| There are a lot of reasons why they might kill Wisp over another player. It's possible he was townier. But it's also possible that he was more correct in his reads. Or that some of us are barking up the wrong tree. Or there was fear of a doctor/watcher. Or wine, in general. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
RE said: I got lazy after the lynch. Free time is a luxury anymore now days. Will give thoughts and such after a bit of review. Reminder for @ironace and @Kiiruma to provide a reads list. Throw in @Astros as well. Please don't be inactive >.> As for the Wisp kill. I believe to vet some of the possibilities we should ask ourselves which is most advantageous. What does Mafia stand to gain. |
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| Where I'm at. Astros said: One possibility I have been considering is Kiiruma is town and I am tunneling him incorrectly (why Wisp was killed over me - to leave me alive to mislynch him). Ultimately I would prefer not to rely solely on Wisp's kill to work off this theory though. Another is ironace is scum, and Wisp was the pushing him the most besides Phraze (who is a bit more difficult to read, and I think was being townread more than her).RE said: I got lazy after the lynch. Free time is a luxury anymore now days. Will give thoughts and such after a bit of review. Reminder for @ironace and @Kiiruma to provide a reads list. Throw in @Astros as well. Please don't be inactive >.> As for the Wisp kill. I believe to vet some of the possibilities we should ask ourselves which is most advantageous. What does Mafia stand to gain. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
| I have another suspect in mind but before that, @ironace your post after vc seems like you had something you wanted to do. What was it? I can't think of other reason why someone would sound frustrated for missing phase change besides wanting to vote. Who was it that you planned on voting? |
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RE said: It's a fair possibility and tactic to keep troublesome town alive to lead others astray. However, it's not something that can be relied upon unless you intend to push them in the right way. If you have a firm belief in that theory,be sure to gauge how others interact with you and whether it's genuine or to influence.One possibility I have been considering is Kiiruma is town and I am tunneling him incorrectly (why Wisp was killed over me - to leave me alive to mislynch him). Ultimately I would prefer not to rely solely on Wisp's kill to work off this theory though. Another is ironace is scum, and Wisp was the pushing him the most besides Phraze (who is a bit more difficult to read, and I think was being townread more than her). I think a more likely scenario and motive of Mafia would be to target power roles and or the more active/aggressive. Wisp was active enough from what I recall, and aggressive to boot. That can work in Mafia's favor if it's against the wrong people, but can pose a problem if not. Especially if said confidence is backed by security from night kills. I'll need to review Wisp's play further. |
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RE said: Karote less than yurkin?Where I'm at. |
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RE said: i agree with you on the possibility that ironace is scum, but on kiiruma im not so sure, scum could not possibly be sure that youd be able to get everyone or even a few people to train with you on kiiruma, so I highly doubt that scum kept you alive in order to attempt to mislynch kiirumaWhere I'm at. Astros said: One possibility I have been considering is Kiiruma is town and I am tunneling him incorrectly (why Wisp was killed over me - to leave me alive to mislynch him). Ultimately I would prefer not to rely solely on Wisp's kill to work off this theory though. Another is ironace is scum, and Wisp was the pushing him the most besides Phraze (who is a bit more difficult to read, and I think was being townread more than her).I got lazy after the lynch. Free time is a luxury anymore now days. Will give thoughts and such after a bit of review. As for the Wisp kill. I believe to vet some of the possibilities we should ask ourselves which is most advantageous. What does Mafia stand to gain. |
| @re i provided my list and also people i suspected in a later post, however i will do so again later on (i just came back home after a 12 hour drive and my ass hurts and i jsut want to sleep) @aa-dono I wanted to make it in time so that if the need arised, i could alos place my vote. However, the need never cam as u guys were confidant, furthermore, i didnt place my vote as i didnt have a strong case on any one. About the kill, not surprised at all about it, if i was scum i too would go after wisp, because he feels the towniest to me(and was my strongest read). Guess scum thought the same. |
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| Karote has his vote on Korj going for him and that is it. I'm not discounting the possibility of a buss because he voted him at a time where Korj was unlikely to be lynched (he was the first to vote him, I believe.) I was online while yurkin was online and there was commentary between her and Wisp and maybe others that I felt made her town. Paiia and lil_logic moved down because it is day 2 and what I felt made them town day 1 might have been NAI (mostly playstyle) but I went with it anyway because I wouldn't get anywhere with 1 block of neutral. Today I'll play it more safely. You are still as scum partially because paranoia x) Also the fact that your style changed when I started pressuring you. That is, you went more on the offensive and targeted players I was suspecting. I think you've put in a lot of effort, but ultimately effort is NAI. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
ironace said: Hehe. This is actually a bad look for ironace. Why is Kiiruma and Korj of different descriptions when Kiiruma technically would be of the "too little to go on" category as well? Shouldn't Korj be in the "no clue" pile?so idk if ill live long enough, so if itll help town, here are my reads π Karote He was overly defensive for the sake of getting reactions, but now he is back to his usual self? I dont believe i have seen his posts recently(maybe wrong) π Phraze Phraze is phraze, can never get a read on her π PaiiiaRomana It feels like he is in a world of his own(have comparatively unique reads in the begining), separate from others. I dont think i have seen scum do that, so maybe town? π Korjivag too little to go on π RE She is waay more active that compared to her scum games, but sicne i have seen her change her meta as scum before, i cannot say anything with resolve π lil_logic340 no clue π Wisp i have a slight town lean, because of his actvity and his discussions are spread out and not just centered at one place. π Kiiruma no clue π aa-dono people always get the person who says i will/may sheep and he/she becomes a suspect. It has happened to me as well, so maybe im biased but i dont think she is scum, ofc i could be wrong π ironace lost as usual π Astros no clue π yurkin no clue so basically, if i were u guys, i would look into the no clue category from here >_> welp, bye now Also, scum have a tendency of talking about how they can't trust me based off past experience with my scum games. Gwen did it like twice, Kit did it last game. My scum game is horrible, especially wrt my activity. Anyway, I don't mind voting here until something changes. vote: ironace |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
ironace said: About this, what games are you basing this off of?π RE She is waay more active that compared to her scum games, but sicne i have seen her change her meta as scum before, i cannot say anything with resolve edit: Like, where did I change my scum meta? |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
RE said: To explain this further - it sounds like ironace is justifying not going after Korj but keeping Kiiruma as an option to go after.Why is Kiiruma and Korj of different descriptions when Kiiruma technically would be of the "too little to go on" category as well? Shouldn't Korj be in the "no clue" pile? |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
| @everyone I probably wont be able to be active until later tonight sorry :( |
| @everyone I probably wont be able to be active until later tonight sorry :( |
RE said: Hmm, fair.aa-dono said: Karote has his vote on Korj going for him and that is it. I'm not discounting the possibility of a buss because he voted him at a time where Korj was unlikely to be lynched (he was the first to vote him, I believe.) I was online while yurkin was online and there was commentary between her and Wisp and maybe others that I felt made her town.Karote less than yurkin? Paiia and lil_logic moved down because it is day 2 and what I felt made them town day 1 might have been NAI (mostly playstyle) but I went with it anyway because I wouldn't get anywhere with 1 block of neutral. Today I'll play it more safely. You are still as scum partially because paranoia x) Also the fact that your style changed when I started pressuring you. That is, you went more on the offensive and targeted players I was suspecting. I think you've put in a lot of effort, but ultimately effort is NAI. I kinda want to deny the style change but it's not the first time I've been told that heheh |
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| Personally, I don't think ironace and Kiiruma are scum together. It would be one or the other. |
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aa-dono said: That's kind of the feeling I got from ironace's reads list, but I'd want Kiiruma to post more if he's town. Otherwise, he'll have to go.Personally, I don't think ironace and Kiiruma are scum together. It would be one or the other. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
ironace said: What if you were the leading train?@re i provided my list and also people i suspected in a later post, however i will do so again later on (i just came back home after a 12 hour drive and my ass hurts and i jsut want to sleep) @aa-dono I wanted to make it in time so that if the need arised, i could alos place my vote. However, the need never cam as u guys were confidant, furthermore, i didnt place my vote as i didnt have a strong case on any one. About the kill, not surprised at all about it, if i was scum i too would go after wisp, because he feels the towniest to me(and was my strongest read). Guess scum thought the same. Also, you don't care who got lynched? |
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lil_logic340 said: Forgot to respond to this. Say Kiiruma is town. Scum keeping me alive wouldn't just be to mislynch Kiiruma, but also to have my attention be focused on him and not on them. One vote on Kiiruma is one vote off them.RE said: i agree with you on the possibility that ironace is scum, but on kiiruma im not so sure, scum could not possibly be sure that youd be able to get everyone or even a few people to train with you on kiiruma, so I highly doubt that scum kept you alive in order to attempt to mislynch kiirumaWhere I'm at. One possibility I have been considering is Kiiruma is town and I am tunneling him incorrectly (why Wisp was killed over me - to leave me alive to mislynch him). Ultimately I would prefer not to rely solely on Wisp's kill to work off this theory though. Another is ironace is scum, and Wisp was the pushing him the most besides Phraze (who is a bit more difficult to read, and I think was being townread more than her). |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
| Mini-readslist (Please ask me to explain some bits further) 10 = Top town. 1 = Top scum |
| My personality: |
Of course! Right from the start Paiiia has looked at associations and I'm absolutely astounded by what they've produced. In other games I've seen people take longer and so to me they've got town interests due to their comprehensive list. If they continue on tweaking what they have already then we have a huge chance on winning. The only thing which concerns me (And makes me read them slightly lower than you) is that they weren't nightkilled despite how much they did. So mafia didn't see them as much of a threat(?) |
| My personality: |
| Uh oh, for some reason I'm getting a reika-ish vibe from Kiiruma and that's so cute ><. I'll be back when I'm not gonna be biased. |
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Kiiruma said: Examples?7 - PaiiiaRomana - Very experienced and has absolutely contributed to this game in a way which makes me think they have the best interests of town at heart. 6 - Lil_logic340/Karote - I cannot see scum doing what Lil did earlier on, yet as they're fairly new it makes it harder to realise their motivations meaning it's only just about null-lean-town. Karote seems fine with how they've been acting, I've not seen anything which particularly pings me as scum but there's nothing that's been outstandingly townie like the above people You're not going to take into account the fact they voted scum?5 - Yurkin/Astros/Phraze - I think at least 1 scum (Maybe 2) were on a potential counterwagon. Only reason I'm coupling these 3 is that they were on a CW with 2 votes each. Yurkin is probably my slightly stronger scum than the others due to them voting the exact same person as Korj Yurkin's vote on Karote was RVS? AKA it came in the beginning of the phase? The votes on Ironace were placed before Korj became a prime candidate for the lynch? Why does Yurkin voting alongside scum make her more likely to be scum?4 - RE - I've said many times, I can't help what I feel about them. This isn't going to cut it. Besides me thinking you are scum, what else are you basing this read off of?You were inactive. You lied about what I did. You lied about what you did. You didn't respond. What part of me calling that out that makes me scum? 3 - Iron - Illogical in quite a few parts. Potentially mislynch bait who is just crumbling under the pressure however I do not see it Examples of "illogical" please. Also, where do you see him crumbling under pressure?Questions. Why are you not factoring in Karote's and lil_logic's votes that lynched scum into your reads of them? Why do I vote Korj in this scenario, as scum? Why are you considering scum on the counterwagon while simultaneously labeling me as scum, as well as one of the counterwagons (ironace) as scum? Do you think me and iron are scum/scum? |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
| *shrug* I think I can work with ironace. With Kiiruma, I don't think that's going to be possible. Especially since he is ignoring concrete facts. vote: Kiiruma |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
Kiiruma said: It surprises you that someone who lynched scum (Wisp) was killed over someone who did not?Of course! Right from the start Paiiia has looked at associations and I'm absolutely astounded by what they've produced. In other games I've seen people take longer and so to me they've got town interests due to their comprehensive list. If they continue on tweaking what they have already then we have a huge chance on winning. The only thing which concerns me (And makes me read them slightly lower than you) is that they weren't nightkilled despite how much they did. So mafia didn't see them as much of a threat(?) Winning as town requires teamwork and accurate reads. Especially, especially accurate reads. Do you think playstyle alone wins games? |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
Kiiruma said: OooofKiiruma aka PKR the Revealer from that game when I replaced Riku in the ONUW tournament. Friend of Eevee/Exce/Roz. Played a fair bit of mafia and mafia-esque games Skimming through Kiiruma's "ISO" in Easter Egg v2. Getting a lot of similar vibes, especially with the vagueness of his scumreads. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
| And bruh I have 40 games, I'm experienced toooooo |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
| Wisp used to be maf favorite, he gets N1 kill now? surprised again. ironace made illogical kills before (me in Starship) so I'm still on this. Kiiruma is giving me Korj vibes with general'ish reads - Wisp suspected him iirc, but it's hard ro tell if it's a setup. Vote: ironace might go with Kiiruma but he's giving something at least @ironace any suspects? |
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| also... rip Ruu's favorite (tho idk the story) |
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| lilogic and Kii probably not s/s with the gambit stuff. lilogic is suspecting Kii and not vice versa. not gonna townread lilogic yet. some questionable things from lil is: - asked me if I townread them? or just any read idk - gambited but never seemed to pick up on Kii, only Wisp. could've been a real slip but coached out - didn't vote Korj tho suspected 'early on'? asked ppl who is suspect if Korj flipped. looks deterring and from a suspect too. last vote in - wanted me to elaborate on suspicions on her in night phase. more newb!scum than newb!town imo. listed things on lilogic doesn't mean scum, but suspicious. besides looking at Korj wagon. |
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Phraze said: What makes ironace different from Kiiruma, in that case? Wisp was heavily suspecting ironace as well.ironace made illogical kills before (me in Starship) so I'm still on this. Kiiruma is giving me Korj vibes with general'ish reads - Wisp suspected him iirc, but it's hard ro tell if it's a setup. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
RE said: Kiiruma is steadily contributing. ironace has wolfy pop-ins.Phraze said: What makes ironace different from Kiiruma, in that case? Wisp was heavily suspecting ironace as well.ironace made illogical kills before (me in Starship) so I'm still on this. Kiiruma is giving me Korj vibes with general'ish reads - Wisp suspected him iirc, but it's hard ro tell if it's a setup. |
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RE said: Also, you were killed because of your role (the coroner) which was important because the set up was flipless.Phraze said: What makes ironace different from Kiiruma, in that case? Wisp was heavily suspecting ironace as well.ironace made illogical kills before (me in Starship) so I'm still on this. Kiiruma is giving me Korj vibes with general'ish reads - Wisp suspected him iirc, but it's hard ro tell if it's a setup. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
Phraze said: Kiiruma, not really? His pop-ins are just as bad as ironace's. He participated less than ironace day 1. Despite having me and ironace as top suspects, he hasn't bothered asking us any questions.RE said: Kiiruma is steadily contributing. ironace has wolfy pop-ins.What makes ironace different from Kiiruma, in that case? Wisp was heavily suspecting ironace as well. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
RE said: they reacted [to pressure] differently. ironace only ever cased me, and in a very omgus way. Kiiruma seemed lost. ironace wolfyPhraze said: Kiiruma, not really? His pop-ins are just as bad as ironace's. He participated less than ironace day 1. Despite having me and ironace as top suspects, he hasn't bothered asking us any questions.Kiiruma is steadily contributing. ironace has wolfy pop-ins. |
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Phraze said: It's the opposite:RE said: ironace couldn't get advice on kill choice. he didn't think coroner was important. he explained his reasons post-gameAlso, you were killed because of your role (the coroner) which was important because the set up was flipless. ironace said: He called you a "suitable" target.I knew no one was going to protect phraze on n1 though, no one would suspect the scumt o go after the most suitable target on the first night I was soo lucky this game XD ''wtf'' was my reaction when no one doubted me about your alignment. btw, what reason did you have to not protect me :< |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
RE said: suitable in terms of suspecting, not role. he mentioned in discord I think (said he didn't know coroner was important)Phraze said: It's the opposite:ironace couldn't get advice on kill choice. he didn't think coroner was important. he explained his reasons post-game ironace said: He called you a "suitable" target.I knew no one was going to protect phraze on n1 though, no one would suspect the scumt o go after the most suitable target on the first night I was soo lucky this game XD ''wtf'' was my reaction when no one doubted me about your alignment. btw, what reason did you have to not protect me :< |
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Phraze said: Kiiruma has two cases, and responded to me very similarly to how ironace responded to you. Kiiruma's other case, besides the one on me, is on ironace, which might as well be a sheep read of previous suspicions of ironace (not unlike Korj voting Karote).RE said: they reacted [to pressure] differently. ironace only ever cased me, and in a very omgus way. Kiiruma seemed lost. ironace wolfyKiiruma, not really? His pop-ins are just as bad as ironace's. He participated less than ironace day 1. Despite having me and ironace as top suspects, he hasn't bothered asking us any questions. They could both be scum easily. But Kiiruma doesn't seem lost to me. What gave you that impression? |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
Phraze said: Ah, okay. Dunno how he didn't realize that.RE said: suitable in terms of suspecting, not role. he mentioned in discord I think (said he didn't know coroner was important)It's the opposite:He called you a "suitable" target. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
RE said: that's 2 vs 1 case then. minimal effort is ironace lolPhraze said: Kiiruma has two cases, and responded to me very similarly to how ironace responded to you. Kiiruma's other case, besides the one on me, is on ironace, which might as well be a sheep read of previous suspicions of ironace (not unlike Korj voting Karote).they reacted [to pressure] differently. ironace only ever cased me, and in a very omgus way. Kiiruma seemed lost. ironace wolfy They could both be scum easily. But Kiiruma doesn't seem lost to me. What gave you that impression? Kiiruma has a wider range of suspects and is trying to think, whereas ironace made singular focus on me then disappeared. lost in that sense. not clueless. Kii has been consistent in reaction and read, while ironace became 'so sure' about me when pressured. |
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Phraze said: 1. Effort is NAI. It's the content that matters. And it's poor content.RE said: that's 2 vs 1 case then. minimal effort is ironace lolKiiruma has two cases, and responded to me very similarly to how ironace responded to you. Kiiruma's other case, besides the one on me, is on ironace, which might as well be a sheep read of previous suspicions of ironace (not unlike Korj voting Karote). They could both be scum easily. But Kiiruma doesn't seem lost to me. What gave you that impression? Kiiruma has a wider range of suspects and is trying to think, whereas ironace made singular focus on me then disappeared. lost in that sense. not clueless. Kii has been consistent in reaction and read, while ironace became 'so sure' about me when pressured. 2. That consistency is bad. Why not reevaluate his read on me after I lynched scum? Instead, his case on me comprises of "feelings" he had from yesterday. If he is going to shade people for not being on Korj's wagon, like you, Astros, and yurkin, then he most certainly should factor me being on his train. But he is not. He hasn't mentioned it at all. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
| ironace making a readlist after unvoting me looked good, but it didn't have stances iirc. he also didn't look to pressure the unsure list with his vote |
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RE said: Phraze said: 1. Effort is NAI. It's the content that matters. And it's poor content.that's 2 vs 1 case then. minimal effort is ironace lol Kiiruma has a wider range of suspects and is trying to think, whereas ironace made singular focus on me then disappeared. lost in that sense. not clueless. Kii has been consistent in reaction and read, while ironace became 'so sure' about me when pressured. 2. That consistency is bad. Why not reevaluate his read on me after I lynched scum? Instead, his case on me comprises of "feelings" he had from yesterday. If he is going to shade people for not being on Korj's wagon, like you, Astros, and yurkin, then he most certainly should factor me being on his train. But he is not. He hasn't mentioned it at all. then like I said, ironace had no content. worse content if counting omgus vote. Kii didn't omgus or I would've noticed, maybe found u suspect but not 'scum'. u could ask him that urself. but to me, it looks like ur reacting to him suspecting u |
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