Who is the better strategist? Lelouch vi Britannia vs. Light Yagami
 vs. Lelouch vi Britannia Lelouch is a formidable opponent, he is highly intelligent, possessing a genius-level intellect, and is capable of devising and executing strategies with incredible speed and precision. Rolo notes that operating the Absolute Defense Territory of the Shinkirō requires complex calculations which he cannot perform, while Lelouch almost makes it look easy. Lelouch is quick to deduce facts from simple clues. In episode 14, when Mao says C.C.'s name, Lelouch instantly comes up with fourteen different possibilities for Mao's identity, including the correct one. Lelouch is also able to predict the Lancelot's actions exactly through his study of their past battles, allowing Kallen and the Four Holy Swords to almost defeat it (only Suzaku's reflexes saved his life). Lelouch is also charismatic and persuasive; as Zero, he is able to win the support of much of Japan's population through well-delivered speeches combined with his ability to make miracles in almost any situation through his superior tactical planning. Light Yagami Yagami Light is a brilliant college student (His name is pronounced Right but it is written Light ).Nicknamed as "Kira", he uses the death note to create his ideal world of justice under him; its new god. Though he looks frail, Light is an extremely athletic person, with an aptitude to find an opponent's weak point. He is locked down in a psychological and complex mind war with L, where the first to have his real identity discovered loses or dies. He used to go out with Takada Kiyomi because she was the only girl who was on the same wavelength as him and had the same level of intelligence which enabled effective communication between them. DEBATE! Courtesy of Kashee & DarkRoseOtaku |
| Light <33 |
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| I'll state my opinion; Lelouch would clearly win, he is superior to Light in every aspect, except perhaps for having a Death Note.. but in all other ways, Lelouch would win. Definitely, I'm 100% certain that it would be so. over and out |
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| Hmmm... Considering my Lelouch-dono-zealotry You'd think i'd instantly go with Zero, but to be honest... It's a tough one. I'd say they are on a very similar level... And most of the comparisions will come out of the "what if's" and "How would A resolve situation B was in", which are pure speculations. If I were to put it this way though, I guess i'd still go for Lelouch. I guess the main reasons are their - you guessed it - psychologies. Light has an easier task actually - he is ready to dispose of any of his pawns as soon as they become uncomfortable. Lelouch never did this on purpose, the emotional strain put on him is greater, and he had to find some work-arounds instead of the easiest solution. You might say that that thing alone is making him the "weaker" one, but if we assume that their "output" scores are the same or the level is not far off, considering all of the circumstances and factors - "You can kill anyone around you if he/she is uncomfortable" gives you quite a bonus really... so it's easier to get a higher score :P Now another thing is which one would win in a battle, and I think it's pretty impossible to predict without more info. It depends on various circumstances, like someone pointed out in... Geass club was it? It depends on things such as: Does Lelouch-dono have his Order of the Black trai Knights? Did Lelouch meet Light? Is Britannia around? - the political situation, is the "ruling force" a ruthless Britannia, willing to destroy anyone who stand in their way, or maybe rather the goody-goverment who cares about everyone's lives and happiness (yeah, right)? Can shinigamis be geassed? :P and various others, though ATM I can't think of anything else. So I guess... Lelouch, yeah. Well... what do you expect from a fanatic such as me? |
MauroxJul 29, 2009 2:49 PM
     -=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=- |
| Oh man, both of them are great strategists but I'll say Light only because his strategy to eliminate L was purely genius. Coming up with a plan that complex really deserves credit. |
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| Nara-sama, You meant the Xanatos Roulette?? ^_^' |
-=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=- |
| Oh shit this will be a long post, gotta love quoting : D Maurox said: Hmmm... Considering my Lelouch-dono-zealotry You'd think i'd instantly go with Zero, but to be honest... It's a tough one. I'd say they are on a very similar level... And most of the comparisions will come out of the "what if's" and "How would A resolve situation B was in", which are pure speculations. If I were to put it this way though, I guess i'd still go for Lelouch. I guess the main reasons are their - you guessed it - psychologies. Light has an easier task actually - he is ready to dispose of any of his pawns as soon as they become uncomfortable. Lelouch never did this on purpose, the emotional strain put on him is greater, and he had to find some work-arounds instead of the easiest solution. You might say that that thing alone is making him the "weaker" one, but if we assume that their "output" scores are the same or the level is not far off, considering all of the circumstances and factors - "You can kill anyone around you if he/she is uncomfortable" gives you quite a bonus really... so it's easier to get a higher score :P Now another thing is which one would win in a battle, and I think it's pretty impossible to predict without more info. It depends on various circumstances, like someone pointed out in... Geass club was it? It depends on things such as: Does Lelouch-dono have his Order of the Black trai Knights? Did Lelouch meet Light? Is Britannia around? - the political situation, is the "ruling force" a ruthless Britannia, willing to destroy anyone who stand in their way, or maybe rather the goody-goverment who cares about everyone's lives and happiness (yeah, right)? Can shinigamis be geassed? :P and various others, though ATM I can't think of anything else. So I guess... Lelouch, yeah. Well... what do you expect from a fanatic such as me? Yep, there are a lot of if's in a battle between these two strategists. And it's a pretty hard task comparing the two, considering that they act on both different scales, and with pretty much different goals. Lelouch is doing everything to free Area 11, and remove the oppressive rule of Brittania, so that his sister may have a good place to live. On the other hand, Light, find a Death Note, tries it out a few times, and then realizes that he could, with this, eliminate all that he finds evil in the world, such as terrorists and other criminals of varying levels. Apart from the differences in their goals. They also operate in different ways, Light uses his Death Note, to eliminate people. To do this he thinks up the necessary procedures and plans to succeed. Lelouch, he goes after the higher-ups, the ones who would be responsible for the oppression, and uses whatever methods and plans that are needed for this. The main differences between their ways of acting, would probably be, as stated before, that Light wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice someone if this person has lost his/her usefulness to him, whereas Lelouch would probably somehow come up with a way to keep the person away without having to kill him/her. Also, yeah, I prefer Lelouch before Light too, a better character overall : p Nara-Sama said: Oh man, both of them are great strategists but I'll say Light only because his strategy to eliminate L was purely genius. Coming up with a plan that complex really deserves credit. Well, Lelouch has also come up with quite a few complex plans, and he also calculates on all different possible outcomes, and devices a plan to compensate for every turn of events that could happen. This, in my opinion, makes him superior to Light. In another perspective, What If Light would be wrong in his calculations, and therefore, since he was sure he was correct, he didn't think of a secondary plan (or third, fourth etc.) as Lelouch would do. This would be his downfall in a strategic war between these two masterminds. Maurox said: Nara-sama, You meant the Xanatos Roulette?? ^_^' That's probably the best of Light's plans : p |
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| abveusly it gana go to lelouch I meen he did what light cudint do |
| Light is more intelligent and capable. The only thing that allowed Lelouch to grasp power was the technology of the universe he was in. Most of his abilities were just there to advance the story and make him more able to deal with Britania. Lelouch's seemingly endless amount of counter strategies are only revealed to the viewer to make him seem more intelligent, and most are never executed. That whole show was a over produced mess. |
| unlike Light, whose strategies weren't revealed to the watchers to make him seem intelligent, they were revealed... well why exactly? Apart from the already mentioned Xanatos Roulette Light pulls every now and then, depending on things that are completely unpredictable, and which - amazingly - still go his way. The only thing that allowed Lelouch to grasp power was the technology of the universe he was in ehm, HELLO? A Strategy is a "Plan of action designed to achieve a particular goal". Using the means you have at your disposal. It's like trying to justify that you lost in chess: "Damn, you only won because you had a Queen! If you didn't I'd totally win, so, like... It doesn't matter, i'm still better!" It's not like he was fighting a bunch of tribal people with mechs. Britannia had the exact same technological level the Black Knights did. Guren - Lancelot. Shinseiken - Cornelia's elite troops. |
-=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=- |
Maurox said: Apart from the already mentioned Xanatos Roulette Light pulls every now and then, depending on things that are completely unpredictable, and which - amazingly - still go his way. That's what I was trying to get at in my post there earlier, if it didn't turn out the way he'd predicted, he'd be screwed, since he wouldn't have come up with a back-up plan. alex264 said: Maurox said: The only thing that allowed Lelouch to grasp power was the technology of the universe he was in ehm, HELLO? A Strategy is a "Plan of action designed to achieve a particular goal". Using the means you have at your disposal. It's like trying to justify that you lost in chess: "Damn, you only won because you had a Queen! If you didn't I'd totally win, so, like... It doesn't matter, i'm still better!" It's not like he was fighting a bunch of tribal people with mechs. Britannia had the exact same technological level the Black Knights did. Guren - Lancelot. Shinseiken - Cornelia's elite troops. If you didn't already, I would be writing pretty much the same right now : p And also, a really great link there xD brings back memories ^^, oh, and to further enhance the truth about the technological levels of the two sides in CG, Britannia actually had the higher level, and the Black Knights occationally got ahold of some stuff from them. |
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alex264 said: That's what backup plans are. You come up with them in case your main plan fails, or to rail everything back into the desired outcome should a different event occur at some point. A strategist lines up a desired outcome, comes up with several plans and back-up plans and judges what action to take under the current circumstances and how everything may affect his future objectives.. Lelouch's seemingly endless amount of counter strategies are only revealed to the viewer to make him seem more intelligent, and most are never executed I pretty much agree with Maurox over there. A brilliant strategist should and will use everything at hand to give their plans an edge, some leeway. Is a strategist stupid now because he made use of all the options, men and technology at his disposal? All the opposite. Now I will concede the fact Lelouch did let rage blind him at some rather important moments, and he made great use of opportunities he did not predict. Then again, the fact he could use unpredicted events to further his overall objective proves he was a good on-the-go tactician as well. |
Leon-GunJul 29, 2009 4:59 PM
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Leon-Gun said: alex264 said: That's what backup plans are. You come up with them in case your main plan fails, or to rail everything back into the desired outcome should a different event occur at some point. A strategist lines up a desired outcome, comes up with several plans, back-ups and judges what action to take under the current circumstances. . Lelouch's seemingly endless amount of counter strategies are only revealed to the viewer to make him seem more intelligent, and most are never executed I pretty much agree with Maurox over there. A brilliant strategist should and will use everything at hand to give their plans an edge, some leeway. Is a strategist stupid now because he made use of all the options, men and technology at his disposal? All the opposite. Exactly, speak the truth, you do. And as I've probably said like.. 3 times now.. Since Light did Not device any back-up plans, and trusted solely in his calculation's correctness, it gives him a disadvantage. |
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| i had to go with Lelouch here...the way that scheme things in the anime were almost unreal and many times were the biggest plot twists in both seasons...Lelouch's ability to create such huge plot twist in code geass with his tactful mind and strategic personality is what reeled me into voting for him...though Light is a good strategist as well...i have to go with Lelouch :P |
| Lelouch, because he wants to die in the end and he die and Light die too but, because he loses xD |
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Kazu-san said: Lelouch, because he wants to die in the end and he die and Light die too but, because he loses xD Correction: Lelouch "wanting" to die.. It's more like, he thinks it would serve the country, since he drew everyone's attention when staging as the new "bad" guy. That way he'd remove the evil and people would actually think that everything had turned out well after all. I don't really think he'd actually "want" to die, but he saw it as the only solution to the problem, and therefore he did it. |
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Oosran said: Kazu-san said: Lelouch, because he wants to die in the end and he die and Light die too but, because he loses xD Correction: Lelouch "wanting" to die.. It's more like, he thinks it would serve the country, since he drew everyone's attention when staging as the new "bad" guy. That way he'd remove the evil and people would actually think that everything had turned out well after all. I don't really think he'd actually "want" to die, but he saw it as the only solution to the problem, and therefore he did it. uhh i dont want to stray off topic...but did Lelouch really die? |
madskizzles said: Oosran said: Kazu-san said: Lelouch, because he wants to die in the end and he die and Light die too but, because he loses xD Correction: Lelouch "wanting" to die.. It's more like, he thinks it would serve the country, since he drew everyone's attention when staging as the new "bad" guy. That way he'd remove the evil and people would actually think that everything had turned out well after all. I don't really think he'd actually "want" to die, but he saw it as the only solution to the problem, and therefore he did it. uhh i dont want to stray off topic...but did Lelouch really die? Well, I'd rather not stray too far off-topic either, but.. I guess it's pretty much up to each and everyone to decide for themselves if he really died or not. Since the producers left it with a somewhat "open" ending, not clearly stating that he actually 'died'. Well, if we get to hear about some Code Geass R3, then we could probably assume he's still alive (what would Code Geass be without Lelouch?), but since there hasn't been any talk about any R3.. It's up to everyone to make a decision for themselves as to wether he's alive or not : ) Back on topic now I suppose : ) |
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| it seems like a fun one, off the bat i feel it has to lelouch mainly because his startegies play out on a large global scale and he was able to control all till the end, light pretty much kept his functions to a smaller local scale yeah he used his powers to affect others around the world but he operated from one region and had one task and objective the whole time... however one thing light does have compared to lelouch is that light is more determined as it was seen light would never give up even in death he was 100% selfish he would sacrifice anyone and everyone for his own good, he seemed to think very little of it as well... lelouch yes sacrificed some his close friends but it took a greater inner strungle he only chose it if he was certain he had no other options... both light and lelouch were also able to "predict the future" as in knowing what they would do with no memory what i'm refering to is light when he gave up the Death Note forgot everything and it all played out "just as planned" and the small time when lelouch uses geass on himself to forget his recent memory and trick mao... idk in the end, tactics wise i would say lelouch because we've seen more of his tactics, while if you ask me who is smarter i would say light just because of his methodical actions and his selfish desire |
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| oh I'm too tired to quote now, I'll just go with the regular "I agree" .. or something. I'm pretty much agreeing to all the points you've stated Maazter : p guess I'll go sleep soon.. it's a little past 4 A.M. local time here xD... I'll see when I wake up what new posts there are here that might start up a new discussion : D |
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| Oosran... Not that I'm trying to be a dick, but I see noone else wants to say this so I guess I will. You do NOT have to post that "You agree" under every other person's post. Also, it would be definitely much better if you actually brought some new arguments/material into discussion. The way You are going... well it doesn't really bring anything new, just increases the post count. Sorry for the offtopic, just thought that someone should make this point ^_^' |
-=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=- |
| Light, of course. Using what he had (that is Death Note, two Shinigamis and a stupid chick who possesses a Death Note), he pulled off way better than Lelouch who had a whole army and mechs and Geass and etc... Light's ability to predict his adversaries moves were perfectly believable compared to Lelouch who prerecorderd a whole conversasion (twice!) where it is unbelievable to predict one's choice of words. A cheap trick that was. Other than that, I still must say that Lelouch's charachter is my favorite, but Light's just smarter than him. |
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| in terms of strategy i'd say light would have to win he just seemed to have to do more thinking than lelouch who's trump card always seemed to be "possess the enemy" |
| the masochist says "hurt me! hurt me!" the sadist replies "no" |
| Light was clever,while Lelounch had to use his geass,and he's not cruel enough so Light could win depending on the circumstances,I love Lelounch though xD |
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| Please read this fully before voting: I suppose Light would win.... I'm gonna analyse it as a match between Kira & Zero.... First lets compare the Geass & Death Note. Maybe the Geass is more powerfull than Death Note....but it can be counteracted by a face mask or sunglasses..... Moreover the geass would require u to be present physically infront of someone bfore using it on them.....but using the Death Note u can kill sitting right at ur room.... Also u can manipulate people's actions for a considerably long period like how Light used the drug addict during the bus hijack incident....so the Deathnote itself's like a half geass.... The name problem can be easily solved using the shinigami eyes & as for the face zero is not a completly hidden figure like Kira.... People don't knw if Kira is a man or woman or for that matter if he's human or not... But Zero on the other hand can be identified as a man with a certain physical build & voice....... So if u observe Zero's interaction with people like Suzaku & Nunnaly it'll be quiet easy for someone of Light's intellect to deduce Lelouch is Zero....so by some means Light should be able to obtain his PHOTO.....without coming in contact with Geass.... And Light is way too intelligent to actually come in contact with him....and even if he did he'll definatly protect his eyes & all he has to do is write Lelouch's name... But Lelouch on the other hand will hav no clue who's Kira.... But the greatest advantage light has is that he has nobody he loves & so will kill anyone who stands in his way....unlike Lelouch who cares for some people..... So if Light targets those whom Lelouch loves like Nunnally he'll considerably hav a upper hand.... So my judgement:Light WINS!! |
Winners and Victims stand alone!! |
| OK.If we change their abilities and put them in their anime.If Light had Geass there was nothing that could stop him.He was meeting with L almost every day.If he used the Geass and told L to kill himself nobody would have suspected him.Like in previous comment Light had only 2-3 people that he could trust and Lelouch had almost an army.Most of the people like Lelouch because he killed himself to change the world and not because he is a great strategist.Also I don't think that it would be easy for Lelouch to face an opponent like L.Don't get me wrong I like the both animes a lot but Light will definitely win in this duel. |
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| wow ... 1st madskizzles ... thnx for choosing my suggestion xp 2ndly sadhana said: A very excellent analysis ...... light is cruel .... nd he'll do anything possible 2 kill zero even if it means killing his own family .... also death note can be used without physical presence of the person ... altho zero was great 2 lead in war .. light can't lead lyk him .... but still he can easily win with death note, twisted plans and by using any means necessary! so light wonPlease read this fully before voting: I suppose Light would win.... I'm gonna analyse it as a match between Kira & Zero.... First lets compare the Geass & Death Note. Maybe the Geass is more powerfull than Death Note....but it can be counteracted by a face mask or sunglasses..... Moreover the geass would require u to be present physically infront of someone bfore using it on them.....but using the Death Note u can kill sitting right at ur room.... Also u can manipulate people's actions for a considerably long period like how Light used the drug addict during the bus hijack incident....so the Deathnote itself's like a half geass.... The name problem can be easily solved using the shinigami eyes & as for the face zero is not a completly hidden figure like Kira.... People don't knw if Kira is a man or woman or for that matter if he's human or not... But Zero on the other hand can be identified as a man with a certain physical build & voice....... So if u observe Zero's interaction with people like Suzaku & Nunnaly it'll be quiet easy for someone of Light's intellect to deduce Lelouch is Zero....so by some means Light should be able to obtain his PHOTO.....without coming in contact with Geass.... And Light is way too intelligent to actually come in contact with him....and even if he did he'll definatly protect his eyes & all he has to do is write Lelouch's name... But Lelouch on the other hand will hav no clue who's Kira.... But the greatest advantage light has is that he has nobody he loves & so will kill anyone who stands in his way....unlike Lelouch who cares for some people..... So if Light targets those whom Lelouch loves like Nunnally he'll considerably hav a upper hand.... So my judgement:Light WINS!! |
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otaku1 said: abveusly it gana go to lelouch I meen he did what light cudint do u r absolutly right..... |
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| Lelouch. He has more people working with him. He brought in the end peace to the world, Light didn't. |
| Dutch anime blogger with a love for Ikuhara's antics and proper storytelling. |
kashee said: A very excellent analysis ...... light is cruel .... nd he'll do anything possible 2 kill zero even if it means killing his own family .... also death note can be used without physical presence of the person ... altho zero was great 2 lead in war .. light can't lead lyk him .... but still he can easily win with death note, twisted plans and by using any means necessary! so light won Thanks!! And yes Light wins... Its just that people who lik Lelouch better vote for him without analysing their strategies....well it can't be helped I guess! |
sadhanaJul 31, 2009 8:49 PM
Winners and Victims stand alone!! |
Oosran said: I'll state my opinion; Lelouch would clearly win, he is superior to Light in every aspect, except perhaps for having a Death Note.. but in all other ways, Lelouch would win. Definitely, I'm 100% certain that it would be so. over and out Totaly agree because Lelouch is a COMMANDER, he is a very nice tactician for the war! |
| Deiciding his life style by rolling the dice. |
| Definitely Lelouch. ^^ |
| Who is the better strategist? i think Kira i have read some of the analyze and where thinking Zero had many ppl with im and he was on the topp ( he had an army), and got very much help from his friends and his army. But in the begining he was making strategist plans alone... Kira was one against L, Near, Mello and Matt + the police. Or he had help from Misa and Teru Mikami, but he did it all by himself, making plans and complete them so my conclusion is Kira did it all by himself, but Zero had help to make strategist plans.. But this is only one meaning out of 1000... and only one analyze from the stories |
| Lelouch vi Britannia "Lamperouge" all the way. I think he definatelly is a better strategist then Light. I might have missed something, but to me it seemed like he had the world in his hands even in death. Lelouch dying was all part of his plan, while Light just plain old lost. So yea, Lelouch definatelly. To Sadhana: That may be true, but only a select few people actually know Lelouch as vi Britannia. Everyone else knew him as Lamperouge. Lamperouge is an alias, so Light would have a small chance of learning Lelouch's true name from the small percentage of people who know his true name and are still alive. Having a Shinigami help him find out Lelouch's name would be cheating and wouldn't prove Light's intelect. |
KidoMasterJul 30, 2009 9:49 AM
Maurox said: Oosran... Not that I'm trying to be a dick, but I see noone else wants to say this so I guess I will. You do NOT have to post that "You agree" under every other person's post. Also, it would be definitely much better if you actually brought some new arguments/material into discussion. The way You are going... well it doesn't really bring anything new, just increases the post count. Sorry for the offtopic, just thought that someone should make this point ^_^' I know, but I like agreeing : D Well it's not that I agree to every other post : o Only those that I actually agree with, as in, those that root for Lelouch xD And well.. I'm usually pretty bored so I don't really have anything better to do >.> |
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| I like both of them,equally.However,I can not,and will not,compare their capabilities (I mean,I WILL but...they were both good at what they did - Geass Or Death Note). Lelouch/Zero,is a brilliant strategist,no doubt but there were times when he lost his calm facade (unlike Light/Kira).I'm not saying it matters but I think that, in order to be an exceedingly smart individual who 'earns his living' as someone who analyzes & creates somewhat-perfect strategics and bases his knowledge upon facts gained through different means,one should always be confident about what they plan to do.Sure,he's a superb chess-player and that,in turn,dictates how he uses his head in certain situations - Life maybe like Chess but every action has a reaction...and it comes at once,not simultaneously like in chess in which players take turns...there is only one decision and you can never turn back.Lelouch/Zero was going through something similar,he was a nicer person - he cared about the people he was close to but he,also,cared about the people,in general.Sometimes,his confidence wavered.The Geass is,indeed,powerful but his use in it was limited and without forethought,sometimes. Now,on the other hand,there's Light/Kira.I would say he was,probably,the most determined wanna-be God I have EVER laid eyes upon.His confidence was unwavering - he had no other care except for himself and himself only.It's like how every player has the desire to win but only the player whose desire is the most overwhelming wins and i believe that' s because of the fact that they try harder - in every way - whether it be strategies or planning or just plain ol' a$$-kicking.Light/Kira was even more accurate then Lelouch/Zero had been but I'll still not compare (even though i may look like it but i'm not,seriously).What Light/Kira has in his favor is...he had a tough opponent (L was a bad-a$$ed genius who was on similar terms as Light/Kira with not only his excellent tactician's side but his obsession & selfish desire to become God of the New World),unlike Lelouch/Zero.Don't forget that Light/Kira was so determined that he killed his own kin - this may not be a fact which determines that he was the better strategist but it determines the fact that he knew his 'kin' had it coming...and he took part in it all.He was a cold,selfish b@st@rd whose analytical intelligence preceded over countless FBI & CIA Agents.I would say he truly is one super-smart dude who can predict what's about to happen in the future with patience & lots of data-gathering.Other than that,he was the King of Manipulators.He had the 'note and he knew how to use it. In the end,I would choose Light/Kira as the better strategist. |
JadedGothJul 30, 2009 1:30 PM
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| OK, It's just... I think we're missing the point here. You are saying that "Light would win", but IMO even if that was true this doesn't automatically means he's a better strategist. I mean the outcome is dependant on various circumstances, like I mentioned in my first post. Besides - Lelouch doesn't lose his cool when his identity is revealed ;) That's a very important asset in strategist's arsenal. Sadhana considers the situations where it is Lelouch who is discovered by Light. However it also depends in what way is Lelouch discovered. Look at last episode of DN again - the biggest blunder that Light did was that he didn't consider that his plan might fail. The thing someone mentioned here earlier - backup plans, and he was so full of himself he wasn't able to stay calm, shouting "I WON!" in the end. I dare to assume Lelouch wouldn't make such a blunder. Another point Sadhana talked about was that "Light is Ruthless, and therefore he would win" - But the topic isn't "who would win", but "Who is a better strategist". Yes, Light is completely ruthless. But that doesn't make him a better strategist. True, it would make his task of beating Lelouch much easier - but the nature of a good tactician is that you win in more dire situation. Many people say that "Light had a harder task because he had only 2-3 people at his side". True. But also, like someone else mentioned - He could operate from his room, without going outside, which would make Lelouch's task REALLY Hard. In fact, let's take a look at this scenario for a second. Now, did Light win? Yes. Did this make him a better tactician? I don't think so. All he really does here is that he relies on others' skills, cheating his way through. In this scenario, Lelouch wouldn't be actually able to win, because everything that happened, happened in a matter of few days, without any public incidents which would draw his attention towards certain things, which would light his little bulb "I'm in danger, I need to protect myself". Also, this proves that having less people at your side can be actually a better situation. Now in last paragraph I'd like to point out something - Kira's successes were dependant largely on the fact that his father was in the police force. Yes, I do remember my statement about "using everything at your disposal" - But let's consider how far would Light get if he actually didn't have that feed on the Police' progress. |
MauroxJul 30, 2009 3:41 PM
-=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=- |
| Lelouch ruled the world and created world peace...Lelouch wins hands down. |
 banana |
| Lelouch of course |
| To KidoMaster: Wat I meant was the Shinigami eyes deal.Aft realizing Lamperouge is an alias Light would hav to make the deal himself or ask one of his followers who hav already made it to see Lelouch's name depending on the situation.It won't be much of a challenge if u ask me. To Maurox: Well Light might hav cracked up towards the end,but thats bcoz he was at a far greater pressure than Lelouch.Being under constant suspicion from people like L,Near & Mello with brainless accomplices isn't an easy thing. But he was very calm & collected all through almost the rest of the series and throughout his battle with L. Comparing to this, Lelouch did'nt hav to battle out against such a combination of geniuses.His challenge was mainly on the millitary field & not for the protection of his identity.Even in millitary decisions he had capable cormades like Todou,unlike Light who had to manage with a bunch of idiots. But Lelouch too went maniacal & sucidal towards the end. And as for being calm when his identity's revealed,Lelouch did lose it on other situations.Like when Nunnally was Kidnapped.Is it like a good strategist to abandon a battle in the middle & go to save a single person? Thats wat I meant when I said Light was ruthless.He does not allow his emotions & personal feelings to get in the way of his goals. And Lights dad might hav served certain purposes,but once L had decided that no communication equipment was allowed in the headquaters his source of information was cut off. Any other use he made of the police force was only aft joining the investigation due to his own talent. But if it was usefull being in the police force,it was also dangerous considering he'll be under constant survillence from L.In fact that was the reason L allowed him on the team. So in my opinion Light faced far greater challenges than Lelouch & even though both of them r geniuses in their own ways,Light stands out as a better strategist. |
sadhanaJul 31, 2009 5:49 AM
Winners and Victims stand alone!! |
sadhana said: To KidoMaster: Wat I meant was the Shinigami eyes deal.Aft realizing Lamperouge is an alias Light would hav to make the deal himself or ask one of his followers who hav already made it to see Lelouch's name depending on the situation.It won't be much of a challenge if u ask me. Light would never make the eye deal no matter the situation. He's too idealogical for that. (Did I even use that right?) Yes, he could use Misa or Mikami to help him but wouldn't that still be cheating? After all he isn't doing it himself. Using the Black Knights would also be cheating. Even if Lights finds out that Zero is Lelouch, which he no doubt would, in a one-on-one battle of wits I believe Lelouch would outsmart Light, find him, and kill him with his Geass. If Light wasn't so obsessed with living long so he can rule long he would make the deal and win. But like I said, he'd never agree to the deal no matter what happens. That is why I think Lelouch would win. Lelouch may have abandoned battle and go after his sister, but that's because the whole reason for doing what he did was for her. Plus, he managed to get things under control afterwards. |
| Hmm... I think that depended on the amount of stress. What he did in the end is that he got ahead of himself, being so assured of his victory. I agree that Lelouch also lost it at the end of season one (Though in not so "spectacular" way), however in the end he still kept to his strategic thinking, making sure he informed the Order of the situation before leaving. As for his subordinates... To be honest, they weren't that great either, considering they lost big time during the battle of Tokyo. True, they weren't on the level of Mikami and Misa, but if I had to describe them I'd say "Slightly above average with certain exceptions" And season two... Oh my God. I really hate discussing it, because there are just so many out-of-character things there... I guess that incident after Nanally became the governor was really kinda embarassing. If I were to defent Lelouch, I guess I'd say that it was a problem of losing will to fight - "What was the point of doing everything I have done up until now? Is there even a reason to continue doing this?". How to say this... It's not a problem of "How should I get out of this one?" but rather "For what reason should I search a solution to this problem"? Not that he couldn't find a solution, but rather that he (this is simplyfied) "didn't want to". And being ruthless... Hmm... I guess I can see what you mean by that, but... well to be honest, now that I think about it, It wasn't really the fact that Light "didn't allow his feelings to get in the way", but rather he didn't have those feelings to begin with. What you said might have been correct if he felt connected to those people, resulting in this train of thought: "I care about that person, but if I don't sacrifice her/him, i'll be in a whole lot of trouble... It pains me, but I have to choose what is more important, that being not mine or her feelings, but the main purpose I started this war". To be honest, Light is pretty similar to Lelouch in the way that he cares more about what he really holds dear than his objectives. Just that in case of Lelouch-dono that thing was life of other people, in case of Light it was his own life. I still defend Lelouch, considering Light did alot of blunders at the very beginning, making L's job a whole lot easier (Yeah, I am going to be stubborn about that one. Really, Light? A Detective that never shows his name or face in public shows up on television only to declare war? He should've known something is fishy there). |
-=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=- |
sadhana said: kashee said: A very excellent analysis ...... light is cruel .... nd he'll do anything possible 2 kill zero even if it means killing his own family .... also death note can be used without physical presence of the person ... altho zero was great 2 lead in war .. light can't lead lyk him .... but still he can easily win with death note, twisted plans and by using any means necessary! so light won Thanks!! And yes Light wins... Its just that people who lik Lelouch better vote for him without analysing their strategies....well it can't be helped I guess! yep u r right ... i lyk lelouch better ... but i still thnk light winz |
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| nd btw ... some guys r missing the point ... v are talking abt who is better "strategist" not who is better man or who got more resources .... having more army or better tech dznt make u a better strategist! |
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| but quality*quantity of your people affects whether you are a better tactician. The more "friendly" circumstances you have, the less you have to think how to use them to your advantage :P This is why I said that it's mostly based on speculations. We'll never know which one would win, because a) they would never clash against each other b) They wouldn't clash against themselves in real world. Their circumstanes, which could affect the outcome greatly, are being decided on by the writer, therefore he can make them either of them win, even keeping their natural strengths/abilities. |
-=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=- |
| To Kidomaster: But strategies r all about using the circumstances & people around u to ur greatest advantage.So it will NOT be cheating if Light can manipulate Misa or mikami to use the shinigami eyes for him.Same goes for Lelouch,using the black Knights won't be a cheating.Then in that case,as u yourself hav said Light will win. To maurox: Yes u r right in saying their victory depends on the writer.... But even then I think Light was a better tactician. As u said most of Lelouch's subordinates were'nt that great either,but some were really good like Kallen & as for the others, well they were atleast good enough to be trusted with the situation,when Lelouch had to go save his sister.But Light's subordinates will never b able to take over if he had an emergency...he's always had to direct them. Yes Lelouch did lose it in season 2.But this was when he realized his battle was no longer just for Nunnally.If he had realized this at the end of season 1,then he would hav won the battle long ago. He lacked a clearly defined motive from the begining & changed it in the middle.But Light as a good strategist should, had a well defined goal: To be God & rule the world. And to attain this goal he had to live and thats why he holds his life dear. And yes Light did make a blunder of revealing himself to L.But that also alerted him that L was on his trail. But then again Lelouch too was almost outsmarted & caught by Cornelia & if CC had not dressed as Zero &saved him,he might hav well been history. Thats another advantage he had:CC.I wonder how he would hav been if he did'nt hav CC as accomplice on many situations. Also again when they used the Genfuin disturbers *sorry for the spelling* to trap Suzaku,he entered the area to negotiate with Suzaku & never thought wat would hav happened if something went wrong, their own knightmares will get trapped & won't be able to aid him.He also did'nt think about the possiblity of air attack. Comparing to this Light's mistakes were few,considering he had to battle out against some supergeniuses alone. Even in the end only Mikami's blunder helped Near get hold of the Death Note.This again illustrates the strain on Light due to lack of capable or atleast average subordinates. Well we may never knw the outcome of Light vs Lelouch.... But, in the end Light managed much more trickier situations than Lelouch,with much less resources & he would'nt hav accomplished this if he was'nt a better strategist than him. To Kashee: Yes even I lik Lelouch ALOT,but as a strategist I'll side with Light. I was begining to think this debate was a bit one sided with majority going for Lelouch,but I'm glad there r some who can take Light's side with me ^_^ |
sadhanaAug 1, 2009 4:50 PM
Winners and Victims stand alone!! |
| it's lelouch. i had never saw light playing chess in the anime XD guys who play chess and wins a lot are good at strategics. |
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