Forum SettingsEpisode Information
Forums
Sword Art Online (light novel)
Available on Manga Store
New
Apr 14, 2022 7:57 PM
#1
Original Denjin
Offline
Nov 2008
181
Kirito’s “carry the burden of the lives we ‘stole’” Dilemma

I bring this up, because I’m currently reading the light novels, and came across when he brought this up for a second time in this arc. (what he does in the light novels) Now of course I saw the whole anime, but I remember that Kirito brought it up in this season as well.

Anything that really bothers me, is that even though that what he did was clearly an act of self-defense (during the whole Laughing Coffin raid, where he killed two of their members when THEY ambushed THEM), he considers those lives stolen, and says that he must carry the burden for the lives that he “stole”. What?

He even did the same thing with that Kurudel guy in the first season episode 10 where he was attacking Asuna and Kirito, again, killed him in self-defense.


Now as much as I can relate to Kirito, in several different ways, I can’t relate to him there. and of course, for those who saw the last season of war of underworld.
and if you haven’t seen it, let’s just say that it very much validates my concerns about that whole “carrying the burden” Philosophy that Kirito was espousing.

Or am I missing something here? Because that’s a very mentally unhealthy way of dealing with something that you were clearly not at fault for. I know that this is a story and these are fictional characters and all, and of course they will have flaws which makes them interesting, but this seems to be a little bit extreme to me. But like I said, I may be missing something, and either way please let me know.

Mod Edit: Added spoiler tags; please hide plot details.
Cosplay_JoeApr 15, 2022 7:15 AM
Apr 14, 2022 8:27 PM
#2

Online
Jul 2015
11184
That arc was the point, where SAO was probably at all time low.
His "moral dilemma" and coping with it just seems so forced and cringy. Nobody cared about that, especially since Kiroto did nothing wrong at all, so him felling for basically no reason was just a chore to watch.

And I won't even mention Government asking 16 yo gamer to singlehandedly investigate murder case, which is just wtf. I'm better than that.
PiromyslApr 14, 2022 9:11 PM

Apr 14, 2022 8:57 PM
#3

Offline
Jan 2021
1719
I don't think self-defense was the point here. If you've killed somebody, the trauma and guilt is going to stay with you. The way Kirito decided to cope with it was questionable, but that's the way his character is written.
As for the thing with Sinon, I think that was just thrown in to show how much of an outcast she is, being rejected by classmates and teachers alike. Not very subtle, but it gets the point across.
Apr 14, 2022 9:16 PM
#4
Original Denjin
Offline
Nov 2008
181
certifiedbinger said:
I don't think self-defense was the point here. If you've killed somebody, the trauma and guilt is going to stay with you. The way Kirito decided to cope with it was questionable, but that's the way his character is written.
As for the thing with Sinon, I think that was just thrown in to show how much of an outcast she is, being rejected by classmates and teachers alike. Not very subtle, but it gets the point across.

Oh I understand about how much of an outcast Sinon was, I was just saying that to illustrate that Kirito wasn’t coming across as being very sensible, or so I thought at the time.
And as for the first thing you said, yes, the actually makes a lot of sense. And since I’ve never had to being in a position to kill anyone in self-defense or anything, I honestly wouldn’t know just how much trauma and guilt you can feel, even if it IS in self-defense. And I don’t know where you’re from, but I live in America, where we see stories of murder and self-defense constantly, almost every day at times. And I was having thoughts about that before, that maybe because of that I’m too inundated with that reality on the news and in our culture. I mean, I haven’t watched the news that much at all for a while now, but still the reality and perceived need to defend yourself, is something that we’re all too familiar with here in the states.
Apr 14, 2022 9:51 PM
#5

Offline
Oct 2020
1632
I've seen many shows and even experienced myself and that's just basic trauma. For a 15 years old kid killing somebody creates a guilt within, and being a victim of something like SAO incident and again going through mental breakdowns several times, also watching his friends die one after another in front of him, and after that Johnny Black attack, it's just too much for someone, needless to say it's just a teenager. And the guilt of not being able to save The Moonlit Black cats and losing Eugeo were the biggest reasons for Kirito to go through some insane deep shit happened in that Alicization WoU Episode just before he woke up.
Please watch Sword Art Online Progressive, it's the peak of SAO.
Apr 14, 2022 10:22 PM
#6
Offline
Jan 2021
2331
I think the problem with Kirito is because he wanted to kill them. He was angry so he wanted to hurt them. While self defense is different and acceptable, his mindset hungered to kill when he knew he could arrest them.

The trauma makes sense because he forced himself to forget to cope while enacting Ego-Defense Mechanisms. With death gun reminding him of his sins he had a panic attack. He hasn’t had the actual experience of dying again. Now he is re-confronted with the sense of death.

The way that the author handled Kirito and Sinon’s trauma was very good in my opinion, especially Sinon.
The right mindset when watching an anime is hoping that it will break your top 10
Apr 15, 2022 2:07 AM
#7

Offline
Jul 2021
473
official_brown said:
I think the problem with Kirito is because he wanted to kill them. He was angry so he wanted to hurt them. While self defense is different and acceptable, his mindset hungered to kill when he knew he could arrest them.

The trauma makes sense because he forced himself to forget to cope while enacting Ego-Defense Mechanisms. With death gun reminding him of his sins he had a panic attack. He hasn’t had the actual experience of dying again. Now he is re-confronted with the sense of death.

The way that the author handled Kirito and Sinon’s trauma was very good in my opinion, especially Sinon.

Very true. Although, one would think that stopping an armed robber that had already shot one person would make you a hero, yet even her mom seemed to reject her actions at the moment. I guess that has to do with cultural sensibilities only some people have, which stems from their lack of perspective and moral knowledge and experience (kids bullying her), but still there's some people who do have some backbone, and that makes more sense towards the end when the cashier woman shows up with her daughter and reminds shion of the lives she saved.

It is different with kirito since, like you said, he killed those guys out of rage, and in hindsight, it looks to him like, with the power he had, he could have restrained them and spared their lives. I wholeheartedly disagree, but I can understand how an 18 y/o japanese kid could think that. The fact is that their lives were forfeit the moment they put others' in jeopardy. He didn't have the power to stop people from being how they were and pathologically hurting others. And like the nurse said, and like he said to shion himself, he has the right to think about those who he saved.

It really resembles police shooting people who leave them no option (suicide by cop), yet it affects the cop in such a way that they need counseling to come to terms with what they've done even though it's not necessarily their fault. It show's that the struggle is real and hard to overcome even for people who's job is to protect the innocent even if it means stopping a life.

Anyways, the way the author managed the plot in this case and many others is what separates SAO from all of the other trashy game fantasy anime.
Apr 15, 2022 10:58 AM
#8
Original Denjin
Offline
Nov 2008
181
IhnalakoKaina said:
official_brown said:
I think the problem with Kirito is because he wanted to kill them. He was angry so he wanted to hurt them. While self defense is different and acceptable, his mindset hungered to kill when he knew he could arrest them.

The trauma makes sense because he forced himself to forget to cope while enacting Ego-Defense Mechanisms. With death gun reminding him of his sins he had a panic attack. He hasn’t had the actual experience of dying again. Now he is re-confronted with the sense of death.

The way that the author handled Kirito and Sinon’s trauma was very good in my opinion, especially Sinon.

Very true. Although, one would think that stopping an armed robber that had already shot one person would make you a hero, yet even her mom seemed to reject her actions at the moment. I guess that has to do with cultural sensibilities only some people have, which stems from their lack of perspective and moral knowledge and experience (kids bullying her), but still there's some people who do have some backbone, and that makes more sense towards the end when the cashier woman shows up with her daughter and reminds shion of the lives she saved.

It is different with kirito since, like you said, he killed those guys out of rage, and in hindsight, it looks to him like, with the power he had, he could have restrained them and spared their lives. I wholeheartedly disagree, but I can understand how an 18 y/o japanese kid could think that. The fact is that their lives were forfeit the moment they put others' in jeopardy. He didn't have the power to stop people from being how they were and pathologically hurting others. And like the nurse said, and like he said to shion himself, he has the right to think about those who he saved.

It really resembles police shooting people who leave them no option (suicide by cop), yet it affects the cop in such a way that they need counseling to come to terms with what they've done even though it's not necessarily their fault. It show's that the struggle is real and hard to overcome even for people who's job is to protect the innocent even if it means stopping a life.

Anyways, the way the author managed the plot in this case and many others is what separates SAO from all of the other trashy game fantasy anime.

OK, I think this is the most reasonable way to think about this. because while yes, self-defense is important and as Nurse Aki said to Kirito, who in turn said it to Sinon, to “Think about the lives you saved”. But on the other hand, even doing that has a huge psychological effect on the person doing the defending. I remember actually hearing about soldiers in war suffering from PTSD, even though that it was their sworn duty to kill enemy combatants for their country. So yeah, I guess I forgot about that aspect of it, when I was so adamant about the whole “self-defense” aspect of Kirito’s dilemma.
Cosplay_JoeApr 15, 2022 11:18 AM
Apr 18, 2022 6:27 PM
#9
Offline
Jan 2019
633
Piromysl said:
That arc was the point, where SAO was probably at all time low.
His "moral dilemma" and coping with it just seems so forced and cringy. Nobody cared about that, especially since Kiroto did nothing wrong at all, so him felling for basically no reason was just a chore to watch.

And I won't even mention Government asking 16 yo gamer to singlehandedly investigate murder case, which is just wtf. I'm better than that.

Agreed. Definitely felt cringe and forced. I adore kirito but at this point idk what to make of him and Sao...
May 13, 2022 7:25 PM
Original Denjin
Offline
Nov 2008
181
You know what? I know what I said in my previous post on this thread, but now I lean much more in favor of them doing what they did. Yes, taking the lives of others is no joke, but even with the psychological effect imagine how much more of a psychological effect it would’ve had if they would’ve just done nothing and let these people take even more lives themselves. It would have been even worse for their sake in my opinion .

So with all due respect to people who are talking about the psychological effect about this, I definitely say that both Kirito and Sinon did the right thing and they should, as nurse Aki said, “think about the lives they saved“.

More topics from this board

Poll: » Best SAO girl?

Kazu-chan-san - Mar 20, 2023

15 by ItsAziz »»
Apr 7, 4:06 AM

» Question about Alice

quietkun27 - Mar 24

15 by Superninjaboy2 »»
Mar 25, 1:04 AM

Poll: » Sword Art Online: Alicization - War of Underworld 2nd Season Episode 11 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )

tsubasalover - Sep 19, 2020

320 by Anayan_Kashyap »»
Jan 15, 7:46 AM

Poll: » Sword Art Online: Alicization - War of Underworld 2nd Season Episode 5 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 )

Kaiseki - Aug 8, 2020

209 by razisgosu »»
Jan 13, 9:22 PM

Poll: » Sword Art Online: Alicization - War of Underworld 2nd Season Episode 9 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )

tsubasalover - Sep 5, 2020

154 by White_Alice »»
Jan 12, 11:44 PM

Preview MangaManga Store

It’s time to ditch the text file.
Keep track of your anime easily by creating your own list.
Sign Up Login