ShinsoPriest said: Same Japanese VN's, but the Noble Phantasms have english subs.Does the Chinese version have its own Chinese voices? |
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| I forgot how insufferable the drop rates are... |
My Queens  |
-Mahesvara said: I forgot how insufferable the drop rates are... Farming for even just dragon fangs is terrible. I forget how time and AP I'm spending to get those last 5 mats that are just considered "silver." I'm really hating myself for being lazy with events where mats were given out like the plague. |
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FalK-ON said: Yeah, now that we are in event downtime since we're in the end game stage for story content, people are going to be running low on mats with ascending servants and upgrading skills and will have to be introduced back to getting mats the old fashioned way.-Mahesvara said: I forgot how insufferable the drop rates are... Farming for even just dragon fangs is terrible. I forget how time and AP I'm spending to get those last 5 mats that are just considered "silver." I'm really hating myself for being lazy with events where mats were given out like the plague. Lucky enough for me, the only servant I really care about leveling and ascending right now is Caster Gil and I only need 8 pages(well 3 now), so hopefully I will be done with this grind by tomorrow. One bright side to this farming is getting bond levels up, which will apparently be pivotal come the Solomon raid. |
My Queens |
FalK-ON said: -Mahesvara said: I forgot how insufferable the drop rates are... Farming for even just dragon fangs is terrible. I forget how time and AP I'm spending to get those last 5 mats that are just considered "silver." I'm really hating myself for being lazy with events where mats were given out like the plague. Am too also slowly losing my mind to farming the giant boar. Kill it probably 60+ times for 10 gallstones (need 20 more). Kinda hesitant to use them on Quetz incase there's new Servants I want to ascend. |
The Summer event was in August. Machi Asobi was in October. MightyM16 said: You guys, I'm disappointed. Gilgamesh becoming a wise king after Enkidu's death was *always* part of his legend, of the epic of Gilgamesh. What Andersen says about him briniging his own city to chaos in CCC still stands though, his Archer self truly represents his completely immature douchebag self after all, Enkidu's whole reason to exist was because Uruk's people were praying to the gods asking for something to be done to their king because he was completely insufferable. After Enkidu's death, Gilgamesh gets crazy and abandoned his kingdom in order to earch for immortality, when he cames back after going through character development, his kingdom is in shambles, then he begins to rebuild it.. Seriously, try reading some history before claiming that Gil's F/SN self is "retconned" or that Nasu changed Gil based on nothing or something like that. Btw @Frostbite, Gil was an "arrogant pricks with motives" even in F/SN, F/Z literary changed nothing about him. The epic is not in any way relevant to the the point about the Gil we have in the Nasuverse as of this moment. First, it was never said that the Gil we had in F/SN and F/Z was from before Enkidu died. Actually, from his talks in HA, he pretty much talks about his story with the immortality herb and the snake. It's the "mature" Gil. Second, his Caster and Archer self are the same, character-wise. He just chose to be summoned as Caster in GO to spite Solomon. The Gil we have in the story isn't a Servant, so he doesn't fall in a specific class. Third and final point, It's pretty clear that F/Z Gil's character is different from F/SN Gil, even Nasu acknowledges it. Also, the way he acts in F/SN can't be any different fron how he acts in GO. Yes, the Gil we have in Babylonia is more mentally mature and all, but the contrast is insane, especially when we have nothing that suggests that F/SN Gil was from before Enkidu died. His character has been, even if a little bit, retconned. |
astroprogsDec 16, 2016 1:37 AM
Yeah but they were referring back to it retroactively astroprogs said: The epic is not in anyway relevant to the the point about the Gil we have in the Nasuverse as of this moment. I'm sorry, what? How is it not? Sure, Nasu has his own take on a couple of legends and stories but he still uses the original one as a basis. It's the same thing for Gilgamesh. astroprogs said: First, it was never said that the Gil we had in F/SN and F/Z was from before Enkidu died. Actually, from his talks in HA, he pretty much talks about his story with the immortality herb and the snake. It's the "mature" Gil. A Heroic Spirit comes with the memory from his entire life. Archer Gilgamesh comes from his "prime" period, where he was a douchebag king, liked to rape women, where he met Enkidu, etc...however he does have memory of what he did later. In F/GO, Amakusa and Touta (the rice guy) talked about how the age the heroic spirit manifest makes them act differently since they don't feel any attachment to their memories from after the period. It's basically the same old knowledge vs experience deal. Touta says clearly that his memory from his older days feel like they're somebody's else. astroprogs said: Second, his Caster and Archer self are the same, character-wise. He just chose to be summoned as Caster in GO to spite Solomon. The Gil we have in the story isn't a Servant, so he doesn't fall in a specific class. No they aren't. Archer Gilgamesh is a douchebag at his core, selfish and only truly cares about himself. The Gilgamesh we have in the story is a Gilgamesh living in a period after Enkidu already died so no he is not a servant but he is in the role of the "wise king he became after his journey" that the epic talks about. Do you want more evidence that Archer Gilgamesh and Caster Gilgamesh represent different aspects of the same legend? Okay then Look at Strange Fake where Archer Gilgamesh is absolutely overjoyed at the fact that Enkidu is alive again and he gets to meet the one he considers his only friend and talk to him again Then we see Caster Gilgamesh, who in one of his lines in F/GO considers himself not fit to talk with Enkidu and deliberately ignores him even though he really likes him. After this, I'm not sure how you can deny my argument. How can you explain this difference in behavior? What kind of excuse will you come up to try and defend your argument? astroprogs said: Third and final point, It's pretty clear that F/Z Gil's character is different from F/SN Gil, even Nasu acknowledges it. Also, the way he acts in F/SN can't be any different fron how he acts in GO. Yes, the Gil we have in Babylonia is more mentally mature and all, but the contrast is insane, especially when we have nothing that suggests that F/SN Gil was from before Enkidu died. His character has been, even if a little bit, retconned. They aren't really any different, after all we have Accell Zero in GO where Gilgamesh was easily defeated because he understimated Lancelot. IF Nasu acknowledges as such though then please source it instead of just talking about. The way he acts in F/SN still fits his legend and his character in GO/CCC, he is still a douchebag, it's just that in GO/CCC he has no motive to try and betray you or to join the "bad guys" and he appreciates the situation he finds himself in more than the modern world he sees in F/Z and F/SN so he has less of a reason to sperg out like he did in UBW. We do have a lot of things that clearly show that Archer Gil comes from Gilgamesh's youth period, we have Andersen saying how he was a bad ruler in CCC (and Gilgamesh agreeing with it), we have the way he acts towards Enkidu in Strange Fake being different from how his Caster self acts towards him in GO. Stop trying to make it seem like Nasu deliberately retconned Gilgamesh's character when he is just following his legend to create another servant based on another aspect of it. Gilgamesh in the epic was a horrible king until after his character development after Enkidu's death, this wasn't changed in Fate and the fact that he destroyed his own kingdom was referred multiple times in the franchise (in F/SN and CCC particularly), trying to forget his past based on his actions in Babylonia and thinking that just that retconned his entire story like you're doing is nonsensical. You should read the epic and try and get some proper translations for FGO instead of just acting based on your instincts and claim "retcon!" at the first apparent contradiction you see. After all the UBW anime is recent and was apparently created together with FGO (to the point where Nasu himself put some GO hints in UBW as per his blog) and Gil was still the main antagonist in it, acting the same way he always acted. |
MightyM16Dec 16, 2016 2:35 AM
Frostbite_ said: MightyM16 said: You guys, I'm disappointed. Gilgamesh becoming a wise king after Enkidu's death was *always* part of his legend, of the epic of Gilgamesh. What Andersen says about him briniging his own city to chaos in CCC still stands though, his Archer self truly represents his completely immature douchebag self after all, Enkidu's whole reason to exist was because Uruk's people were praying to the gods asking for something to be done to their king because he was completely insufferable. After Enkidu's death, Gilgamesh gets crazy and abandoned his kingdom in order to earch for immortality, when he cames back after going through character development, his kingdom is in shambles, then he begins to rebuild it.. Seriously, try reading some history before claiming that Gil's F/SN self is "retconned" or that Nasu changed Gil based on nothing or something like that. Btw @Frostbite, Gil was an "arrogant pricks with motives" even in F/SN, F/Z literary changed nothing about him. I get he had motives, but I meant that he felt like more of a character in F/Z and kind of a plot device in F/SN also, I read some stuff about the Epic and I heard he died of shock when he saw the snake steal his elixir He was a character in F/SN as well. F/Z just offered us a new depth for his relationship with Kirei, that's all. He was still the same character at his core. In some versions of his legends he does die...perhaps Archer Gilgamesh comes from this one? Well regardless of that, Caster Gilgamesh is clearly a reference to the wise king Gilgamesh supposedly became in some versions of his legend after he came back from his journey. |
| @MightyM16 I'd like a citation on that. Tha whole segment was talking about about the future of F/GO. Not to mention, the Summer event introduced no one who can remotely be referred to as the "face" of Fate. Even if they do remember things from all their lives, that's not the point. At no point was it said that the Gil we have in F/SN is the one from before Enkidu died. That's a fan interpretation at best. Unless you cite it, it's your own personal interpretation. Here's Nasu note about seperating F/Z Gil from F/SN in the 20th anniversary poll: SF is in a curious position because it wasn't supervised by Nasu. I don't think it can be a good source of evidence of characterization. Gil is arrogant in everything he was in, so that wasn't the point. It's acting like this: when nothing remotely similar was ever shown in CCC or GO. It's not about having a motivation or being at the side of the protagonist or whatever, because Gil never sees himself in the wrong anyway. Also, note that this face wasn't in ufoUBW. Gil literally says in GO that he chose to be summoned as Caster to spite Solomon. He can be summoned as Archer if he wished. Why are you trying to say that i have some kind of agenda? I'm the last person to scream "retcon" if faced with something i don't inderstand. I HAVE read the epic, so stop assuming things. Gil's demeanour in ufoUBW IS different from his VN counterpart. Alot of his dialogues were altered along with his expressions and overall attitude. This is undeniable. |
astroprogsDec 16, 2016 3:53 AM
When buff and debuff is all you good at.  |
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astroprogs said: @MightyM16 I'd like a citation on that. Tha whole segment was talking about about the future of F/GO. Not to mention, the Summer event introduced no one who can remotely be referred to as the "face" of Fate. Ah I'll be owning you up on that, it was discussed on 4chan and I'll have to go to work soon so I don't really have an interest in looking for it. astroprogs said: Even if they do remember things from all their lives, that's not the point. At no point was it said that the Gil we have in F/SN is the one from before Enkidu died. That's a fan interpretation at best. Unless you cite it, it's your own personal interpretation. I'm not saying he was from before Enkidu died, I'm saying that he is from his prime time, in which he was adventuring and was an all around bad ruler that put his citizens through grief, either by forcing them to do unreasonable things or by raping women, etc. Honestly just look at all the evidence I provided you with, Archer Gilgamesh and Caster Gilgamesh different reactions to Enkidu, for example. Oh this was in the 20th anniversary poll wasn't it? I wouldn't take that seriously after all Kotomine was also separated and people naturally gravitated towards the F/SN version as well, they're fundamentally the same character. astroprogs said: SF is in a curious position because it wasn't supervised by Nasu. I don't think it can be a good source of evidence of characterization. Oh what? Now you are just making things up. SF is canon and it is supervised by Nasu, not to the same extent F/Z was of course but it' still supervised. After all it was Nasu who ended up "stealing" Narita's idea for Edison and they discussed about Enkidu's stats and abilities. I mean c'mon, you're one of those that argue that Prisma is canon aren't you? And Prisma has even LESS Nasu intervention than SF so what gives? Why the double standart? astroprogs said: Gil is arrogant in everything he was in, so that wasn't the point. It's acting like this: when nothing remotely similar was ever shown in CCC or GO. It's not about having a motivation or being at the side of the protagonist or whatever, because Gil never sees himself in the wrong anyway. I really don't see what your picture confirms, just because he acted differently in each story does that mean that what we saw first was retconned? Definitely not, it's still there, it's still part of his legend and therefore part of the base Nasu used to make his character in the series. I mean, there even is a reason behind Gilgamesh being more "extreme" in F/SN, Nasu did say that his 10 years in the modern world affected him and made him even more unstable. I mean, in CCC, Gilgamesh kills you if you don't spent your three command seals at the moment you see him astroprogs said: Gil literally says in GO that he chose to be summoned as Caster to spite Solomon. He can be summoned as Archer if he wished. Are you sure you aren't misinterpreting or inferring what he said? We do get Caster Gilgamesh as a support in the main story and his reasoning to be more of a Caster than an Archer there isn't that one. astroprogs said: Why are you trying to say that i have some kind of agenda? I'm the last person to scream "retcon" if faced with something i don't inderstand. I HAVE read the epic, so stop assuming things. If you read it, why are you so surprised about an aspect of wise king Gilgamesh existing as a servant? I mean his profile says as much, he is the Gilgamesh that came back from his journey, after going through character development Meanwhile Archer Gilgamesh is as Andersen puts: Extra CCC spoilers Not really, he is the same guy, with the same desires. Even if you think he is somewhat different he is not THAT different. Anyway, now that everything is clear, you can't really deny my argument can you? Just accept it, everything this series has shown to us reinforces my argument. |
MightyM16Dec 16, 2016 4:31 AM
| @MightyM16 His prime time IS from before Enkidu died. In both the epic and the Nasuverse he starts being a good ruler after Enkidu dies. There's absoulutely zero info on what era F/SN Gil was summoned from. None. If they're the same character, Nasu wouldn't have seperated them. There's no reason to say he's joking when the reason he gave makes sense. Nasu contributed some characters, but he didn't supervise the story itself. Unlike Zero and Apocrypha, SF didn't have Nasu reading all of Narita's output and check it for changes before publication. When i argue for Prisma Illya, i don't argue for its 100% canonicity, i argue for not going one side or another when we have nothing from Nasu suggesting that. Prillya can be canon and it can be non-canon, we don't know. There are no double standards here. I wouldn't use Prillya for evidence of characterization for F/SN either. No, Nasu didn't say it made him "unstable". He said that witnessing the consumerism of the modern world made him change his goals. His character should still be the same. If "All the Evil In The World" can't affect his mental stability, why do you think living in the modern world can? This "extreme" WAS his original character until it was changed a bit later on. Read his scenes in the UBW route and then compare them to the anime. If you don't say they're different, then you're just being intellectually disingenuous. No, i'm not misinterpreting his lines. I'm not surprised by the way he acts in contrast to the epic, i'm surprised by the way he acts in the Nasuverse. The Gil we have in Babylonia, as i said, should be more mentally mature, but not better-than-Artoria mature, going solely from his F/SN characterization. If such was Gil's fundamental character, it undeniably goes against his demeanour (not goals) in F/SN, which Nasu acknowledges in his notes and how he changed how Gil acts in ufoUBW. Anyway, now that everything is clear, you can't really deny my argument can you? Just accept it, everything this series has shown to us reinforces my argument. It really doesn't and oh i certainly can. |
astroprogsDec 16, 2016 4:55 AM
The entire profile for Babylonia's final boss translated:  Major spoiler warning for Singularity 7. Source. The stakes are getting really high now. While CCC went around beating a near TYPE-level opponents by being in the Moon Cell, GO goes all out on this. The next chapter is sure to feature more Grand Servants. Also, there are some serious implications on how Angra Mainyu, the Grail Mud and Servant corruption worked all along. |
astroprogsDec 16, 2016 5:46 AM
ren9 said: @astro: I understand you. but for the record I was sad to get 5 stars while rolling for 4 stars in the class rate up event when I rolled for nursery rime but got quanzang just as much, maybe more because it wasn't my first failed attempt and I have yet to get her Desire sensor is too strong :( Frostbite_ said: Just to elaborate on the entire "they're still the same character!" thing... No, not really. People change. The HGW was a pretty important event for Kotomine and Gil got to see the modern world. Of course they'd act differently. (and please don't say that Gil is the same no matter what since he didn't change after Angra Mainyu, he's clearly different in each of the routes of F/SN...) I'd say that's the difference in writing, really. |
Frostbite_ said: The SN/Z difference or the inter-route difference? Because while HF!Gil can't really be placed, Fate!Gil and UBW!Gil each have different views on Saber. SN!Gil and Z!Gil can't be called the same character imo tho. The F/SN and F/Z difference. Gen wrote Gil in a way that was more "dignified" and "kingly" than Nasu who focused more on the "psychotic villian king" side of him. Gil isn't really any different between the routes. You can see traces of Fate!Gil in UBW in the post-Answer scene when he confronts Saber in that timeline for the first time. Both Gils wanted to end humanity AND get Saber, but you see him seemingly focus on different things because he's facing Saber and Shirou respectively in the two routes. He won't go into his Saber obsession when facing Shirou or ending humanity when asking/ordering Saber to obey him. |
Frostbite_ said: Sure, I'd buy that, but when I worked through UBW, he just didn't seem to care too much about Saber... I mean, I'd have expected him to stop Saber from running at the Grail if that was the case. And in Fate, he just didn't really mention anything about the Grail and only ever said he'd corrupt Saber with the mud and then bang her. In Fate, Shirou mas as well have been air to him. There's no reason to even aknowledge his existance. He only focuses on Saber. In UBW, Gil actually consideres him a threat even if his pride doesn't allow him to admit it. He chose to focus on Shirou, especially after Shirou flat out said that he can take him. Knowing how Gil thinks, he can't let what was just said slide. His expression went from: To: after that sentence was said. His goal in both routes is to flood the earth with the mud. Saber getting drowned by it is a pleasent and an inevitable side effect. |
astroprogs said: Frostbite_ said: Sure, I'd buy that, but when I worked through UBW, he just didn't seem to care too much about Saber... I mean, I'd have expected him to stop Saber from running at the Grail if that was the case. And in Fate, he just didn't really mention anything about the Grail and only ever said he'd corrupt Saber with the mud and then bang her. In Fate, Shirou mas as well have been air to him. There's no reason to even aknowledge his existance. He only focuses on Saber. In UBW, Gil actually consideres him a threat even if his pride doesn't allow him to admit it. He chose to focus on Shirou, especially after Shirou flat out said that he can take him. Knowing how Gil thinks, he can't let what was just said slide. His expression went from: To: after that sentence was said. His goal in both routes is to flood the earth with the mud. Saber getting drowned by it is a pleasent and an inevitable side effect. astroprogs said: Frostbite_ said: Sure, I'd buy that, but when I worked through UBW, he just didn't seem to care too much about Saber... I mean, I'd have expected him to stop Saber from running at the Grail if that was the case. And in Fate, he just didn't really mention anything about the Grail and only ever said he'd corrupt Saber with the mud and then bang her. In Fate, Shirou mas as well have been air to him. There's no reason to even aknowledge his existance. He only focuses on Saber. In UBW, Gil actually consideres him a threat even if his pride doesn't allow him to admit it. He chose to focus on Shirou, especially after Shirou flat out said that he can take him. Knowing how Gil thinks, he can't let what was just said slide. His expression went from: To: after that sentence was said. His goal in both routes is to flood the earth with the mud. Saber getting drowned by it is a pleasent and an inevitable side effect. that shirou depiction contrast is one of the reasons I think they're different and looking at the dialogue in the fate finale, I don't think he considers Saber being drowned a side effect, but rather a main goal. |
Frostbite_ said: that shirou depiction contrast is one of the reasons I think they're different and looking at the dialogue in the fate finale, I don't think he considers Saber being drowned a side effect, but rather a main goal. The difference in how he look at Shirou comes from Shirou being weaksauce in Fate, that's all. In UBW, Archer activating the reality marble really got Gil's attention. And as i said, in Fate, there's no reason to tell Saber about anything. She "just needs to shut up and be his toy until he get tired of her" as he puts it. Frostbite_ said: Literally from the one of the final scenes of the Fate Route: "I have told you that I have no wish. I do not care how Kotomine uses the Holy Grail. For now, my only concern is you." "For now". |
| "This moment" is the moment he has Saber in his grasp. When she's literally the only one in front of him. In UBW, he's too occupied with Shirou to focus on her. These are just not the same circumstances. F/SN operates in the "layers of revelations" approach. You didn't need to know about Gil's motives in Fate, as there was no reason to go into that yet, so you didn't. You didn't need to know about Shirou's true potential in Fate, as there was no reason to go into that yet, so you didn't. You didn't know about Zouken's existance despite his huge influence on the ritual of the war, as there was no reason to go into that yet, so you didn't, and so on. That's all there's to it. |
| Remove Kirei and Rider from FZ and Gil is the same as in FSN. HFGil with Kirei in HF(that tiny part) and FateGil wehn he is defeated is FZ Gil. IF you cant see FSNGil during : - You look like a virgin - most stuff with Tokiomi - Lancelot. -KARIYA THEATER -Marriage Proposal |
Frostbite_ said: astroprogs said: "This moment" is the moment he has Saber in his grasp. When she's literally the only one in front of him. In UBW, he's too occupied with Shirou to focus on her. These are just not the same circumstances. F/SN operates in the "layers of revelations" approach. You didn't need to know about Gil's motives in Fate, as there was no reason to go into that yet, so you didn't. You didn't need to know about Shirou's true potential in Fate, as there was no reason to go into that yet, so you didn't. You didn't know about Zouken's existance despite his huge influence on the ritual of the war, as there was no reason to go into that yet, so you didn't, and so on. That's all there's to it. Zouken's "huge influence" amounted to nothing in the first two routes. If the characters acted the same and were the same everywhere, Sakura wouldn't have only been ready in one route. Gil would not have just ignored Saber completely in UBW and ignored Shirou completely in Fate. Hell, Shirou was incapable of creating the UBW till a little after Saber left for Rin. Gil could have just said "Yeah, okay, was fun, but you're clearly a lot weaker than Archer, so I'll stop toying with you and just turn you into mincemeat with a couple swords in the back now and then go look for Saber" at any point in time before that. Us not knowing about Gil wanting to destroy the world in Fate is because he doesn't care much about that. Us not knowing about Shirou's potential in Fate is because he never had the opportunity to use it and never really ended up playing a role. Even then, it was hinted at a fair amount. Us not knowing about Zouken is because he literally didn't do a thing except maybe sponsor Shinji. "Amounting to nothing" is the reason you didn't need to know. All the characters acted the same, it's the circumstances that changed. Zouken acts only in HF due to his encounter with Shirou which made him realize he can manipulate Sakura in a different way. This wasn't clear to him in Fate and UBW because he wasn't aware of the emotions Sakura had for him. And i already mentioned the reasons Gil's focus shift between Shirou and Saber in UBW and Fate; Fate!Shirou > "whatever insect, get out of the way so i can get all 18+ with Saber", UBW!Shirou > "=_= Feikaaa!". Gil WAS ready to kill Shirou and actually did try before Archer used Rho Aias to protect him the first time and Saber interfering the second time. Before that, he said it himself, he just wanted to toy with Shirou to pass the time until Saber gets here. |
astroprogsDec 16, 2016 8:45 AM
Frostbite_ said: I thought I remembered Zouken acting in HF because the vessel was ready. If he didn't act in the others, that was probably because the vessel wasn't ready. He still had the Crest Worm, so he thought he was calling the shots anyway. Either way, the fact that the focus shifts so abruptly is the reason I believe each version of him has a different character. Maybe it's not enough to convince you, but that's none of my business at this point. At the start of all the routes, the vessel wasn't ready. Zouken's original plan was to use Sakura's offspring as the Matou Master in the next war. One of the reasons for him giving up on using Sakura was because she was unexpectedly mentally strong. No matter how much "training" he subjects her to, she retains her presence of mind. In HF, after the encounter with Shirou, he finally realized a crack he could exploit in Sakura's psyche; use her love for Shirou and jealousy of her sister (he plays at the high possibility of her winning the war and gaining Shirou's affection, and god knows he's already head over heals for the beautiful school idol) to push her over the edge and fill her with negative emotions, thus transforming her into a suitable and powerful vessel for Angra Mainyu. Personally, I don't see any of the changes between the routes as abrupt. I feel that everything was properly built up towards, so they can surprise without feeling like an asspull. But eh, people are allowed to have their own interpretations of fiction :) |
astroprogs said: @MightyM16 His prime time IS from before Enkidu died. In both the epic and the Nasuverse he starts being a good ruler after Enkidu dies. There's absoulutely zero info on what era F/SN Gil was summoned from. None. His prime time is his rule before Enkidu + the time he spent with Enkidu I showed you clear evidence that can allow one to pinpoint from what period of time he has been summoned from, you're just ignoring it. astroprogs said: If they're the same character, Nasu wouldn't have seperated them. There's no reason to say he's joking when the reason he gave makes sense. Frankly, the reasoning behind the separation is weird. I don't agree with it at all, Saber wasn't separated and Kiritsugu also wasn't even though he is the one with most change between F/Z and F/SN, Shirou also wasn't separated in his Fate route self, his UBW self and his HF self. The method felt arbitrary to me. astroprogs said: Nasu contributed some characters, but he didn't supervise the story itself. Unlike Zero and Apocrypha, SF didn't have Nasu reading all of Narita's output and check it for changes before publication. It's still a canon work, reinforced by Nasu and as you said, he also contributed to characters even if the overall plot is up to Narita exclusively, that means Nasu was obviously consulted for "new" characters like Enkidu, how Gilgamesh would behave with him and so on. astroprogs said: When i argue for Prisma Illya, i don't argue for its 100% canonicity, i argue for not going one side or another when we have nothing from Nasu suggesting that. Prillya can be canon and it can be non-canon, we don't know. There are no double standards here. I wouldn't use Prillya for evidence of characterization for F/SN either. The thing is, Nasu has zero say in what happens in Prisma, that doesn't happens with SF. Saying that something in SF is not relevant to the Fate universe at large doesn't really makes sense. astroprogs said: No, Nasu didn't say it made him "unstable". He said that witnessing the consumerism of the modern world made him change his goals. His character should still be the same. If "All the Evil In The World" can't affect his mental stability, why do you think living in the modern world can? Because it did? Gilgamesh is a lot more unstable in F/SN than he is in GO, that is a fact. In CCC, he begins like his F/SN as well but ends up mellowing out because he ends up liking the mooncell astroprogs said: This "extreme" WAS his original character until it was changed a bit later on. Read his scenes in the UBW route and then compare them to the anime. If you don't say they're different, then you're just being intellectually disingenuous. They're still fundamentally the same and worked forward the same goal. UBW anime Gilgamesh still killed Illya like she was a piece of trash like VN Gil did. UBW anime Gilgamesh still understimated Shirou and paid for it like VN Gil did. Honestly, a lot of characters weren't presented in the exact same way the VN presented them in the UBW anime and that's jut natural, what matters is that they managed to keep their core. I'm talking about his role in the story, do you honestly think he chose to behave more like a Caster in the story to mock Solomon when he was actually nerfed by it? astroprogs said: I'm not surprised by the way he acts in contrast to the epic, i'm surprised by the way he acts in the Nasuverse. The Gil we have in Babylonia, as i said, should be more mentally mature, but not better-than-Artoria mature, going solely from his F/SN characterization. The epic was the base for Gilgamesh's character in Fate therefore it shouldn't have surprised you. The Gilgamesh in F/SN fits his legend, the Gilgamesh in Babylon also does, they're just two different aspects of it. astroprogs said: If such was Gil's fundamental character, it undeniably goes against his demeanour (not goals) in F/SN, which Nasu acknowledges in his notes and how he changed how Gil acts in ufoUBW. No, Nasu never said any of that. What he said egarding ufoUBW in his newest blog post was how some scenes in it contained foreshadowing for GO You really didn't. You're deliberately avoiding my stronger arguments because you don't know how to make a proper rebuttal to them, like the whole Andersen thing in CCC, how he said that Gilgamesh was a bad ruler and king (and Gilgamesh agreed with him) and how this is different from what we saw in Babylon, the difference in how Caster Gilgamesh and Archer Gilgamesh treat Enkidu and so on, how Caster Gilgamesh's profile especifically says he is the Gilgamesh that came from after his journey and had to rebuilt the city he destroyed with his foolishness and how Archer Gilgamesh is clearly painted as the Gilgamesh from his prime time where he was a bad king, just wanted to have fun with Enkidu and fulfill his selfish desires. |
| ...But i DID make a proper rebuttal to your points. *sigh* The one thing i didn't comment on was the bit from CCC because it was irrelevant as i said multiple time that i was talking about his demeanor, not his goals. Clearly neither of us are going to change their minds on this, so let's just drop it. |
| I just read a entire page about the canonization of Gilgamesh, and things like this just are annoying. We're not children, come on now. |
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| There's a lot of this going on around here. |
| Isn't there a funny gif of Shirou from ubw movie casually deflecting all of Archers sword spam on loop? Close enough kinda. |
In other news, whine for me Zasshu Now to decide to use my two grails on him to get him to lvl 90 or to save them for later after I get 2 more to get Jack to lvl 100. |
My Queens |
| Saber Alter new animation confirmed. Wohooo. and the rest of FSN servants too it seems. |
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| Confirmed: -Valentine Re-Run -Saber Alter animation updates All FSN Fuyuki Servants will get their animations renewed (Alter's was shown live at the event) Unconfirmed: -Rainbow exp cards and Doors will be introduced, providing more exp and QP than gold ones. -Salomon event raid, each bond gives 50% bonus to attack, +10% from bond 6 onwards -New Raid CE, extends combat rounds by 1 per CE, +2 for LB -Merlin and King Hassan will not be introduced into the gatcha, but can be obtained after completing a whole bunch of quests. I have my doubts about that last part, it sounds like they're going to be free, but most likely they will just be put into the gacha after completing the quests. |
My Queens |
-Mahesvara said: Confirmed: -Valentine Re-Run -Saber Alter animation updates All FSN Fuyuki Servants will get their animations renewed (Alter's was shown live at the event) Unconfirmed: -Rainbow exp cards and Doors will be introduced, providing more exp and QP than gold ones. -Salomon event raid, each bond gives 50% bonus to attack, +10% from bond 6 onwards -New Raid CE, extends combat rounds by 1 per CE, +2 for LB -Merlin and King Hassan will not be introduced into the gatcha, but can be obtained after completing a whole bunch of quests. I have my doubts about that last part, it sounds like they're going to be free, but most likely they will just be put into the gacha after completing the quests. That last part definitely sounds like BS. We all know DW isn't generous to be giving out free 5* servants |
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FalK-ON said: Its to good to be true, but then again....what if...it is...true...-Mahesvara said: Confirmed: -Valentine Re-Run -Saber Alter animation updates All FSN Fuyuki Servants will get their animations renewed (Alter's was shown live at the event) Unconfirmed: -Rainbow exp cards and Doors will be introduced, providing more exp and QP than gold ones. -Salomon event raid, each bond gives 50% bonus to attack, +10% from bond 6 onwards -New Raid CE, extends combat rounds by 1 per CE, +2 for LB -Merlin and King Hassan will not be introduced into the gatcha, but can be obtained after completing a whole bunch of quests. I have my doubts about that last part, it sounds like they're going to be free, but most likely they will just be put into the gacha after completing the quests. That last part definitely sounds like BS. We all know DW isn't generous to be giving out free 5* servants Edit: SOLOMON RELEASE DATE: 12/22 Salomon event raid, Bonds from 5 onward give attack boost (The higher the bond, the better the boost) 30 Quartz gift before final battle. 1/2 Campaign for Main Quests up to Babylon, until final battle, starting from 17:00 JST today. MERLIN GACHA STARTING ON 12/22 AT 19:00 JST, LASTS UNTIL THE 31ST Merlin will be the last pickup of 2016 |
-MahesvaraDec 16, 2016 11:34 PM
My Queens |
Spare your money for Grand Caster (you know what I mean). Considering I already have Waver, don't really need him...but he's hax so...unless they nerf him for playable version which is what I am reading. |
Kaiser-chanDec 16, 2016 11:47 PM
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| 30 quartz will be given to those who clear babylonia story. Finally got a reason to rush it. |
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| We'll probably be getting King Hassan in the next gacha too, rip quartz and rip a portion of my next paycheck. |
My Queens |
| King Hassan needs to come out and stop hiding. |
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| Man I'd love a Merlin if I didn't have every other limited Caster... I guess, why not, I'll bite. |
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| ladies and gentleman it's my time to shine. I am going to summon for him:D wish me luck on my quest |
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| Guess that didn't went well. |
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| ME: Man FUCK getting Merlin, imma do the gacha anyway and fail Merlin: yo I gotchu fam Me: Well.. Shit. So yeah, Enkidu got, didn't even use a Quartz account.  Also all skills are updated. |
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