VampireMizore said: We shoud decide together as a community ._. We should have decided as a communiti for this damned update.Now...it's late to pretend to be one :/ Onibokusu said: freedoleen said: Since quite a few people posted a similar argument here, allow me to say this: book has pages as well. No one says it should be called books because of that. So yes, the name of the site itself is still perfectly correct. MyAnimeBook. The "list" is now divided into the chapters, and each chapter has pages within it. Sounds nice,but not as hilarious as MyAnimeScroll,lol. |
 "Only the dead have seen the end of war". ~Plato~ |
| This is an utterly terrible idea, to the point where I'm frankly amazed that Xinil felt it was a viable choice worth spending months developing. The change to the navigation interface was one thing; I frankly find the new setup rather irritating, but since it still contains everything the old sidebar did, I can live with it. But this...this removes a primary feature of the site that's been there since the beginning, one that myself and many other users consider integral to our whole experience here. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, having my entire list appear on a single page is incredibly convenient. (In fact, my bookmark for the site isn't my panel, but the list page itself.) Just by loading up a single page, I can have every show I've ever seen or want to see available at a glance, and a quick use of Ctrl+F can take me to any of them instantly. I frequently find myself linking to the individual pages of entries I've already watched or am planning to, and having them all at hand makes it easy to tab up several of them at once, something an in-page search wouldn't allow me to do. There's also the simple pleasure of looking down the entire page and knowing that it represents the entirety of my anime-viewing experience. This isn't something I've been able to do with any other entertainment medium...I've been reading books and watching movies and TV shows for my entire life, and I could never weed out every single one I've read or seen. But with anime, I can mark the exact month when I started watching, and that list comprises every single bit of my involvement with it. Seeing the entire list on one page is a visual representation of that fandom, and I've taken pride in seeing it grow continuously longer since I first created it. Now, all I see when I visit my list is a grand total of seven currently-watching series at the top of a mostly-black screen, which frankly just looks pathetic. See, here's the thing: as an end-user, what does or doesn't make the database server run more efficiently doesn't concern me in the least, nor should it. What does concern me, however, is that the site's features that I use continue to work properly, and this "update" significantly hampers said features. Many other users have suggested various means of decreasing server load without resorting to this. One of the best I've seen is eliminating or somehow restricting all of the information under the "More" tab, or at least loading it dynamically when accessed, as I'd imagine that all of those queries represent a significant portion of the server activity. (Hell, the only reason I pay attention to that information is because I enter notes on a single series in there.) The fact that Xinil chose to rip out the "Show All" option wholesale, and in the process of doing so (temporarily) break several other features such as tags, smacks of poor planning and ham-handedness. Either work out a more efficient solution on the back-end, or else just live with the server load...but don't remove functionality that's always been there. The bottom line here is that, if MyAnimeList is now a business, then we are its customers, and we "pay" via the ad impressions we generate. Without the revenue we generate, the site would simply cease to exist. Surely making a substantial change like this that's been ill-received enough to generate 27 pages (and counting) worth of mostly-negative feedback should have been run by the community beforehand, correct? This is the sort of pushing of ill-advised features that I'd expect from a garbage site like Facebook. I can't say that I'll stop using the site, as I've come to rely on it too much and have too many series listed to make a transfer worthwhile, but I also know that I'll never support this change, and I'll jump right on any extension workarounds that are made available. Hell, maybe I'll even refresh my list several times whenever I view it, just to bump up the server workload a bit. |
| I think this story is quite interesting: AlphaEnd said: A few days ago a friend of mine who's rather new to anime asked me for some suggestions. Naturally, I gave them a few suggestions and a link to my list, to check out my highly rated series. A few minutes ago, I got on msn and this is how our conversation went down: Friend: whats this link you gave me supposed to be? Me: My anime list. Friend: oh... I thought you've seen a lot? Me: You have to click the links to see everything else. Friend: what links, you only gave me one? Me: The completed, on hold, plan to watch, and dropped links at the top. Friend: dude, don't be annoying. can't you use excel or notepad then just send me that? Me: *sigh* Friend: Well how do I make it show everything on one page? It's taking like 5mins to load each page with my internet Me: ROFL And I only have about 260 total entries. I just had to post this here. http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=230307 Friend: dude, don't be annoying. can't you use excel or notepad then just send me that? -> This sentence typically shows us how useless the list page has become, compared to before.  |
| I liked the Show all function too etc.. But why not only limit like the PTW to something like 25 (seriously, putting 100's of animes on your PTW is just unnecessary...) and the currently watching to like 25 too (Nobody can tell me that they can even watch 25 shows at a time seriously..) Of course the numbers aren't absolute, but I just can't help but find that having more than 50, 100 or 200 in those two sections is way more unnecessary than having more than 200 in the completed section. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Higashi_no_Kaze said: I seriously have 35-50 currently watching at a time, and the majority of them are currently airing TV series. And thats even with keeping DVD specials in my on hold list. I liked the Show all function too etc.. But why not only limit like the PTW to something like 25 (seriously, putting 100's of animes on your PTW is just unnecessary...) and the currently watching to like 25 too (Nobody can tell me that they can even watch 25 shows at a time seriously..) Of course the numbers aren't absolute, but I just can't help but find that having more than 50, 100 or 200 in those two sections is way more unnecessary than having more than 200 in the completed section. I have over 100 on my plan to watch as well, but thats mostly because I have them dled, but choosing to catch up on longer ongoing series like Detective Conan first. I can see your point with PTW, however can not with currently watching. |
Top_Gun said: This is an utterly terrible idea, to the point where I'm frankly amazed that Xinil felt it was a viable choice worth spending months developing. The change to the navigation interface was one thing; I frankly find the new setup rather irritating, but since it still contains everything the old sidebar did, I can live with it. But this...this removes a primary feature of the site that's been there since the beginning, one that myself and many other users consider integral to our whole experience here. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, having my entire list appear on a single page is incredibly convenient. (In fact, my bookmark for the site isn't my panel, but the list page itself.) Just by loading up a single page, I can have every show I've ever seen or want to see available at a glance, and a quick use of Ctrl+F can take me to any of them instantly. I frequently find myself linking to the individual pages of entries I've already watched or am planning to, and having them all at hand makes it easy to tab up several of them at once, something an in-page search wouldn't allow me to do. There's also the simple pleasure of looking down the entire page and knowing that it represents the entirety of my anime-viewing experience. This isn't something I've been able to do with any other entertainment medium...I've been reading books and watching movies and TV shows for my entire life, and I could never weed out every single one I've read or seen. But with anime, I can mark the exact month when I started watching, and that list comprises every single bit of my involvement with it. Seeing the entire list on one page is a visual representation of that fandom, and I've taken pride in seeing it grow continuously longer since I first created it. Now, all I see when I visit my list is a grand total of seven currently-watching series at the top of a mostly-black screen, which frankly just looks pathetic. See, here's the thing: as an end-user, what does or doesn't make the database server run more efficiently doesn't concern me in the least, nor should it. What does concern me, however, is that the site's features that I use continue to work properly, and this "update" significantly hampers said features. Many other users have suggested various means of decreasing server load without resorting to this. One of the best I've seen is eliminating or somehow restricting all of the information under the "More" tab, or at least loading it dynamically when accessed, as I'd imagine that all of those queries represent a significant portion of the server activity. (Hell, the only reason I pay attention to that information is because I enter notes on a single series in there.) The fact that Xinil chose to rip out the "Show All" option wholesale, and in the process of doing so (temporarily) break several other features such as tags, smacks of poor planning and ham-handedness. Either work out a more efficient solution on the back-end, or else just live with the server load...but don't remove functionality that's always been there. The bottom line here is that, if MyAnimeList is now a business, then we are its customers, and we "pay" via the ad impressions we generate. Without the revenue we generate, the site would simply cease to exist. Surely making a substantial change like this that's been ill-received enough to generate 27 pages (and counting) worth of mostly-negative feedback should have been run by the community beforehand, correct? This is the sort of pushing of ill-advised features that I'd expect from a garbage site like Facebook. I can't say that I'll stop using the site, as I've come to rely on it too much and have too many series listed to make a transfer worthwhile, but I also know that I'll never support this change, and I'll jump right on any extension workarounds that are made available. Hell, maybe I'll even refresh my list several times whenever I view it, just to bump up the server workload a bit. 100% signed! Hopefully I'll find some time to code a parser, which extracts all information from the list and then just dumps it in a better format. Especially without those thousands of tables, which really do increase pageloading time. You should just start to respect the standards given by the W3C. It's one List for every category (Watching, Completed...), so just use one table for every List! Make it all cached, so only changes are queried into the database. There are much better ways to optimize the server load, instead of taking away functionality. And one should start by cleaning up this messy coding style! Anyway thanks for your hard work and for supplying us with such a great place to share our love for animes. Well, just involve the community a bit more into upcomming and planned changes ;) |
Thanks to everyone involved in making these fantastic events!      It was a lot of fun! Thank you! <3 *hugs* |
| I'd like to see some staff replies on this matter. Seems like we're all being ignored at the moment. |
Executer said: there have been several staff replies already. most of the people arguing for the change have been members of the staff. but only Xinil has any actual authority to affect change and its unlikely that he will.I'd like to see some staff replies on this matter. Seems like we're all being ignored at the moment. |
Executer said: I'd like to see some staff replies on this matter. Seems like we're all being ignored at the moment. Seriously. I agree. I need the list the way it was. It was beautiful. How can this happen like this?? |
 |
| I'm all for show all or returning it to how it was. It's hard to get me to post anything anywhere. That this is my first forum post should show my interest in the matter being fixed. Been here since just before my birthday in '08, and loved the site this whole time until i came in about 2 hours ago and checked a list and got confused as to what happened, then progressively frowned deeper the more i've read. Limit profile clutter instead of this! I've seen profile pages take 5+ minutes to load on DSL, and even 500+ lists load in mere moments. 50 sparkling gifs are killing bandwidth, not all that text. |
Tecu said: Remove Plan to Watch lists and give us Show All in exchange. I hate people with 100+ titles in their "Plan to Watch" anyway. Quite and egoistic post there :P. Nice to know someone hates me ;). Personally, PTW is the only reason I'm here. It's the most important part of the list for me. I don't care so much about what I allready watched but I do need a list for things I plan to watch in the future. I search for titles I might like and add them for the future use. |
BierzgalJun 13, 2010 3:08 AM
 |
| Hi, Since my list is not very big, I liked the "Show all" option. Any chance to have it back ? Thanks for your great job. Bye Arnaud. |
| Arnaud. |
Sozen said: I'm all for show all or returning it to how it was. It's hard to get me to post anything anywhere. That this is my first forum post should show my interest in the matter being fixed. Been here since just before my birthday in '08, and loved the site this whole time until i came in about 2 hours ago and checked a list and got confused as to what happened, then progressively frowned deeper the more i've read. Limit profile clutter instead of this! I've seen profile pages take 5+ minutes to load on DSL, and even 500+ lists load in mere moments. 50 sparkling gifs are killing bandwidth, not all that text. Sozen said: actually the gifs etc are all hosted by other sites and don't effect MAL and the the serverload (not bandwith) that being discussed is generated by the fact that each entry makes probably a dozen or more calls to various lists/tables/etc within the db. to see what I mean just go to your list, right click anywhere and choose "view page source" the ctrl+f and type in the name of an anime currently being displayed on your list. you'll see a ton of information between it and the next entry.Limit profile clutter instead of this! I've seen profile pages take 5+ minutes to load on DSL, and even 500+ lists load in mere moments. 50 sparkling gifs are killing bandwidth, not all that text. basically its sloppy programing being covered up by eliminating features people actually care about instead of streamlining the backend and delivery systems or eliminating features most people probably wouldn't even miss. Tecu said: my, isn't that big hearted of you :/Remove Plan to Watch lists and give us Show All in exchange. I hate people with 100+ titles in their "Plan to Watch" anyway. ptw is even more important than show all. getting rid of it would probably eliminate 50%+ of the userbase almost instantaneously. |
Tecu said: While removing it would be worse than this update, having it excluded from "Show All" would be quite reasonable. Of course, it should still be accessible in its own tab.Remove Plan to Watch lists and give us Show All in exchange. I hate people with 100+ titles in their "Plan to Watch" anyway. |
| I don't know if already someone mentioned it (not really want to read all the 28 pages..), but if i change a series/movie in my Plan to Watch-List with the "+"-Button, it would ask me to change the Status in "Watching" or whatever. Now this option isn't available anymore. This would be the thing, which bugs me. |
  |
MisterSaito said: i want my 'show all' status back :< +1 vote Onibokusu said: paperkitten said: If xinil doesn't revert we can't do anything about it. Except use another anime list service. +1 |
ArcanJun 13, 2010 4:09 AM
Jdthebud said: GlennMagusHarvey said: That's why you don't use voting or crowd noise as your tactic. Your tactic should be to give the admins a viable and more favorable alternative. RoboticEarthling said: I really liked being able to see my entire anime list at once. Looking at the page source of the anime list page, there seems to be a lot of unseen information in the code that many people probably don't use, like the sections for fansub group, storage, rewatch value, downloaded episodes, and more. Wouldn't it make more sense to only load the basic information in the anime list page, then load the more detailed information if the user requests it? Cutting out unnecessary information in the anime list page would probably help a ton with server load. this seems like something that could work. I don't know how many people bother with stuff like storage and downloaded episodes anyway. With so much streaming nowadays, these really become moot. There must be some other, more user friendly and less "invasive" way to reduce server loads. A huge change to the main function of the site without seemingly testing it properly before introducing it to the site seems lazy and causes more problems. You're driving people away right now, guys. I do use those functions but wouldn't care less to see them gone if I could still have my "show all" option. If the change would have been those function been removed I probably wouldn't have even bother to come here to say something about it. Sukinidachi said: I hate how they change the list too.. This is to much of a major change for me, I would have to say that most of the time these huge changes are what make websites worse or not as good as it used to be.. It should be changed back because I'm sure most kept their lists on the "Show All" option and had no problems with the loading at all.. So, instead why don't you disable accounts that have been logged off over a long period of time, like a year or so?.. or delete if you prefer.. Not going to happen. Xinil said that very clearly already. Probably also because if he starts to delete all the accounts that are inactive since one or more years he'll become unable to go around saying he has 200,000 registered users. LittleHat said: Top_Gun said: 100% signed! +1 LittleHat said: Hopefully I'll find some time to code a parser, which extracts all information from the list and then just dumps it in a better format. Especially without those thousands of tables, which really do increase pageloading time. If you really do please tell people (maybe in this thread). There will be surely thousands of users who are going to use it. I know I will definitely do. And to think that a new server was even added recently... Seriously, this is pissing me off so much. The saddest thing is probably the fact that Xinil didn't even bothered to ask about the users' opinion. I didn't like the recent change in the layout, it was just stupid and DID improve the load on the server imo, but in the end it was just a layout change, I said I didn't like it and then shut up, and downloaded and add-on (stylish) to change it back to how it was and that was it for me. But we're talking about functionality here. When changes have been done to the Anime DB Guidelines the mods payed attention to not remove Dragon Ball Z (U.S.) "due its significant member count". Which is only one stupid title in people's list (I'm sure that it was appreciated that the title was left and I'm not saying anything here against this decision). They didn't remove it because lots of people had it in their lists. And now you're going to remove one of the main features of the site despite lots and lots of people using it without even asking or at the very least inform previously of bringing such a great change when there are plenty of less intrusive solutions? Again, we're talking about functionality here. Not the way a website appears, nor a title in a list. It's functionality. I would have liked to have some more consideration before doing something like this. |
LoxarisJun 13, 2010 4:17 AM
 ------------------------ Database Guidelines Denials: anime | manga Modifications: anime | manga ----------------------------------- |
| And to think that one of the main reasons I migrated here from animeplanet was to avoid pagination.... |
| So ok, look at my dilemma. I watched over 200 anime. Way over. However when I click "Completed" it only shows up to... Full Metal Panic, which is the anime 200. WHERE ARE THE REST? I even blocked my header to look for the pagination, it's not there. Either you make it clear or don't make it at all. |
 Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
ladyxzeus said: So ok, look at my dilemma. I watched over 200 anime. Way over. However when I click "Completed" it only shows up to... Full Metal Panic, which is the anime 200. WHERE ARE THE REST? I even blocked my header to look for the pagination, it's not there. Either you make it clear or don't make it at all. There should be a link like "Next page" or so, thats the idea behind the update. |
Music is about enjoying sound~
| You know, this is sad. Usually we, the users, are the ones who add new info like character's voice actors, character's images, series that weren't on the database and many other things. I have done that in the past, and I was proud of my anonymous contribution to this site. But right now we, the users, are being ignored, and I'm feeling that the company running this site doesn't care about us. That's the sad point here, but there's nothing we can do about it. |
 |
Luppi said: ladyxzeus said: So ok, look at my dilemma. I watched over 200 anime. Way over. However when I click "Completed" it only shows up to... Full Metal Panic, which is the anime 200. WHERE ARE THE REST? I even blocked my header to look for the pagination, it's not there. Either you make it clear or don't make it at all. There should be a link like "Next page" or so, thats the idea behind the update. Well, there is not. I am too stupid to see it. |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
ladyxzeus said: There was none on mine either, so I changed it to a default one temporarily...Luppi said: ladyxzeus said: So ok, look at my dilemma. I watched over 200 anime. Way over. However when I click "Completed" it only shows up to... Full Metal Panic, which is the anime 200. WHERE ARE THE REST? I even blocked my header to look for the pagination, it's not there. Either you make it clear or don't make it at all. There should be a link like "Next page" or so, thats the idea behind the update. Well, there is not. I am too stupid to see it. |
llamaben said: ladyxzeus said: There was none on mine either, so I changed it to a default one temporarily...Luppi said: ladyxzeus said: So ok, look at my dilemma. I watched over 200 anime. Way over. However when I click "Completed" it only shows up to... Full Metal Panic, which is the anime 200. WHERE ARE THE REST? I even blocked my header to look for the pagination, it's not there. Either you make it clear or don't make it at all. There should be a link like "Next page" or so, thats the idea behind the update. Well, there is not. I am too stupid to see it. Oh I didn't see Xinil edited his first post, so the problem is something with the header or the CSS. Don't exactly know what you could do then. |
jacobpaige said: basically its sloppy programing being covered up by eliminating features people actually care about instead of streamlining the backend and delivery systems or eliminating features most people probably wouldn't even miss. Absolutely spot on. The way list is transmitted to browser is some mid 90s style as if no one at MAL development ever heard of elementary things like JSON. 401.97 KB for my list which is only 138 entries!!?? 7708 lines of unoptimized HTML code for a data set this small shows a very poorly designed backend. Why not do what other websites do when struggling with large data sets downloaded into browser? There are myriads of frameworks out there which do this. Generate a small HTML template that describes the overall layout (what would one entry look like) and then expand it and fill it out with JSON taken from server. This offloads both backend processing and bandwidth. JSON is minuscule in its nature so even fairly large datasets are not a problem for bandwidth. Not generating massive HTML on the server will slightly decrease script's memory consumption. Finally, only data required is loaded as necessary so you can present user with an overall presentation with basic detail and then call for extra info as user requests which is not that much. I can see relying on frontend (user's browser) processing for filling out the layout with could be a potential problem. Especially extra XHR requests for additional data (you still don't want to transmit unnecessary data even through optimized json). MAL then needs to find out exactly what sections of the list are most important. To do this, enable all the features first in the "more" section and then have backend record which parts of it users click on more often so after some period of time of collecting this info, take out what users used the least. Not enough performance improvement still? Optimize even more. There are toolkits that watch browser's position on the page so load only the data necessary for those rows the browser's scroll bar is at + some pre-fetching for nearest up and down. This too is pagination but one that user does not notice There are many many solutions developed by businesses who have large data sets and struggle with bandwidth and server costs. Just need to research a little. And there are many loyal visitors with programming knowledge who I am sure would be happy to assist, just need to ask. |
tmthJun 13, 2010 6:42 AM
Luppi said: llamaben said: ladyxzeus said: There was none on mine either, so I changed it to a default one temporarily...Luppi said: ladyxzeus said: So ok, look at my dilemma. I watched over 200 anime. Way over. However when I click "Completed" it only shows up to... Full Metal Panic, which is the anime 200. WHERE ARE THE REST? I even blocked my header to look for the pagination, it's not there. Either you make it clear or don't make it at all. There should be a link like "Next page" or so, thats the idea behind the update. Well, there is not. I am too stupid to see it. Oh I didn't see Xinil edited his first post, so the problem is something with the header or the CSS. Don't exactly know what you could do then. My css is simple, but is the best I can do. No way I'm changing it. Get me a second page like RIGHT NOW. This is the kind of shit I can't stand. Change things around, but CHANGE THEM RIGHT. Dammit. |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
| I'd just like to say that the show all feature is a critical component to my experience on MAL. Realistically speaking I don't think there are any users who could possibly be happy with it's removal, and furthermore I feel that there is a good possiblity that ***seperating the list into pages and removing "show all" will increase server demand*** For example, if I want to observe my list or make some changes I open my list and I can access and update everything from one page throughout the entire day. Without the show all feature, and seperating it into pages I will have to continually switch back and forth through different pages and categories to find what I want, demanding information from the server every single time. Even if I'm wrong about this, removing the biggest feature which draws people to MAL (the ability see a complete list of all the anime they've viewed) can't be a good business decission no matter how much bandwidth it saves. |
| I thought what i'd do was your mother |
| ok guys instead of complaining any more i have a suggestion. since you're worried about server issues and stuff why not make something like this? image link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/617821/images/mal.jpg live example: http://apps.misty-stix.com/mal/ this way, its paginated and you have the summary at the bottom. there's a column for the status. by clicking on the status link you get a filtered list of anime by type. comments and suggestions are welcome. |
| I'm sure this is not the first time someone asked for this, but is it possible - for design purposes - if you put the pagination links somewhere other than .header_title? Or is there a workaround to have header images for each list category AND having the links inside the class .header_title? |
 |
| Ok, I understand that some people have insanely long lists that they don't feel that they need to see every time they click on the list. But I really did like the "Show All" and I hope that it will be an option on the top bar, because my list isn't very long, and sometimes I just like to see the list in its entirety (That's one of the things I liked about the site) |
Onibokusu said: paperkitten said: If xinil doesn't revert we can't do anything about it. Except use another anime list service. Well, anyone can suggest something similar to the old MAL with the "Show all", the five categories and the function to update episode by episode as I watch? Looks like things ain't going to improve around here. |
| for some reason my manga list paginates even though i only have 5 entries BWAHAHA! |
| Fiction Responsibly |
| Yeah, switching between the categories and loading pages over and over again while updating the list is sooo annoying :/ I just want 'Show All' option back... |
| Pagination ok, removing show all / grand total, not so much... |
 |
| i like this fix, it is faster and doesn't lag my comp but i wanna show the world how huge my list is because i need to compensate Somehow! it makes me feel like a big man! lol |
Just_AugosJun 13, 2010 7:51 AM
| Fiction Responsibly |
More topics from this board
» List Title Toggle: Main Title, English, and more ( 1 2 3 )Kineta - Nov 10, 2021 |
110 |
by aftershinecar
»»
8 hours ago |
|
» [Challenge] You Should Read This Manga 2024 ( 1 2 3 4 5 )Kineta - Feb 23 |
236 |
by shadowZ390
»»
May 19, 10:11 AM |
|
» Try MAL's New Mobile Site! ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Xinil - Feb 15, 2015 |
424 |
by nothing_ness
»»
May 5, 8:51 PM |
|
» Moderators Wanted! Accepting applications for all positionsKineta - Apr 26 |
0 |
by Kineta
»»
Apr 26, 6:46 PM |
|
» Planned 5hr Maintenance, Thursday April 25 @ 1am-6am PTKineta - Apr 22 |
0 |
by Kineta
»»
Apr 22, 8:10 PM |