PentaFlare said: You're probably right which is why I am going to take a break.Jackrito said: You would expect more then 2 near WIFOM scum reads at this point though let's be honest here. Yeah. Qoco's reads are pretty weak. That said, I think @logic340 is being a little absurd right now with the aggression. This is not productive, it is confrontational. Good night all |
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PentaFlare said: Jackrito said: You would expect more then 2 near WIFOM scum reads at this point though let's be honest here. Yeah. Qoco's reads are pretty weak. That said, I think @logic340 is being a little absurd right now with the aggression. This is not productive, it is confrontational. Yeah I would agree with that. |
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| I can understand Qoco's scumread on logic. When you are on the other side of that tunnel it is impossible to feel like you aren't being grossly misrepresented and logic ends up looking really scummy. However, I would expect to see better developed reads on the rest of the players in the thread. Grape for example. It was a discussion topic for a while yesterday but I don't remember Qoco taking much of a stance (correct me if I'm wrong). The only other read Qoco has stuck to is Jack. |
Be like this seal. It is a happy seal. ~Review Guidelines~ | ~Recommendation Guidelines~ | ~Mafia Society~ |
Grapefruit21 said: I guess you missed the other post where I said outside of us if there is anyone else? Also asked him for town reads among other questions. I am not going to answer shit and see if I can get the type of reception he is getting because I am severely aggravated with this town right now. \\@logic340 Qoco clearly says they find you suspect. It's right there in the post you quoted. Calm down. Is it supported or compelling? No but they answered it. \ |
| Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
Grapefruit21 said: I guess you missed the other post where I said outside of us if there is anyone else? Also asked him for town reads among other questions. I am not going to answer shit and see if I can get the type of reception he is getting because I am severely aggravated with this town right now. \\@logic340 Qoco clearly says they find you suspect. It's right there in the post you quoted. Calm down. Is it supported or compelling? No but they answered it. \ |
| Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
logic340 said: PentaFlare said: You're probably right which is why I am going to take a break.Yeah. Qoco's reads are pretty weak. That said, I think @logic340 is being a little absurd right now with the aggression. This is not productive, it is confrontational. Good night all Man you know I have told you this before you have to not let this stuff get to you so much I get the frusation but it is too much.I like how decided you are as you know but not everyone is tge same. You will go insane at this rate. |
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| Good night for real I am closing the lap top can't even focus on reading previous day right now. |
| Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
PentaFlare said: I can understand Qoco's scumread on logic. When you are on the other side of that tunnel it is impossible to feel like you aren't being grossly misrepresented and logic ends up looking really scummy. However, I would expect to see better developed reads on the rest of the players in the thread. Grape for example. It was a discussion topic for a while yesterday but I don't remember Qoco taking much of a stance (correct me if I'm wrong). The only other read Qoco has stuck to is Jack. I would agree if Quco was not doing the same thing to me it comes off so hypocritical. |
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| I think I'm going to call it a night. For everyone who hasn't at some point weighed in on any of Qoco, Karote, or dono, it would be nice to here from you. If you have already, maybe just write out a summary of your thoughts for the sake of starting discussion. |
Be like this seal. It is a happy seal. ~Review Guidelines~ | ~Recommendation Guidelines~ | ~Mafia Society~ |
PentaFlare said: Jackrito said: You would expect more then 2 near WIFOM scum reads at this point though let's be honest here. Yeah. Qoco's reads are pretty weak. That said, I think @logic340 is being a little absurd right now with the aggression. This is not productive, it is confrontational. I agree with all of this and what I was trying to get across. Yes qoco is being cagey and not giving a ton of answers, but some. @Qoco a full reads list would be really helpful at this stage. |
| @logic340 I think you have some good points. And you are correct that Qoco is dodging some of your questions. I called you out on that post and not the others. I see your other questions and I didn't call them unfair or say Qoco answered them. I called out that one because A: You bolded, centered, and enlarged. B: Expletive filled. C: The one question actually answered. If you didn't think it was a good answer and wanted to pressure them fine. That's not what you did though. If you wanted an answer to other questions, fine. But again you didn't do that. Your accusations of Qoco look much worse when you ignore what's actually happening. Qoco is floating and is not contributing much, but your focus on a few points undermines you. And makes the game less pleasant. @Qoco I do find your lack of firm stances scummy. Give me something or get lynched. |
logic340 said: Shinichi-Kun said: I agree with you Jack can defend himself (if given the time) people voting him up on trump up suspcions for questions that had been repeatedly answered is scummy and I want to know why you are ignoring that shit.?like i said before jack can defend himself on his own. Also even if those 3 are wrong i see nothing weird about them using lies to get reads and emotion. People that break easily are scum normally lol I don't see the benefit of lying as it destroys trust once their depict. Qoco has lost all credibility lying D1 and if he isn't going to work on gaining it back he can face the gallows today. You should be more skeptical of Qoco considering you classed him as grrr 2.0 in our last game? Grrr does it all the time and honestly 50% of the time i know why he lies, it honestly depends on alot of factors. I still believe u and chione lost all credibiility after the day 1 lynch lol, but you are right i should be. Im not ignoring it at all, just because i dont reply to some stuff i have alot of thoughts about the game in ym head and about who i should trust. |
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logic340 said: Shinichi-Kun said: You sure because me being skeptical of claims is making me look anti-town to you? You seem to be contradicting yourself because it's ok for you to eat up a soft claim but it's wrong for me to be skeptical of a claim from a suspect? Like leave me alone for a little while and look for actual scum Chad. Nope depends on alot of stuff, the person, the environment, the emotion, the role being softed. Ur skeptical of every claim lately tho lol Also what do u mean by eat up a soft claim? |
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logic340 said: Shinichi-Kun said: Who said I didn't consider it? Behavior wise you should try to hold people to a bit of a standard obviously people are different and see things differently but giving Qoco and grrr passes all day while holding people like me jack and penta to a higher standard is damn near starting to feel like burden of prophecy. Thats the thing tho behavior wise you cant compare karote and grrr to someone like jack or penta. So just like everyone else claims need to be looked into. If there is no reason to consider claims when lynching someone then why do we even bother to ask a persoon to claim their role if ur not gonna let it effect your judgement. You don't expect much from Qoco, grrr, Karote so you focus on people you do expect things from. Stop that shit and pressure the real anti-town instead of making up reasons for me being anti-town. You know I fight off BS lynches and if you can't see tha's what the train on Jack amounts to you need to go reread the end of day. WTF aren't you voting again are we going to go through the whole day without out a vote? Even if it's on me put it out there it's your weapon isn't it? I town read grrr, never once said i town read qoco did i? Even if im holding some some scpeial standard for him. I was on the jack train myself ik it was off still waiting for his claim tho before anything else. Also still dont see the point to vote right now seeing as how we still have another 19 hours or so left im in no rush to place my vote. If i feel the need to place a vote down ill do it. |
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logic340 said: Shinichi-Kun said: So anyone who claims at the end of the phase will be spared? How is that supposed to help us? Like what you are saying makes little sense lets both step back for a minute. I need to reread D2. You aren't townfirmed so please show me something other than paranoia today. I hear u but its the end of the phase we can't just say ok Karote claimed, lets wait till the next day phase lol. Thats not what im saying at all if someone claimed miller at the end of a phase instead of thes tart i would lynch them with hesitation same goes for someone that claims vigilante since that coul be a sk or mafia goon. Karote im skeptical of tho cause idk how he confused hider and transporter, its funny cause if he had claimed TP first i would have switched my vote to him. |
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Jackrito said: Shinichi-Kun said: Cowardly how? People claimed and news targets needed to be presented. This is fustrating because u always get worked up when u get voted or are on the brink of being lynched. These kind of posts from you are actually starting to become scum tells because for one know one is perfect so sometimes one moment u will be a town read next minute ur being lynched. How do u think people feel when they get lynched on d1? They literally cant even defend themselves. Yeah new targets had to be presented how about one you had questioned oh wait you don't do that to anyone. It is cowardly because people had all day to question me so of course I will be mad if people do it for no reason. Also in what world is been mad about lynch a scum tell and if you think I am vote me. Also Lucian was pressured all day he had chances to defend themselfs so not the same. Yes but u voted him during the last 1 hour of the phase when im pretty sure he wasnt even on at that time lol. Also im pretty sure everyone that had a vote on you questioned you at one time even ive put my 2 cents in somewhere. |
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Jackrito said: Shinichi-Kun said: So then claim? Also this is unavoidble as people will claim so its unfair to just get mad at people that ended up choosing you over someone else for example like logic. Claim with a min left and then have a mass panic happen on some one else who would have less time no thanks. Playing pass the lynch like that will lead to a massclaim and give scum adv if smart. I was saying claim now lol, i dont like last minte claims as much as the next person thats why i claimed like an 30 mins before phase change i think. |
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PentaFlare said: I think I'm going to call it a night. For everyone who hasn't at some point weighed in on any of Qoco, Karote, or dono, it would be nice to here from you. If you have already, maybe just write out a summary of your thoughts for the sake of starting discussion. Karote is prob scum @karote i still dont get how u confused those 2 roles lol Qoco is prob scum or tpr Dono is either or tbh i can't seem to buckle down on exactly what she is this game, tho i learn more towards scum. |
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| Will reply to things within few hours. |
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| vote:abu idk where u are but for you to come back into mafia games and continue to do what ya did a few months ago is very frustrating. You replaced into a game you have a sense of obligation to join us yet where are you? |
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| I'd like stances on Abu from everyone at this stage. I won't waste everyone's time pushing nothing but that lynch all day, but I will push it EoD if a more compelling alternative does not emerge. @ All are you willing to lynch Abu? |
| As for stances on aa-dono, Qoco, and Karote willing to lynch any of them today. I'd like to hear more from them before I make any final decisions though. |
Grapefruit21 said: If he doesn't contribute this phase, he's gonna get modkill/replaced. My stance depends on what he does next.I'd like stances on Abu from everyone at this stage. I won't waste everyone's time pushing nothing but that lynch all day, but I will push it EoD if a more compelling alternative does not emerge. @ All are you willing to lynch Abu? Though from energy/psych view, I don't see why mafia would feel overwhelmed by the number of post. They could just skim it and ask their buddies for update. |
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aa-dono said: Grapefruit21 said: If he doesn't contribute this phase, he's gonna get modkill/replaced. My stance depends on what he does next.I'd like stances on Abu from everyone at this stage. I won't waste everyone's time pushing nothing but that lynch all day, but I will push it EoD if a more compelling alternative does not emerge. @ All are you willing to lynch Abu? Though from energy/psych view, I don't see why mafia would feel overwhelmed by the number of post. They could just skim it and ask their buddies for update. In the bolded one of those is a satisfactory result the other leaves the same huge question mark hanging over the game. As for your other part it makes sense but I haven't found it true in practice. Been in multiple games (including one where I was the second replacement) where scum slots double replaced. |
Coelestin said: I have to decline this for now.@aa-dono I have one request for you. I'd like you to ISO Jack and see if it aligns with your gut read yesterday. I'd like to see if I can follow your train of thoughts this time. |
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Coelestin said: Long story short. I couldn't trust Jack even with some townie points he gave out. As I explained to logic, what he sees as town motivation, I see as posts that Jack could make with scum motivation.PentaFlare said: Okay, I can understand that read although it isn't something I can agree with without being you. I've also had many moments where I've agreed with what Jack was saying but it was mostly about how to handle specific scenarios which is more objective an less alignment-indicative. Jack's play is so consistent, which makes his scum play really good, but makes him hard to give a townread to. What do you make of aa-dono's vote? Alright, thoughts about her vote specifically: So, I checked up with what she said earlier on D2. There wasn't an explicit read on Jack but she said here that the people most likely to be scum on the train is logic and Jack and here that she found the Jack unvote Luce thing suspicious and some other stuff here, plus she said that the read on Jack is here is guts. Here she brings up Jack might be town and here she says he is neutral. It was like. Sure. Ok. In the mean time I believe there was no post of aa-dono on Jack so it's unsure what she might have thought here. If I missed it though then @aa-dono please tell me! Here she expresses the thought of lynching Jack but with no reasoning so unsure what she might have thought here, if it's based on what she said at the beginning on D2 or not. Here she actually votes for him last minute. So far, ok. Her vote could make sense, like she might have gotten convinced by Qoco as well. And then there's this aa-dono said: I followed my guts. This is very hard to judge as well. Everything around what she's done is just... blurry. She hasn't given actual reason than "gut" to suspect Jack. It kind of looks like almost the same pattern like on D1 with Lucian with going back and forth here, which isn't necessarily scummy but more really confusing. This is why I want to make her clear what she thinks about him by doing an ISO and see if we can follow her thoughts or not, and that she may eventually clear up what she was doing there on D2 with her thoughts on Jack going back and forth without explanation. I guess the paranoia makes it unfair to Jack, but EoD yesterday, Shinichi's claim is most likely town and between unknown claim (I don't have the same sight as Penta as to why Hider was town) from Karote that I haven't sort of town or scum, and Jack that I kept going back to as scum, I voted Jack. I had a gut read on him last game he was scum but I didn't pursue it because I thought it was unfair and I had nothing on him, but well he turned out scum. So ~ I went with my gut. |
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PentaFlare said: +1I wouldn't be too paranoid about people have strong townreads on you. I think most players townread you because your approach to the game is very positive. The players who are more cynical are the ones who have seen one of your scum games because we know it looks exactly the same. >.< |
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Jackrito said: Could you elaborate why this is?If we have 2 potential cops and 2 potential doctors a transporter if real would cause more harm then good add that with lambs role and Lucian role. They is no way in mind that both Karote and Lambs roles are true. Since it would cause too much confusion if all town |
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Grapefruit21 said: Sadly.As for your other part it makes sense but I haven't found it true in practice. Been in multiple games (including one where I was the second replacement) where scum slots double replaced. But yeah, idk see the worth in sorting out an inactive slot, especially one that might be headed towards a modkill. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Jackrito said: Yeah new targets had to be presented how about one you had questioned oh wait you don't do that to anyone. It is cowardly because people had all day to question me so of course I will be mad if people do it for no reason. Also in what world is been mad about lynch a scum tell and if you think I am vote me. Also Lucian was pressured all day he had chances to defend themselfs so not the same. Yes but u voted him during the last 1 hour of the phase when im pretty sure he wasnt even on at that time lol. Also im pretty sure everyone that had a vote on you questioned you at one time even ive put my 2 cents in somewhere. Did they all really though the only thing no saw was about my lack of vote which I answered at the time but got ignored. On Day one yes he was on and he knew he was a potential lynch all day.. |
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Coelestin said: Where did this confidence come from?Don't vote Jack! Vote: Coelestin |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Jackrito said: Claim with a min left and then have a mass panic happen on some one else who would have less time no thanks. Playing pass the lynch like that will lead to a massclaim and give scum adv if smart. I was saying claim now lol, i dont like last minte claims as much as the next person thats why i claimed like an 30 mins before phase change i think. I feel no need to claim my role to prove myself to anyone at this point. |
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Grapefruit21 said: I'd like stances on Abu from everyone at this stage. I won't waste everyone's time pushing nothing but that lynch all day, but I will push it EoD if a more compelling alternative does not emerge. @ All are you willing to lynch Abu? It is a issue that needs to be dealt with at some point so yes. |
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aa-dono said: Jackrito said: Could you elaborate why this is?If we have 2 potential cops and 2 potential doctors a transporter if real would cause more harm then good add that with lambs role and Lucian role. They is no way in mind that both Karote and Lambs roles are true. Since it would cause too much confusion if all town perdilon This assumption was based off me getting lambs mod wrong, do not as valid. Put simply with that much town power based on using the skill on right person a transporter wii hurt town more so more likely scum in my view at least. For example a cop will check the wrong person and a doc will save wrong person |
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| Since he lied/mistake his role PM, I'm not really sure where to place him, but I don't think the votes on Jack is suspicious. Qoco had been showing his disagreement with Jack since few hours before phase change if I recall it right. I think Shinichi's vote is justified. Well, I don't expect people to believe my vote, but I think it's justified. And Carrot wants to save himself. This however: Karote: Coelestin, Grapefruit21, logic340, Jackrito stayed even after Carrot's claim. Grape wasn't around so that's ok, maybe. Jack, similar to Carrot, it wasn't wise of him to remove his vote. logic seems biasedly townreading Jack and protective of him regardless. Plus, he didn't believe the claim. So Coel's vote is a lot more suspicious imo. Do you townread Jack that much to protect him? Or scumread Karote a lot? |
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Jackrito said: perdilon?aa-dono said: Could you elaborate why this is? perdilon This assumption was based off me getting lambs mod wrong, do not as valid. Put simply with that much town power based on using the skill on right person a transporter wii hurt town more so more likely scum in my view at least. For example a cop will check the wrong person and a doc will save wrong person But wouldn't harmful town roles fit when there's a lot of backups? Plus, judging from CP's flip, the game might have a lot of triggers. |
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aa-dono said: Him refers to Karote. And then my mind jumps to Jack's train.Since he lied/mistake his role PM, I'm not really sure where to place him, but I don't think the votes on Jack is suspicious. Apologies for not being organized. |
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grrr said: +1PentaFlare said: If you believe that lynching to send a message is the right play, then I can't change your mind. It isn't, but this wouldn't be the first thing we disagreed on and I don't believe that it is indicative of your alignment. If we all were thinking the same, mafia wouldnt be so fun. Shinichi-Kun said: My Shishou is still best confucius @DenjaX <3grrr is the new confucious |
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logic340 said: Not necessarily true. Penta lies even as town.I don't see the benefit of lying as it destroys trust once their depict. Qoco has lost all credibility lying D1 and if he isn't going to work on gaining it back he can face the gallows today. You should be more skeptical of Qoco considering you classed him as grrr 2.0 in our last game? logic340 said: And?Time to back out the tunnel going to look over dono for a while. |
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aa-dono said: Since he lied/mistake his role PM, I'm not really sure where to place him, but I don't think the votes on Jack is suspicious. Qoco had been showing his disagreement with Jack since few hours before phase change if I recall it right. I think Shinichi's vote is justified. Well, I don't expect people to believe my vote, but I think it's justified. And Carrot wants to save himself. This however: Karote: Coelestin, Grapefruit21, logic340, Jackrito stayed even after Carrot's claim. Grape wasn't around so that's ok, maybe. Jack, similar to Carrot, it wasn't wise of him to remove his vote. logic seems biasedly townreading Jack and protective of him regardless. Plus, he didn't believe the claim. So Coel's vote is a lot more suspicious imo. Do you townread Jack that much to protect him? Or scumread Karote a lot? I'm having a really hard time following the internal logic of this post. You find all of the stated reasons for voting Jack reasonable. But you find people not moving off suspect? Why would the (at the time) Hider claim be so town that you'd expect the wagon to completely dissipate given that claim and it's timing despite his behaviour? On pushing Karote today: His behaviour isn't town, he claimed a provable role but hasn't even claimed his targets for the day to try and help us sort out if his behaviour there is town+ or not. Plus the whole changing his claim snafu doesn't look good. Sidebar: I saw someone say he should hide that information, given that he's outed his role I see no advantage to not claiming targets from the previous night. If someone can explain one to me I'll retract my request. Anyway back to Dono's post I guess I'm just having trouble seeing why you find the votes on Karote suspicious in light of his claim given the circumstances. |
aa-dono said: Jackrito said: perdilon?perdilon This assumption was based off me getting lambs mod wrong, do not as valid. Put simply with that much town power based on using the skill on right person a transporter wii hurt town more so more likely scum in my view at least. For example a cop will check the wrong person and a doc will save wrong person But wouldn't harmful town roles fit when there's a lot of backups? Plus, judging from CP's flip, the game might have a lot of triggers. No idea what that was meant to be lol. Hard to say it is a push true but added with Karote play it is more likely scum imo |
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Grapefruit21 said: At the time, he claimed a town role. Behaviour is a tell, but some people just exudes those scum traits because they're either not analytical enough, or not posting the way pro-town is expected.aa-dono said: Since he lied/mistake his role PM, I'm not really sure where to place him, but I don't think the votes on Jack is suspicious. Qoco had been showing his disagreement with Jack since few hours before phase change if I recall it right. I think Shinichi's vote is justified. Well, I don't expect people to believe my vote, but I think it's justified. And Carrot wants to save himself. This however: Karote: Coelestin, Grapefruit21, logic340, Jackrito stayed even after Carrot's claim. Grape wasn't around so that's ok, maybe. Jack, similar to Carrot, it wasn't wise of him to remove his vote. logic seems biasedly townreading Jack and protective of him regardless. Plus, he didn't believe the claim. So Coel's vote is a lot more suspicious imo. Do you townread Jack that much to protect him? Or scumread Karote a lot? I'm having a really hard time following the internal logic of this post. You find all of the stated reasons for voting Jack reasonable. But you find people not moving off suspect? Why would the (at the time) Hider claim be so town that you'd expect the wagon to completely dissipate given that claim and it's timing despite his behaviour? On pushing Karote today: His behaviour isn't town, he claimed a provable role but hasn't even claimed his targets for the day to try and help us sort out if his behaviour there is town+ or not. Plus the whole changing his claim snafu doesn't look good. Sidebar: I saw someone say he should hide that information, given that he's outed his role I see no advantage to not claiming targets from the previous night. If someone can explain one to me I'll retract my request. Anyway back to Dono's post I guess I'm just having trouble seeing why you find the votes on Karote suspicious in light of his claim given the circumstances. Karote's activity has been judged in previous games I played with too. One, like he said, he's not really a Day 1 participant. Two, I am more sceptical of a pro-town Karote than not. I wouldn't put this on logic since he played with awesome active players in the club when he started out. But older ones like Coel & Jack would have known Carrot's behaviour. Though I tried to ignore those meta and goes for at the time scenario. When someone claimed a town role, wouldn't you back off? Jack had no reason to since it was his train that people jumped to. logic doesn't know what a hider is. And the one left is Coelestin. Which is what I'm trying to find out. Not really against lynching Karote today. Hider and Transported doesn't even rhyme. :/ Doesn't feel like a believable mistake. As for your sidebar, I have no clue. |
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| @aa-dono okay, I can follow all of that. I suppose at this point I should really go back and see if Coelestin was posting between Karote's claim and the end of the phase. Either way I think I still just find him more suspect than anyone on his wagon, but I'm not familiar with Karote and his meta. |
| Okay Coelestin did post between Karote's claim and EoD. It was in defense of Jack which seems reasonable to me. That vote seems at least as justified as logic's @aa-dono. Do you have more backing your Coelestin vote? Follow up I have played with Karote before now that I think about it. Twice I think... |
| @aa-dono I had less than a minute left when I saw his claim and that a train on Jack formed. I didn't have time to think much. I panicked, I only knew that hider wasn't an exactly powerful role and didn't think about it being provable or not. What I knew however, is that I have a strong town read on Jack (I told Penta as to why is that in the night phase if you want to read back) and that he was in my town block which I absolutely didn't want to lynch, so my natural instinct was to try to save Jack instead of thinking of the consequences. Now I have a question for you: I don't know if you've already answered this but it's probably quicker if I ask you directly instead of trying to search for it. Why did you only vote for him until last minute? |
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Grapefruit21 said: Nope.Okay Coelestin did post between Karote's claim and EoD. It was in defense of Jack which seems reasonable to me. That vote seems at least as justified as logic's @aa-dono. Do you have more backing your Coelestin vote? Why do you see the defense reasonable? |
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Coelestin said: I couldn't decide who to vote after I unvote Shinichi. I wasn't particularly scumreading anyone else. My day phase reads jumps between logic and Jack.@aa-dono I had less than a minute left when I saw his claim and that a train on Jack formed. I didn't have time to think much. I panicked, I only knew that hider wasn't an exactly powerful role and didn't think about it being provable or not. What I knew however, is that I have a strong town read on Jack (I told Penta as to why is that in the night phase if you want to read back) and that he was in my town block which I absolutely didn't want to lynch, so my natural instinct was to try to save Jack instead of thinking of the consequences. Now I have a question for you: I don't know if you've already answered this but it's probably quicker if I ask you directly instead of trying to search for it. Why did you only vote for him until last minute? I don't see the need to add votes to Carrot when he was leading, but when he claimed, I thought it was worth a save. I joined an agreeable train then, which was Jack. |
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aa-dono said: Grapefruit21 said: Nope.Okay Coelestin did post between Karote's claim and EoD. It was in defense of Jack which seems reasonable to me. That vote seems at least as justified as logic's @aa-dono. Do you have more backing your Coelestin vote? Why do you see the defense reasonable? Because I've had a biased town read on Coel for a while now that I need to reevalutate. Why do you find logic's reasonable? |
More like Confusious. |
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