Sword Art Online (light novel)
| "If Asuna was getting raped by Yuuki" seems legit |
 |
Caleb8980 said: Never said that, but there is no reason to get down to their level ;-) I have long since given up to make discussion partners talk with you without taking your list into account, hence I struggled for a long time whether I should add anything in here in the first place, but then I ran into the problem that people didn't really believe what I said about a series. For example sb didn't want to believe me that I found the first SAO season to be shit (even called me fanboy...) just because I wrote with somebody about this new season in my profile chat... I actually did this first with a friend of mine that claimed SAO was shit because Kirito was "so op", the same person who loved Levi and Mikasa from Shingeki no Kyojin, i won't rant about SnK, but both of them are kinda op, right? making his argument totally invalid, you get what i mean? xd [i have to write this little emoticon or people would think im mad or something, lol] |
| Obviously she is not because then all the peopl who get a boner everytime when Kirito is the best at something might feel scared about not being pandered to. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| I find it pretty hysterical that you go to my list and bash another show to support your argument. You already disqualified yourself from being literate based on your responses.I actually wrote a fairly open minded review when SAO first came out, http://myanimelist.net/profile/Smooched/reviews, if you care to read for it. Since you can't read properly let me lay it out for you: 1) I never said SAO the show was shit. I said that the GAME SAO and ALO are absolutely garbage because the in game mechanics are made up for the convenience of the plot. Dual wielding because of fastest reaction time? The game creator that can hack the game losing to Kirito? Explain to me why this is not for the convenience of the plot. 2) I said SAO is for thirsty as mofos like yourself, because in your case, it's probably true. I also said that I enjoyed watching SAO. So what does that make me? I'm a girl by the way so I guess I am thirsty as well. 3) You said I never gave a proper reason of why SAO sucks. First of all, I never said it sucked (see my first point) but since you're going this route, I think I provided plenty of explanations of why I think SAO is nothing special especially when it comes to the plot. @Last chapter I will admit that I did not read Mother's Rosario and only read up to GGO. Up to that point, I did not read any proper explanations about the games. Now, I do believe you about the explanations that will eventually come up in the light novels, but that still does not mean that a light novel explanation can be as complex as the game itself, especially in a MMO. I feel that the action and the adventurous parts of the story largely overshadows the game itself. This is why I believe OP is a troll for making this thread. PS. You should change this thread to manga discussions of it's not about the anime. |
Smooched said: I find it pretty hysterical that you go to my list and bash another show to support your argument. You already disqualified yourself from being literate based on your responses.I actually wrote a fairly open minded review when SAO first came out, http://myanimelist.net/profile/Smooched/reviews, if you care to read for it. Since you can't read properly let me lay it out for you: 1) I never said SAO the show was shit. I said that the GAME SAO and ALO are absolutely garbage because the in game mechanics are made up for the convenience of the plot. Dual wielding because of fastest reaction time? The game creator that can hack the game losing to Kirito? Explain to me why this is not for the convenience of the plot. 2) I said SAO is for thirsty as mofos like yourself, because in your case, it's probably true. I also said that I enjoyed watching SAO. So what does that make me? I'm a girl by the way so I guess I am thirsty as well. 3) You said I never gave a proper reason of why SAO sucks. First of all, I never said it sucked (see my first point) but since you're going this route, I think I provided plenty of explanations of why I think SAO is nothing special especially when it comes to the plot. Lol pls. I'm not supporting my argument, you were the one who brought the "thirsty ass" shit, lol 1) ??? how is that convenient anyway? he wanted someone to take the hero role, since Kirito discovered him, he proposed the duel and he never lied, he took the duel seriously 1 on 1 with no system protection. Kayaba didn't want to be a killed, he was one, yes, but he never intended to kill 5~k players. You forget that Kayaba had a Unique Skill too, and giving one to 200 players would be stupid since he would've to fight against 49 by himself (i think that was the boss raid size) so he chose one. 2) It's still out of place. I enjoyed SAO because of the story, the way it goes to those topics of VR vs RL, it's something I enjoy from my heart, specially since i read GGO over a year ago, then Mother's Rosario, all the uses VR and games could have irl were amazing, it goes from a guy who couldn't trust people, a girl with PTSD, another who just wanted to get closer to her cousin like when they were kids and 3) I guess i implied you thought it sucked because "it's for thirsty ass mofos", anyway, i apologize. |
diu613 said: Kirito obviously has not fight to his full potential, unless its a life and death situation like sao - Recall the scenes when he overcome the system. He didnt even use dual sword when dueling with yuuki. Dual sword is what make him unique and badass, why does the author have to state that "However, kirito hasn't used dual sword"/ "when the game is not a game anymore kirito will be serious" , becos he wants to bring out that he tried, but not to his full ability. People say that the author has answered in his perspective and saids he isnt confident on fighting yuuki, or cant win etc... btw that setting was set on 2005. Yuuki has 11 combo. Kirito has skill connect, one hand does a 6 combo sword skill and the other hand odes another 6 whts the result ? And he can do that for 4/5 times. Think of a situation if asuna was getting raped by yuuki like the scenes from sugou. Do u think he can win now ? do u think he can overcome the limit and beat yuuki. One more thing is his lost is needed for asuna to be curious about zekken, so that she can sort out her own stuff later on. Guys come on ! Kirito fought to live for 2 years. You are telling me a girl who just plays for more than 2 years can beat someone who has experienced war. It's a shame you posted this before actually "waiting" for Yuuki's character to develop. I think Yuuki's situation brings to light why she "might" be a better swordsman than Kirito...you know, since Considering Kirito doesn't spend nearly as much time online as Yuuki does, I can believe it if Yuuki "caught up to him" in regards to pure skill. |
Toucanbird said: diu613 said: Kirito obviously has not fight to his full potential, unless its a life and death situation like sao - Recall the scenes when he overcome the system. He didnt even use dual sword when dueling with yuuki. Dual sword is what make him unique and badass, why does the author have to state that "However, kirito hasn't used dual sword"/ "when the game is not a game anymore kirito will be serious" , becos he wants to bring out that he tried, but not to his full ability. People say that the author has answered in his perspective and saids he isnt confident on fighting yuuki, or cant win etc... btw that setting was set on 2005. Yuuki has 11 combo. Kirito has skill connect, one hand does a 6 combo sword skill and the other hand odes another 6 whts the result ? And he can do that for 4/5 times. Think of a situation if asuna was getting raped by yuuki like the scenes from sugou. Do u think he can win now ? do u think he can overcome the limit and beat yuuki. One more thing is his lost is needed for asuna to be curious about zekken, so that she can sort out her own stuff later on. Guys come on ! Kirito fought to live for 2 years. You are telling me a girl who just plays for more than 2 years can beat someone who has experienced war. It's a shame you posted this before actually "waiting" for Yuuki's character to develop. I think Yuuki's situation brings to light why she "might" be a better swordsman than Kirito...you know, since Considering Kirito doesn't spend nearly as much time online as Yuuki does, I can believe it if Yuuki "caught up to him" in regards to pure skill. THat doe snot change her quicker thinking, better reaction time or stronger tactical thinking. |
 |
| Kirito always wins because plot armor. hes always stronger than the enemy no matter what like for no reason he will have a new power up that will enable him not only to win but gain another harem member. |
Wardo said: Kirito always wins because plot armor. hes always stronger than the enemy no matter what like for no reason he will have a new power up that will enable him not only to win but gain another harem member. Yea, that's why he always needs help to beat big enemies, XaXa, Kayaba, Eugene and so on... "plot armor" pls. |
LastChapter said: AllenNoah said: I'm always dubious when a character says that they're not confident in beating someone, as it's hard to tell whether it's fact or just plan humility. I'm sure anyone who watched Mahouka remembers when Tatsuya So yeah, I'll just go by what I see. In defense of that, I believe he meant that he was unconfident in beating him without revealing his true strength, etc. I read/watched that long ago so I may be wrong. That's kinda true about revealing his true strengths. Tatsuya also says that he was not confident because he has restrictions upon restrictions since it's just a sports game. He goes on to say if the battlefield was an even playing field with no restrictions the crimson prince could probably win. Obviously Tatsuya at this time was not talking about lifting his true restriction but just the games restrictions of rules(obviously lifting his true restrictions would make the Crimson Prince a joke lol). |
Reyxe said: Wardo said: Kirito always wins because plot armor. hes always stronger than the enemy no matter what like for no reason he will have a new power up that will enable him not only to win but gain another harem member. Yea, that's why he always needs help to beat big enemies, XaXa, Kayaba, Eugene and so on... "plot armor" pls. To be fair, with the exception of kayaba there were mitigating circumstances with eugene and xaxa: They were simply better equipped: Eugene with Garm while Kirito had day gear and Xaxa with his spaceship sword while Kirito had a sword that was lighter than he was used to. It's like when Luthor puts on his kryptonite suit to fight Superman, it doesn't mean he's not still Superman. And while I need to rewatch the Xaxa fight, nothing really said it had to be Leafa's sword that Kirito took to beat Eugene. If he had just picked up a random sword from the ground or a sylph mook I feel like it would've had the same effect. |
AllenNoah said: Reyxe said: Yea, that's why he always needs help to beat big enemies, XaXa, Kayaba, Eugene and so on... "plot armor" pls. To be fair, with the exception of kayaba there were mitigating circumstances with eugene and xaxa: They were simply better equipped: Eugene with Garm while Kirito had day gear and Xaxa with his spaceship sword while Kirito had a sword that was lighter than he was used to. It's like when Luthor puts on his kryptonite suit to fight Superman, it doesn't mean he's not still Superman. And while I need to rewatch the Xaxa fight, nothing really said it had to be Leafa's sword that Kirito took to beat Eugene. If he had just picked up a random sword from the ground or a sylph mook I feel like it would've had the same effect. Equipment is not that important, Leafa's sword wasn't as strong as Garm... XaXa's stoc was strong, yes... but still, in games with The Seed, it's all about skills, not items, they do help, yes, but it's not the main factor. Basically, Kirito lost to Kayaba, Asuna sacrificed herself and Kirito used her rapier to kill him after basically losing again. Eugene was beating him hard until Leafa appeared and used her sword, even if this isn't "help" exactly, he still needed it, same with the million soldier quest. Against XaXa, again, not equipment fault, he was just better than him, then Sinon helped him with the Phantom Bullet and Kirito used that opening to beat him. What i'm getting at, it's that the "plot armor" its almost unexistant, he's always helped by someone, Asuna, Sinon, Leafa... Just like people saying how "op" he is, it's stupid to talk about plot armor, well, maybe when Kyouji attacked him, lol |
Reyxe said: AllenNoah said: To be fair, with the exception of kayaba there were mitigating circumstances with eugene and xaxa: They were simply better equipped: Eugene with Garm while Kirito had day gear and Xaxa with his spaceship sword while Kirito had a sword that was lighter than he was used to. It's like when Luthor puts on his kryptonite suit to fight Superman, it doesn't mean he's not still Superman. And while I need to rewatch the Xaxa fight, nothing really said it had to be Leafa's sword that Kirito took to beat Eugene. If he had just picked up a random sword from the ground or a sylph mook I feel like it would've had the same effect. Equipment is not that important, Leafa's sword wasn't as strong as Garm... XaXa's stoc was strong, yes... but still, in games with The Seed, it's all about skills, not items, they do help, yes, but it's not the main factor. Basically, Kirito lost to Kayaba, Asuna sacrificed herself and Kirito used her rapier to kill him after basically losing again. Eugene was beating him hard until Leafa appeared and used her sword, even if this isn't "help" exactly, he still needed it, same with the million soldier quest. Against XaXa, again, not equipment fault, he was just better than him, then Sinon helped him with the Phantom Bullet and Kirito used that opening to beat him. What i'm getting at, it's that the "plot armor" its almost unexistant, he's always helped by someone, Asuna, Sinon, Leafa... Just like people saying how "op" he is, it's stupid to talk about plot armor, well, maybe when Kyouji attacked him, lol Yea but wasn't that explained about the electrode on his chest. He was in a rush out of the hospital and forgot to take them all off. Also wasn't it explained that it would be smart for him to inject into the heart. Which would make sense since Death Gun had medical knowledge. |
Bomb2chest said: Reyxe said: Equipment is not that important, Leafa's sword wasn't as strong as Garm... XaXa's stoc was strong, yes... but still, in games with The Seed, it's all about skills, not items, they do help, yes, but it's not the main factor. Basically, Kirito lost to Kayaba, Asuna sacrificed herself and Kirito used her rapier to kill him after basically losing again. Eugene was beating him hard until Leafa appeared and used her sword, even if this isn't "help" exactly, he still needed it, same with the million soldier quest. Against XaXa, again, not equipment fault, he was just better than him, then Sinon helped him with the Phantom Bullet and Kirito used that opening to beat him. What i'm getting at, it's that the "plot armor" its almost unexistant, he's always helped by someone, Asuna, Sinon, Leafa... Just like people saying how "op" he is, it's stupid to talk about plot armor, well, maybe when Kyouji attacked him, lol Yea but wasn't that explained about the electrode on his chest. He was in a rush out of the hospital and forgot to take them all off. Also wasn't it explained that it would be smart for him to inject into the heart. Which would make sense since Death Gun had medical knowledge. I know, but still, i laughed really hard when i was reading the LN, lol |
AfroSunshineX said: I like threads like this because: 1. It's purposefully done by the author to put the fandom into 2 different camps and get them at each other's throat. It's purposefully ambiguous. 2. Yuuki's character is a typical shounen trope whenever we have an OP character that would otherwise take all the suspense away from the manga/anime. Oh your main character is OP?? Here's someone you've never heard of who is even STRONGER! Muahahahahahahah! See! Your main character was never OP to begin with! And we all know what happens to these characters eventually **I actually don't know having never read the LN and not being entirely caught up on the show so no spoils please** 3. It brings out the haters. Loving it. Keep it coming gents. Honestly your point is valid about another character coming along to make the main character not seem OP. The thing is Kirito is not OP. Everything or everyone he defeated was achieved by someone helping him(mostly). He might be OP during times when it makes sense which I really don't count as being OP. |
LastChapter said: How Kirito is different from your typical shounen characters is unlike them who do some obscure "secret arts" Spartan training for like a week then suddenly obtain broken powers (until somehow a new enemy becomes much stronger and the cycle repeats again), he's been solo leveling for two years straight, getting only 3 hours average of sleep per night. (The body actually doesn't need rest in VR, but the mind instinctively wants sleep so that is how Kirito and other front-liners devote less time to sleep without the major sleep-deprived effects.) The anime of course skipped the training parts because of course they want action-packed episodes, not development. So admittedly yes, Kirito is OP, but it is not unreasonable. He got where he is through pure effort, not plot armor. Even himself alone is unable to defeat the enemies, he frequently obtains help on many occasions, especially Argo who literally carried his back. (She had a five second appearance in the anime.) Being a beta tester only helped slightly on the early floors, but that does not give a major advantage, seeing how Coper (he never appeared in the anime) and Diabel died on the first floor even though they were beta testers. The amount of detail that was omitted from the anime should be considered a crime lol. When I was reading about Argo in the LN my only thoughts were who the hell is this lol. Then I remembered they showed Argo for 2 seconds in the anime during Red-nosed Reindeer. |
LastChapter said: The anime even omitted the fact that Diabel was a beta tester too. Not to mention all of the subplot that happened during the first floor boss and prior, but I'm derailing the topic so I will go back to say that I'll be taking Kirito's word for it that he can't beat Yuuki in a fair fight. It's also unfair to match Yuuki and a completely serious life-or-death situation Kirito too so we also got to consider what if Yuuki was in that scenario too. Couldn't we say Yuuki is already fighting like her life is on the line already ? From the way she talks that's what it sounds like. Just a thought but I know what you mean about a life and death situation. |
| Question having just seen the fight in the anime. Either way, I don't think this debate will end anytime soon. I guess Yuuki's just destined to be the of SAO. |
| Discussing this is pointless, i am a kirito x asuna fan and i even know it's logical for yuuki to win vs kirito simply because shes been in a virtual world longer than himself, it is true that since hes not in a life threatening world he won't fight like he usually did, but i still don't see the problem here. |
| In Q&A, it is stated he has 8/10 to lose if i remember correctly, he adds that even with dualskill it should be difficult~ you feel that he knows she is somewhat faster than him and handle a sword far too well but he has still some confident that he could possibly win(is it deducted through some logic or warrior feeling who knows but he feels there is a chance) I would say Yuuki way of fighting is 'too generic' /r Kirito (even asuna showed some effective style), i believe he can win with 'unpredictable-original' moves (somehow lowering her reac' speed with surprising moves the strenght of the dualblade skill with high-str weps is supposed to be able to land twice more heavy slash but if Yuuki deflecting kirito's sword skill(slash) whitout even using one(BULLSHIT!, ok lets say she has very high str too~) is cannon then overwhelming her with dual blade attack or even simple SS won't work -even tho she has faster reac' speed i think he can at least match that speed for some moment, i don't think Yuuki can accel any further, she fights always at quite her full potential, its her way of life that push her to always do so, but she is more endurant(hard-wearing/more stamina/wore off less) at least she can maintaint a constant high attention-state/reaction-time for far more longer -Yuuki=Kirisuna =highSTR-reac'time+Strongwill+highdexterityagility +experience&else she isnt a true Swordman though she Owns the sword enough through her ownself, her swordplay isn't traditionnal but isnt 'sophicated' either(« Salute to the wise~»), it is just effective, the sole purpose of her attack is truly to hit(don't make fun of me lol) -no useless movements- well, so in someway it means she is good at using whatever she holds, so whats wrong in the final ? I said she is effective, that she is good with a sword after all ? ~its hard to understand my statement here~ like we said, A word to the wise is enough. In definitive i just want to say that Swordmanship isnt her way of life. I know im writing garbage~ kirito is a true Swordman (like Guts for exemple) his sword is incarn'ing his soul, his own swordplay can exceed Yuuki's entendment/understanding -Skill connect : lol winning through some kind of glitch, though it a good replacement in waiting for his starburst stream, its just look like him, Full attack mode, just DPSing his ennemies, neglecting defence whatever the damage taken Otherwise overwhelming her with his dear OP SS Starbust stream should works too -Yuuki, more the rapier-highagi-dex type(+high STR too), hard to dodge/counter this kind of atk so she is more mobile than him with lighter sword, thus in terms od number(High stats overall through converted character that get through countless world for more than 3y) kirito would have a hard time. Just hoping he could boost his SS through will o/ and should use some cunning attack like punch/kick -One more thing, KiritovsYuuki in Underworld =Kiritowins, he owns virtual reality(more than Neo in Matrix), she could not make the reality bend to her will as much as him Finally, i believe kirito has a lot more potential than yuuki (a bit like Simon /r Kamina), « he can see further »(*insert Sasuke new eyes can see fine in the light too here*) there is an interesting sentence said by yuuki to asuna about kirito, something like he is deeply connected to the VR world, her too has fuse with the VR world but she said he is more, it is different. I'm please to see that some have the understand the same things for SAO~ [*Running around the place*, « I saved Kirito's Honor ! »] |
 |
| I also think Kirito is stronger. First of all, the writer gave an interview. He said that Kirito would lose to Yuuki 8 out of 10 times. Then people asked what if Kirito used dual-wield. He said that Kirito could try it but he is also afraid that Yuuki would show up with dual-blades too. Still, everyone seems to forget that Kirito has the Excalibur. Also, Yuuki my have a natural fast reaction time but she's also cheating because medicuboid has less delay than Nervegear/Amushpere. I would love to see them fight, both with dual--wield, Kirito with his legendary, using the same hardware to connect to VR and 100% serious. I think Kirito would win. |
| They're both pretty awful to be honest. |
| Yuuki is stronger/faster....better than .... Kirito/Kazuto/whatever that douchebag name is....and that's it :p |
 |
AxBattler said: 1. Asuna was able to move and take the hit. Considering that Kabaya was the GM, breaking the paralysis should be completely impossible. This is a gaming world, using the will power to overcome GM control is plot armour IMO, and there just for Kirito's benefit. 2. Kirito coming back to life after his HP had depleted and already cracked into pieces. How come he is the only one capable of doing that? Even if I accept that he is so skilled as a player that he could take on the strongest ALO player until his appearance 1-on-1 in a air duel not long after learning how to fly, while using weaker equipment, coming back to life after the HP is completely depleted also seem like plot armour for a character who has never shown to have the ability to rewrite the rules of the game. And Kabaya (who has decent reaction time) just decide to let himself stabbed by a pretty slow attack afterwards (he might've been surprised, but he still saw the attack coming from far away). 1. It's probably the incarnating system (Accel World, since both are kinda connected), heck, it might even have something to do with the brain itself, just like Kirito is always "faster faster faster faster" when fighting, it's something that I think was hinted in Alicization (vol 9 - 15). 2. He didn't exactly came back to life, I don't know why the anime made it seem like all the fragments magically came back together, let me quote the LN: "My HP bar ran out, as if to laugh at my helpless rage. A small purple message appeared front and center: YOU ARE DEAD. God had spoken. A powerful chill ran through my body. Sensation faded. I could feel countless lines of code setting me free, slicing me into pieces, preparing to feast. The chill rose from my spine to my neck, then flooded into my head. The nerves of my skin, sound, light —everything grew farther away. My body was dissolving—turning into polygonal shards—dispersing..." And then happens what you already know, he grabs the rapier and stabs Kayaba with it, it never says he had already dissolved, while he does that, he talks about indescribable pain when moving in this form (probably because when you're dead you're paralyzed, a limit added by Kayaba, I guess), which, just like Asuna broke free of it, Kirito did too, also, this happened in the matter of 2 - 3 seconds, and the body always takes a while to completely dissolve into polygons. As for the reason why Kayaba decided to let himself get stabbed... well, this is fairly obvious imo and he explained it already, he saw the limits he created a world without most of the limitations the real world has, and he saw someone totally break the limitations it still had (paralysis and even "death") that's why he "died" satisfied, seeing that someone went even farther than he did, thus, entrusting him the seed. |
AxBattler said: @Reyxe Whether we see this as plot armour is a matter of opinion of course, and personally I do think that it is pushing credibility. From my perspective though, this "miracle" came out of nowhere, at the best time possible. I may (sort of) be able to buy that he was able to thrust his swords in the few seconds it takes to dissolve into the polygon but given that his HP had not only ran out but the system announced that he was dead, it doesn't make sense for him to have survived the experience. Even more so for Asuna who also managed to survive her death which happened at least some moments before Kirito stabbed Kayaba. Now, we do know that there are "revive potions" that can be used within 10 seconds of death if I remember right, so I suppose that the system -might- havey waived Kirito's death, or perhaps Kayaba has done it. Though it's never mentioned. But it's certainly not explained at least in the anime. Honestly, without any foreshadowing (like, say, Neo in the Matrix), I can't help but see overcoming fundamental system rules as plot armour. What makes Kirito and Asuna so special other than the fact that they are lead characters? Admittedly, if Klein was able to break free of the paralysis and use the revive potion that he received from Kirito (allowing him to come back and stab Kabaya), I still would've seen as a plot armour, but it probably would've bothered me less. Because first of all, it's a bit of a surprise foreshadowing (I don't think many people, including Kirito even remember that potion), and more importantly, it's less biased towards the protagonist if others can pull such miracles. I can accept that the main characters (primarily Kirito, but also Asuna to a lesser extent) are powerful because they train off screen. So the issue that I have is that they are too plot protected, and every other characters (good and bad) are there mainly to make them look good. Anyway, apologies for taking this off topic. I was kind of lurking in this forum because having finished season 1 and having mixed impression (in large part due to the characters) I was kind of wondering whether to start season 2. I'll probably give series a break and check out Accel World. And if that one doesn't pick my interest, I'll assume that this is just not my kind of anime ^^; (Recently watched Overlord and that one also left me with mixed impressions) The thing is, Aincrad was so stupidly rushed (specially in the anime) that you don't get to see anything, from Kirito's first day where he almost get killed, to Kirito and Asuna's relationship, the fact that the novel itself was just floors 1, 40~, 74 and 75 doesn't really help. As for Asuna's death, I think their bodies and brains remain there for X time after dying before their Nervegear just fries it, so Kayaba just teleported them out of Aincrad, that's my guess. I think everything is probably going to be explained in Alicization, or at least that's my guess, since we've seen some |
AxBattler said: @Reyxe: That may explain it. Pacing felt rather off and the relationship rushed. I read elsewhere that Sachi was supposed to be Kirito's first love, and while I find her likeable enough, her introduction and demise happened in the span of 20 minutes which doesn't give much time to be properly invested. And while Kirito and Asuna were given relatively more episodes, it still felt like marriage and willing to die for one another came kinda fast. Honestly, I quite liked the world they introduced, and even the basic concept of the story (so much potential), but they should've developed the support characters more. Sadly the anime skipped a lot of material, from first day, to Kirito and Asuna's first meeting and so on... They spend quite a lot of time together in progressive, somewhere around clearing of floors 1, 2, 3 and 4 (I haven't read volume 5) and their relationship is fairly good (they are friends only tho, not lover or anything). I feel that SAO always gets the short stick in anime adaptions, sadly, the novel is really good and entertaining. And yes, Sachi was Kirito's first love, and while I liked her, i'm not sure, their relationship wouldn't have lasted imo, since Kirito says it once "we were cats licking each other's wounds" which is not really a good way to be in a relationship. |
AxBattler said: @Reyxe: Was there anything you thought stood out in regards to how Kirito sees Asuna and vice-versa? Hmmm... Kirito sees Asuna as someone who could lead players, something he can't do because of his personality, and also as someone far stronger than him. Asuna sees Kirito as... at first as an annoyance, then they start to play together, he teaches her a lot and I guess she starts liking him because of their interactions and the time they spent together. |
AxBattler said: Reyxe said: What i'm getting at, it's that the "plot armor" its almost unexistant, he's always helped by someone, Asuna, Sinon, Leafa... Just like people saying how "op" he is, it's stupid to talk about plot armor, well, maybe when Kyouji attacked him, lol In the fight against Kabaya, two things happened that made me think "plot armour", but I am quite happy to hear an explanation (I haven't read the LN): 1. Asuna was able to move and take the hit. Considering that Kabaya was the GM, breaking the paralysis should be completely impossible. This is a gaming world, using the will power to overcome GM control is plot armour IMO, and there just for Kirito's benefit. 2. Kirito coming back to life after his HP had depleted and already cracked into pieces. How come he is the only one capable of doing that? Even if I accept that he is so skilled as a player that he could take on the strongest ALO player until his appearance 1-on-1 in a air duel not long after learning how to fly, while using weaker equipment, coming back to life after the HP is completely depleted also seem like plot armour for a character who has never shown to have the ability to rewrite the rules of the game. And Kabaya (who has decent reaction time) just decide to let himself stabbed by a pretty slow attack afterwards (he might've been surprised, but he still saw the attack coming from far away). It's not impossible, it's virtual reality. Whether you accept it or not this is one of the main thematic of this serie. Human's will has no equal, it is a unyielding system knowing no limits which can empower your own being's preset and even overwrite your close environment as you see it to be by warping, bending, subjugating, overruling the World upon your overwhelming state of mind, for you are Predominating over it. 'Shonen, imagine your strongest form, the stronger you believe, the stronger it will be as such in reality.' The stronger your will is, the more you weigh in the world. It's a power that is much faster named in Accel World, but it was within sao all along. And reminder, kirito didn't explode into pieces, can't people see it's a projection, a picturing of the fate the System is condemned him to this is basically how the deleting process feels llike, scattering of your mind. And about Kayaba, he yearned for a world with 'no limits' and he saw someone exceeding even beyond that, beyond his own dream, so the kid deserves his victory. EDIT: In fact Reyxe basically said everything already~ Honestly, without any foreshadowing (like, say, Neo in the Matrix), I can't help but see overcoming fundamental system rules as plot armour. What makes Kirito and Asuna so special other than the fact that they are lead characters? Your foreshadowing in the anime were, a brainxcomputer device, a virtual world where your mind can dictate actions, reactiontime? The strangeness of this virtual world with 'ghost', sprint and swordskill's limit exceeding, stats and swordskill have preset values so what does it mean that i can sprint faster than his value, what does it mean that i can swing faster than the swordskill's own speed. It's also interesting to note that for a vr world sao is strangely... sensual? kinda visceral? It's a lot about feelings, sensation, talking about foods? Sleep? Flowers? Tears in vr? feeling bodyheat? sunlight? wind? program becoming a I.A. through player's feeling? It's prominent when you read it. Ain't even a spoiler but you actually know 3 guys who can do that tricky thing, kirito, asuna and sinon, well yuuki would at least be able to exceed the swordskill speed anyway. |
|
AxBattler said: What makes it harder to accept for me is *because* it is a VR game. Games are bound are fundamentally bound by rules in it's very nature. Bugs may exist that may result in behaviour outside expectation, but it's an exception rather than the rule, and usually doesn't happen very conveniently. And games, as we know it, doesn't really care about our "will". All the will and time in the world will not allow you to break an unbreakable wall in any known games. I didn't have the impression that Kirito went beyond any in-game limits even when he pulled the Starburst Stream - was he? People were surprised by his dual wielding but not game breaking speed. The only one who did that broke the speed limit in the first arc was Heathcliff and that was still via in-game assist. Aincrad to me seemed like a world (game) where your actions in game is still largely limited by the stats. The mind dictating action and reaction time is also nothing out of the ordinary. IRL, my mind can dictate me to click on the left mouse button, which equates to firing a shot in a game. And by having a faster reaction time than my opponents I will press the button earlier, and if my aim is true, I will hit him before he hits me. However, it still won't allow me to walk through a wall that is not intended to be walked through, or take one more shot once my HP is zero. The thing is, SAO works with the brain itself and the nerve gear was known as a really powerful thing, games nowadays use a processor which has a limited capacity and power, it's man-made so there are limits, while we don't really know how much power the brain may have, Kirito, by focusing only on attacking and increasing his speed, plus the 2+ years of using the nervegear and ~20 hours a day attacking (this was said in the LN, after Sachi's death he just blatantly leveled up for ~20 hours a day) he basically focuses the entire of his brain just on attacking faster, since the brain has unknown capability, then he just overrides the machine and game itself. |
| It's a game but it's a virtual reality first that try to connect with the brain as much as possible, this way the more you're 'fusionning' with the VR the more your reaction time can be enhanced and the more the device is reaching deeper in the brain the more you can make it 'acknowledge' you or rather be on part with it, becoming some kind of subsystem of great outpout power. Gotta understand that the game itself sao and the nervegear have been designed in order to bring out the most of this brain x computer. Just think about it, you connect your brain to a computer, what can happen? The computer is made so your brain can read its entirety but the reciprocal isn't that easy, from some pov your brain can create complex data and if Will can strenghten you irl, then it's not that far fetched that Will could strenghten your own data, visualizing strongly could make the code falter. In brief VR = System32, you = System64 or an abnormal problematic program, you can create amount of data of higher priority, for only a short period, that's like acceleration, the ability to fight and exceed the limits. I didn't have the impression that Kirito went beyond any in-game limits even when he pulled the Starburst Stream - was he? People were surprised by his dual wielding but not game breaking speed. The only one who did that broke the speed limit in the first arc was Heathcliff and that was still via in-game assist. Starbursto Stream, Faster Faster Faster, his swordskill were effectively above what they were supposed to offer, this is how he overwhelmed kayaba during their first duel, the anime made it looks like he beat him through enhanced strenght though, there is no way kayaba would lose to a skill he designed, that's why this abnormality surprised him. Aincrad to me seemed like a world (game) where your actions in game is still largely limited by the stats. On the outside, it's a rpg after all, your level says it all but there is a lot more you can do with some willingness and readingness, expanding your stats through will, that's why kirito can be considered op, because he's so fully immersed into VR that his reaction time is honed, that he can empower his swordskill, that he can he can 'feels' your presence hidden way behind him, divide sounds he hears and focus on the smallest abnormal one. The mind dictating action and reaction time is also nothing out of the ordinary. IRL, my mind can dictate me to click on the left mouse button, which equates to firing a shot in a game. And by having a faster reaction time than my opponents I will press the button earlier, and if my aim is true, I will hit him before he hits me. And what if in a virtual reality through sheer power you could force your movement to accelerate further, you surely can imagine your punch going way faster than your body, if this thought could hold weight, would it push my arm further~?If kirito is able to visualize his strongest, asuna is able to visualize her fastest. However, it still won't allow me to walk through a wall that is not intended to be walked through, or take one more shot once my HP is zero. Not playing a lot of rpg? notably the Soul serie, it's funny to see that when you take a lethal attack you're dead before all of your hp reach zero and even at zero you're not feeling totally dead, all of this to say that in sao it translates to some kind of agony state(transparent state) before the dude scatter, the scattering process litterally tear apart your mind, trying to sink your consciousness, so what if you're now your avatar, would it be possible to struggle against this deleting like struggling against fatigue? |
Lap1Jun 9, 2016 5:36 PM
|
| EDIT: Jesus Christ I just saw how old this thread is. My b. diu613 said: Recall the scenes when he overcome the system. Oh, you mean when he cheated? He didnt even use dual sword when dueling with yuuki. Dual sword is what make him unique and badass You mean what makes him overpowered and gives him and unfair advantage over every other player because he is the only one with this ability? Sure, you could argue the same for Yuuki with her combo, but anyone can devise a combo. Only Kirito can use two swords. . People say that the author has answered in his perspective and saids he isnt confident on fighting yuuki, or cant win etc... btw that setting was set on 2005. Yuuki has 11 combo. Kirito has skill connect, one hand does a 6 combo sword skill and the other hand odes another 6 whts the result ? And he can do that for 4/5 times. Do u think he can win now ? do u think he can overcome the limit and beat yuuki. If there's one thing I took away from SAO, it's that Kirito always wins. Guys come on ! Kirito fought to live for 2 years. You are telling me a girl who just plays for more than 2 years can beat someone who has experienced war. Oh hell no. The author would never allow that. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Sword Art Online II Episode 22 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Dec 6, 2014 |
546 |
by amf85
»»
Apr 30, 2:56 AM |
|
Poll: » Sword Art Online II Episode 14 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Oct 4, 2014 |
432 |
by amf85
»»
Apr 29, 12:24 AM |
|
Poll: » Sword Art Online II Episode 12 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Sep 20, 2014 |
286 |
by amf85
»»
Apr 28, 9:38 PM |
|
Poll: » Sword Art Online II Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )tsubasalover - Sep 6, 2014 |
418 |
by amf85
»»
Apr 28, 3:22 PM |
|
Poll: » Sword Art Online II Episode 9 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Aug 30, 2014 |
515 |
by amf85
»»
Apr 28, 2:33 PM |