| Spear has a large advantage due to range and the impracticability of dual wielding any weapon. I think realistically you would both kill yourselves if you tried to do anything with an actual weapon so I guess option C. |
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RandomChampion said: apatch3 said: RandomChampion said: dankickyou said: DatDanimexican said: There's a reason people didn't dual wield weapons in real life. Yeah lol. Too many people believe that anime fighting is real life. Swords are either used by cavalry who utilized them to deadly affects like Cuiraisiers , sword and shieldmen like Spanish Rodeleros, or two handed sword style (often paired with a good suit of armor) for massive shock like German Dopplesodners. i agree spears/pikes are damn good in military combat however, this is just a 1vs1 fight It doesn't matter, the spear still wins - it's all about range, the swordsman isn't going to be able to get close enough to a skilled spear user. The spear user will always dictate the fight because he can adjust his range. While the swordsman constantly needs to get in range. If he get's close enough he can just be kicked away or off balance. If the swordsman had a shield though he would stand a good chance. Sword + Shield = much more effective than sword + sword. i agree that a spear has more potential than a sword, and that a spear master can beat sword master however, if both have equal skill, the sword user can literally throw the sword (maybe a machete or something) and charge for the kill (with other sword being a real dueling sword, preferably some kind of curved sword) a lot of spear dueling techniques also employ the use of overhead strikes (so it's used like a staff too kind of). can block this with arm and maybe sword and go for the kill. the spear will get more hits, but the sword is deadlier in many more ways (since spear's deadliest motion is a only thrust) Lmao fuck you we're going into matrix mode here. Also the point about overhead techniques is absolutely baseless, yes overhead techniques exist, but when you're taught a technique you are also instantly taught it's weaknesses,you would not use an overhead swinging technique when faced with somebody who is trying to get into close range ^It's easy to imagine a spear master doing so though, because the overhead technique is almost always the finisher in a typical video game combo XD But yeah - with the spear here you would strafe around your enemy and keep him behind the point of your spear while making very small stabs from time to time. Moving backwards and strafing again if he tries to close. AshranQ said: Guys, go read the Ishun vs Musashi fight. Everything about spear vs sword / dual sword.  In this situation - If I had the spear I would literally kick the sword user - see there's a perfect opening, I'd swivel on my front foot and plant a heavy kick on his ass - sending him to the ground. I would then stab him in the upper spine, while he was on the ground. |
apatch3Jun 4, 2013 1:00 PM
apatch3 said: In this situation - If I had the spear I would literally kick the sword user - see there's a perfect opening, I'd swivel on my front foot and plant a heavy kick on his ass - sending him to the ground. I would then stab him in the upper spine, while he was on the ground. Good luck with that. |
| One would have to be highly ambidextrous to dual wield swords. Not also that, but very fucking strong because putting strength into both swords is not an easy task. It leaves openings when you slice too, nobody can dodge a spear forever though. However, it would be a whole different story if it was knives. Dipp-Fish said: One sword and a knife for climbing you mean...Dual swords were originally used by Ninja. One blade would be their combat blade and the other would be sacrificial. The one to be left behind was often used as a tool for climbing ect.... apatch3 said: I agree here.you would not use an overhead swinging technique when faced with somebody who is trying to get into close range ^It's easy to imagine a spear master doing so though, because the overhead technique is almost always the finisher in a typical video game combo XD But yeah - with the spear here you would strafe around your enemy and keep him behind the point of your spear while making very small stabs from time to time. Moving backwards and strafing again if he tries to close. In this situation - If I had the spear I would literally kick the sword user - see there's a perfect opening, I'd swivel on my front foot and plant a heavy kick on his ass - sending him to the ground. RandomChampion said: They pulled out their gladius's because shields. You can't wield a spear with a shield very efficiently compared to a sword.spears are good for formations, but remember - when the phalanx or legion formation broke, they threw their spears away and pulled out their gladius', or were wiped oout Mkayyy said: No, because the spear wielder can just back up and thrust again while the dual sword wielder would have to move forward, risking being open along with it.One bad thrust from the person wielding the spear could grant the duel wielder the victory, so i'd say the duel wielder would win. It all depends on skill level though. |
PeenusWeenusCaimJun 4, 2013 1:14 PM
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| The dual wielding swordsman calls upon the powers of friendship and love and wins by default. |
JonyJC said: The dual wielding swordsman calls upon the powers of friendship and love and wins by default. The spear user would call upon the mighty power of the drill and wins by piercing the heavens with spirits of youth. |
| The most important things in life is the people that you care about |
| Depends on the skill of the fighter, but I would think that the spear would have the advantage. |
 |
| spears was a poor mans weapon easy to use easy to make effective in lines n such swords were mainly used aganst un armor people and as a backup weapon 2h sword was a hard counter to a spear its soul purpose was to counter the spear a bastard sword is a mid ground wich is light enough to use with 1 hand and long enough to use 2 axes were the main weapon to counter plate armor and mail --- if it was a 1vs1 fight and the spear person did not have a shield hands down the numb nuts useing 2 swords like a dickshit most the time for spears to be good, you have to be behind the line or have a shield once the gap is closed a spear loses its edge fast if the person had 2 bastards swords and just throw one down he would have an insane edge over the spear now if the person with the spear was not a low class person that poked people from behind the shield people and knew how to fight in the open in 1vs1 he would have a chance if the spear person used a shield he would probly lose hardcore then it actualy goes into what type of swords the person was dual wielding if he used the correct form of swords an offensive sword and a parry sword and is trained he would have a huge edge if both were in plate mail + chainmail + leather the man who had a dagger or axe would win but in that fight the sword sill has the edge --- now for the spear if the spear was in the correct armor and used a spear made for 1v1 and knew what he was doing it would be fair game aganst a dual wielding sword but if the sword user was also trained in 1v1 and used only 1 sword and had the correct gear he would have the edge but if the spear user was useing a spear made for mass battles and lines and was in a 1v1 fight with a dual wielding sword user the sword user would win (spear users normaly didnt have any armor in mass battles and gives the sword user a huge advantage) it basicly boils down to does the person have the gear for 1v1 (money is a huge factor in this) does the person have the training for 1v1 -- it also was not as un common for people to dual wield as people may think its fairly effective in small battles the fighting styles for mass and small are completely differnt so are the gear swords are amazing weapons in 1v1 wich is why alot of duels people used swords |
Lord_JoshuaJun 4, 2013 11:02 PM
| dont ask questions, just do answers |
Lord_Joshua said: Prove this.2h sword was a hard counter to a spear its soul purpose was to counter the spear if he used the correct form of swords an offensive sword and a parry sword and is trained he would have a huge edge |
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| Hate spears, but I'll have to go with spears. The idea of using a two-handed weapon with two hands sounds better than using two one-handed in each hand. The spear user would have more wrist control and in turn react faster than the person that's dual wielding two swords. But then again, if the swords are fairly light... Oh goddammit. I'm over thinking this. |
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TonyTin said: Lord_Joshua said: Prove this.2h sword was a hard counter to a spear its soul purpose was to counter the spear if he used the correct form of swords an offensive sword and a parry sword and is trained he would have a huge edge the germans made a 2h called something with a Z it was made to cut a spear in 1/2 and keep out of the spears danger range its a zoneing thing you can parry a spear a trust you use your parry sword to ride aganst the spear so you can close the gap its also fairly predictable to know where the trust is going to be and how to dodge it and once the gap is closed the spear loses almost all of its power and the parry sword since its shorter than a normal sword gains a advantage in close range combat you are also better useing some swings with a spear than just nothing but thrusts of the melee weapons a spear is a mid range its goal is to stay out of close melee a sword it matters on the sword it can be a mid range or it can be a close range most are close range wich is where they will want to be a spear is also made to stay mid range wich is hard to do in 1v1 if you have a thrusting spear you will be at a disavantage a spear that is made so you can also use slashing blows can deal with melee users easyer the ranges in melee is baiscly dagger = you kill anyone if you get close enough (the problem is getting close enough) axe/hammer/sword = not as close as a dagger but still close enough spear = has a decent range between you and works well in tightly packed fights lance= more range than a spear but less moability and less accuracy it requires you to be behind people |
Lord_JoshuaJun 4, 2013 11:16 PM
| dont ask questions, just do answers |
| a sword user can also always go to attack the spear route which was a legit strategy steel vs wood steel wins |
| dont ask questions, just do answers |
Lord_Joshua said: spears was a poor mans weapon easy to use easy to make effective in lines n such swords were mainly used aganst un armor people and as a backup weapon 2h sword was a hard counter to a spear its soul purpose was to counter the spear a bastard sword is a mid ground wich is light enough to use with 1 hand and long enough to use 2 axes were the main weapon to counter plate armor and mail --- if it was a 1vs1 fight and the spear person did not have a shield hands down the numb nuts useing 2 swords like a dickshit most the time for spears to be good, you have to be behind the line or have a shield once the gap is closed a spear loses its edge fast if the person had 2 bastards swords and just throw one down he would have an insane edge over the spear now if the person with the spear was not a low class person that poked people from behind the shield people and knew how to fight in the open in 1vs1 he would have a chance if the spear person used a shield he would probly lose hardcore then it actualy goes into what type of swords the person was dual wielding if he used the correct form of swords an offensive sword and a parry sword and is trained he would have a huge edge if both were in plate mail + chainmail + leather the man who had a dagger or axe would win but in that fight the sword sill has the edge --- now for the spear if the spear was in the correct armor and used a spear made for 1v1 and knew what he was doing it would be fair game aganst a dual wielding sword but if the sword user was also trained in 1v1 and used only 1 sword and had the correct gear he would have the edge but if the spear user was useing a spear made for mass battles and lines and was in a 1v1 fight with a dual wielding sword user the sword user would win (spear users normaly didnt have any armor in mass battles and gives the sword user a huge advantage) it basicly boils down to does the person have the gear for 1v1 (money is a huge factor in this) does the person have the training for 1v1 -- it also was not as un common for people to dual wield as people may think its fairly effective in small battles the fighting styles for mass and small are completely differnt so are the gear swords are amazing weapons in 1v1 wich is why alot of duels people used swords Swords were not just used against unarmored foes. They were used against a wide variety of foes. Cavalry especially used swords to deadly effect. 2 handed swords, youre talking about the Zweihander I assume was used to killed shit. Its ability to counter pikemen was known but it was a result of it being used to kill shit not its sole purpose. Axes were not the main weapon to counter plate armor. The best weapons against armor for the infantrymen were halberds and poleaxes. Wrong. we have evidence of spears being used against swords in dueling effectively. Wrong. Spears have been used out of formation multiple times. No he wont have insane edge over the spear and throwing swords are for idiots. Wrong and wrong again. Many modern weapon martial artist have spoken on the difficulty of fighting a decent spearman. Evidenced from their numerous sparring. Why the hell would he have chain and leather if he was wearing plate? That made no sense. And if they were wearing plate the swordsman can win using half swording techniques. It is difficult to kill a man with plate, not impossible. Since when did spearmen did not have armor? O_o If he could have afforded it, he would definitely be decked, If he was a professional soldier he would definitely have a somewhat decent kit. Maille or munitions grade armor or whatever depending on the period. |
| The Art of Eight |
| i fount that video funny |
| dont ask questions, just do answers |
Lord_Joshua said: Wrong. A spear user can thrust anywhere quickly and efficiently. He can hit the toe, the hands, the head, anywhere. And it's far more easy to predict a sword swing because when you swing a sword you have toyou can parry a spear a trust you use your parry sword to ride aganst the spear so you can close the gap its also fairly predictable to know where the trust is going to be and how to dodge it and once the gap is closed the spear loses almost all of its power and the parry sword since its shorter than a normal sword gains a advantage in close range combat 1. Reverse your arms and shoulders. 2. Position arms, hands, and sword as to where to swing (WHICH IS DAMN EASY TO PREDICT) 3. Forward the motion of your shoulders and arms. Your hips too if you put lots of strength. Now you're left open and you either have to 1. Recover your stance or 2. Get fucked A spear requires 2 steps. 1. Ready stance, spear in position. 2. Thrust 3. Pull spear and ready again. you are also better useing some swings with a spear than just nothing but thrusts Swinging a spear is pointless against swords, it'll only make leave you majorly open since it requires a lot of strength to swing. So it'll take a longer time. And landing a hit with the tip of the sharpened spear is difficult and nearly impossible if the opponent steps in a different direction. Sticking to thrusts is the way to go. |
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Lord_Joshua said: the ranges in melee is baiscly dagger = you .kill anyone if you get close enough (the problem is getting close enough) axe/hammer/sword = not as close as a dagger but still close enough spear = has a decent range between you and works well in tightly packed fights lance= more range than a spear but less moability and less accuracy it requires you to be behind people Dagger=a tool as much as a weapon. Really only effective when grappling axe/hammer/sword= mid range stuff. spear= long range nelee weapon. Oldest weapon ever yet is still active thousands upon thousands of years after its creation lance= No, the lance is the weapon of the cavalryman used to deliver tremendous shock in the charge. It isnt used in infantry formations at all. :/ |
| The Art of Eight |
| Common sense would tell me a spear. :D |
| I had a feeling somebody would mention this whole steel vs wood thing - which is what might have happened if this had been a cartoon fight. Trust me spears aren't weak enough to be sliced through by a single swing of a 1 handed sword. |
| Unlike anime and videogames parrying/blocking a spear is nearly impossible in real life, without armour and/or a shield. |
| Depends on whos using it really. Historical accounts with the older weapons like these it all depends on who was using it. |
| Spear (duh). |
| Come visit my town // I apologize in advance for my second-rate English Join my fan club // Improve the transport network |
| Surely it would somewhat depend on both the spear and the swords used? It's not as if there's only one type of spear or one type of sword. |
RedArmyShogun said: Depends on whos using it really. Historical accounts with the older weapons like these it all depends on who was using it. We have to assume both are equally skilled in this hypothetical battle if we want to uncover which weapon has the advantage or else it will a more skilled fighter defeats a less skilled fighter kinda fight instead of a weapon comparison. InfiniteRufus said: Surely it would somewhat depend on both the spear and the swords used? It's not as if there's only one type of spear or one type of sword. That is actually a good point that we have ignored in favour of arguing. So OP, which weapons in particular do you mean and are they armored? PS Gotta love OPs that dont take part in their own threads. |
| The Art of Eight |
| Question; how long is the perfect length of a spear if you want to counter a sword? Too short and you lose the range advantage, too long and your thrusts will be slower and you'll be fucked if the opponent comes inside your range. |
InfiniteRufus said: Question; how long is the perfect length of a spear if you want to counter a sword? Too short and you lose the range advantage, too long and your thrusts will be slower and you'll be fucked if the opponent comes inside your range. In a mano a mano fight, around 9 feet is ideal according to a few 15th and 16th century martial artists. |
| The Art of Eight |
InfiniteRufus said: Surely it would somewhat depend on both the spear and the swords used? It's not as if there's only one type of spear or one type of sword. I mentioned this before. Even if we assume that 2 swords are not efficient in general when used in conventoinal way, one of those swords can easily be a machete, which makes a very capable throwing weapon. If the other sword is a real dueling weapon like some kind of curved sword + sheath (sheath can be used to deflect/block) or something, then the spear guy doesnt really have much of a chance. If anything, the sword can be thworn not for the actual kill, but just even to create an opening to get behind or on the side of the spearhead and go for the kill. |
dankickyou said: InfiniteRufus said: Question; how long is the perfect length of a spear if you want to counter a sword? Too short and you lose the range advantage, too long and your thrusts will be slower and you'll be fucked if the opponent comes inside your range. In a mano a mano fight, around 9 feet is ideal according to a few 15th and 16th century martial artists. i'd guess that the best spear techniques are the ones used in chinese martial arts |
RandomChampion said: dankickyou said: InfiniteRufus said: Question; how long is the perfect length of a spear if you want to counter a sword? Too short and you lose the range advantage, too long and your thrusts will be slower and you'll be fucked if the opponent comes inside your range. In a mano a mano fight, around 9 feet is ideal according to a few 15th and 16th century martial artists. i'd guess that the best spear techniques are the ones used in chinese martial arts No such thing as best techniques. They all evolved to optimally face their respective threats. :/ |
| The Art of Eight |
| It is not the weapon, but the one who wields it. |
| sexual incest in nisomonogatari - no one bats an eye romance incest in SAO - everyone loses their minds |
dankickyou said: RandomChampion said: dankickyou said: InfiniteRufus said: Question; how long is the perfect length of a spear if you want to counter a sword? Too short and you lose the range advantage, too long and your thrusts will be slower and you'll be fucked if the opponent comes inside your range. In a mano a mano fight, around 9 feet is ideal according to a few 15th and 16th century martial artists. i'd guess that the best spear techniques are the ones used in chinese martial arts No such thing as best techniques. They all evolved to optimally face their respective threats. :/ well, some martial arts are still more effective than others lol. tae kwon is pretty much eclipsed by wushu. but what i meant was that chinese use of the weapon are probably far more developed than the european spear dueling techniques (this is just a guess, again) |
RandomChampion said: dankickyou said: RandomChampion said: dankickyou said: InfiniteRufus said: Question; how long is the perfect length of a spear if you want to counter a sword? Too short and you lose the range advantage, too long and your thrusts will be slower and you'll be fucked if the opponent comes inside your range. In a mano a mano fight, around 9 feet is ideal according to a few 15th and 16th century martial artists. i'd guess that the best spear techniques are the ones used in chinese martial arts No such thing as best techniques. They all evolved to optimally face their respective threats. :/ well, some martial arts are still more effective than others lol. tae kwon is pretty much eclipsed by wushu. but what i meant was that chinese use of the weapon are probably far more developed than the european spear dueling techniques (this is just a guess, again) Not true. Europe like China had many advanced techniques, treatises, manuals on spear use and many different kinds of spears and has produced many different kinds of warriors that used the spear (or variation thereof) to great effect. There is no reason to believe that China's spear use is inherently superior compared to Europe, which happens to be one of the most war torn places in history. |
| The Art of Eight |
dankickyou said: RandomChampion said: dankickyou said: RandomChampion said: dankickyou said: InfiniteRufus said: Question; how long is the perfect length of a spear if you want to counter a sword? Too short and you lose the range advantage, too long and your thrusts will be slower and you'll be fucked if the opponent comes inside your range. In a mano a mano fight, around 9 feet is ideal according to a few 15th and 16th century martial artists. i'd guess that the best spear techniques are the ones used in chinese martial arts No such thing as best techniques. They all evolved to optimally face their respective threats. :/ well, some martial arts are still more effective than others lol. tae kwon is pretty much eclipsed by wushu. but what i meant was that chinese use of the weapon are probably far more developed than the european spear dueling techniques (this is just a guess, again) Not true. Europe like China had many advanced techniques, treatises, manuals on spear use and many different kinds of spears and has produced many different kinds of warriors that used the spear (or variation thereof) to great effect. There is no reason to believe that China's spear use is inherently superior compared to Europe, which happens to be one of the most war torn places in history. yea i'm sure there are various solid spear european spear techniques. however, like you mentioned - Europe was war-torn, indicating military ation. For 1 vs 1, i'd put my money on the spear user using a chinese technique. one of them should be superiour than the other for dueling, as it's highly unlikely that they are exactly equal. |
| Most likely the spear would win, because spears have longer reach. But if the swordsman can get close enough(it's pretty unlikely), then the spearman would be the one at a disadvantage. |
HigurashiJun 5, 2013 10:16 AM
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| Depends on distance and how talented the spear wielder is with his spear. I'm pretty good with my spear, if ya know what I mean. |
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dankickyou said: RedArmyShogun said: Depends on whos using it really. Historical accounts with the older weapons like these it all depends on who was using it. We have to assume both are equally skilled in this hypothetical battle if we want to uncover which weapon has the advantage or else it will a more skilled fighter defeats a less skilled fighter kinda fight instead of a weapon comparison. InfiniteRufus said: Surely it would somewhat depend on both the spear and the swords used? It's not as if there's only one type of spear or one type of sword. That is actually a good point that we have ignored in favour of arguing. So OP, which weapons in particular do you mean and are they armored? PS Gotta love OPs that dont take part in their own threads. Hmm in that case its not so clearcut. There are tactics for both weapons designed to counter both. I would say it depends on who moves first. As in they likely will lose. Or it turns into a drawn out affair where who screws up first goes down. The Spearman has the reach, but spears were orginally made to counter calvary than to fight infantry. Though it also depends on the weapons used. Technically pole blades fall under the term spear. And I would not want to use a galdius against someone armed with a Naginata. But I'll go with a literal meaning of the typical wood spear vs a typical broadsword. |
| Let's send this thread to Deadliest Warrior and see how they interpret it. |
| They'll screw it up like they did in the Napoleon versus Washington episode, I mean seriously how could Washington win against Napoleon in that episode? |
DatDanimexican said: Take Paris. France surrenders. Game over. (History Joke)They'll screw it up like they did in the Napoleon versus Washington episode, I mean seriously how could Washington win against Napoleon in that episode? |
|
| Just throwing this out there, dual wielding anything is stupid. A guy with one sword would be more effective in a duel than a guy with two swords. |
TonyTin said: DatDanimexican said: Take Paris. France surrenders. Game over. (History Joke)They'll screw it up like they did in the Napoleon versus Washington episode, I mean seriously how could Washington win against Napoleon in that episode? He he thankfully you are only joking. And in case someone doesn't know France has a pretty badass history. Here's a list of French military victories and defeats. http://www.militaryfactory.com/battles/french_military_victories.asp Solvite said: Just throwing this out there, dual wielding anything is stupid. A guy with one sword would be more effective in a duel than a guy with two swords. Exactly. |
| Disgaea logic. Swords. |
| Spears>swords Swords>axes Axes>spears |
| I'd go spear. I mean, dat range. And wouldn't dual-wielding swords be incredibly unwieldy? I think you may be slowed down by the swords, greatly affecting your chance of victory. But if you happened to get in close - you'd probably win. But the question is, how would manage to get close with the spear in your way? |
Danielcook said: Spears>swords Swords>axes Axes>spears No. Thats way too general and why does an axe have an advantage over spears? |
| The Art of Eight |
| only if u go kiritoapeshitkilla with 2 swords |
 |
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