| Why Archer, or Saber? Ryougi Shiki would obviously make a good assassin, and so would Tohno/Nanaya Shiki. Actually, they would be really hax if they were summoned as servants, since their MEoDP would be able to kill servants no problem. |
Arkane said: Why Archer, or Saber? Ryougi Shiki would obviously make a good assassin, and so would Tohno/Nanaya Shiki. Actually, they would be really hax if they were summoned as servants, since their MEoDP would be able to kill servants no problem. ASsassin is crap class with bad stats, targeted at master-killing. Ryogi-Shiki's haxx abilities would be gimped at it. Saber would give best stats to her. ARcher allow full spectrum of haxx powers she posesses. |
 |
Fai said: Arkane said: Why Archer, or Saber? Ryougi Shiki would obviously make a good assassin, and so would Tohno/Nanaya Shiki. Actually, they would be really hax if they were summoned as servants, since their MEoDP would be able to kill servants no problem. ASsassin is crap class with bad stats, targeted at master-killing. Ryogi-Shiki's haxx abilities would be gimped at it. Saber would give best stats to her. ARcher allow full spectrum of haxx powers she posesses. Pretty sure you can't just choose whatever class you want. You have to fit in that sort of role, exception being berserker. Ex. Cú Chulainn(Lancer) can't be a Saber since he doesn't fight with a sword, etc. Archer is out of the question since she doesn't even shoot projectiles. Well, Saber is possible, but I say assassin because... Remember Sasaki Kojirou? He's an assassin, but fights using a katana, and is badass enough to repel Berserker. I see no problems with having Ryougi Shiki has assassin. Tohno/Nanaya Shiki even more so for his style. |
Arkane said: Fai said: ASsassin is crap class with bad stats, targeted at master-killing. Ryogi-Shiki's haxx abilities would be gimped at it. Saber would give best stats to her. ARcher allow full spectrum of haxx powers she posesses. Pretty sure you can't just choose whatever class you want. You have to fit in that sort of role, exception being berserker. Ex. Cú Chulainn(Lancer) can't be a Saber since he doesn't fight with a sword, etc. Archer is out of the question since she doesn't even shoot projectiles. Well, Saber is possible, but I say assassin because... Remember Sasaki Kojirou? He's an assassin, but fights using a katana, and is badass enough to repel Berserker. I see no problems with having Ryougi Shiki has assassin. Tohno/Nanaya Shiki even more so for his style. ARcher is not "just" defined as a ranged class. Its class that is defined by widest variety of NP's and abilities. Saber is defined by highest overall stats and MR. It has nothing to do with swords,but the class IS most fitting for close range melee. The parts of your legend do determine what you can fit as - if Ryogi ever threw a sword or a knife, she fits. Cu can't be Saber, but his F/0 counterpart can, for example, even if he still is not fighting with swords. Likewise Assassin's advantage is that its harder to detect at cost of stats. Sasaki Kojirou is not "normal" servant. And repel=/=beat. As assassin Ryogi's power would be gimped and her stats would be closer to normal human. |
|
Fai said: ARcher is not "just" defined as a ranged class. Its class that is defined by widest variety of NP's and abilities. Oh, I didn't know Ryougi possessed a "wide variety of NP's and abilities." Aside from her Kanesada Kuji Katana which can cut through barriers, and MEoDP, do tell me what they are. Fai said: The parts of your legend do determine what you can fit as - if Ryogi ever threw a sword or a knife, she fits. True, she did throw a knife that one time against Araya as a surprise attack, but if you call that good enough for being an Archer than... that must be one boring Archer. By that logic, Saber could be an Archer if she happened to throw a piece of meat at some guy in anger, since it counts as a projectile. It simply doesn't work like that. Fai said: Cu can't be Saber, but his F/0 counterpart can, for example, even if he still is not fighting with swords. F/Z Lancer, and F/SN Lancer are two entirely separate beings. F/Z Lancer might be able to be a saber if he has some experience with swordsmanship. Much like how F/SN Lancer can be a Caster as he is experienced with using runes. Fai said: Saber is defined by highest overall stats and MR. It has nothing to do with swords,but the class IS most fitting for close range melee. Saber must have some experience with swordsmanship to even be a Saber. "The qualifying conditions require the Heroic Spirits to have legends as a knights of the sword, and it is the class that requires the highest levels of attributes in all but the Magic attribute." Tell me a case where a Heroic Spirit was made a Saber, but didn't possess a blade of some sort. At any rate, Ryougi Shiki can be made a Saber class. Should just drop this point. Fai said: Likewise Assassin's advantage is that its harder to detect at cost of stats. Where did you get this? True, Assassins gets the Presence Concealment skill, but not at the cost of stats. The only reason their stats are so low, is due to not having legends as heroes, and they're all based on Zabaniya who has low stats to begin with. Fai said: Sasaki Kojirou is not "normal" servant. Right, right. But this is all hypothetical anyways. Fai said: And repel=/=beat. Sasaki Kojirou would have killed Saber if Saber had not dented his katana, so no he is quite powerful. Berserker is a special case, where anybody who tries to face him would get stomped, unless that person is Gilgamesh. Being able to even repel him is a great feat. Saber could beat him because she possessed a really powerful NP. And well, it wouldn't matter since Ryougi would be sporting her MEoDP. I wonder what rank that would be, A++? EX? Her MEoDP by nature would best fit assassins, since that's where they would be most effective in. Surprise attack with an OHKO skill. |
ShinsoPriestJul 30, 2014 12:59 PM
Forgetfulness said: Reading some of these posts, I just remembered something How did Assassin + Caster fend off Berserker again? Just looking at Berserker's sword and strength, Sasaki Kojirou's sword would have been a bent piece of metal by the end if Saber's Excalibur can dent it Not really sure, kinda wish they'd had shown that part in the VN. Sasaki Kojirou having the higher ground must have something to do with it. Actually, It can just be explained by Sasaki Kojirou's shear talent with his blade. The only reason Sasaki's blade was bent against Saber was because he wanted to clash head-on with Saber, influenced by her spirit in battling. A blade like Sasaki's is actually quite fragile, but the way he uses it overcomes that weakness. |
ShinsoPriestJul 30, 2014 1:05 PM
Forgetfulness said: Reading some of these posts, I just remembered something How did Assassin + Caster fend off Berserker again? Just looking at Berserker's sword and strength, Sasaki Kojirou's sword would have been a bent piece of metal by the end if Saber's Excalibur can dent it Situational advantage. All they needed was to hold their positions. THey did not need to BEAT berserker. I am quite sure they are capable of that. If it was fight to death Berserker would squash both. Arkane said: Fai said: ARcher is not "just" defined as a ranged class. Its class that is defined by widest variety of NP's and abilities. Oh, I didn't know Ryougi possessed a "wide variety of NP's and abilities." Aside from her Kanesada Kuji Katana which can cut through barriers, and MEoDP, do tell me what they are. Her MODP would be strongest as Archer, while as Assassin for all we know it would be sealed. Hassan having a monopoly for the class throws a wrench into speculation. True, she did throw a knife that one time against Araya as a surprise attack, but if you call that good enough for being an Archer than... that must be one boring Archer. By that logic, Saber could be an Archer if she happened to throw a piece of meat at some guy in anger, since it counts as a projectile. It simply doesn't work like that. If she ever shot a bow, Arthuria could, but since she has no NP's fit for that, she could not. And she would be gimped at the class because apart of Excalibur and Caliburn her NP selection sucks. Also if we go about Archers who do not fight at range - are you calling FSN Archer boring? F/Z Lancer, and F/SN Lancer are two entirely separate beings. F/Z Lancer might be able to be a saber if he has some experience with swordsmanship. Much like how F/SN Lancer can be a Caster as he is experienced with using runes. Thank you for quoting textbook information that everyone knows. Does not help your argument anyway. Saber must have some experience with swordsmanship to even be a Saber. "The qualifying conditions require the Heroic Spirits to have legends as a knights of the sword, and it is the class that requires the highest levels of attributes in all but the Magic attribute." Tell me a case where a Heroic Spirit was made a Saber, but didn't possess a blade of some sort. Yet again that does not refute my point, since Ryogi's blade is not what is special about her. At any rate, Ryougi Shiki can be made a Saber class. Should just drop this point. No one ever disputed that. Where did you get this? True, Assassins gets the Presence Concealment skill, but not at the cost of stats. The only reason their stats are so low, is due to not having legends as heroes, and they're all based on Zabaniya who has low stats to begin with. Its master-killing class. Stealth is its focus. Pure logic dictates that it can't have stat advantage since its Saber thing, nor magic advantage since Caster, nor unique variety of abilities, since Archer. Right, right. But this is all hypothetical anyways. Him being a familiar is not. Sasaki Kojirou would have killed Saber if Saber had not dented his katana, so no he is quite powerful. Berserker is a special case, where anybody who tries to face him would get stomped, unless that person is Gilgamesh. Being able to even repel him is a great feat. Saber could beat him because she possessed a really powerful NP. Saber would be utterly fucked against berserker if not the kills beforehand. And well, it wouldn't matter since Ryougi would be sporting her MEoDP. I wonder what rank that would be, A++? EX? If she is Archer, maybe. Otherwise it would be gimped. |
AhenshihaelJul 30, 2014 1:14 PM
|
Fai said: Her MODP would be strongest as Archer, while as Assassin for all we know it would be sealed. Hassan having a monopoly for the class throws a wrench into speculation. Explain to me how it would benefit her as an Archer, as opposed to Assassin. And how would you know her MEoDP would be sealed as an Assassin? The thing is a part of her. Much like Medusa's Mystic Eyes. Sounds like you just pulled that out of nowhere. Fai said: If she ever shot a bow, Arthuria could, but since she has no NP's fit for that, she could not. And she would be gimped at the class because apart of Excalibur and Caliburn her NP selection sucks. Of course, but what you're saying is " if Ryogi ever threw a sword or a knife, she fits." Gimped or not is not the question, it's whether she can qualify. Actually, Hassan throws knives(Dirk) too! So that means he can be an Archer as well, right? Fai said: Also if we go about Archers who do not fight at range - are you calling FSN Archer boring? I'm not quite sure how you can compare some person throwing a single knife, to Archer who can rain a storm of blade projectiles, and then some. Fai said: Thank you for quoting textbook information that everyone knows. Does not help your argument anyway. Then I have no clue what you were getting at by mentioning F/Z Lancer. Fai said: Yet again that does not refute my point, since Ryogi's blade is not what is special about her. It's not, it's her MEoDP, which benefits more from surprise attacks. Her blade is just an extra. Fai said: Its master-killing class. Stealth is its focus. Pure logic dictates that it can't have stat advantage since its Saber thing, nor magic advantage since Caster, nor unique variety of abilities, since Archer. Yes, and pure logic states that Ryougi Shiki isn't strong enough to actually be effective as a Saber, nor have a wide variety of abilities as an Archer. She isn't bred for battle like Arturia, nor sporting an armada of projectiles like Gilgamesh or Archer. And her legend as a Heroic Spirit wouldn't mention that either. Also, logic would dictate that stealth+MEoDP which is an effective OHKO hax move, would be more effective. It would be able to kill servants too, can't you see? Fai said: Saber would be utterly fucked against berserker if not the kills beforehand. Other way around, dude. Berserker would be utterly raped if Saber was in top condition, and had access to her full-powered Excalibur. Something which couldn't happen because Saber was so gimped by her clueless master, and lack of mana. Shirou's projection of Caliburn took out 7 of his lives. A projected Caliburn. Imagine what a real full-powered Excalibur could do, yeah? Even in the bad end where Saber does try to use Excalibur, Illya admitted that had she been in her top condition, Saber could have killed Berserker. Fai said: If she is Archer, maybe. Otherwise it would be gimped. Really? Enlighten me on how she would be gimped. |
ShinsoPriestJul 30, 2014 2:02 PM
| Le sigh, the utter amount of bullshit i put up with. Of course, but what you're saying is " if Ryogi ever threw a sword or a knife, she fits." Gimped or not is not the question, it's whether she can qualify. Actually, Hassan throws knives(Dirk) too! So that means he can be an Archer as well, right? Hassan is Hassan. Ryogi's skillset works as an Archer, since her NP is not a giant sword and we have close range Archers already. I'm not quite sure how you can compare some person throwing a single knife, to Archer who can rain a storm of blade projectiles, and then some. Does not matter, since he prefers close combat mixed with mid-range projectiles anyway. By your logic that's boring and should not be possible. Then I have no clue what you were getting at by mentioning F/Z Lancer. That your justification of classes via FSN Lancer is bullshit. It's not, it's her MEoDP, which benefits more from surprise attacks. Her blade is just an extra. Thank you for proving my point. Yes, and pure logic states that Ryougi Shiki isn't strong enough to actually be effective as a Saber, LOL. I am sorry, I am going to go outside and laugh for a while. Ryogi Fucking Shiki. Said to be able to defensively fight multiple servants. Is not strong enough. To be a class which was not even the strongest in the both wars we have seen. Gimme a fucking break. nor have a wide variety of abilities as an Archer. MODP. THe things she can kill makes her very versatile fighter. Versatility is Archer. Also, logic would dictate that stealth+MEoDP which is an effective OHKO hax move, would be more effective. It would be able to kill servants too, can't you see? Not if its gimped. Other way around, dude. Berserker would be utterly raped if Saber was in top condition, and had access to her full-powered Excalibur. Something which couldn't happen because Saber was so gimped by her clueless master, and lack of mana. That's some serious Saber-wank as expected of MAL community, but nope. Sorry, nope. Unless you give Saber to someone with infinite mana (ex: ) and the said master continuously pumps power into her, essentially turning excalibur into Zelretch Cannon 2, Saber besting Berserker only happens in wet dreams of Saber fanboys. Full-lives Bahsar-car would fuck-her up(and Bahsar-car as Saber or Archer would one-shot Arthuria as Saber). So would srs-Gilgamesh. So would smart Rider(who does not get affected by plot and git her time to charge her np). Saber is not winning against full Berserker. Excalibur is strong, but unless you are Illya or someone as haxx, you are not taking off all lives at once. And afterward, even if one life is left, you die. Really? Enlighten me on how she would be gimped. Selection of NPs also depends on class. Archer has most versatile choices since its Class of Ability. Saber is class of Power, so she has less NP choices and more stat advantage(which is useless since its all about abilities anyway) |
|
| Ah. Power level discussion :) You all are wrong since Archer Madoka wins anyway. |
 |
Botato said: Only if you are a not yet born witch.Ah. Power level discussion :) You all are wrong since Archer Madoka wins anyway. |
Botato said: Ah. Power level discussion :) You all are wrong since Archer Madoka wins anyway. |
 |
Botato said: Ah. Power level discussion :) You all are wrong since Archer Madoka wins anyway. Depends on if Unlimited Butcher Works or Sane people. If first, Madoka can't win because that's just not edgy. |
|
HeisenDurden said: Damn, I like this. I also love the internet and all the cool stuff on it :)Botato said: Ah. Power level discussion :) You all are wrong since Archer Madoka wins anyway. Fai said: I'm pretty sure Unlimited Butcher Works has enough edge.Depends on if Unlimited Butcher Works or Sane people. If first, Madoka can't win because that's just not edgy. ssjokg said: Hence I said Madoka, not Gretchen something something (the name of the stupid cage like witch).Only if you are a not yet born witch. |
|
Botato said: Fai said: I'm pretty sure Unlimited Butcher Works has enough edge.Depends on if Unlimited Butcher Works or Sane people. If first, Madoka can't win because that's just not edgy. Nope. Unless its Lucifer-analogies and despair, something something, its not edgy enough. GOtta redo it. |
|
Fai said: Does not matter, since he prefers close combat mixed with mid-range projectiles anyway. By your logic that's boring and should not be possible. I thought to become an Archer, you needed something that could shoot at range, regardless if you're a close-ranged fighter or not. UBW, GoB, and stuff. What, are you seriously telling me that just because Ryougi Shiki threw a couple of spare knives, she can become an Archer? Weird class. In that case, F/SN Lancer's reaction against Archer's fighting style would be out of place if that class really is that lax in requirements. Fai said: Ryogi Fucking Shiki. Said to be able to defensively fight multiple servants. Is not strong enough. To be a class which was not even the strongest in the both wars we have seen. Gimme a fucking break. Yeah, Ryougi's third personality, which rarely comes out. Regular Ryougi wouldn't stand a chance in hell of matching a servant even with MEoDP. Fai said: Saber is not winning against full Berserker. Excalibur is strong, but unless you are Illya or someone as haxx, you are not taking off all lives at once. And afterward, even if one life is left, you die. I'm sure Saber could fire off at least 2 Excaliburs in a small time frame. She does that against Gilgamesh in their final fight. Even more so in top condition. Well, I'll believe you if Nasu actually stated that Saber can't best Berserker at full power. Having makes her , can't really count her in this. And I'm more of an Arcueid fan, but whatever. HeisenDurden said: Botato said: Ah. Power level discussion :) You all are wrong since Archer Madoka wins anyway. Lol, genius. |
ShinsoPriestJul 30, 2014 3:52 PM
Botato said: HeisenDurden said: Damn, I like this. I also love the internet and all the cool stuff on it :)Fai said: I'm pretty sure Unlimited Butcher Works has enough edge.Depends on if Unlimited Butcher Works or Sane people. If first, Madoka can't win because that's just not edgy. ssjokg said: Hence I said Madoka, not Gretchen something something (the name of the stupid cage like witch).Only if you are a not yet born witch. To be honest Archer Homura would be more broken. Time hax + Unlimited Firearm Works [spoiler] I am the bullet of my gun Steel is my body and gunpowder is my blood I have repeated over a hundread timelines Unknown to Madoka, Nor known to Kyubey Have stopped time to steal many weapons Yet those hands will never hold anything So, as I pray Unlimited Firearm Works http://i.imgur.com/Ju2dGW7.png?1 |
|
| Archer Mami would be even worse. Dont forget that she has a ribbon that is on par with Enkidu. |
| I'd have to go with Archer Homura's time hax here. Maybe if it worked like Nightmare's in Date A Live. |
| Archer Kyouko. She's snarky, cynical and has the tendecy to "give a lesson" to others who aspire to be a "seigi no mikata". If that not makes her qualified to be an Archer, than I don't know what. |
|
HeisenDurden said: Archer Kyouko. She's snarky, cynical and has the tendecy to "give a lesson" to others who aspire to be a "seigi no mikata". If that not makes her qualified to be an Archer, than I don't know what. I am pretty sure she's lancer. She's too bro to be Archer anyway. |
|
Fai said: HeisenDurden said: Archer Kyouko. She's snarky, cynical and has the tendecy to "give a lesson" to others who aspire to be a "seigi no mikata". If that not makes her qualified to be an Archer, than I don't know what. I am pretty sure she's lancer. She's too bro to be Archer anyway. I thought about that, but that would be too cruel. Rank E luck, remember? |
|
Fai said: ^This.HeisenDurden said: Archer Kyouko. She's snarky, cynical and has the tendecy to "give a lesson" to others who aspire to be a "seigi no mikata". If that not makes her qualified to be an Archer, than I don't know what. I am pretty sure she's lancer. She's too bro to be Archer anyway. Also I think Archer Mami > Archer Homura. And man, I did not expect this turn of events x] |
|
| Mami's not cunning or ruthless enough. Botato said: And man, I did not expect this turn of events x] You were the one who started it. :) |
|
HeisenDurden said: Yes but I didn't expect this.Botato said: And man, I did not expect this turn of events x] You were the one who started it. :) I feel great I guess xD |
|
| I hope they do something significant with her. I felt that they kinda built her up in F/Z that it would be kinda a waste if they didn't give her proper treatment. |
Rigermortis said: I hope they do something significant with her. I felt that they kinda built her up in F/Z that it would be kinda a waste if they didn't give her proper treatment. Considering you are supposed to see F/0 AFTER this, that means jack shit. |
|
Rigermortis said: I hope they do something significant with her. I felt that they kinda built her up in F/Z that it would be kinda a waste if they didn't give her proper treatment.  |
| And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible. |
Fai said: Considering you are supposed to see F/0 AFTER this, that means jack shit. If that's the case I'm not sure why there were discussions about what route Ufotable should be adapting after Fate/Zero. I remember some people arguing Heaven's Feel would have been the best 'sequel' to Fate/Zero. |
Okaishi said: Fai said: Considering you are supposed to see F/0 AFTER this, that means jack shit. If that's the case I'm not sure why there were discussions about what route Ufotable should be adapting after Fate/Zero. I remember some people arguing Heaven's Feel would have been the best 'sequel' to Fate/Zero. Wasn't it Ataraxia being the sequel to Heaven's Feel? |
| ... |
Fai said: Well I saw f/z first, so I kinda just see it in that light, but thats just me I guess.Rigermortis said: I hope they do something significant with her. I felt that they kinda built her up in F/Z that it would be kinda a waste if they didn't give her proper treatment. Considering you are supposed to see F/0 AFTER this, that means jack shit. |
Tsundereppoi said: Wasn't it Ataraxia being the sequel to Heaven's Feel? I thought that was the sequel to Fate/Stay Night in general. But I'm not sure as I haven't read it yet. I was hoping for that translation project to be finished soon, but yeah. |
LastChapter said: Tsundereppoi said: F/HA takes place half a year after F/SN with Rin at London in the beginning. True end of HF has Rin staying in London for 2 years though so...Wasn't it Ataraxia being the sequel to Heaven's Feel? I would just say it's a general sequel. This makes me happy. Now we can stop calling HF as the only canon route. |
| ... |
LastChapter said: Tsundereppoi said: Like what everyone else said, everything is canon.This makes me happy. Now we can stop calling HF as the only canon route. Can I be canon too? |
| ... |
 |
| ... |
Tsundereppoi said: We should save this for future use because I expect a LOT of poeple complaining about Saber and how this series is not a canon sequel for Zero. |
|
Botato said: We have a Rin worship thread, might as well make an "Everything is Canon" thread.Tsundereppoi said: We should save this for future use because I expect a LOT of poeple complaining about Saber and how this series is not a canon sequel for Zero. |
 |
| ... |
| What if they're all canon but |
| And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible. |
JabonHR said: The most canon thing is Rin.What if they're all canon but |
|
Botato said: Rin is everywhere so everything is canon.JabonHR said: The most canon thing is Rin.What if they're all canon but |
| Does this mean that if Rin dies it'll stop being canon? |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 3 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Oct 25, 2014 |
1042 |
by Alice_Huxley
»»
Feb 13, 4:23 PM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 2 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Oct 18, 2014 |
856 |
by Alice_Huxley
»»
Feb 13, 3:14 PM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 12 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Dec 27, 2014 |
2751 |
by keynutil
»»
Jan 29, 9:06 AM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 11 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Dec 20, 2014 |
903 |
by keynutil
»»
Jan 29, 5:00 AM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Dec 13, 2014 |
1630 |
by SanessyAdversary
»»
Jan 19, 12:54 PM |