| I'm going to translate the tittle: someone called generic my favorite show just because it's full of cliches and predictable turns of events, but they are wrong. Generic is reusing stuff made by someone else, call it plot, development or troupes. A show can use those things? YES. It needs to use it at every fking point of the show? NO. A show becomes generic when it has no personality nor uniqueness, using troupes doesn't mean it's a generic show, abusing of them is. So now, go and cry at the corner. |
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ktulu007 said: To continue with your example, I think that it's more important to flesh out the character so that the audience understands human reasons for why that character is a tsundere, and less important to just try to put some unique twist on the tsundere just to differentiate them from other tsunderes. The latter can still feel tropey as hell and relying on tropes as crutches for story novelty, whereas the former actually justifies the tropes. (I think some people might use the term "reconstruction", if it's done with particular focus and attention to detail?)Being generic isn't necessarily bad. The problem with following the generic tropes in their purest forms is that it makes a series very predictable and things that are heavily generic don't tend to have characters who are all that interesting. For example, if you see a straight up tsundere character, you know what they're going to do in any given situation. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
DaCraziGuy said: Frankly, I have yet to run into a show that -- after I actually give it a full watch -- actually feels like it has "no personality nor uniqueness". And I've seen a number of shows that other people have criticized as "generic".I'm going to translate the tittle: someone called generic my favorite show just because it's full of cliches and predictable turns of events, but they are wrong. Generic is reusing stuff made by someone else, call it plot, development or troupes. A show can use those things? YES. It needs to use it at every fking point of the show? NO. A show becomes generic when it has no personality nor uniqueness, using troupes doesn't mean it's a generic show, abusing of them is. So now, go and cry at the corner. Every show that I've watched has gone in its own distinct direction with things. Do some starts seem similar? Yes. But that mainly has to do with recognizing common story premise/setup tropes, and not the actual direction the story takes. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
alshu said: JFuji said: Using the term generic is just a lazy cop out to not explain or bring any evidence to support your claim most of the time. Yeah imagine every time explaining what are the most used formulas of certain genre. Typical tropes, cliches ect. Giving examples from other shows where those are done better and where those are done worst...to prove that certain aspect of certain show is generic. Not bad and in the same time not too good. Lets even put a slogan "Every post must be an essay!". Naaah. There nothing wrong about not liking certain genres and subgenres. Like in such case it's only natural that you wouldn't like the generic titles and will seek mainly for the exceptional ones. For example Kimetsu no Yaiba didn't impressed me that much. Not so different from other titles I dislike. Thus I dropped it. Why people that think it's exceptional are somehow offended by this? Also why they push it absolutely everyone? Why going against "generic" if it really is from certain perspective? If this word doesn't work for them then it's a buzzword... JFuji said: They will never provide answers to these when challenged. It's fine to criticize a show, but at least make a little sense when doing so by using terms that actually apply to the show. Yeah all those misguided fools who doesn't appreciate Kimetsu no Yaiba. They are the worst for not proving to you with >1000 word texts that they actually mean what they say. Who said anything about an essay, bud? It doesn't take a Pullman novel like post to say why a show is generic. Though surely if there are so many troupes to choose from a generic show then it shouldn't be difficult to provide a few examples. If someone is going to claim a show is generic, then provide evidence in a discussion. If that's too difficult then don't enter a discussion about a show. Pretty simple. I"m not going to call Ergo Proxy boring/pretentious and then when someone asks why I feel that, respond with huur duur "I'm not bout typing essays mang". Who is offended by someone disliking Demon Slayer? I don't give a shit if someone dislikes HxH, my favorite show. Let alone Demon Slayer, a show that isn't even in my top 20. This topic is about how "generic" is overused and often misused. Which I agree with since I've seen this multiple times now with a show that just released. |
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GlennMagusHarvey said: Well, I guess that even the lamest job has a bit of personality... but I found more than enough shows that have more than enough troupes for being called generic.DaCraziGuy said: Frankly, I have yet to run into a show that -- after I actually give it a full watch -- actually feels like it has "no personality nor uniqueness". And I've seen a number of shows that other people have criticized as "generic".I'm going to translate the tittle: someone called generic my favorite show just because it's full of cliches and predictable turns of events, but they are wrong. Generic is reusing stuff made by someone else, call it plot, development or troupes. A show can use those things? YES. It needs to use it at every fking point of the show? NO. A show becomes generic when it has no personality nor uniqueness, using troupes doesn't mean it's a generic show, abusing of them is. So now, go and cry at the corner. Every show that I've watched has gone in its own distinct direction with things. Do some starts seem similar? Yes. But that mainly has to do with recognizing common story premise/setup tropes, and not the actual direction the story takes. Generic = predictable and repetitive. |
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The volumes you are speaking about are essay worthy. Lets say for example that I think show X is kind of average but entertaining because certain of it's aspects are great, certain generic and a few really bad. By your logic of proving everything I should explain what I consider great, generic and bad, give examples from other shows, give examples from the show in question, make parallels ect ect. In other words I should explain my perception of japanese animation, my methods of comparing and judging it, only state my opinion afterwords. JFuji said: It doesn't take a Pullman novel like post to say why a show is generic. - His posts usually are a bit long. - I disagree with some of his points here. - He was talking in general not about certain titles...which would take him a bit more words. JFuji said: Though surely if there are so many troupes to choose from a generic show then it shouldn't be difficult to provide a few examples. Actually it's pretty easy but it's time consuming, a bit annoying after the third time...also pointless when you realise that your opponent doesn't listen/care for you arguments. JFuji said: If someone is going to claim a show is generic, then provide evidence in a discussion. It depends on the discussion. If it's only "state your opinion" there is no need. If it goes deeper on certain elements, yes, you should go in details. JFuji said: If that's too difficult then don't enter a discussion about a show. It's not difficult as mentioned above, just very often pointless. Also going asinine on the meaning of every word could be a strawman argument. If you want examples in certain cases just ask for them and not go prejudice "If you use this term without some examples in the first place than you are wrong!". JFuji said: Pretty simple. It never is. JFuji said: I"m not going to call Ergo Proxy boring/pretentious and then when someone asks why I feel that, respond with huur duur "I'm not bout typing essays mang". Probably not but what you do here is different. You are going on crusade against words like "pretentious". JFuji said: Who is offended by someone disliking Demon Slayer? It was only an example (used by you). I don't know your real opinion this show...just that you react to people disliking it a bit stronger...like you want them to prove to you that they really don't see it as something special. Overkill much? Why care? Even about show that you really like HxH? JFuji said: This topic is about how "generic" is overused and often misused. Which I agree with since I've seen this multiple times now with a show that just released. Actually you haven't prove any misuses here...which is fine by me but goes against your principle. |
alshuOct 5, 2019 4:14 PM
| Generic isn't necessarily bad, what's generally bad is the execution. |
 In most cases, the MAL Average Scores don't mean anything, here is a question: were the works made before 2000 all shit? Why are they so damn scarce in the Top 50? Think about how MAL is quite literally a filtered amount of the Anime fanbase. Here's a timeline of the Top 15 in which you can check that, almost always, the scores are affected by the freshness, popularity and other factors that have nothing to do with quality. |
| @Peaceful_critic I see a lot of people making the argument that execution matters more. However, I always thought of uniqueness contributing to it, as in part of the execution. I mean the ways something can be different is more than just concept. If this is the meaning of generic you are talking about, we can totally agree. is how their writing preferences and styles are used to show the character's personalities. For example, Yuri being more of the passive and academic one of the group appreciates writing that's more metaphorical and complex while Natsuki who is upfront and childish prefers simple and to the point writing. Well, that's the MINIMUM you could expect from a VN that has so many poems in it. I find this example pretty bad. @YossaRedMage That's exactly what I have on mind, there's no use to discussion "genericness" if it's going to be subjective. |
In most cases, the MAL Average Scores don't mean anything, here is a question: were the works made before 2000 all shit? Why are they so damn scarce in the Top 50? Think about how MAL is quite literally a filtered amount of the Anime fanbase. Here's a timeline of the Top 15 in which you can check that, almost always, the scores are affected by the freshness, popularity and other factors that have nothing to do with quality. |
Peaceful_Critic said: DooMWhite said: I'm not very experienced in poem based visual novels, I didn't know it was such a common trope. What other VNs use it?Well, that's the MINIMUM you could expect from a VN that has so many poems in it. I find this example pretty bad. I didn't say it was a common trope or generic, I said it was the minimum you could expect from a work that has so much of that stuff to not even bother to adapt to the personalities of the characters writing it. I guess it would be similar as when you receive a message from a character on a VN, it will, in most cases, have characteristics of the personality of the writer. |
In most cases, the MAL Average Scores don't mean anything, here is a question: were the works made before 2000 all shit? Why are they so damn scarce in the Top 50? Think about how MAL is quite literally a filtered amount of the Anime fanbase. Here's a timeline of the Top 15 in which you can check that, almost always, the scores are affected by the freshness, popularity and other factors that have nothing to do with quality. |
| Generic = Not Unique If we are talking about coventional definition of generic, KonoSuba would be a generic anime. But when talking about media, generic does not mean that. No, KonoSuba is a very unique anime. You can't say an anime is generic just because there are other anime that can be put in to same genre. Isekai is a genre. There are many Isekai animes, that does not mean all Isekai are generic. Same as Shounen. Kimetsu no Yaiba is a Shounen. Of course it has some cliches or tropes generic to the Shounen genre. But that does not make it generic. An anime is greater than the sum of its parts. |
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Peaceful_Critic said: DooMWhite said: Well, my original comment you replied to, wasn't really an arguement as to why DDLC is a good VN, so it's odd to me you replied saying it was a bad example without meaning it was generic. Since my only point was that it was a unique aspect of that game. I didn't say it was a common trope or generic, I said it was the minimum you could expect from a work that has so much of that stuff to not even bother to adapt to the personalities of the characters writing it. I guess it would be similar as when you receive a message from a character on a VN, it will, in most cases, have characteristics of the personality of the writer. DDLC doesn't really even have the character's diction reflect their personalities the majority of the time, and in my experience, the things that do this are rare to find. But wasn't your case that uniqueness is necessarily good? And I wouldn't call the poems thing something unique, just terribly specific, that's like saying something isn't generic, cuz it has a bird with a weird name. And this now makes me wonder even something else, you said "unique characteristic of that game", but in your "thesis" it makes it look like the work needs to unique or generic by absolute, cuz it's directly related to the execution, so, there are cases when that's not true? |
In most cases, the MAL Average Scores don't mean anything, here is a question: were the works made before 2000 all shit? Why are they so damn scarce in the Top 50? Think about how MAL is quite literally a filtered amount of the Anime fanbase. Here's a timeline of the Top 15 in which you can check that, almost always, the scores are affected by the freshness, popularity and other factors that have nothing to do with quality. |
Peaceful_Critic said: @DooMWhite No, things can mess up in unique ways. Experimentation can backfire. I do think to be generic is inherently bad though(not saying that shows have to be unique to be good, just that like rushed pacing, it ruins the experience). Also, DDLC is pretty generic in most of the 1st half. That 1 unique, well-thought-out aspect isn't going to save it nor make it unique overall. That being said, the addition of that element did improve them as characters a good bit. I mean unique is just something you've never seen done before or done rarely. The name of the bird would be unique, maybe not "something" as that depends on how many elements it has and where you would personally draw that line. "it look like the work needs to unique or generic by absolute, cuz it's directly related to the execution, so, there are cases when that's not true?" You lost me, what do you mean exactly? Well, on your post you said that what makes something generic isn't simply the concept of the show, but also the execution, wouldn't that be basically the entire show itself? |
In most cases, the MAL Average Scores don't mean anything, here is a question: were the works made before 2000 all shit? Why are they so damn scarce in the Top 50? Think about how MAL is quite literally a filtered amount of the Anime fanbase. Here's a timeline of the Top 15 in which you can check that, almost always, the scores are affected by the freshness, popularity and other factors that have nothing to do with quality. |
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