make up things as they go along and pick on smaller countries. |
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Involtus said: blu-eyes said: *Ahem* Too all you saying it's their law and therefore they are in the right, you are slightly wrong. Indonesia has been part of the UN since 28 September 1950. This means that not only do they need to follow their own laws, They need to make sure their laws are following the UN conventions. Woo. The UN is a joke. It's all about vague wordings that don't explicitly say anything and aren't actually enforced. The death penalty is 'only to be used for serious crimes' they say, but that means nothing. China are one of the few permanent members of the UN security council and they execute over 2,000 people a year for whatever the they feel like, hundreds who did less than smuggle drugs. Really it is just an excuse for the security council to make up things as they go along and pick on smaller countries. Right... It totally doesn't have anything to do with governing things in order to prevent world war. Not at all. |
| "I am the Bone of my Sword Steel is my Body and Fire is my Blood I have created over a Thousand Blades Unaware of Loss, Nor aware of Gain. Withstood Pain to create Weapons, Waiting for one’s Arrival I have no Regrets. This is the only Path My whole life was Unlimited Blade Works" |
| Yes they have the right, but that doesn't mean I agree with their methods. |
Involtus said: bcoz China is a strong countryblu-eyes said: *Ahem* Too all you saying it's their law and therefore they are in the right, you are slightly wrong. Indonesia has been part of the UN since 28 September 1950. This means that not only do they need to follow their own laws, They need to make sure their laws are following the UN conventions. Woo. The UN is a joke. It's all about vague wordings that don't explicitly say anything and aren't actually enforced. The death penalty is 'only to be used for serious crimes' they say, but that means nothing. China are one of the few permanent members of the UN security council and they execute over 2,000 people a year for whatever the they feel like, hundreds who did less than smuggle drugs. Really it is just an excuse for the security council to make up things as they go along and pick on smaller countries. We cant even fuck them off from Spratlys eventhough we already sent a complaint in UNCLOS |
| Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race |
FGAU1912 said: lupadim said: Being a Brazilian citizen should mean something nowadays; He should have been submitted to a fair trial in Brazil. Our president kindly asked Indonesia to deport him, but Indonesia refused. lack of proper treaty Yes, they must have the legal framework for that. In diplomatic terms they must first signed up for extradition treaty between both party. But even if one was signed, it doesn't mean that it will automatically valid to use for all type of criminals. For heavy offenses in law has less likely to be extradited unless if their act is considered as transnational crime. Why do you think Snowden is still alive? |
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blu-eyes said: Right... It totally doesn't have anything to do with governing things in order to prevent world war. Not at all. It doesn't. It's more about controlling the wars that do take place to make sure that China and the USA don't get the short straws. It's about making powerful nations look good and violent invasions of vulnerable middle eastern nations look like good ideas. |
~ join the MAL suicide pact! ~ ~ ★☭★ ~ ~ embrace nuclear annihilation! ~ |
Involtus said: blu-eyes said: Right... It totally doesn't have anything to do with governing things in order to prevent world war. Not at all. It doesn't. It's more about controlling the wars that do take place to make sure that China and the USA don't get the short straws. It's about making powerful nations look good and violent invasions of vulnerable middle eastern nations look like good ideas. World wars World wars Not invasions. World wars. |
| "I am the Bone of my Sword Steel is my Body and Fire is my Blood I have created over a Thousand Blades Unaware of Loss, Nor aware of Gain. Withstood Pain to create Weapons, Waiting for one’s Arrival I have no Regrets. This is the only Path My whole life was Unlimited Blade Works" |
blu-eyes said: Involtus said: It doesn't. It's more about controlling the wars that do take place to make sure that China and the USA don't get the short straws. It's about making powerful nations look good and violent invasions of vulnerable middle eastern nations look like good ideas. World wars World wars Not invasions. World wars. You mean: how America will clear its debt? Ha, really, there are no world wars the UN have prevented which only the UN would have prevented. It's not about that at all, even if it's dressed up like it. |
~ join the MAL suicide pact! ~ ~ ★☭★ ~ ~ embrace nuclear annihilation! ~ |
Involtus said: blu-eyes said: World wars World wars Not invasions. World wars. You mean: how America will clear its debt? Ha, really, there are no world wars the UN have prevented which only the UN would have prevented. It's not about that at all, even if it's dressed up like it. To be honest, people like having security, even if they don't do much, they provide security for individuals, therefore improving wellbeing. |
| "I am the Bone of my Sword Steel is my Body and Fire is my Blood I have created over a Thousand Blades Unaware of Loss, Nor aware of Gain. Withstood Pain to create Weapons, Waiting for one’s Arrival I have no Regrets. This is the only Path My whole life was Unlimited Blade Works" |
| Well to be honest he's in Indonesia, selling drugs, they can do whatever they want with him. Who's going to stop them? |
| I've already exressed my thoughts on this. Oh boy, that's just too excessive, is the president on drugs (not indended) or something? Im really against the use of the Death Penalty since ending someone's life is one of the most barbaric thing ever and besides soldiers who are fighting for their lives no one should be given the power to do so (legally). I could only condone it (not necessarily agree) when it comes to cases of extreme cruelty like mass murder or rape/torture/slaughter of defenseless people like kids, pregnant women, seniors or patients. This is obviously light years from that. Yes, drugs is responsible for the deaths of several, but mostly indirectly with the blame not necessarily being only on the trafficker. I mean just like someone said, why not just do the same with cigarettes and the like? They are also drugs, cause addiction and are responsible for thousands of deaths every year. Quite frankly, I've never understood why some people are so blood thirsty, they even killed a mentally deficient person, lord as well as two people who had already spent ten years in prison. It's like they think that DP will solve their problems, it won't. I mean, we all know that the most glorious ages of humanity are those when executions of humans were about as abundant as those of chickens (like the Dark ages) or that the US is such peaceful place compared to Europe. Anyway, I will just conclude by saying this, anyone who agrees with this decision but then disagrees with stuff like the Sharia law is either retarded or an effing hypocrite. |
| Australia claimed extraterritorial jurisdiction in order to reclaim him, no treaties were agreed on this so their opinion fell to null. The embassies did ask for clemency but Indonesia refused. No country should dictate what another nation has to do unless some kind of agreement has been signed. |
| I've been here way too long... |
lupadim said: Gholy said: Where exactly is the bait?Oh look, it's Lupadim again with yet another biased poll. I'm not falling for the bait this time. On his back. |
DaejWo said: lupadim said: Where exactly is the bait? On his back. That's not bait. That's the hook. |
| "I am the Bone of my Sword Steel is my Body and Fire is my Blood I have created over a Thousand Blades Unaware of Loss, Nor aware of Gain. Withstood Pain to create Weapons, Waiting for one’s Arrival I have no Regrets. This is the only Path My whole life was Unlimited Blade Works" |
blu-eyes said: DaejWo said: On his back. That's not bait. That's the hook. Don't ruin it. |
| The thing is, these drug smugglers knew full well the risk they were taking, but they decided to do so anyway for a chance at quick money. Warnings of the death penalty are placed everywhere within the airport. Moreover, Australia's general reaction to this situation has been rather hypocritical. They support the execution of the Bali bombers, but not the drug smugglers, leaving one to think that they should be granted clemency because of their nationality. However, with that being said, I disagree with all of the options presented in your poll, especially the first, that all drug dealers must die. Capital punishment is ineffective at combating this issue, and from past experience in Singapore and elsewhere, although on the surface it seems like a great idea, in reality, it doesn't really work. |
| Yup when you enter their lands you have to abide by their laws and punishments. As it is said "you're not in Kansas anymore" just because you live in some first world country doesn't mean the rest of the world will treat you like a snowflake. Crime is serious business elsewhere not an excuse to live in luxury with xbox in your cell. Some places of the world a prison still resembles a prison. kevdawg said: However, with that being said, I disagree with all of the options presented in your poll, All Lupa's polls are skewered, everyone knows that. Involtus said: The UN is a joke. TheConquerer said: No country should dictate what another nation has to do unless some kind of agreement has been signed. I agree with both of you lupadim said: Two thousands years ago, if you were a Roman citizen and were to be executed outside the Roman empire, you could just say "I am Roman thus I require a fair trial" and they would take you to Rome. lol using Rome as an example of fair justice? did you forget just what kind of executions the Romans did? you may cherry pick an example of how the Romans treat people in one instance and ignore the fact that they had mass executions and threw slaves to the lions for sport. The example nation you use to support your argument was 100x worse than the nation you are arguing against. Using extreme force on an untold level to argue against possible excessive force.... "6,000 slaves were crucified along the 200-kilometer (120 mi) Via Appia from Rome to Capua" Indonesia is a pussy compared, had you walked appian way back then this is what you would have seen:  Mass execution and not my gunshot either by slow painful crucifixion and these people are your argument against the so called brutal unfair treatment of people in Indonesia? Saying nationalism doesn't mean anything like it did back then as an argument against executing people but using a whole nation that was in the business of executing people do you not see the irony? Even the argument falls down because had a roman said "im a roman I need a fair trial" in Britain he would have had his head smashed against a rock till dead, the ancient Britians didn't give a fuck. Like this Modern Britian when it comes to drug dealers. |
SpooksMay 3, 2015 6:38 AM
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Spooky_Love said: What's your point? Sure, the Romans were brutal, but so what?*snip romans are evil they are the anti-christ boo* What you are doing is tu quoque more or less. The topic of this thread is NOT if the Romans were merciful or not. Saying that the Roman Empire's law was ineffective is being extremely naive because today's law devolved from their law. But I understand why you're dodging the point and moving goalposts. After all, there is no excuse to what Indonesia did. |
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SmilinJ said: Criminals have families too.Aaaah who cares? It's not like the drug dealers will be missed. |
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