Zymf said: logic340 said: Interesting second choice. Do you think it has a lot of "potential"?it was my second choice so I'm quite happy. Thank you for the kind words. I hope to use it to its fullest potential. yurkin said: I agree. The occult egg is a good role to pressure early in the game.vote: wyndz Thought i'll vote for the one who got the occult egg as rvs, and here is it. ;3 Now going to sleep. Good night y'll... Vote: WyNdZ Did you get the role that you want? Where did you place it on the list and why? Who is the confirmed town? RE1031 said: Meh, I don't think it's really worth the hazzle to be honest. Why would the mafia even lie about their list when it's much easier to just talk your way out of it. In other words, the mafia wouldn't feel pressured by that kind of "massclaim".Theoretically if we were to reveal our lists, we should be able to force everyone to tell the truth or otherwise face discrepancy and narrow down who's lying, but might not be worth or even allowed... And also, I think we will get pretty much the same information by just asking people "Did you get the role you want and why did you place it there on your list?" But if people wanna do it that way anyways, I of course don't mind sharing my list. I still dont agree on being told wh the town aligned role is this early on, i do like the question of asking where that role was on his list tho. |
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logic340 said: Zymf said: Mason was one of my favorite roles as I like talking through things with others and I felt it was close to that role. I do think it has some potential to help me figure people out this game. I've seen it used in the hands of town (Suzune) and scum (Jackrito). I am hoping that I will be able to identify townies invite them to my club and work with them to ensnare the mafia.Interesting second choice. Do you think it has a lot of "potential"? I put it at the bottom of my list because i dislike that role and i would rather now have it at all if i had a choice. I wouldsay tho it has alot of potential for both alignments. |
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Ruu said: @Zymf why do you think Amnesiac is a townish role? Just curious... Some stuff that caught my attention: - Rosie won't get NK'd if she is town. - Zymf voted for a person that already had two votes. And I like it (weird I know because I usually think of this as scummy but I learned from experience that it is not ) - logic is being logic but I know I need to be careful to avoid getting pocket by him >_> - Scum wouldn't lead a Rosie lynch but again Rosie could be scum xD nothing more to say for now... If shes town there is a high chance she will because later in the game if not now she will be used as a way to caatch scum. lol anyone can lead any lynch at any time always keep that in mind. I need to stop pocketing people in general |
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Crossbell said: Shinichi said: vote:rosie feel like ur role and character are a good start for pressure. A couple of questions, here: 1. How on earth is Rosie's role a good start for pressure? 2. Doesn't stating that your vote is for pressure.. remove the fact that it is a pressure vote? I'm confused as to what you're trying to accomplish here. Shinichi said: Don't answer this before Rosie responds, but I want to hear how her response gives you any insight on her alignment.I know her role, i just wanna see how she reacts to the pressure being the role she is thats all. Rosie said: Why are you voting for someone who is not in the game?anyways Vote:Grapefruit21 One day I'll get him >:3c I am kind of nervous about the people asking Wyndz about who the confirmed townie is. In my mind, the best way to use that sort of role (one random cop check on a townie) is to reveal who it is when that townie gets pressured or is run up, so that we can use that information to catch overeager scum on the wagon. RE and Zymf trying to fish that information out of Wyndz even before they've posted feels like an attempt to figure out who a confirmed townie is so that they don't have to pressure them, and it doesn't sit well with me. Vote RE1031 Hi. 1. Why do you want to fish the confirmed townie information out of Wyndz, even before they have even posted? 2. All of your posts are about mechanics so far. When can I expect you to get down and dirty with behavioral analysis? I mean depending on how she feels best to use it and if shes ok being a matyr could determine if shes town/scum. What else is the vote if not pressure in the first place lol. People that decide to avoid putting there vote on her or the way people react to said vote plus how she reacts to it could determine alot of stuff. The same way as pressuring the occult role. |
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Crossbell said: Also - due to the nature of this setup, I recognize that mechanics discussion can be somewhat useful, but can we please refrain from it at least for the first Day or so? Mechanics optimization is such an easy topic for scum to discuss because it's purely logical and rational, which is something scum can fake quite easily. I don't want to spend the entire Day bogged down in mechanics optimization and have a bunch of posts that talk about the mechanics but nothing that actually helps us find the bad guys. People always do it, like the go through game starter, who even mentioned using peoples lists? If i recall it was rei. |
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| Lets just ignore the idea of lists or anything that has to do with mechanics. If that's all said and done the best place to start looking at are the peoples reasons for discredting and crediting the voting of wyz. Cause from the way i see it the train is most likely consisting of town, which is why im worried that ruu is trying to discredit it like its a scum aligned move. |
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logic340 said: No idea! All roles are neutral in reality, so I don't really have a reason to really think of them.Why are you scum no matter what? This is my interpretation of who would want what roles not where they ended up. What is your interpretation? Which roles do you think town and scum would be shooting for? Though, in all honesty, the neighboring role really is the most scummy to me. That role would be perfect for scum to pocket another player. |
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Crossbell said: Rosie said: Why are you voting for someone who is not in the game?anyways Vote:Grapefruit21 One day I'll get him >:3c Oh? You don't know about my hunt for the Greatest Grapefruit? This hunt, that has pledged me since my wee first games here? |
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Oyasumi_Rosie said: yurkin said: Idk... Logic is good at pocketing people as scum, and the neighboring ablity makes that even easier...Hey hey logic :3 the duckling egg did go to its best possible owner. Meta + role shouldnt soloely define his alignment Behaviorly hes acting pretty townish, but it could also just be pocketing my reasoning on why wyz shouldnt out the revealed townie. |
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Oyasumi_Rosie said: logic340 said: No idea! All roles are neutral in reality, so I don't really have a reason to really think of them.Why are you scum no matter what? This is my interpretation of who would want what roles not where they ended up. What is your interpretation? Which roles do you think town and scum would be shooting for? Though, in all honesty, the neighboring role really is the most scummy to me. That role would be perfect for scum to pocket another player. Lol all the roles are revealed there is literally no point to look into what role could be scummy or town aligned. Only thing i can think of his someone making a list That explians the best town and mafia use of each role. |
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Shinichi said: Perhaps throwing the vote out nakedly could help you garner even more reactions? I'm just confused as why you vote then say "this vote is for pressure" since that pressure vote instantly loses all meaning.What else is the vote if not pressure in the first place lol. Shinichi said: I'm not putting my vote on her, at least for now. How does that determine anything?People that decide to avoid putting there vote on her or the way people react to said vote plus how she reacts to it could determine alot of stuff. The same way as pressuring the occult role. Shinichi said: How is logic acting behaviorally townie? Quote posts.Behaviorly hes acting pretty townish, but it could also just be pocketing my reasoning on why wyz shouldnt out the revealed townie. |
Crossbell said: Shinichi said: Perhaps throwing the vote out nakedly could help you garner even more reactions? I'm just confused as why you vote then say "this vote is for pressure" since that pressure vote instantly loses all meaning.What else is the vote if not pressure in the first place lol. Shinichi said: I'm not putting my vote on her, at least for now. How does that determine anything?People that decide to avoid putting there vote on her or the way people react to said vote plus how she reacts to it could determine alot of stuff. The same way as pressuring the occult role. Shinichi said: How is logic acting behaviorally townie? Quote posts.Behaviorly hes acting pretty townish, but it could also just be pocketing my reasoning on why wyz shouldnt out the revealed townie. Was mainly so people didnt confuse it as an rvs vote, which i knew people would question it. Also a naked vote would be considered scummy well maybe not so much during the rvs phase >_> I would say its a pretty neutral/town response 77 Feels like a natural town response from logic on the topic of how important a town life is when weighing out their ability. 47 Even though its mechanics talk I feel like as town you should put a lot of thought into this, people that rushed the question are more likely to be scum. |
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🍫 Vote Count 1.1 🍫 🔥 🐥 WyNdZ 🐥 🔥 (3): 🐰 yurkin, wen294, Zymf 🐰 🐣 Oyasumi_Rosie 🐣 (1): 🐰 Shinichi-kun 🐰 🐣 Shinichi-kun 🐣 (1): 🐰 Ruu 🐰 🐣 melanoid 🐣 (1): 🐰 logic340 🐰 🐣 logic340 🐣 (1): 🐰 Oyasumi_Rosie 🐰 🐣 RE1031 🐣 (1): 🐰 Crossbell 🐰 🌱 Not Voting 🌱 AbuHumaid, RE1031, melanoid, WyNdZ 🐤 Role Index 🐤 >>Day 1 Timer<< |
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Crossbell said: I am kind of nervous about the people asking Wyndz about who the confirmed townie is. In my mind, the best way to use that sort of role (one random cop check on a townie) is to reveal who it is when that townie gets pressured or is run up, so that we can use that information to catch overeager scum on the wagon. RE and Zymf trying to fish that information out of Wyndz even before they've posted feels like an attempt to figure out who a confirmed townie is so that they don't have to pressure them, and it doesn't sit well with me. Vote RE1031 Hi. 1. Why do you want to fish the confirmed townie information out of Wyndz, even before they have even posted? 2. All of your posts are about mechanics so far. When can I expect you to get down and dirty with behavioral analysis? Let's say Wyndz is town - if he gets night killed before revealing who the confirmed townie is, then we may waste future phases debating whether that townie is scum or not, and that would be annoying. Yeah it's a slim possibility, but why hold off on revealing information we want to learn eventually? I suppose if they're any of the strong power roles, it's a dangerous situation, but it doesn't exactly change anything since mafia would be wanting to get rid of the stronger power roles from the start. And if he's not town (whether third party or mafia) - I kind of doubt he would protect his own teammate by claiming they're the confirmed townie. If we caught the "confirmed" townie in a lynch or in a suspicious night action, that'd be two mafia down the drain. If he's third party, well, idk the win condition so I can't say if there's any use in lying about the name they received. Mechanics, shamefully so, are more reliable to me than behavior. Especially in early game. But right now, I'll leave a vote on vote: wen294 I've given some thought to the whole revealing the draft list idea, and it's actually not worth. You can't tell which side is going to pick what, especially since players have their own ideas on what are desirable roles. Zymf and Logic said the Bomb seem like scum options, but that was my second choice (after Watcher), and it was only second because should I be lynched, I wouldn't want the responsibility of having to choose a player off my lynch list to kill. As for my vote, it's a hunch. Nothing much more to it right now. I doubt I'm right, but the entering vote, #34, (voting for Wyndz cause of similar names) seems kinda like a scum excuse. That and supporting my idea (a bit hypocritical, but meh) without offering any reason to agree is not something I'd do as town. What's the benefit of this gimmick? Would we actually manage to catch scum this way? There's no substance, just blind agreement. edit: oops, wrong link |
REMay 14, 2017 7:06 PM
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
Shinichi-Kun said: Ruu said: @Zymf why do you think Amnesiac is a townish role? Just curious... Some stuff that caught my attention: - Rosie won't get NK'd if she is town. - Zymf voted for a person that already had two votes. And I like it (weird I know because I usually think of this as scummy but I learned from experience that it is not ) - logic is being logic but I know I need to be careful to avoid getting pocket by him >_> - Scum wouldn't lead a Rosie lynch but again Rosie could be scum xD nothing more to say for now... If shes town there is a high chance she will because later in the game if not now she will be used as a way to caatch scum. lol anyone can lead any lynch at any time always keep that in mind. I need to stop pocketing people in general Shin... are you even reading the role descriptions? xD If they NK'd her the one making the kill will die! (50% chance but still a very high one) Also nobody wants to be a martyr, self preservation goes for town and mafia. And she could still be bluffing saying she is okay dying hoping that by saying that people will townread her. @Crossbell what I meant to say was that its NAI - creating 3-votes trains early on can be good and it doesn't mean the person is scummy for joining the train. Also I want to see how Wy reacts and if the other players go along, relax... you can get a lot of reads from a simple rvs train. My vote on Shin was because I didn't like that the Amnesiac's first vote is for someone with a powerful pr. It didn't set well with me. I don't think he even read the op which strikes me as odd... Is a gut feeling for now but I'm good with my vote atm. I haven't found anyone more scummy. I agree with Logic that if Wy is mafia he could confirmed as town one of their scum buddies, we need to be careful, wait and see how things unfold. I'm okay with Wy strategy concerning their role. |
| @wyndz ur role is quite powerful if used correctly so plz dont just randomly reveal who u know is town aligned. |
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WyNdZ said: Ah man I got a boring role. I basically get some information and then become a powerless role. It's a useful role no doubt but not one that suits my play style. Haha well isn't this interesting. I've got 3 votes already, I assume this is to pressure me to reveal who is the confirmed town. I'll reveal it after some time, most probably within this phase and definitely before the end of the first night so there's no chance of me dying with the information. I think the town can get some useful information from seeing the interactions of the confirmed townie with the other players hence my reasons for delaying the reveal a bit. Shinichi-Kun said: dont think its that neccesary for him to tell us yet, plus if hes scum it prob be worse if he tells us now. Rather wait a couple of phases I agree that I should wait for some time but I disagree that I should wait a couple phases. If I get killed without revealing the information I'll basically have failed as my role. That's my line....I don't really see the similarity other than starting with 'w' logic340 said: I don't think it's necessary at this point either. If he's mafia he could just be lying to clear a buddy ave if he's town it's probably better to wait since he could save the person from being lynched and also gauge others behavior towards said player. In the end it's up to him to choose when and how he reveals. I agree, nice logic. I guess your username suits you. If u get killed without revealing your results doesnt change much, also i feel like it be a waste to kill you they're plenty of other roles i think are scarier to keep alive that is if scum havent got those roles. Oh ya that is interesting cause u know when people vote the confirmed town. |
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Ruu said: Shinichi-Kun said: If shes town there is a high chance she will because later in the game if not now she will be used as a way to caatch scum. lol anyone can lead any lynch at any time always keep that in mind. I need to stop pocketing people in general Shin... are you even reading the role descriptions? xD If they NK'd her the one making the kill will die! (50% chance but still a very high one) Also nobody wants to be a martyr, self preservation goes for town and mafia. And she could still be bluffing saying she is okay dying hoping that by saying that people will townread her. @Crossbell what I meant to say was that its NAI - creating 3-votes trains early on can be good and it doesn't mean the person is scummy for joining the train. Also I want to see how Wy reacts and if the other players go along, relax... you can get a lot of reads from a simple rvs train. My vote on Shin was because I didn't like that the Amnesiac's first vote is for someone with a powerful pr. It didn't set well with me. I don't think he even read the op which strikes me as odd... Is a gut feeling for now but I'm good with my vote atm. I haven't found anyone more scummy. I agree with Logic that if Wy is mafia he could confirmed as town one of their scum buddies, we need to be careful, wait and see how things unfold. I'm okay with Wy strategy concerning their role. If shes scum aligned the longer she stays alive the higher chance the role could be played by a scum aligned player lol and 50% chance is a risk i would be willing to take later in the game. Ur train isnt simple tho its minor information fishing that we really dont need right now. Its ok you can keep your vote on me for now, and im used to bomb roles only effecting lynches not NK's so excue me for not noticing. |
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🍫 Vote Count 1.2 🍫 🔥 🐥 WyNdZ 🐥 🔥 (3): 🐰 yurkin, wen294, Zymf 🐰 🐣 Oyasumi_Rosie 🐣 (1): 🐰 Shinichi-kun 🐰 🐣 Shinichi-kun 🐣 (1): 🐰 Ruu 🐰 🐣 melanoid 🐣 (1): 🐰 logic340 🐰 🐣 logic340 🐣 (1): 🐰 Oyasumi_Rosie 🐰 🐣 RE1031 🐣 (1): 🐰 Crossbell 🐰 🐣 wen294 🐣 (1): 🐰 RE1031 🐰 🐣 Ruu 🐣 (1): 🐰 WyNdZ 🐰 🌱 Not Voting 🌱 AbuHumaid, melanoid 🐤 Role Index 🐤 >>Day 1 Timer<< |
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| @wyndz why is it your 3rd choice then lol? Edit nvm u answer that |
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Thank you, I have some experience but I don't think I can consider myself good with this game orz I've read page 1 and skimmed page 2 and 3. I will read it all properly when I get back home later. Unfortunately game started on a rare day that I get to be busy ;-; |
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Ruu said: I agree with Logic that if Wy is mafia he could confirmed as town one of their scum buddies, we need to be careful, wait and see how things unfold. I'm okay with Wy strategy concerning their role. This risk holds true if the person we are about to lynch ends up being revealed as the confirmed townie. Cause now we have the what if that comes into play which is this. What if wy lied just to protect a scum buddy its something ill def keep an eye on. |
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| Your list is it in order of strength or usefulness to town because what i consider Pr is different than what u choose so im assuming you look at the usefulness differently? |
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Crossbell said: I am kind of nervous about the people asking Wyndz about who the confirmed townie is. In my mind, the best way to use that sort of role (one random cop check on a townie) is to reveal who it is when that townie gets pressured or is run up, so that we can use that information to catch overeager scum on the wagon. RE and Zymf trying to fish that information out of Wyndz even before they've posted feels like an attempt to figure out who a confirmed townie is so that they don't have to pressure them, and it doesn't sit well with me. Also, can you expand on this? Do you mean that it's something scummy to do, or something lazy? |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
Melanoid said: Thank you, I have some experience but I don't think I can consider myself good with this game orz I've read page 1 and skimmed page 2 and 3. I will read it all properly when I get back home later. Unfortunately game started on a rare day that I get to be busy ;-; what kind of experience? Also just dont lurk phase is 48 hours :D |
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Shinichi said: Why are you so concerned about how the post would be perceived?Was mainly so people didnt confuse it as an rvs vote, which i knew people would question it. Shinichi said: Same here. Why do you care that you would be considered scummy?Also a naked vote would be considered scummy well maybe not so much during the rvs phase >_> Shinichi said: Do you know of anyone who would have "rushed" the question and would be more likely to be scum, according to you?Even though its mechanics talk I feel like as town you should put a lot of thought into this, people that rushed the question are more likely to be scum. As for the stuff on logic, thanks. I'll take a look at it tomorrow. --- RE1031 said: Let's say Wyndz is town - if he gets night killed before revealing who the confirmed townie is, then we may waste future phases debating whether that townie is scum or not, and that would be annoying. Yeah it's a slim possibility, but why hold off on revealing information we want to learn eventually? It would indeed be annoying, which is why I think that Wyndz should reveal his target probably during the Night/close to Night deadline or when that person is run up. It just felt strange that IMMEDIATELY (on post 19) you wanted Wyndz to reveal his target. Like, we aren't even out of the opening phases yet and you posted that. I'm interested as to why you were so eager to know, so early in the game. |
Ruu said: Yep, that's the stance I take with early wagons - more often than not I support them because there's always at least one scum amongst a wagon with, say, five players in it. NAI is the right word for it, I think.@Crossbell what I meant to say was that its NAI - creating 3-votes trains early on can be good and it doesn't mean the person is scummy for joining the train. Also I want to see how Wy reacts and if the other players go along, relax... you can get a lot of reads from a simple rvs train. I'm liking what Wyndz is posting so far? His posts feel kind of Lack of Guile where he's sort of focused on his role, but it makes sense for him to do so if he's town because he doesn't have any sort of special ability. RE1031 said: It's something that fulfills a scum agenda. If the scum know who the confirmed town is, right off the bat, then they won't pressure/vote that person. However, if they don't know, then they could pressure or vote that person. If Wyndz reveals that person to be town, then we've just gained a lot of information. It's why I'm suspicious of you trying to pressure Wyndz to reveal his target immediately.Also, can you expand on this? Do you mean that it's something scummy to do, or something lazy? |
| Why am I awake at 3 AM, posting in this game. Sleep time. |
Zymf said: Below is my own personal quickly-made list of roles that I initially find the most townish and scummy. I will not give away my reasoning yet, but I encourage others to make a similar list ^^ I think it's a good place to start your analysis on other people. Townish roles: 1. Camouflaged Egg (Watcher) 2. Fullmetal Egg (Jailer) 3. Golden Egg (Lightning Rod) 9. Spooky Egg (Amnesiac) Scummy roles: 4. Explosive Egg (Bomb) 5. Occult Egg (Peeker) 7. Sparkling Egg (Reloader) 8. Royal Egg (Doublevoter) In principle this is rubbish. Scum wants watcher or jailer just so that town DOESN'T have them. Also Amnesiac is great because if scum has it you can use it on the bomb. Especially if the bomb is already scum, they'd have 2 townies dead for sure. |
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Crossbell said: Ruu said: Why is it not? I am curious to hear your reasoning.- Zymf voted for a person that already had two votes. And I like it (weird I know because I usually think of this as scummy but I learned from experience that it is not ) Three people voted for Wyndz. Do you think there could be scum between any of them? Why couldn't there be scum in them? I mean i know i'm one of them but seriously, how at this point in time would she or anyone else be able to say "no it's impossible that there's a scummy in those 3" |
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| Hey now, wyn and wen sounds pretty alike doesn't it? Also night talk is allowed. If you can be online you can post the name of the townie riiiight before phase change. That way scum won't really have a chance to react to it with NK. RE1031 said: Let's say Wyndz is town - if he gets night killed before revealing who the confirmed townie is, then we may waste future phases debating whether that townie is scum or not, and that would be annoying. Yeah it's a slim possibility, but why hold off on revealing information we want to learn eventually? I suppose if they're any of the strong power roles, it's a dangerous situation, but it doesn't exactly change anything since mafia would be wanting to get rid of the stronger power roles from the start. And if he's not town (whether third party or mafia) - I kind of doubt he would protect his own teammate by claiming they're the confirmed townie. If we caught the "confirmed" townie in a lynch or in a suspicious night action, that'd be two mafia down the drain. If he's third party, well, idk the win condition so I can't say if there's any use in lying about the name they received. Because you'd be throwing information down the drain. You just said that yourself so i'm assuming you don't want to do that? We might learn things from the behaviour of the confirmed townie and people jumping on the confirmed townie. All he has to do is say the name before he can get killed and voila. RE1031 said: 'scum excuse' is not a thing in RVS. I mean there is no reason to vote for anybody at that point in time, that's what makes it RVS. You just vote on the first person that catches your eye. (or at least that's what i always do. Are there people that do something else?)Mechanics, shamefully so, are more reliable to me than behavior. Especially in early game. But right now, I'll leave a vote on vote: wen294 #34, (voting for Wyndz cause of similar names) seems kinda like a scum excuse. That and supporting my idea (a bit hypocritical, but meh) without offering any reason to agree is not something I'd do as town. What's the benefit of this gimmick? Would we actually manage to catch scum this way? There's no substance, just blind agreement. edit: oops, wrong link And i usually agree with random gimmicks (like character claiming or so). I mean not like i really have a reason not to. Even if i don't see the benefit, no harm done in joining in if somebody else DOES see benefit in it no? |
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Oyasumi_Rosie said: yurkin said: Idk... Logic is good at pocketing people as scum, and the neighboring ablity makes that even easier...Hey hey logic :3 the duckling egg did go to its best possible owner. Had to google the meaning of the pocketing thing. Yeah, true. Regardless of logic's alignment he's already good enough Neighbor even without that role. As he's great with convincing people and talking/wording in general. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Melanoid said: Thank you, I have some experience but I don't think I can consider myself good with this game orz I've read page 1 and skimmed page 2 and 3. I will read it all properly when I get back home later. Unfortunately game started on a rare day that I get to be busy ;-; what kind of experience? Also just dont lurk phase is 48 hours :D Played casually on another forum and yep I won't lurk, like I said the game started on a day when I get to be busy (which is a rare occasion) During the drafting phase I considered picking roles that mafia might prioritize picking since I'd rather have that kind of role be me rather than it going to mafia but I ended up prioritizing drafting roles that would be more useful to town. Unfortunately I wasn't lucky with rng and got this role. Regardless if Occult reveal their information today, there's really no way I'd believe it unless Occult dies and ends up being confirmed town but I prefer it being revealed early since it's too risky to hide that information the longer the game gets. with that being said, I'm up for lynching the Occult right after he reveals his information just so we can get a clear town if occult flips town. Hopefully jailkeeper would save confirmed town after that tho. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: I can definitely see the potential for both sides after witnessing it being used by Suzu and Jack, which is why it's in the neutral part of my list. It's just a role that suits me the player imo.logic340 said: Mason was one of my favorite roles as I like talking through things with others and I felt it was close to that role. I do think it has some potential to help me figure people out this game. I've seen it used in the hands of town (Suzune) and scum (Jackrito). I am hoping that I will be able to identify townies invite them to my club and work with them to ensnare the mafia. I put it at the bottom of my list because i dislike that role and i would rather now have it at all if i had a choice. I wouldsay tho it has alot of potential for both alignments. Shinichi-Kun said: Why do you feel that the train consists of town? I feel like asking for the confirmed townie can come from either alignment but I feel that mafia would have more of a need/want for that information at this time. We have at least 2 people (RE and Zymf) maybe more who have outfight asked him to reveal his information. It's his role he should use it the way he sees fit (reminds me of N3 when Penta told you to sacrifice yourself for town) that and I feel there are better ways and times to reveal that information which would be more beneficial to town. I'd say the I am slightly suspicious of them while you seem to be town clearing them?Lets just ignore the idea of lists or anything that has to do with mechanics. If that's all said and done the best place to start looking at are the peoples reasons for discredting and crediting the voting of wyz. Cause from the way i see it the train is most likely consisting of town, which is why im worried that ruu is trying to discredit it like its a scum aligned move. |
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Oyasumi_Rosie said: While all roles are neutral there are some that would be better for mafia than other. logic340 said: No idea! All roles are neutral in reality, so I don't really have a reason to really think of them.Why are you scum no matter what? This is my interpretation of who would want what roles not where they ended up. What is your interpretation? Which roles do you think town and scum would be shooting for? Though, in all honesty, the neighboring role really is the most scummy to me. That role would be perfect for scum to pocket another player. Egg Thrower/Artist/Chef are three roles I don't think mafia would even want. They give them no power, and being that two of them don't visit anyone they are in danger of being watched making a kill. So while I wont just say the people with these abilities are town I would say that there is less chance the mafia would target these abilities as they aren't very helpful. Sucks for Ruu since she admitted to having Egg Thrower last which is where I would expect these roles to show up on almost any list but especially mafia's. |
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wen294 said: I agree with you here. Mafia would want the watcher role imo so they don't have to worry about being watched when making a kill. Town would also want that role as it's one of the best information roles we have in this setup. Bomb would be a great role for mafia as well but I didn't think about that until we started discussion it here. Amnesiac is Shinichi and he voted for Rosie right out the gate. Do you think that scum Shinichi targets the role he wants with his "RVS" vote? Zymf said: Below is my own personal quickly-made list of roles that I initially find the most townish and scummy. I will not give away my reasoning yet, but I encourage others to make a similar list ^^ I think it's a good place to start your analysis on other people. Townish roles: 1. Camouflaged Egg (Watcher) 2. Fullmetal Egg (Jailer) 3. Golden Egg (Lightning Rod) 9. Spooky Egg (Amnesiac) Scummy roles: 4. Explosive Egg (Bomb) 5. Occult Egg (Peeker) 7. Sparkling Egg (Reloader) 8. Royal Egg (Doublevoter) In principle this is rubbish. Scum wants watcher or jailer just so that town DOESN'T have them. Also Amnesiac is great because if scum has it you can use it on the bomb. Especially if the bomb is already scum, they'd have 2 townies dead for sure. |
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Crossbell said: It would indeed be annoying, which is why I think that Wyndz should reveal his target probably during the Night/close to Night deadline or when that person is run up. It just felt strange that IMMEDIATELY (on post 19) you wanted Wyndz to reveal his target. Like, we aren't even out of the opening phases yet and you posted that. I'm interested as to why you were so eager to know, so early in the game. 1. I somehow missed the part that we could speak during the night. 2. I didn't think of the benefit of observing interactions between the confirmed townie and the rest of the players. 3. I didn't know what to talk about .-. 4. If he reveals early (and he's mafia), there's less wriggle room to jump in the defense of a teammate close to being lynched. Crossbell said: RE1031 said: It's something that fulfills a scum agenda. If the scum know who the confirmed town is, right off the bat, then they won't pressure/vote that person. However, if they don't know, then they could pressure or vote that person. If Wyndz reveals that person to be town, then we've just gained a lot of information. It's why I'm suspicious of you trying to pressure Wyndz to reveal his target immediately.Also, can you expand on this? Do you mean that it's something scummy to do, or something lazy? So basically, if they find out, they can avoid any confrontation/interaction whatsoever that would look suspicious if that confirmed townie flips townie to everyone? But townies always come down on townies. I feel there's far more benefit to a townie learning who the other townies are than scum learning who the confirmed townie is. wen294 said: RE1031 said: Let's say Wyndz is town - if he gets night killed before revealing who the confirmed townie is, then we may waste future phases debating whether that townie is scum or not, and that would be annoying. Yeah it's a slim possibility, but why hold off on revealing information we want to learn eventually? I suppose if they're any of the strong power roles, it's a dangerous situation, but it doesn't exactly change anything since mafia would be wanting to get rid of the stronger power roles from the start. And if he's not town (whether third party or mafia) - I kind of doubt he would protect his own teammate by claiming they're the confirmed townie. If we caught the "confirmed" townie in a lynch or in a suspicious night action, that'd be two mafia down the drain. If he's third party, well, idk the win condition so I can't say if there's any use in lying about the name they received. Because you'd be throwing information down the drain. You just said that yourself so i'm assuming you don't want to do that? We might learn things from the behaviour of the confirmed townie and people jumping on the confirmed townie. All he has to do is say the name before he can get killed and voila. So you are suggesting he reveals before the end of night 1? Because if he's town, he doesn't exactly know when he'll get killed. RE1031 said: 'scum excuse' is not a thing in RVS. I mean there is no reason to vote for anybody at that point in time, that's what makes it RVS. You just vote on the first person that catches your eye. (or at least that's what i always do. Are there people that do something else?)Mechanics, shamefully so, are more reliable to me than behavior. Especially in early game. But right now, I'll leave a vote on vote: wen294 #34, (voting for Wyndz cause of similar names) seems kinda like a scum excuse. That and supporting my idea (a bit hypocritical, but meh) without offering any reason to agree is not something I'd do as town. What's the benefit of this gimmick? Would we actually manage to catch scum this way? There's no substance, just blind agreement. edit: oops, wrong link And i usually agree with random gimmicks (like character claiming or so). I mean not like i really have a reason not to. Even if i don't see the benefit, no harm done in joining in if somebody else DOES see benefit in it no? Um, at the time, I DIDN'T see a benefit, or at least, I didn't offer one. I simply asked why not?, and you said, why not. There is plenty harm in joining in if you don't see the benefit. And some people offered a number of reasons not to. For starters, it's a waste of time. People can easily lie about lists, as long as it's about the roles they ranked above the one they received. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
Melanoid said: Yesterday was Mother's Day so I figure that most were busy as I was with work then cooking dinner for my mother. Good to hear you have some prior experience I look forward to hopefully figuring you out. Thank you, I have some experience but I don't think I can consider myself good with this game orz I've read page 1 and skimmed page 2 and 3. I will read it all properly when I get back home later. Unfortunately game started on a rare day that I get to be busy ;-; Melanoid said: Played casually on another forum and yep I won't lurk, like I said the game started on a day when I get to be busy (which is a rare occasion) During the drafting phase I considered picking roles that mafia might prioritize picking since I'd rather have that kind of role be me rather than it going to mafia but I ended up prioritizing drafting roles that would be more useful to town. Unfortunately I wasn't lucky with rng and got this role. Regardless if Occult reveal their information today, there's really no way I'd believe it unless Occult dies and ends up being confirmed town but I prefer it being revealed early since it's too risky to hide that information the longer the game gets. with that being said, I'm up for lynching the Occult right after he reveals his information just so we can get a clear town if occult flips town. Hopefully jailkeeper would save confirmed town after that tho. I have seen various descriptions for lurking what do you consider lurking to be? So your original plan was to select roles you though mafia would want then you decided to go for roles you felt would be beneficial to town? Which roles do you think the mafia would want? Which roles do you feel would be most beneficial to town? I can't say there is no way I wouldn't believe Occult Eggs information. It needs to be take with a grain of salt. If we can figure him out behaviorally then it may be worth listening to and not doubting just because? The chance of having two confirmed townies as opposed to one is real but it's going to come down to how we feel about Occult Eggs Behavior. I personally think that the user of the ability should choose the best time to reveal the information they have. If we force it out of him who's to say he didn't lie to appease us. If we let him do it on his own then we can judge his reasoning and decide whether we believe it or not. At this point I am not up for lynching Occult Egg or anyone else just for the sake of information. If you believe he or someone else is scummy then that's one thing but after losing Stray Dog because town lynched themselves to prove their results I am not at all down for town sacrificing themselves for any reason. Sacrificing 1 townie to prove another is not beneficial to town imo. |
| Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
WyNdZ said: @RE1031 - I've already said a couple times that I intend to reveal the confirmed townie before the end of night 1. I can even reveal it during the day phase if a lot of people think that's a good decision. I know, just offering explanation to my reasoning in asking super early. I'm fine with that. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
WyNdZ said: I can understand your reasons for being sceptical, which is good. This is a game of deception after all. However I strongly disagree with the part in bold. There's a few reasons for this: 1)The best outcome for your plan is that I flip town and you get a confirmed townie. You're basically sacrificing 1 townie and an entire day phase to get a confirmed townie. That's a really bad deal in my opinion. 2)You're assuming the jailer is a townie. I'd prefer you not make me a scapegoat in order to confirm a townie. If you're gonna lynch me, lynch me because you think I'm behaving scummy not because of my role. No wrong, the best outcome for this scenario is you flipping mafia after the lynch. If you're town and gets lynched. We get a confirm towny, If you're mafia and gets lynched then that's even better. That seems like a fair deal to me. Jailkeeper could be mafia but wouldn't it be suspicious for him not to protect confirmed town? I'd like to hear what other people think about this |
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WyNdZ said: I didnt say town would want those roles either but there is more of a chance of town going for those than mafia imo. The only thing those roles afford mafia is a hiding place behind a role most would consider useless. I can see mafia wanting them less than town but yes they probably were to the end of most people lists. wen says he chose the artist egg first what do you think this means for his alignment? logic340 said: While all roles are neutral there are some that would be better for mafia than other. Egg Thrower/Artist/Chef are three roles I don't think mafia would even want. They give them no power Maybe it's just me but I see no reason why a town person would want those roles either. They're completely powerless. Whoever got those roles were most likely just unlucky in the rng. |
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logic340 said: wen294 said: I agree with you here. Mafia would want the watcher role imo so they don't have to worry about being watched when making a kill. Town would also want that role as it's one of the best information roles we have in this setup. Bomb would be a great role for mafia as well but I didn't think about that until we started discussion it here. Amnesiac is Shinichi and he voted for Rosie right out the gate. Do you think that scum Shinichi targets the role he wants with his "RVS" vote? In principle this is rubbish. Scum wants watcher or jailer just so that town DOESN'T have them. Also Amnesiac is great because if scum has it you can use it on the bomb. Especially if the bomb is already scum, they'd have 2 townies dead for sure. It's certainly possible. The sooner rosie is dead, the sooner he can take her role. As an amnesiac i can well imagine that you'd want a role with a usefull power to die ASAP and imo bomb is more usefull as scum than town. Clearly had an eye on her role at the time he made the post, and says himself that the role is the reason for the vote. Not sure what he's talking about with character tho, i guess he means personality? Guess i'll move my vote: Change vote: Shinichi-kun |
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logic340 said: I have seen various descriptions for lurking what do you consider lurking to be? So your original plan was to select roles you though mafia would want then you decided to go for roles you felt would be beneficial to town? Which roles do you think the mafia would want? Which roles do you feel would be most beneficial to town? I can't say there is no way I wouldn't believe Occult Eggs information. It needs to be take with a grain of salt. If we can figure him out behaviorally then it may be worth listening to and not doubting just because? The chance of having two confirmed townies as opposed to one is real but it's going to come down to how we feel about Occult Eggs Behavior. I personally think that the user of the ability should choose the best time to reveal the information they have. If we force it out of him who's to say he didn't lie to appease us. If we let him do it on his own then we can judge his reasoning and decide whether we believe it or not. At this point I am not up for lynching Occult Egg or anyone else just for the sake of information. If you believe he or someone else is scummy then that's one thing but after losing Stray Dog because town lynched themselves to prove their results I am not at all down for town sacrificing themselves for any reason. Sacrificing 1 townie to prove another is not beneficial to town imo. I'd consider someone lurking when they're proven to be able to reply but refuse to do so otherwise I'd think they're just plain inactive. Roles I assume both mafia and town would prioritize: Watcher Jailkeeper Peeker Bomb Amnesiac After giving it some thought both alignments could have prioritized the same five roles as these roles have the biggest impact on the game. Sacrificng 1 townie to confirm another one is definitely not worth the lynch but that is if the occult egg can be proven townie. To be specific we'd be sacrificing 1 NOT confirmed townie to confirm another one. |
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Melanoid said: WyNdZ said: I can understand your reasons for being sceptical, which is good. This is a game of deception after all. However I strongly disagree with the part in bold. There's a few reasons for this: 1)The best outcome for your plan is that I flip town and you get a confirmed townie. You're basically sacrificing 1 townie and an entire day phase to get a confirmed townie. That's a really bad deal in my opinion. 2)You're assuming the jailer is a townie. I'd prefer you not make me a scapegoat in order to confirm a townie. If you're gonna lynch me, lynch me because you think I'm behaving scummy not because of my role. No wrong, the best outcome for this scenario is you flipping mafia after the lynch. If you're town and gets lynched. We get a confirm towny, If you're mafia and gets lynched then that's even better. That seems like a fair deal to me. Jailkeeper could be mafia but wouldn't it be suspicious for him not to protect confirmed town? I'd like to hear what other people think about this Because Jailkeeper has only 2 shots, I think it's better for them to save for later game when there's more of chance they'll be successful (though totally debatable if it's about protecting themselves). There's also no guarantee that mafia will go for the confirmed townie, especially if that townie is someone with any of the last 3 roles on the list (super fluffy). It's likelier they'll go after someone who's less likely to be protected. And if Jailkeeper is mafia, all they have to do is kill someone else. Wasting shots isn't a big deal for mafia. Also, I'm pretty against voting for people based on their roles. Lots of people got roles that were pretty far down on their list, if we're talking desirability, and in this particular case, the benefit rests solely on WyNdZ being mafia. If he's town (and even if he's mafia), then it's pretty unfair to vote him based on something he had little choice in especially this early in the game. Basically, don't take the easy route out? I think? |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
| @melanoid #147 It shouldn't be strange... Rather no one will notice if the confirmed town was protected by the jailer or not. If for example, the mafia decided to simply target another player and leave the conf. town for another night kill. The jailer even if being mafia can still use his ability to protect him while the mafia kill someone other. Btw game mechanic talk and theories, cross will be angry at me ... ;_; |
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RE1031 said: That's what i said, yeah.So you are suggesting he reveals before the end of night 1? Because if he's town, he doesn't exactly know when he'll get killed. In the end it's his own choice to make though, but if he wants to make sure he tells it and is planning to do so during the day it's worth noting that night would be a better choice. After all he can opt not to say it, so scum will have to take the risk with NK if they want to kill him to shut him up and risk truly confirming the towny that wyndz appointed, or not kill him and risk him not even telling who the townie is during the night. It adds uncertainty to the scum's side of the board, which is good for us townies. WyNdZ said: logic340 said: While all roles are neutral there are some that would be better for mafia than other. Egg Thrower/Artist/Chef are three roles I don't think mafia would even want. They give them no power Maybe it's just me but I see no reason why a town person would want those roles either. They're completely powerless. Whoever got those roles were most likely just unlucky in the rng. <--- had artist as first choice. I mean sure it's not a usefull role buuut it's a fun one so that's cool? Less chance of getting a NK target on my head and tbh i ain't good with power roles. I chose to leave that to my peers and go for the role with which i cannot fuck up. And it's fun. |
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Crossbell said: Shinichi said: Why are you so concerned about how the post would be perceived?Was mainly so people didnt confuse it as an rvs vote, which i knew people would question it. Shinichi said: Same here. Why do you care that you would be considered scummy?Also a naked vote would be considered scummy well maybe not so much during the rvs phase >_> Shinichi said: Do you know of anyone who would have "rushed" the question and would be more likely to be scum, according to you?Even though its mechanics talk I feel like as town you should put a lot of thought into this, people that rushed the question are more likely to be scum. As for the stuff on logic, thanks. I'll take a look at it tomorrow. --- RE1031 said: Let's say Wyndz is town - if he gets night killed before revealing who the confirmed townie is, then we may waste future phases debating whether that townie is scum or not, and that would be annoying. Yeah it's a slim possibility, but why hold off on revealing information we want to learn eventually? It would indeed be annoying, which is why I think that Wyndz should reveal his target probably during the Night/close to Night deadline or when that person is run up. It just felt strange that IMMEDIATELY (on post 19) you wanted Wyndz to reveal his target. Like, we aren't even out of the opening phases yet and you posted that. I'm interested as to why you were so eager to know, so early in the game. Im not at all lol, honestly i dont see the problem in annoucing the point of my vote so take it however you want. I do know the people who asked the question atleast the main ones like Rei and Zymf. |
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yurkin said: @melanoid #147 It shouldn't be strange... Rather no one will notice if the confirmed town was protected by the jailer or not. If for example, the mafia decided to simply target another player and leave the conf. town for another night kill. The jailer even if being mafia can still use his ability to protect him while the mafia kill someone other. Btw game mechanic talk and theories, cross will be angry at me ... ;_; ^ this basically what i did when i was scum!doctor and there was a cop claim and later a proven townie. Use your ability to protect target and assume there was a tracker/watcher or whatever. Kill somebody else, rake in some free town cred. |
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wen294 said: Zymf said: Below is my own personal quickly-made list of roles that I initially find the most townish and scummy. I will not give away my reasoning yet, but I encourage others to make a similar list ^^ I think it's a good place to start your analysis on other people. Townish roles: 1. Camouflaged Egg (Watcher) 2. Fullmetal Egg (Jailer) 3. Golden Egg (Lightning Rod) 9. Spooky Egg (Amnesiac) Scummy roles: 4. Explosive Egg (Bomb) 5. Occult Egg (Peeker) 7. Sparkling Egg (Reloader) 8. Royal Egg (Doublevoter) In principle this is rubbish. Scum wants watcher or jailer just so that town DOESN'T have them. Also Amnesiac is great because if scum has it you can use it on the bomb. Especially if the bomb is already scum, they'd have 2 townies dead for sure. I get what ya mean, good thing i didnt roll scum then |
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