Are you a feminist?

princessv said:
I am a feminist because I support, hope for, and work towards equality for people of all sex and gender identities.

princessv said:
@Maal: [snip]

Maal said:


Yeah, i didn't look the for the word enought... and i know why breast cancer get more publicity, a boob is prettier than a random internal organ, and people feel less ashamed to say they have breast cancer than prostate, cause it doesn't involve an anal inspection.

Maal said:
If Feminism is simply the equality of the 2, why not simply call it sexual equality? To me, feminism DO mean women to power, because how can this word mean equality if it focus only on the female part. Where is the Manilism, that will watch the men interests to ensure it wouldn't go bellow women and stay equal if they we reach it? (But who am i to critic words...)

selective_yellow said:
Actually why not egalitarianism? It's much nicer.

Jigero said:
Feminism in a nut shell. " I want all the benefits of being treated like a man and all the benefits of being treated like a woman and none of the draw backs associated with either!"

princessv said:

And I believe the word you are searching for is "masculinism" (or "masculism"). It's a real term. You can look it up. I sort of support masculinism; I have problems with that term, because some people use it to mean anti-feminism and support for male dominance. If more people used it I might consider using it to describe myself, but I'm scared people might think I mean I support male dominance, so I'm not comfortable with it just yet. And actually many feminists support men's rights as well as women's, so I'm just going to stick with feminist for the time being.

hellogoodbye said:
Oh, please. So we can pretend male standing is an issue? Anyone that values concise language will point to "feminism" as the precise term.

AnnoKano said:


There are several things men are disadvantaged for; the main one being fathers getting access to children after divorcing their wives. This is one key social aspect which women are clearly better off.

Men can also be disadvantaged in rape cases sometimes. I have heard the stories of men being falsely accused of rape by women; this means the man's name will be printed in the newspaper (causing him all kinds of harm) while the woman won't have hers printed. While I can appreciate the need to have the woman's name censored, being accused of rape could ruin someone's life.

---


I disagree with Monad. While I appreciate the definition of a word varies with its use, you are not talking about the 'definition' of feminism but the connotations the term has.

As for the 'masculinity movement'; the autonym of masculinity is femininity, not feminism.

The movement against feminism is known as Anti-feminism and I assure you that it is very much a real social movement.

rekindledflame said:
I'm all for everyone having equal opportunity and rights. By some people's definition that would be pro-feminist....I don't really care how it's labeled though to be honest.

Unfortunately, when I think of feminist debate or conversation I always view it as vs. men. That is to say, man is the key to the problems women have. Which isn't necessarily true.

Take one line for example "Also, need to teach men to treat women equally. Don't treat them as sex objects; treat them as human beings. " While this is true, it's hardly the entire picture. Take for instance women who...to put it bluntly dress like whore's then are suprised that they are treated as such. I don't see a reason to take that further, if one can't grasp the problem behind that, well....there's no use in trying to explain it. This too could be shifted to man, saying that men set unrealistic cultural expectations on what a women should look like or dress like, but that seems like a scapegoat to me.

At the end of the day, I think woman is her own worst enemy. Although, with today's pop culture, it's not something I consider shocking. Not to say women are at fault for how things are currently, because that certainly wouldn't be the entire picture. There's numerous pieces to that puzzle, but I often question how much self respect some really have.

princessv said:
The only problem I have is when people think that someone's attire justifies rape. Sure, you can ask for sex, but if the person doesn't give consent, that is rape, no matter what the person was wearing or their occupation.

Jack_Rav said:
I'm all for equal rights, but I dislike the connotations surrounding the term feminism. I guess egalitarian would be the term I would opt for, because that also includes characteristics such as race, religion, sexual orientation et al...which I feel avoids the 'man vs woman' argument which unfolds whenever feminism is brought up. (See this thread to see.)

Jack_Rav said:

That was not what was implied at all by the police officer's advice which led to the SlutWalks in recent memory. It was not excusing (certainly not justifying) the actions of the would-be rapist. A person dressed provocatively is more likely to attract unwanted attention than someone else who is not so dressed. That this increased attention may also bring with it those persons who can't comprehend 'no means no' is inevitable.

princessv said:
@monad: Actually, most feminists define feminism as wanting equality. The only people I have ever heard say that feminism means anything other than equality are non-feminists, who I think are the last people to ask about what feminism means, just as I would never ask a straight person to explain homosexuality or a woman to explain what it means to be a man.

You are right about words changing meaning. But the dictionary is constantly changing. You can look up "gay" right now: the first definition I found was homosexual. Today feminism means equality for men and women. Long ago, it actually meant "the state of being feminine." But the dictionary changed along with the changes of meaning. So unless you are saying this shift of meaning occured within the last year or so, you can trust the dictionary.

Perhaps to you (and many on this site) feminism represents all that anti-man feminazi bullshit, but to everyone I know in real life and many people I've met online, it represents the desire for equality. Give me a couple days and I can probably find hundreds of women who agree with that definition. I can find well over a dozen in a minute (I am surrounded by self-identified feminists). That is why that is what you will find in the dictionary, on wikipedia, in scholarly texts, etc.

Also, all the feminists I've met support men's rights, like in the situations AnnoKano mentioned. I certainly do. I would like you to find some actual feminists and talk to them. Trust me, we are everywhere. Because I get the feeling everything you've heard comes from anti-feminists or the media, which you should already know is full of lies and propaganda. If you believe the media and not the dictionary, then... I just don't even know what to say.

princessv said:

(B) How to change the observed effects? That is what the feminist movement has been doing since it began. In fact, you can even look back at the women's suffrage movement as an example from before the term "feminism" existed.

I won't even try to say all the ways to do it, because I'm sure I'll leave parts out. But here is part of the plan: encourage women. Pretty simple, I would think. Encourage women to give math and science a try. The reason I've always heard to explain the observed difference in top-level math ability is that women are discouraged to pursue top level mathematics. Same with the unequal education thing. Of course, this varies widely by region, but in the USA men are usually more encouraged into grad school than women (Though, interestingly, last I checked there are slightly more women than men in undergrad. But once you get to grad school there are significantly more men). In the work force, encourage women to pursue higher jobs and speak up. The most commonly given reason I've heard about unequal pay is that women don't want to ask for a raise, because that is just they way we have been socialized. Apparently men have no problem asking for a raise.

Also, need to teach men to treat women equally. Don't treat them as sex objects; treat them as human beings.

Of course, men also should be encouraged to pursue higher education and jobs and all that fun stuff. But right now men tend to be encouraged more than women, so that need to be evened out.

And I am also an egalitarian.

princessv said:

And I want to point out that while most peole here may think feminism is an anti-man movement, we (MAL) are not necessarily representative of the world. Especially since this particular thread has such a small sample size. Perhaps most of the world believes that feminism is an anti-male movement, or perhaps most people think that it is an equality movement. If you can find a (good) study on that, I would like to see.

princessv said:
(B) How to change the observed effects? That is what the feminist movement has been doing since it began. In fact, you can even look back at the women's suffrage movement as an example from before the term "feminism" existed.

princessv said:
I won't even try to say all the ways to do it, because I'm sure I'll leave parts out. But here is part of the plan: encourage women. Pretty simple, I would think.

princessv said:
Encourage women to give math and science a try.

princessv said:
The reason I've always heard to explain the observed difference in top-level math ability is that women are discouraged to pursue top level mathematics.

princessv said:
Same with the unequal education thing. Of course, this varies widely by region, but in the USA men are usually more encouraged into grad school than women (Though, interestingly, last I checked there are slightly more women than men in undergrad. But once you get to grad school there are significantly more men).

princessv said:
In the work force, encourage women to pursue higher jobs and speak up.

princessv said:
The most commonly given reason I've heard about unequal pay is that women don't want to ask for a raise, because that is just they way we have been socialized. Apparently men have no problem asking for a raise.

princessv said:
Also, need to teach men to treat women equally. Don't treat them as sex objects; treat them as human beings.

princessv said:
Of course, men also should be encouraged to pursue higher education and jobs and all that fun stuff. But right now men tend to be encouraged more than women, so that need to be evened out.

And I am also an egalitarian.

Lauriet said:
As it stands, women are capable of getting away with crimes by just batting their eyelashes and having their activists protect them.

Lauriet said:
Nothing has really changed and gender equality is beyond human capacity. Because now we're suffering from value dissonance and an instant-gratifying outlook.

Lauriet said:
I'm feminine due to me being around females during my early to late childhood, but I don't root for femininist because the average person is uninformed to believe that it is only directed to females.

Lauriet said:
As the OP stated.... well, you know. The only way to even get close to this sort of pipedream is to make the education system the world over much better, nuke the hell out of the backward countries where women are simple docile stock, and fix the stagnation of people's values.

Monad said:


Well as you your self said is called "anti-feminist" not anything that has the word masculine inside. That was what i was trying to say.

Monad said:
And you may say that i am talking about the connotations the words has when i talk about feminism but in the end am simply talking about the "true meaning". Basically what it really IS. Not connotations or definition (definitions are given by dictionaries anyway and i clearly made an argument against the way of dictionaries). Just what it TRULY represents. Simple as that, because lets face it. THAT is what truly matters.

AnnoKano said:



Not at all.

First of all, what you are calling the "true" meaning of the word feminism is subjective. While you may perceive your perspective to be in line with everyone elses, that is a presumption on your part. The belief that all feminists are man haters may seem common to you (and perhaps most people would agree) but it is certainly not true of everyone. And indeed the degrees to which people believe the 'feminist' stereotype is subject to variation too.

Furthermore, unless you can find a better word to describe the feminist mindset (egalitarian comes close, but I don't think it is quite the same) you are just assuming connotations always fit the bill. Feminism comes in many forms and has existed for well over a century; the feminism you are speaking of is a relatively recent idea.

Finally, based on what you have said about feminism, would you also agree that the following are also true:

All Socialists and Communists are Stalin sympathisers.

All gay rights advocates are either camp effeminate men or butch, manly lesbians.

Baman said:
Egalitarianism here, if anything. Feminism just sounds wrong, no matter how people interpret it, the inherent meaning in the word carries with it a definite sexist feel.

But in the end, I'm all for a political and legal equality in so far it is doable and sensible.
The only major change I can think of that I'd request over here is to enable forced conscription for girls as well, or just ditch the whole thing.

holypoop said:
I'm a feminist, and I can't tell you how many people have asked me 'why I hate men'.. That's not what being a feminist is at all. And it saddens me that there are so many uneducated people in the world that thinks that, both men and women.
Though, we're on an anime site with what seems to be mostly teenaged boys active in the forums, so of course there aren't many feminists here. I mean, have you seen the shit that's in most anime today? Ugh, I wish I could find that video I once saw about sexism in media..

Jigero said:
Feminism in a nut shell. " I want all the benefits of being treated like a man and all the benefits of being treated like a woman and none of the draw backs associated with either!"

Monad said:


Pretty much this.
The dictionary can say whatever it wants but feminist isn't about equality. How could it be. The world it self starts from the word "female". No matter what the feminist supporters want the dictionaries to write the truth is that feminist is about females having all the rights of men but still be treated with special women privileges when it is convenient.
If you support true equality and you are not like that then you ain't a feminist. Maybe the feminism did mean that when it started but words change meaning depending on the meaning society gives them. And most feminist in society right now are like Jigero said so the word feminism has new meaning and the dictionaries are simply out of date or try not to initiate conflict. There was a time when being gay meant you are a happy person. Now it just means you are a homosexual. Words change depending on their usage and the usage of the word "feminism" in today's society means anything but equal rights supporters.
So dear princessv, if you are an equal right supporter then just declare yourself that or find some new word. The word feminist just won't do and your post claiming that you call yourself feminist because of popularity it's just wrong, the word "feminist" certainly isn't a popular word about "equality" anymore and you are delusional if you think so. And no most feminists DON'T support men rights as you think ether, the only place they support men rights is when they try to wright what feminism is in a dictionary.

holypoop said:
I'm a feminist, and I can't tell you how many people have asked me 'why I hate men'.. That's not what being a feminist is at all. And it saddens me that there are so many uneducated people in the world that thinks that, both men and women.
Though, we're on an anime site with what seems to be mostly teenaged boys active in the forums, so of course there aren't many feminists here. I mean, have you seen the shit that's in most anime today? Ugh, I wish I could find that video I once saw about sexism in media..

gregory003 said:


To be honest, I don't think you would say that if you weren't a girl. There are quite a lot of older more mature people on here, not just "teenaged boys". Even then sexism as a joke is completely fine in anime. I haven't honestly seen much anime that have real sexism in them.