To Your Eternity
| So I dont wanna sound nitpicky but why did they change the english title and not just take the direct translation? "To Your Eternity" is a pretty good title but the japanese title "To You, The Immortal" just sounds kinda more philosophical (or something) and its definetly more fitting for the story. |
| Eh, both sound cool enough. At least it's not appalling like jujutsu kaisen's "sorcery fight". yuck. |
 ManWild |
| If you interpret the "your" in the title as it is used in the phrase "your highness" or "your excellence", then the title is a direct translation from the Japanese. |
| yeah honestly I’d prefer that, good observation |
Bilacomy said: Totally agree, japanese sound much cooler But calm down cause it could be worse, in portuguese they changed to "An Imortal Life" (Uma Vida Imortal) and I really didn't like it, took off all the philosophical sounding of the title :( Chocada, mataram o nome do anime |
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Sinom said: If you interpret the "your" in the title as it is used in the phrase "your highness" or "your excellence", then the title is a direct translation from the Japanese. This is not true.. |
--l-- said: Sinom said: If you interpret the "your" in the title as it is used in the phrase "your highness" or "your excellence", then the title is a direct translation from the Japanese. This is not true.. It is though. Direct translation would pretty much be "to you who is eternal" while "your excellence" is a phase supposed to mean "the you who is excellent", so "to your excelence" is literally "to the you who is excellent" while "to your eternity" is "to the you who is eternal". So it's a completely valid translation in that sense. |
Sinom said: It is though. Direct translation would pretty much be "to you who is eternal" while "your excellence" is a phase supposed to mean "the you who is excellent", so "to your excelence" is literally "to the you who is excellent" while "to your eternity" is "to the you who is eternal". So it's a completely valid translation in that sense. That doesn't make any sense at all. Post what you're saying in kanji or hiragana at least. You're just making stuff up |
--l-- said: Sinom said: It is though. Direct translation would pretty much be "to you who is eternal" while "your excellence" is a phase supposed to mean "the you who is excellent", so "to your excelence" is literally "to the you who is excellent" while "to your eternity" is "to the you who is eternal". So it's a completely valid translation in that sense. That doesn't make any sense at all. Post what you're saying in kanji or hiragana at least. You're just making stuff up Ok then. "不滅のあなたへ" is the title of this manga. "不滅" means "immortal". "の" is a particle indicating the word before it describes the word after it. "あなた" means "you". "へ" which is usually pronounce "he", is in this case pronounced "e", since it is a particle indicating direction or more specifically to this case adressal. So in total the name is an addressal to a person referred to as you which is described to be eternal. If you want a translation then something like "to the you that is eternal" or "to the eternal you" would be correct translations. In the last comment I described how in English the two phrases "to the you that is eternal" and "to your eternity" can have exactly the same meaning. I didn't provide any kana or kanji (or かな and 漢字 if you want to be pedantic about it) because I though everyone here in the thread already was on board with "to the eternal you" and "to the you that is eternal" being a correct translation for 不滅のあなたへ. Emphasis on "a", because translation isn't addition which always only has one correct solution. There are pretty much always multiple correct translations for every single phrase and often even for single words. In those previous comments I showed how both have the same meaning in English, therefore if that shared meaning is a correct translation for the original Japanese, so are both phrases. |
SinomMay 4, 2021 10:58 AM
Sinom said: --l-- said: That doesn't make any sense at all. Post what you're saying in kanji or hiragana at least. You're just making stuff up Ok then. "不滅のあなたへ" is the title of this manga. "不滅" means "immortal". "の" is a particle indicating the word before it describes the word after it. "あなた" means "you". "へ" which is usually pronounce "he", is in this case pronounced "e", since it is a particle indicating direction or more specifically to this case adressal. So in total the name is an addressal to a person referred to as you which is described to be eternal. If you want a translation then something like "to the you that is eternal" or "to the eternal you" would be correct translations. In the last comment I described how in English the two phrases "to the you that is eternal" and "to your eternity" can have exactly the same meaning. I didn't provide any kana or kanji (or かな and 漢字 if you want to be pedantic about it) because I though everyone here in the thread already was on board with "to the eternal you" and "to the you that is eternal" being a correct translation for 不滅のあなたへ. Emphasis on "a", because translation isn't addition which always only has one correct solution. There are pretty much always multiple correct translations for every single phrase and often even for single words. In those previous comments I showed how both have the same meaning in English, therefore if that shared meaning is a correct translation for the original Japanese, so are both phrases. Where are you getting "your excellence" from? To call both translations direct ones of the original Japanese title would be a stretch. I guess you can say that someone who is eternal has an eternity, therefore "to you the eternal" would align with "to your eternity", but even in that case "to your eternity" is not a word-for-word literal translation of the original Japanese title. It makes sense as a translation but it's not as direct as "to you the eternal". 不滅(Fumetsu) literally means immortal. It can't be defined as the concept of "immortality" or "eternity", so the "to your eternal" title isn't a direct translation. |
--l-- said: Sinom said: Ok then. "不滅のあなたへ" is the title of this manga. "不滅" means "immortal". "の" is a particle indicating the word before it describes the word after it. "あなた" means "you". "へ" which is usually pronounce "he", is in this case pronounced "e", since it is a particle indicating direction or more specifically to this case adressal. So in total the name is an addressal to a person referred to as you which is described to be eternal. If you want a translation then something like "to the you that is eternal" or "to the eternal you" would be correct translations. In the last comment I described how in English the two phrases "to the you that is eternal" and "to your eternity" can have exactly the same meaning. I didn't provide any kana or kanji (or かな and 漢字 if you want to be pedantic about it) because I though everyone here in the thread already was on board with "to the eternal you" and "to the you that is eternal" being a correct translation for 不滅のあなたへ. Emphasis on "a", because translation isn't addition which always only has one correct solution. There are pretty much always multiple correct translations for every single phrase and often even for single words. In those previous comments I showed how both have the same meaning in English, therefore if that shared meaning is a correct translation for the original Japanese, so are both phrases. Where are you getting "your excellence" from? To call both translations direct ones of the original Japanese title would be a stretch. I guess you can say that someone who is eternal has an eternity, therefore "to you the eternal" would align with "to your eternity", but even in that case "to your eternity" is not a word-for-word literal translation of the original Japanese title. It makes sense as a translation but it's not as direct as "to you the eternal". I'm getting "your excelence" from "your eternity" because they are likely meant to be the same grammatical construct, so I used "your excelence", something probably everyone knows, as an example of that construct. And yes it isn't a direct translation, but it is a correct translation. And you don't want direct translations. Direct translations most of the time (like in "to the eternal you") often sound stupid. "To you the eternal" also isn't a direct translation, since in that "eternal" is a noun as a being, while in the Japanese it's pretty much an adjectiv (it's actually more like an adjectival noun since Japanese doesn't technically have adjectives which is one of the many things that makes Japanese simply impossible to directly translate into English). Translation should sound good in the language it was translated to and be accurate, not be direct. |
Sinom said: --l-- said: Where are you getting "your excellence" from? To call both translations direct ones of the original Japanese title would be a stretch. I guess you can say that someone who is eternal has an eternity, therefore "to you the eternal" would align with "to your eternity", but even in that case "to your eternity" is not a word-for-word literal translation of the original Japanese title. It makes sense as a translation but it's not as direct as "to you the eternal". I'm getting "your excelence" from "your eternity" because they are likely meant to be the same grammatical construct, so I used "your excelence", something probably everyone knows, as an example of that construct. And yes it isn't a direct translation, but it is a correct translation. And you don't want direct translations. Direct translations most of the time (like in "to the eternal you") often sound stupid. "To you the eternal" also isn't a direct translation, since in that "eternal" is a noun as a being, while in the Japanese it's pretty much an adjectiv (it's actually more like an adjectival noun since Japanese doesn't technically have adjectives which is one of the many things that makes Japanese simply impossible to directly translate into English). Translation should sound good in the language it was translated to and be accurate, not be direct. But you original point was that it is a direct translation...? I said that was wrong and now you're admitting it wasn't. |
--l-- said: But you original point was that it is a direct translation...? I said that was wrong and now you're admitting it wasn't. Yeah I used "direct translation" as "correct translation" in that comment because most of the time that is what people mean when they say "direct translation". Often an actually direct translation that is in correct english does not exist. Even all the things in previous comments I said where direct translations, depending on how strict you are aren't actually direct translation. An actual completely strictly direct translation would probably be "[second person singular pronoun with a bunch of possible connotations] [described as] [concept of eternity] [phrase is an adressal]" because there are no English words that have the exact same uses and possible meanings as the Japanese do. What is "direct" is very subjective. |
Sinom said: --l-- said: But you original point was that it is a direct translation...? I said that was wrong and now you're admitting it wasn't. Yeah I used "direct translation" as "correct translation" in that comment because most of the time that is what people mean when they say "direct translation". Often an actually direct translation that is in correct english does not exist. Even all the things in previous comments I said where direct translations, depending on how strict you are aren't actually direct translation. An actual completely strictly direct translation would probably be "[second person singular pronoun with a bunch of possible connotations] [described as] [concept of eternity] [phrase is an adressal]" because there are no English words that have the exact same uses and possible meanings as the Japanese do. What is "direct" is very subjective. No, you're just overcomplicating it. A direct translation is one where the words are translated into their exact meaning from one language to another. "To You, the Immortal" is as direct as it gets when translating "Fumetsu no Anata e". |
Jaslen said: Does one actually say "your eternity" to simply mean "the one who is eternal"? Would it not be used reventially as in "Your Excellency"? "Anata" is not used reverentially in Japanese though. On the contrary, it should be avoided when addressing someone of a higher status than yourself. I just watched Fushi pee lol So maybe it's hard to see him/it as "Your Eternity" just yet. lol I feel like it is the narrator addressing Fushi in the title. "To you, the Immortal" is a much more literal translation, to me. And I like it better. To Your Eternity sounds more like a toast lol So yeah, it's up to the individual how one feels about the title. Regardless, I'm really enjoying the anime. Yeah I know. Nowadays anata is really rude, but in history and still in some creative writing it was actually an extremely polite way of indirectly addressing someone. Similar to how kisama nowadays is pretty much an insult while a few centuries ago it was extremely humble and polite. And yeah as the viewer we most likely won't be thinking of someone we see in those kinds of situations as anything majestic or holy. But (minor to medium spoiler) so that kind of addressal would make sense. |
--l-- said: No, you're just overcomplicating it. A direct translation is one where the words are translated into their exact meaning from one language to another. "To You, the Immortal" is as direct as it gets when translating "Fumetsu no Anata e". That already isn't the most technically direct natural translation into English. "To the immortal you" is purely objectively a more direct translation as in the Japanese immortal is used descriptively and not as an adressal, which "the immortal" would be. Simply because something was the first and most widely used fan translation doesn't man it's the most correct and direct But as I already said before. I really don't care which is more "technically direct". Both are correct translations, and "To your eternity" at least to me and probably also to the translators simply sounds better, so they went with that. |
SinomMay 4, 2021 1:50 PM
Sinom said: --l-- said: No, you're just overcomplicating it. A direct translation is one where the words are translated into their exact meaning from one language to another. "To You, the Immortal" is as direct as it gets when translating "Fumetsu no Anata e". That already isn't the most technically direct natural translation into English. "To the immortal you" is purely objectively a more direct translation as in the Japanese immortal is used descriptively and not as an adressal, which "the immortal" would be. Simply because something was the first and most widely used fan translation doesn't man it's the most correct and direct But as I already said before. I really don't care which is more "technically direct". Both are correct translations, and "To your eternity" at least to me and probably also to the translators simply sounds better, so they went with that. "To you the immortal" is as direct as it gets in the sense that all the words from the original title are translated and put together in a way to carry their original meaning. Their roles might be different but their meaning is translated. The whole point of this thread was to discuss how the title they went with lacks this directness, a point to which you replied that the directness is still there. I disagreed and now we're moving on to a point about the spectrum of meanings "direct" could take on. You at first called the title they went with in English a literal translation, but although it might fit into your definition of "direct, it doesn't in the most technical sense. |
| That’s a good observation, that would sound very fitting ( in my opinion) |
--l-- said: "To you the immortal" is as direct as it gets in the sense that all the words from the original title are translated and put together in a way to carry their original meaning. Their roles might be different but their meaning is translated. The whole point of this thread was to discuss how the title they went with lacks this directness, a point to which you replied that the directness is still there. I disagreed and now we're moving on to a point about the spectrum of meanings "direct" could take on. You at first called the title they went with in English a literal translation, but although it might fit into your definition of "direct, it doesn't in the most technical sense. Yeah by the most technical definition of direct, "to your eternity" is not a direct translation. By that same definition "to the immortal you" is a more direct translation than "to you the immortal". Also if you're saying "all the words from the original are translated and put together in a way to carry their original meaning" means something is a direct translation, then "to your eternity" also is a direct translation. へ -> to あなた -> your 不滅 -> eternity の is a particle and doesn't get translated into a word, but a relation that is kept in the translation, so it's also translated. And as I explained in my first post the end result has the same meaning. |
| Weebs acting like they understand Japanese lmao. This is cringe To your eternity is correct and is direct as it gets. |
-Dizzy-May 4, 2021 5:41 PM
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Sinom said: --l-- said: "To you the immortal" is as direct as it gets in the sense that all the words from the original title are translated and put together in a way to carry their original meaning. Their roles might be different but their meaning is translated. The whole point of this thread was to discuss how the title they went with lacks this directness, a point to which you replied that the directness is still there. I disagreed and now we're moving on to a point about the spectrum of meanings "direct" could take on. You at first called the title they went with in English a literal translation, but although it might fit into your definition of "direct, it doesn't in the most technical sense. Yeah by the most technical definition of direct, "to your eternity" is not a direct translation. By that same definition "to the immortal you" is a more direct translation than "to you the immortal". Also if you're saying "all the words from the original are translated and put together in a way to carry their original meaning" means something is a direct translation, then "to your eternity" also is a direct translation. へ -> to あなた -> your 不滅 -> eternity の is a particle and doesn't get translated into a word, but a relation that is kept in the translation, so it's also translated. And as I explained in my first post the end result has the same meaning. Wrong. Fumetsu (不滅) means immortal, not eternity. It doesn't refer to the concept of immortality as a noun but immortal as an adjective. And anata (あなた) strictly means "you" not "your". It can mean "your" when の is attached to it but the の is attached to the Fumetsu (不滅) instead. So in the case of the original title there is no usage of the word "your" which makes "to your eternity" nondirect. |
--l-- said: Wrong. Fumetsu (不滅) means immortal, not eternity. It doesn't refer to the concept of immortality as a noun but immortal as an adjective. And anata (あなた) strictly means "you" not "your". It can mean "your" when の is attached to it but the の is attached to the Fumetsu (不滅) instead. So in the case of the original title there is no usage of the word "your" which makes "to your eternity" nondirect. Also wrong. Fumetsu does not mean immortal. Immortal is just one of the most common ways to translate it. If you look at a J->J dictionary you will see it simply means to not 滅びる. If you now look at a J->j dictionary for that, you can see it can mean specific things like falling to ruin or dying, but can also mean broader things like being stopped or ending. So in its broadest meaning it is "the matter of not ending" which if we want to say that in more natural English, there are quite a few useful words for, depending on how specific you want to be. One of those words is of course "immortal", another would be "unbreakable", and another would be "enternal" or "eternity. Also. It is a noun. As I already said before, Japanese strictly speaking doesn't really have adjectives, only nouns and predicates whose closest English translations are adjectives when used in specific grammatical constructs. And 不滅 is a noun. And in the phrase "your eternity" if interpreter the same as "your holiness" then the "eternity" just like the "holiness" is a description of the "you", which is similar in function to adjectives. Also. Japanese does not have the concept of grammatical case, therefore "you" and "your" are the same word. Also going with the phrase I had in my comment then the "your" in the English title is not the standard possessive case. It is a special English phrase like in "this letter is addressed to your holiness". This "your" is used differently than the your in "your dog" would be used. As I already said before. An actual literal word for word translation is impossible for most Japanese sentences. Like there was a whole facade to the dialogue in episode 2 of this show about what it means to be grown up that was completely cut from the translation, simply because it isn't easily translatable without using authors notes. You can't just go "jisho.org has this word as a translation for that japanese, therefore it should always be translated as that". Jisho and all J->E (or any other language to language) dictionaries won't have the full meaning of a word. They will only have what is pretty much "the most common translations" for that word. That's also the reason for why words like "かける" have like two dozen possible meanings on jisho. In Japanese most of them if not all of them are the same meaning, it's just that English is a different language, and uses words differently. Translation is not cookie cutter word replacement with some sprinkle of grammar on top. Otherwise machine translators would be more than perfect by now. Also. If anything you reply is already covered by this or a previous post, or trivially similar to something covered in previous posts, then I won't reply anymore, since this already took way too much of my time, and this seems to be going nowhere, fast. |
SinomMay 4, 2021 6:09 PM
Sinom said: --l-- said: Wrong. Fumetsu (不滅) means immortal, not eternity. It doesn't refer to the concept of immortality as a noun but immortal as an adjective. And anata (あなた) strictly means "you" not "your". It can mean "your" when の is attached to it but the の is attached to the Fumetsu (不滅) instead. So in the case of the original title there is no usage of the word "your" which makes "to your eternity" nondirect. Also wrong. Fumetsu does not mean immortal. Immortal is just one of the most common ways to translate it. If you look at a J->J dictionary you will see it simply means to not 滅びる. If you now look at a J->j dictionary for that, you can see it can mean specific things like falling to ruin or dying, but can also mean broader things like being stopped or ending. So in its broadest meaning it is "the matter of not ending" which if we want to say that in more natural English, there are quite a few useful words for, depending on how specific you want to be. One of those words is of course "immortal", another would be "unbreakable", and another would be "enternal" or "eternity. Also. It is a noun. As I already said before, Japanese strictly speaking doesn't really have adjectives, only nouns and predicates whose closest English translations are adjectives when used in specific grammatical constructs. And 不滅 is a noun. And in the phrase "your eternity" if interpreter the same as "your holiness" then the "eternity" just like the "holiness" is a description of the "you", which is similar in function to adjectives. Also. Japanese does not have the concept of grammatical case, therefore "you" and "your" are the same word. Also going with the phrase I had in my comment then the "your" in the English title is not the standard possessive case. It is a special English phrase like in "this letter is addressed to your holiness". This "your" is used differently than the your in "your dog" would be used. As I already said before. An actual literal word for word translation is impossible for most Japanese sentences. Like there was a whole facade to the dialogue in episode 2 of this show about what it means to be grown up that was completely cut from the translation, simply because it isn't easily translatable without using authors notes. You can't just go "jisho.org has this word as a translation for that japanese, therefore it should always be translated as that". Jisho and all J->E (or any other language to language) dictionaries won't have the full meaning of a word. They will only have what is pretty much "the most common translations" for that word. That's also the reason for why words like "かける" have like two dozen possible meanings on jisho. In Japanese most of them if not all of them are the same meaning, it's just that English is a different language, and uses words differently. Translation is not cookie cutter word replacement with some sprinkle of grammar on top. Otherwise machine translators would be more than perfect by now. Also. If anything you reply is already covered by this or a previous post, or trivially similar to something covered in previous posts, then I won't reply anymore, since this already took way too much of my time, and this seems to be going nowhere, fast. I think we've hit a dead end now that you've said that you and your are the same word in Japanese. There is a clear differentiation between あなた and あなたの in JP. Even in the case of the non-possessive "your", like "your highness", that あなた is not the one being used in the JP title. So to carry over that meaning for the word from the JP title into the EN translation makes it stray farther from the original intent and by extension from what we can call a direct translation. |
--l-- said: I think we've hit a dead end now that you've said that you and your are the same word in Japanese. There is a clear differentiation between あなた and あなたの in JP. Even in the case of the non-possessive "your", like "your highness", that あなた is not the one being used in the JP title. So to carry over that meaning for the word from the JP title into the EN translation makes it stray farther from the original intent and by extension from what we can call a direct translation. In this case "your" is a polite adressal. In Japanese あなた (isn't anymore in modern speech but still is in creative writing and was in history) a polite adressal. I've said this like three times already. You just don't want to understand what I'm saying. |
SinomMay 5, 2021 2:28 AM
Sinom said: --l-- said: I think we've hit a dead end now that you've said that you and your are the same word in Japanese. There is a clear differentiation between あなた and あなたの in JP. Even in the case of the non-possessive "your", like "your highness", that あなた is not the one being used in the JP title. So to carry over that meaning for the word from the JP title into the EN translation makes it stray farther from the original intent and by extension from what we can call a direct translation. In this case "your" is a polite adressal. In Japanese あなた (isn't anymore in modern speech but still is in creative writing and was in history) a polite adressal. I've said this like three times already. You just don't want to understand what I'm saying. Bye. I'm off. And I'm saying that polite adressal of あなた isn't being used in the JP title. So to carry it over to the EN translation makes no sense as a direct translation. Enjoy your evening. |
--l-- said: In this case "your" is a polite adressal. In Japanese あなた (isn't anymore in modern speech but still is in creative writing and was in history) a polite adressal. I've said this like three times already. You just don't want to understand what I'm saying. Bye. I'm off. And I'm saying that polite adressal of あなた isn't being used in the JP title. So to carry it over to the EN translation makes no sense as a direct translation. Enjoy your evening. [/quote] No anata IS a polite adressal. No specific form because as I already said at least twice before. JAPANESE DOES NOT HAVE FORMS OR CASES. In modern real life Japanese anata IS a rude addessal and in ancient and creative writing (especially taking place in ancient times, which this is) anata IS a polite adressal. |
SinomMay 5, 2021 2:18 AM
Sinom said: --l-- said: In this case "your" is a polite adressal. In Japanese あなた (isn't anymore in modern speech but still is in creative writing and was in history) a polite adressal. I've said this like three times already. You just don't want to understand what I'm saying. Bye. I'm off. And I'm saying that polite adressal of あなた isn't being used in the JP title. So to carry it over to the EN translation makes no sense as a direct translation. Enjoy your evening. {/quote] No anata IS a polite adressal. No specific form because as I already said at least twice before. JAPANESE DOES NOT HAVE FORMS OR CASES. In modern real life jaoabese anata IS a rude addessal and in ancient and creative writing (especially taking place in ancient times, which this is) anata IS a polite adressal. It's not a polite adressal because the usage of the word in the JP title doesn't indicate such. The あなた in the title refers to a person "you" in second person that's being described as 不滅. It's not being used to refer to someone in a titular manner like "your _____". |
--l-- said: It's not a polite adressal because the usage of the word in the JP title doesn't indicate such. The あなた in the title refers to a person "you" in second person that's being described as 不滅. It's not being used to refer to someone in a titular manner like "your _____". "Your" in the title refers to a person. It's a humble/polite second person pronoun that's being described as "eternal". "あなた" in the title refers to a person. It's a humble/polite second person pronoun that's being described as "不滅". spot the difference. there is none. as I already said a million times. あなた ≠ you. あなた = second person pronoun with a ton of connotations depending on context. |
SinomMay 5, 2021 2:38 AM
Sinom said: --l-- said: It's not a polite adressal because the usage of the word in the JP title doesn't indicate such. The あなた in the title refers to a person "you" in second person that's being described as 不滅. It's not being used to refer to someone in a titular manner like "your _____". "Your" in the title refers to a person. It's a humble/polite second person pronoun that's being described as "eternal". "あなた" in the title refers to a person. It's a humble/polite second person pronoun that's being described as "不滅". spot the difference. there is none. as I already said a million times. あなた ≠ you. あなた = second person pronoun with a ton of connotations depending on context. Here, I’ll give you the difference. The SUBJECT in “To Your Eternity” is “Eternity”, while the SUBJECT in “不滅のあなたへ” is “あなた”, meaning that “your” and “あなた” are misaligned between the translations, so they are NOT the same word. |
| Damn that escalated quite quickly lol. |
| @Sinom is goddamn right. To put it into context, the "Your Eternity" in the title is being addressed the exact same way as I'm going to refer to the other guy from now on: "Your Stupidity". |
あなたは誰？ |
backdoornight said: @Sinom is goddamn right. To put it into context, the "Your Eternity" in the title is being addressed the exact same way as I'm going to refer to the other guy from now on: "Your Stupidity". You see how you used an adjective following "your"? That's how it's supposed to go. You can't just take a phrase like "Your excellence" and do a 1-to-1 transition into "Your (anything)". The word after "Your" has to be an adjective. While Fumetsu in JP can be an adjective, its english translation counterpart, "Eternity" can only ever be a noun. Which is why "Your eternity" can't be spun to mean "To you, the eternal". There's no equivalency between the two phrases b/c it goes against linguistic conventions. |
--l-- said: Um... "stupidity" isn't really an adjective, my dude. That would be just "stupid". Don't see much merit in analyzing every nuance of the Japanese language now since the true point of contention here is apparently the English translation, but a quick search revealed to me that "不滅" can both be I) a noun (meaning "immortality"), or II) a na-type adjectival noun, that is, a noun that can be specifically converted into an adjective by appending "な" to it (it means "immortal" in this case). This concept seems to be exclusive to the Japanese language, so the best any translators can possibly do is to adapt the title to fit the intricacies of their language. I'd say they've done a darn good job, since "Your Eternity" (which can technically mean "the 2nd grammatical person's eternity" or "a made-up honorific for a being who's eternal") preserves the ambiguity also present in "fumetsu" (either refers to "an immortal" or just "Immortality personified").You see how you used an adjective following "your"? That's how it's supposed to go. You can't just take a phrase like "Your excellence" and do a 1-to-1 transition into "Your (anything)". The word after "Your" has to be an adjective. While Fumetsu in JP can be an adjective, its english translation counterpart, "Eternity" can only ever be a noun. Which is why "Your eternity" can't be spun to mean "To you, the eternal". There's no equivalency between the two phrases b/c it goes against linguistic conventions. Last of all, I believe "linguistic conventions" are more flexible in this case because the title is supposed to be a pun and all. In my native language, we have the amusing cliché "Vossa Excrescência" ("Your Excrescence"), which is a deeply contemptuous way of referring to a certain "Vossa Excelência" ("Your Excellency"), such as a corrupt judge. It's a made-up title, yeah, but it gets the point across. You just need to be familiar with how honorific styles work. |
あなたは誰？ |
backdoornight said: --l-- said: Um... "stupidity" isn't really an adjective, my dude. That would be just "stupid". Don't see much merit in analyzing every nuance of the Japanese language now since the true point of contention here is apparently the English translation, but a quick search revealed to me that "不滅" can both be I) a noun (meaning "immortality"), or II) a na-type adjectival noun, that is, a noun that can be specifically converted into an adjective by appending "な" to it (it means "immortal" in this case). This concept seems to be exclusive to the Japanese language, so the best any translators can possibly do is to adapt the title to fit the intricacies of their language. I'd say they've done a darn good job, since "Your Eternity" (which can technically mean "the 2nd grammatical person's eternity" or "a made-up honorific for a being who's eternal") preserves the ambiguity also present in "fumetsu" (either refers to "an immortal" or just "Immortality personified").You see how you used an adjective following "your"? That's how it's supposed to go. You can't just take a phrase like "Your excellence" and do a 1-to-1 transition into "Your (anything)". The word after "Your" has to be an adjective. While Fumetsu in JP can be an adjective, its english translation counterpart, "Eternity" can only ever be a noun. Which is why "Your eternity" can't be spun to mean "To you, the eternal". There's no equivalency between the two phrases b/c it goes against linguistic conventions. Last of all, I believe "linguistic conventions" are more flexible in this case because the title is supposed to be a pun and all. In my native language, we have the amusing cliché "Vossa Excrescência" ("Your Excrescence"), which is a deeply contemptuous way of referring to a certain "Vossa Excelência" ("Your Excellency"), such as a corrupt judge. It's a made-up title, yeah, but it gets the point across. You just need to be familiar with how honorific styles work. I guess in my mind I was hung up on the idea that if something becomes “you the blank” and you have to then turn it into “your blankity” then the fact that you have to take that next step makes it a non direct translation, which was what this argument started over. But if I consider that both phrases are interchangeable then it doesn’t really matter. I will say though, the og title doesn’t make usage of the na-adjective concept so there wasn’t much ambiguity that needed to be preserved |
--l--May 11, 2021 7:29 AM
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