Homura's Character After Rebellion

MCsq2 said:
I wonder how sequels will treat that though...

Omniknight said:
I think they pushed the "evil" side a little but much

Omniknight said:
It all depends whether you believe her actions are based out of selflessness or selfishness.

Selfless = She simply wants to fulfill her wish, which was to protect Madoka. By being able to control the world and remove Incubator's influence, she manages to reach her wish.
Madoka did say during the third movie that she really does cherish the time with her friends and family and Homura intepreted this at face value: that she made a rash decision at the spur of the moment to sacrifice herself for the greater good when she really didn't. The last scene also shows that she understands that her actions may ultimately lead to future conflict, but she's willing to sacrifice even her friendship with Madoka to give her that fleeting dream of normal life.

Selfish: Yuri subtext that Homura wants Madoka for herself. I don't agree with this because if she really wanted Madoka for herself, why go all the way and recreate the world so that they can just start their friendship anew... Doesn't make sense to me.

I think they pushed the "evil" side a little but much, but ultimately I think Homura's heart is in the right place. And they managed to make her even more badass then before.

straggy said:
She got so much worse. She went from spending a whole TV series protecting the world and the girl she loves to... lol whatever that bullshit was.

hyperknees91 said:
Didn't we already have a character arc where it showed how an obsessive love for someone lead to their downfall...Sayaka anyone?

So basically what this series is trying to say is uh....love is a very bad thing, don't fall in love you will make stupid decisions.

My decision on Homura...she's obsessed and hasn't developed at all. She just remains obsessed. Not really any development on her part. So yeah I guess my opinion of her is a little worse because I kinda liked the fact that in the Madoka ending she had to accept living in a world without Madoka. It was tragic because she wasn't able to save Madoka, but she still has to live her life onwards regardless which made her respectable. Here it's just crazy stalker syndrome (If I'm doing it for their sake its ok) which is rather silly and overly negative.

hyperknees91 said:
Not saying she shouldn't have.

Granted I really shouldn't be so quick to judge as this movie is obviously leading into a second season. With an incomplete conclusion it's a little unfair to judge.

Perhaps she'll get her redemption/development eventually. Still I can't help but feel we are going in circles with her character at this point.

Also how are we going to develop the other characters? I mean they already kinda all had their...thing. Maybe they can spend time letting us get attached to them as people with the second season instead of focusing on insane shocking event after insane shocking event.

Zetsuei380 said:


I wouldn't really say she was trying to protect the world. More like she just wants to protect Madoka. She is ultimately fine with others dieing as long as Madoka is safe.

Lauriet said:
lol. Selfless.

Yeah. Homura is a perfect, amazing waifu that only wants the best for everybody, especially Madoka. Accepting Madoka's sacrifice like that and letting everyone else be happy? Man. Homura really is Jesus. This is sarcasm.

No matter how you look at it, Homuran or actually watching the fucking franchise unfold into a Homura centric ball of rubbish, what Homura essentially did was... not be happy with how things ended out, wanting things to be on her terms and making everyone miserable in the process. Including Madoka. I agree with that tumblr post I found of Homura. She really is kinda like an emotionally abusive stalker.

straggy said:


She was battling the Walpurgisnacht that was going to destroy the world all by herself. She was therefore protecting the world by doing that.

Zetsuei380 said:


Most likely even if she defeated Walpurgisnacht, if Madoka died/turned to a magical girl she would of went back in time despite saving the world. Saving the world is more of a secondary objective to her. If lots of people died but Madoka lived she wouldn't do anything to change that.

hyperknees91 said:
I do forget if there was any reason she specifically had to defeat the walpurgisnacht. I mean was it a possibility to just take Madoka and run?

I forget if those things can continue to rampage for an eternity though.

LyricalCrimson said:


You should not forget, that is very likely that WN was after Madoka... and I don't think they want to be haunted by an evil spirit who lays a way of destruction every place he passes through just to get to his target.

straggy said:
She got so much worse. She went from spending a whole TV series protecting the world and the girl she loves to... lol whatever that bullshit was.

straggy said:
A secondary objective is still an objective. She was still saving other people and the world, when she could've focused EVERYTHING on Madoka.

hyperknees91 said:
Well it's more just people view Homura wrong. They think she is a respectable person who is very strong, which isn't true at all. Basically they didn't read in between the lines enough with the events.

For example "Homura is so determined because she's willing to repeat the same events over and over again for the sake of Madoka". When they didn't question why she wouldn't do the same if any of the other girls die. Unlike Okabe who won't disregard what everyone else is feeling simply for the sake of Mayuri when he turns back time. Okabe and Homura do pretty much the same thing, but they are completely different at the same time.

I think the shipping mindset of Madoka x Homura might have gotten somewhat in the way of that.

BeatzMe said:



So how exactly is this any different from what she did in the third movie?

Protecting the world was definitely just a side effect that originated from her attempt to protect Madoka.

Again, in this movie, all she does is protect Madoka. She didn't harm ANYONE. Among others, even brought Sayaka back to school. She still maintains the law of cycles, which, according to your own logic, equals a secondary objective. She is protecting the world from witches.

The only bad thing she did was to alter people's memories and seal Madoka's powers. But her intentions were in no way evil. Compared to the series, where she didn't care if Sayaka or anyone else died as long as Madoka was save, this is nothing.

The whole "I'm a demon" statement is just making people think that she actually is purely evil now although it's more a metaphor for her methods and goals opposing those of Madoka. Her feelings and decisions are completely reasonable and human, considering everything she went through. She is just obsessed. That's what she was throughout the whole series as well.

I'm convinced that most people who claim that she acted out of character / inconsistent just didn't pay enough attention or didn't even bother to understand the events.

hyperknees91 said:
Well it's more just people view Homura wrong. They think she is a respectable person who is very strong, which isn't true at all. Basically they didn't read in between the lines enough with the events.

For example "Homura is so determined because she's willing to repeat the same events over and over again for the sake of Madoka". When they didn't question why she wouldn't do the same if any of the other girls die. Unlike Okabe who won't disregard what everyone else is feeling simply for the sake of Mayuri when he turns back time. Okabe and Homura do pretty much the same thing, but they are completely different at the same time.

I think the shipping mindset of Madoka x Homura might have gotten somewhat in the way of that.

straggy said:
Being a demon has nothing to do with that and I never mentioned it. :/

straggy said:
She harmed Madoka MENTALLY. People call Homura evil because she kidnapped Madoka, placed her in a noncon relationship and is now abusing her, like. That's something you can easily call evil. She'd never have done that in the first series either - it's literally going against what she wanted. It was utter bullshit and I'm convinced most people who claim that was in character/morally sound DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT ABUSE IS.

straggy said:
Being a demon has nothing to do with that and I never mentioned it. :/
She harmed Madoka MENTALLY. People call Homura evil because she kidnapped Madoka, placed her in a noncon relationship and is now abusing her, like. That's something you can easily call evil. She'd never have done that in the first series either - it's literally going against what she wanted. It was utter bullshit and I'm convinced most people who claim that was in character/morally sound DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT ABUSE IS.

Homura explains the reasons she doesn't go to such lengths for anyone else in the show. When she is talking with Madoka in episode 4 she states that magical girls give up everything for the sake of a single wish and fight for those wishes. Madoka was the only one Homura made a wish for. Then in episode 19 we see that she specifically promised Madoka that she would go back in time again and again to save her. She did not make that promise to anyone else.

In addition, there was no way to save Mami or Kyoko, because they had become magical girls long before and were always going to either die fighting or turn into witches. And Syaka would never listen to Homura in any timeline.

It wasn't that she was weak. It was that she recognized her limits. She DID try to keep Mami and Kyoko alive, and she DID try to prevent Syaka from contracting, but they were not the subject of her wish or of her promise, so going to the same lengths to save them as she did to save Madoka would have meant her losing hope of accomplishing anything and giving into despair and becoming a witch after just a few timelines.

There are 2 things that underlie the argument that Homura is 'strong.' The first is that she goes through years and years of futile struggle, reliving the same awful traumas again and again, and does not give into despair. Other magical girls may barely last a week before turning into witches. Homura had the fortitude to literally go on for eternity. The other thing is the comparison with Sayaka. Sayaka wanted Kyoske's gratitude, and one of her major sources of despair was that she felt she couldn't be close to him. Homura, on the other hand, was willing to have Madoka hate her if that's what it took to keep her safe. She continues to do that in the movie, deliberately becoming a witch to protect Madoka from Kyubei. Arguably her actions in becoming a 'demon' are the same thing.

Homura explains the reasons she doesn't go to such lengths for anyone else in the show. When she is talking with Madoka in episode 4 she states that magical girls give up everything for the sake of a single wish and fight for those wishes. Madoka was the only one Homura made a wish for. Then in episode 19 we see that she specifically promised Madoka that she would go back in time again and again to save her. She did not make that promise to anyone else.

In addition, there was no way to save Mami or Kyoko, because they had become magical girls long before and were always going to either die fighting or turn into witches. And Syaka would never listen to Homura in any timeline.

It wasn't that she was weak. It was that she recognized her limits. She DID try to keep Mami and Kyoko alive, and she DID try to prevent Syaka from contracting, but they were not the subject of her wish or of her promise, so going to the same lengths to save them as she did to save Madoka would have meant her losing hope of accomplishing anything and giving into despair and becoming a witch after just a few timelines.

There are 2 things that underlie the argument that Homura is 'strong.' The first is that she goes through years and years of futile struggle, reliving the same awful traumas again and again, and does not give into despair. Other magical girls may barely last a week before turning into witches. Homura had the fortitude to literally go on for eternity. The other thing is the comparison with Sayaka. Sayaka wanted Kyoske's gratitude, and one of her major sources of despair was that she felt she couldn't be close to him. Homura, on the other hand, was willing to have Madoka hate her if that's what it took to keep her safe. She continues to do that in the movie, deliberately becoming a witch to protect Madoka from Kyubei. Arguably her actions in becoming a 'demon' are the same thing.

Was there anything preventing Homura for going back in time to the point before Mami and Kyouko became witches? I forgot whatever rules she had on her time leaping (if she had any).

Regardless I don't think you get what I'm saying. Homura never went back in time for the sake of anyone but Madoka. Like Fierce said, she's not completely indifferent to the other girls, but they are certainly not a priority for her even though she spent time with them as well.

Homura being "strong" is kind of up for debate. Is she "strong" because she tries to change fate or is she just an obsessive person who won't face reality? Regardless of the impact it has on the universe and how helpful her actions are for kyubey, she would keep doing it anyway. Sure you can say she has a lot of devotion, but I don't think necessarily means she's a strong person. Sayaka's case is a little different. That girl basically gave up everything she wanted by becoming a magical girl, she was essentially tricked the most. Homura gave up nothing by becoming a magical girl, it just let her be with Madoka more. So in a sense, she got exactly what she wanted in comparison. Not only that but also it's shown by Mami that as long as magical girls have something to fight for, they won't give into despair. Sayaka had nothing to fight for, it was inevitable for her to get into despair. For some reason Kyouko never gives into despair either, perhaps because her life as a magical girl is still better than it was when she was a kid so she really doesn't care either way.

Actually upon thinking about it...how did Kyouko not give into despair? She was all alone and she had the worst past. I guess we'll just have to say she was stronger than the other girls probably (because even as confident as Mami seemed, it was apparent she would give into despair one day without Madoka's support).

I agree that her actions in this movie are no different then her previous actions. Hence why I said she lacks development. She basically is willing to do any insane thing for Madoka's sake. It's pretty much made her delusional by this point (not unexpected after so many time repeats).

hyperknees91 said:
So what? Is she just trying to help the other magical girls because they would help her defeat the walpurgisnacht and nothing else? That would make her pretty heartless if that was the case. If that was the case that would give her more of a reason to go back in time everytime she screwed up with one of them. It's been established that she can't beat the walpurgisnacht alone and she seems to always be fighting it alone or only with Madoka. I mean if her soul purpose is to prevent Madoka from contracting then it makes her pretty heartless as well because it means she doesn't care what the walpurgisnacht does to the town...there is no way for her to beat it without the other magical girls or without Madoka. I mean I think the peak of her being a person that denies reality is when she actually tries to fight it in the last episodes all by herself. In which she already knows, and has already experienced, that she cannot win. The most we can say is she is a stubborn fool at this point.

Obviously she is obsessive otherwise. Because everything she's doing is pointless if she's already accepted the fact that she can't save Sayaka or any of the other girls. So really, it's even more counterproductive not to go to the same lengths to save them as Madoka. I mean if it all goes with her wish of "helping Madoka not contract" then it's all good in the end either way. Hopefully she wouldn't think like that though.

Sayaka received literally nothing for her wish. Only despair that she ruined her life. Homura was at least given a chance to save her loved one (or so she thought). See Homura is probably the only magical girl who was given a reason to fight. The others only fight because for the sake of their own survival (until the point with Madoka with Mami). That's a pretty big difference. She has "hope" to hang onto, so I don't think there's ever any reason for her to give into despair. There is no hope for the other 3 girls, their lives were essentially destroyed by becoming magical girls. Especially Kyouko. Not only did her wish give her nothing but pain but actually hurt the person she used the wish for the most. Like said, I dunno how she didn't give into despair...it doesn't even make any sense when you think about it.

I also don't really buy that "no use for going to the same lengths of people she didn't use her wish for." If that was the case then Mami would have no reason to team up and support Madoka as her wish only dealt with her own survival. It would also mean that Kyouko would have no reason to support Sayaka as her wish had nothing to do with her either. I don't think their wishes are as much of an ultimatum like you think they are. They can still be human and make human decisions regardless of what their wish involved.

Funny enough Homura's biggest problem is...she has no social skills lawl. So she isn't able to convince the other magical girls of whats going on in any reasonable fashion.

sunofdarkchild said:
Mami wanted Madoka to contract because she did not know what Homura knew. And what happened the moment she stopped fighting out of fear of dying, since her wish was to live? She got her head bitten off. What happens when Kyoko tries to help Syaka? They both die. The whole series happens because Kyubei doesn't tell the girls the vast majority what being a magical girl actually entails, so they don't know. Right before she dies Kyoko tells Homura she was right all along.

Did you really just say that someone stuck in a timeloop of constantly repeating the same tasks tragedies has no reason to despair? That is one of the worst fates man can imagine for himself, which is why the myth of Sisyphus was created in the first place. And what's waiting for her if she manages to get out of the loop? Not a happy-ever-after with Madoka. It's either death or turning into a witch. And Homura knnows that too. She knows that every step she takes toward her goal is another step towards her end. And like Harry Potter with the horcruxes she presses on regardless of that knowledge.

As for the difference between Homura and Syaka. Syaka got her wish fulfilled to the letter. She wasn't prepared for the consequences, but she got exactly what she asked for. Homura never got her wish. She gave up everything for something she did not get and which seemed forever out of reach. Syaka had a reason to fight, to be the kind of hero she thought Mami was. She couldn't handle it being something other than heroic, just like Mami.

It is true that Homura has a lack of social skills, but that wouldn't help her convince the others that the creature that gave them their wishes and their powers first removed their souls and is also plotting to turn them into the very monsters they are fighting. These things are so horrible and clash with their preconceptions so much that they cannot be believed without first being seen.

hyperknees91 said:


For one Mami only got her head bitten off in that timeline. She was alive way after that event in all the other time lines. I have no idea why it went down like that in that time line. Probably because of Homura though (good job homura). I think that's pretty self serving logic that just because the other 2 started to serve someone else that their wish didn't involve their fate was to die (plus Kyoko doesn't die trying to save Sayaka in one timeline, Mami kills her). I wouldn't be surprised if Homura just said that to convince herself what she's doing is the right way, but in the end it doesn't really matter. If she tries to save Madoka (who her wish involves) she's gonna die regardless (or keep turning back time until she turns into a witch, whichever comes first). So that logic kinda falls apart right there.

Not saying being stuck in a timeloop doesn't suck. But she's kind of doing it to herself. She basically self screwed herself over. Regardless it doesn't take away from the fact that she still has hope. Like you said, the second she loses that hope, she would probably turn into a witch. Doesn't make her that much different then the other girls if that's the case (well outside of Kyouko who doesn't seem to care either way). And how was Homura's wish not even fulfilled? Her only wish was to go back to the time her and Madoka met and that's exactly what happened.

BTW does Homura even...have a plan at all? I mean her plan should be pretty much be to MAKE sure the other girls survive somehow. If she screws up she should go back. So why in the world would she not go back after Mami first got killed? I mean she pretty much lost the battle the second that happened.

To me it doesn't even seem like she does anything different across time lines unlike Okabe...I mean...how in the world did she think she could possibly win the second Mami died (considering she's the strongest one, it would be most preferrable to have her strength for the battle). Unless of course, her only goal is to keep Madoka from contracting and she doesn't care what the walpugisnacht does.

The problem is that Mami is too fragile and is prone to siding with Kyubey. Homura actually has it really hard as she has to prepare for Walpurgisnacht, prevent Madoka from Contracting and do both of those things while trying to give the least information to Kyubey which also is everywhere and always watching.

That alien is too dangerous the more information he has as we saw in the series.

Homura's struggle is well presented, and I felt even though what happened in Rebellion makes sense, she took a turn for the worst.

hyperknees91 said:


I'm aware it's a problem. I mean her task is pretty hard, but it still doesn't make sense how she could possibly think they could beat it without Mami. If the PSP game is relevant for anything (and since it was overlooked by urobutcher it probably is) the only way they beat it is with all 4 of them.

To me it doesn't even seem like she has a plan at all. She just kinda...does stuff and hopes it works.

ihusmal1234 said:
About the selfless part.

I just finished the movie and what I don't understand is, is the Madoka at the flower bed the essence of the real Madoka or just a fake Madoka that Homura created in her little labyrinth. If it is a fake it seems like she's pretty much just arguing with herself to justify what she was planning to do later.

And not just Madoka, what about Sayaka and all the other characters. Are they the real deal or fakes. I understand that at the end of the tv series all the other characters got brought back to life in the new world but Sayaka still ended up vanishing.

ElPysCongroo said:


The Madoka in the Homuras barrier is the real one who gets trapped when she initiates the Law of Cycle and gets her with her memories of being Madokami forgotten, Sayaka and Nagisa were brought with Madokami, to stop Kyubey's plan, think of them as Madokami's angels. Kyoko, Mami, Junko, Tomohisa, Tatsuya, Kazuko, Hitomi and Kyousuke are all real and were brought into Homuras's barrier by her familiars. The rest of the civilians are fake though. This all clearly shown in the film though.

ihusmal1234 said:


Thanks for clearing that up. So in the new universe Madokami comes to cleanse the magi girls before turning into witches and they get carried over to Madoheaven. Now I see how Nagisa was there and what that last scene meant in the tv series with Sayaka and Madoka at Kyouske's performance.

One last thing though, how did Madoka get trapped in the first place? Was it the incubator's work or Homura? After she figured everything out, didn't Homura decide to turn into a witch inside the isolation field to prevent MadoKami of ever reaching her so the incubators can't have the opprtunity of trying to control her? What about the real Madoka that was already in Homura's barrier?