SD(Suggestion Discussion) #1 (Restructuring the Chain of Command for Forum Moderators)

Martin said:
I think having trainee mods who specialize in moderating a certain board definitely helps heaps loads especially to those who are quite new. Right now, as it is, I'm already seeing the newbie mods getting a lot of flack for pretty much everything that has happened ever since they are hired (although some senior mods have gotten some hate, as well). I think that's partially due to the fact their responsibility is to moderate all the boards rather than being assigned to a specialized few.

I know a few other boards that do this, and trainees who do their job well usually get assigned other boards later on and soon enough become global mods for that forum. I think having these different groups of mods is a step in the right direction.

Honestly surprised MAL doesn't have something like this, tbh.

worldeditor11 said:
You guys are looking this in the wrong way. A restructuring is a possible and an effective method in improving if the structure has a strong base to begin with. In other words, the current system we have now is too broken to be fixed simply by adding new features while keeping the present mods. Yes, the present mods are the problem. We aren't just talking about forum mods. Oh no, we are talking about the whole MAL Staff. That includes Kineta as implied in the thread topic.

Hence, why Anno sneakily ensures that the Staff will have the highest position to gain his fellow friends favour. I don't know why we should hand over the responsibilities to people who time and time again produce poor results. Ask yourself this, why do we as users still keep electing these people as our representatives? Of course, you can say they will change after the restructuring have been done but I am doubtful. Really doubtful. There is just no assurance that they will do their job properly after the reconstitution.

A change in structure will improve our current situation somewhat but not effective enough considering the scale of the change. This is like changing a corrupt government but keeping all of the corrupted officials. Hence, why I said fire everyone and vote a fresh new Staff team through community suggestions and voting.

Astros said:

What do you think are the largest problems with the current staff?

worldeditor11 said:
Kineta.

worldeditor11 said:
Trust. Simple as that. A leader without the trust of his/her subjects is not a leader other than a failure as one.

Astros said:
Hmm, I see so Kineta is the largest problem. While I can agree in some regards concerning her dislike of new things I'm uncertain if that's the same reasons for you or if it's truly the largest issue.(I don't know much about her nor about what she does.) What aspect of her work ethic do you think could be improved and thus improve the staff and overall community?

Astros said:
What do you think can be done to rebuild trust? It would be a difficult task if both sides are not willing to do so. I think it is in our best interest to be the first to offer as pouting and doing nothing will get us nowhere.

Concerning Tallon I'm not sure who that is. Care to elaborate?

worldeditor11 said:
Well, her work she puts out is good enough. I personally don't see anything wrong in she fulfilling her job. When it does not involves leadership that is. The problem is she is not fit as a leader. This was pointed by Tallon and later confirmed by yours truly when I went and volunteer myself as one of the elves in MAL Secret Santa back then.

worldeditor11 said:
In summary of the event
- Nobody listened to anybody else except two members(myself and pond/ona the Philippine girl) other than Kineta

worldeditor11 said:
- Most if not all members only talk to Kineta actively while ignoring anyone else

worldeditor11 said:
- Members spent most of their time idle when Kineta was MIA since club creation (A club was created for this event), only appearing two days before the event being held

worldeditor11 said:
- Members treat her as a friend, not as a leader

worldeditor11 said:
- The event was actually late due to poor work distribution and members going MIA (no punishment)

worldeditor11 said:
- Things were done in the last minute thanks to this

worldeditor11 said:
- Decisions were held by Kineta solely, criticisms will be ignored

worldeditor11 said:
- 2/3 elves went and become part of the Staff

Shocking isn't it? Especially the last point. The problem is she simply not fit for the job.

worldeditor11 said:
Trust is a two way street. Even though we are willing, they are not. The so called Anno's obvious sarcasm proves this fact. Therefore, I won't spend time and effort on something that yields minimal to no results. But let me say this, most of us trust Tyrel as a forum moderator, not the Staff. Why? Because he had done his work as defined, the key difference between him and rest of the Staff.

http://malcom.wikia.com/wiki/TallonKarrde23

worldeditor11 said:
- Members treat her as a friend, not as a leader

Astros said:

By "back then" I'll assume years past.

Astros said:

So there were major problems with communication? That definitely sounds like mismanagement, but without the full story I can't be sure of exactly why, though I won't deny Kineta is partially responsible. At least that is unless everyone wasn't following protocol.

Hmm, that sounds less of a consequence of Kineta and more of a preference by the members. Unless Kineta was the only one appointed to supervise and direct the event.

Astros said:

Quite a slim window to get everyone involved. Another sign of mismanagement, but why is still unclear.

Astros said:

Well to be expected when volunteering to help. It's rare a stranger volunteers unless they are passionate about the cause.

Astros said:
Just want to say after further consideration I understand what you might have implied by this better. Going to assume you mean this was a result of her leadership in that she possibly couldn't keep personal aspects separate of professional ones.

Astros said:

Can you elaborate on why it was poor? I'm going to assume work wasn't handed out to everyone and so they set idle until they received orders. If Kineta was the only one to do this then I can see how things would halt if she disappeared. Would have definitely been better if someone was appointed as a co-director to the event.

Astros said:

You mean like criticizing the efficiency of the event? I could see that being reasonable considering how they were worded. It's easy to cause offense even if you don't aim to do so.

Astros said:

That is quite interesting. One explanation I would have for that would be the trust you mentioned. Perhaps Kineta trusted those elves more to do a responsible job.(Whatever that may be.) Of course that doesn't mean that's the sole reason they could also be qualified in other area's, but it would definitely explain an aspect of the reasoning behind moderator selection.

Astros said:

Sorry to dissect your post, but I think it more clear to respond like this for this particular post. A thing to consider however, is this the only time this has happened? Everyone has their moments of fault. Pointing at a single moment to deem someone unqualified won't cut it. I'm not saying that to discredit it, but merely to acknowledge it will take more than that one instance to convince others that Kineta is unfit or needs to improve. Speaking of which do you believe there is no room for her to improve upon her leadership? I know it's a hard skill to do so, but not everyone is a born leader. I ask this mainly as I doubt she will ever be replaced so encouraging her to improve for legitimate reasons is a way to try and seek improvement of the staff's efficiency and thus the forum.

Astros said:

I'm not good at talking in analogy so I'll just say the current staff have nothing to lose from not trusting us, but we have everything to lose if we do not try to trust them. While I don't support this, there's hardly anything to be done about it. We're left without a choice basically.

worldeditor11 said:
I have only been here since 2013, years past is exaggeration considering we are presently at the end of 2015.

worldeditor11 said:
Communication problem? Not really. I meant it as other members trying to ignore their fellow members. This is not Kineta's fault. At least, not directly as most of them volunteered with a personal agenda to get into the Staff. A wild assumption but that's my conclusion.

worldeditor11 said:
Idling because users themselves chose to and yes, the work we have designated were vague but the general idea was there for us to based on. I however, refused to sit around and started at least do something as per my job description. I tried to discuss, but only one or two members out of a dozen responded to me.

worldeditor11 said:
Correct. That's the fine line separating between personal relations and professionalism. However, she can't discern this fact.

worldeditor11 said:
- Communication between members were practically non-existent besides members<--->Kineta
- Therefore, job overlapping occured where two different parties worked on the same job without realising it was being worked on
- I was one of the party involved that finished sorting the names for the recommendations, only to be told that it will be not accepted because they(as in other members besides myself) have done another list of the same nature while I was sleeping. Kineta apologised to me and I accepted it because it was partly my fault for not consulting with other members. I already told Kineta when I finished the night before though. To add salt to injury, the list was visible to every member of the club. Nobody came and helped despite knowing this. I silently vowed to not worked under Kineta again because of this incident.
- Members are expected to be proactive in their work, not like mindless chess pieces waiting till the leader commands them. I am only here because of Kineta thought process is questionable in itself.

worldeditor11 said:
Yes. I suggested something let say x. Kineta said no, we should do y because xyz reasons. Fair enough, since she was the boss and the reasoning was sound. Only to be faced with x at the end because ..... I don't know.

worldeditor11 said:
Trust as in they won't stab her on the back like obedient and loyal elves they were. Fun fact, the majority of the elves became part of the Staff were MIAs, Kineta-worshippers and lazy bums. People who did the bulk of the work get nothing at the end. Not referring to myself specifically as I was able to pinpoint three other members whom were more deserving.

worldeditor11 said:
True but results speak for themselves. See the Staff and the problems surrounding it proves whatever it wants to prove. If it just me, heck, I zip my mouth shut about this. But majority of the members share the same sentiment otherwise we won't have trust issues and blatant mod bashing every now and then.

About Kineta no. She has more than 5 years to prove her worth as someone who can lead MAL in the right direction. Well, did she?

worldeditor11 said:
Dependency is a weakness. That's too much of a disadvantage for us to start negotiating when they start to attack at this particular fact.

And Kineta just blurted out we are akin to spoiled children. Way to convince you are competent.

Astros said:

Hmm, I see. So the vagueness most likely lead to idleness as elves would rather depend on Kineta's guidance.

Astros said:

Wow, definitely seems like there was a lot of wasted effort and time. Partially due to Kineta, but largely due to the volunteers. Was the list they compiled more thorough than yours or were you never able to see it?

Astros said:

Definitely concerning she would trust people who had difficulty with this event to help run the site. Of course as I said earlier just one instance isn't enough to define a character so there's probably something that convinced her otherwise.

Astros said:

Huh, something else about them must have been a put off for Kineta and the other staff at the time then.

Astros said:

I see, I wouldn't know as I have been here only as long as you and have not grasped the full extent of her leadership. Though, I'll note you do not think there is room for improvement and replacement is the best option. While we can't really act on that it does bring up an important question, that being if there can be more done besides change the chain of command to improve staff efficiency.

Astros said:

In certain cases it certainly can be. Well, I don't believe the disadvantage is to change anytime soon so I advocate we do what we can with what we have until things hopefully change. If they resort to attacking that particular fact it only serves to reveal their character.

Yes, I mentioned that before I believe. They have full confidence in their decision so we have little room to persuade them otherwise. It will depend on the results of the update whether we have room to change this. If it fails to do as they hope we can try to persuade them that our input would be beneficial to them in finding a better solution.

worldeditor11 said:
Whether it is right or wrong is up to a different debate. Still, instead of working towards the objectives, they chose to rely solely on the leader to make decisions. I just don't see the commitment in them.

worldeditor11 said:
As I said, the list is public, both theirs and mine. Funny thing is, it contained the problems regarding the x and y as I stated earlier. Let me put it this way, the list contained usernames matching another usernames not of their own.

Example:

Astros --> Worldeditor11
Worldeditor --> Martin

And so on. The arrow signifies who recommend to who. The issue I brought up was x --> y, y--> x acceptable or not. She said no because reasons I can't be bothered to elaborate further. My list contained none of this (aligning with her wishes) since I personally matched users through manual labour. Yes, I was both stupid and diligent back then as I hold the opinion that users tastes should match each other, not through arbitrary means. So, I visited each user profile in the list and match them up. As you know, they made another list that contained x --> y, y--> x because they did it with a random number generator. I pointed this out but they just shrugged their shoulders "Oh well, it can't be helped".

worldeditor11 said:
No doubt there's bias in my response against Kineta as a leader and clearly I am not the most objective person around. However, I don't think I am entirely wrong in my judgement of her as the MAL overlord.

worldeditor11 said:
Probably they didn't hang out in the IRC as much as the others do. Nor they (through my observation) talk to her outside of their work environment and just focused on their jobs.

worldeditor11 said:
True, improvement can be made. By how much and whether the person herself is willing to improve or not are the main questions. People who don't want to change would not change. As simple as that. And the change will be painful. Not even trying to be prophetic by saying this.

worldeditor11 said:
I don't like bootlicking as what you are implying now. Judging from their latest response from the thread, I can't be bothered why me typing essay long replies will help improve MAL. It doesn't.