Basic Mafia v4: Haruhi Suzumiya Mafia | Game Over - Mafia and Third Party Win

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Oct 2014

989

Phraze said:
@logic340

Do you think that Sonata is either overzealous town or sacrificial scum?

or scum purposely looking scummy to go off the hook.

What even is this. It makes no sense that I would do that, I'm not even doing that, I don't think I look scummy, I just look stupid.

logic340 said:
Kit, LucianRoy, Sonata, PentaFlare scum team?

You think?

Vote: Pentaflare

Jan 4, 2017 12:00 PM

#1302

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Jan 2010

15122

Sonata said:

Phraze said:
@logic340

or scum purposely looking scummy to go off the hook.

What even is this. It makes no sense that I would do that, I'm not even doing that, I don't think I look scummy, I just look stupid.

logic340 said:
Kit, LucianRoy, Sonata, PentaFlare scum team?

You think?

Vote: Pentaflare

Nah not really just a question.

Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC

Jan 4, 2017 12:01 PM

#1303

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Jan 2010

15122

Sonata said:

logic340 said:
Kit, LucianRoy, Sonata, PentaFlare scum team?

You think?

Vote: Pentaflare

Got a reason or some support for you vote there?

Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC

Jan 4, 2017 12:02 PM

#1304

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May 2012

2859

Sonata said:
You think?

Vote: Pentaflare

Is this a vote to prove you are not a team or because you suspect/want to pressure Penta?

Jan 4, 2017 12:04 PM

#1305

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Jan 2010

15122

Kit said:
I honestly don't remember you saying we should look at Bursama, but I was already suspicious of him from his first post anyway, and moreso after 40 flipped town. I didn't want to say it in case it was right and I would get night killed. Last game I was killed for simply suggesting Togs MIGHT be scum.. o_o I'm trying new approaches every game, so I apologize for tunneling on 40 and not discussing other options with you (though I also didn't really want a last minute panic switch to a different person, because that makes analysis confusing)

You say you were suspicious of Bursama but you didn't find it weird that he was on the 40 train with you?

Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC

Jan 4, 2017 12:08 PM

#1306

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Jan 2010

15122

Unvote Lets see where this leads us....not sure I am cool with that train anymore.

Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC

Jan 4, 2017 12:09 PM

#1307

Togs

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Nov 2015

4744

🌟 Vote Count 3.6 🌟

PentaFlare (2): DenjaX, Sonata
Gruffin (2): Oyasumi_Rosie, Phraze
Phraze (1): Lord_Sithis
logic340 (1): Grapefruit21
Lord_Sithis (1): Gruffin

Not Voting (4): Kit, LucianRoy, PentaFlare, logic340

With 11 alive, it’s 6 players to majority lynch.
If a majority lynch is not achieved by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched instead.

>>Day 3 Timer<<

Jan 4, 2017 12:20 PM

#1308

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Oct 2014

989

@logic340 @Gruffin yes, I'm leaning towards Penta being scum, I was just voting to add up pressure to the vote, I'm preparing a case on Kit this day phase.

Jan 4, 2017 12:23 PM

#1309

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15122

Sonata said:
@logic340 @Gruffin yes, I'm leaning towards Penta being scum, I was just voting to add up pressure to the vote, I'm preparing a case on Kit this day phase.

What do you find scummy about Penta?

Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC

Jan 4, 2017 12:24 PM

#1310

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2859

Hey, I've got an idea. There's something I've heard of called "Finger of Supicion" (FoS) that people use as an unofficial vote to say who they would be voting if not for certain situations. Think we could use that here to prevent any more unnecessary hammering but still keep up the pressure?

Jan 4, 2017 12:49 PM

#1311

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Oct 2014

989

logic340 said:

Sonata said:
@logic340 @Gruffin yes, I'm leaning towards Penta being scum, I was just voting to add up pressure to the vote, I'm preparing a case on Kit this day phase.

What do you find scummy about Penta?

I feel sorry for saying this since I tricked him but here I go.

First, that he voted up confirmed town 2 out of 2 times. Though I hammered Bursama's vote, I was trying to find out with it aswell if Penta was actually town or not (since he gave up being the one with the power to hammer it quite easily, I thought that he was town for sure if he really didn't wanna have that in the case Bursama was mafia). Since the opposite happens though, his move was scummier than usual instead of townier than usual (which would have been the case if Bursama flipped scum).

It's a long thing, but I don't want to stir up mud against him since he's not really gonna be online during this phase and I wasn't the one who started the train anyway.

Jan 4, 2017 12:51 PM

#1312

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Oct 2014

989

Gruffin said:
Hey, I've got an idea. There's something I've heard of called "Finger of Supicion" (FoS) that people use as an unofficial vote to say who they would be voting if not for certain situations. Think we could use that here to prevent any more unnecessary hammering but still keep up the pressure?

I'm cool w/ that. I would be voting up Penta but he's not here, so unvote and Vote: Kit, who can actually feel the pressure. I encourage you guys to do the same if you scumread Kit.

Jan 4, 2017 1:19 PM

#1313

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Jul 2018

564491

I'm here! Catching up!

Jan 4, 2017 1:31 PM

#1314

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Jan 2010

15122

Lord_Sithis said:
I'm here! Catching up!

talk with you soon.

Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC

Jan 4, 2017 1:47 PM

#1315

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15122

@DenjaX I know you're not the best with reads but is there something you see that some of us maybe missing?

Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC

Jan 4, 2017 1:53 PM

#1316

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May 2012

2859

Are we the only three online again? lol.

Jan 4, 2017 1:55 PM

#1317

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Nov 2008

8506

logic340 said:
DenjaX I know you're not the best with reads but is there something you see that some of us maybe missing?

I am still at page 21 and I find this post interesting:

Sonata said:
Second, I'm not asking to be pardoned, in fact what I meant by "taking responsibility" was offering myself up for a lynch in case there were no clues to follow and to give you security of my alignment if anything, I was just that sure that he'd flip scum (almost as sure as I am or was that Soren is scum aswell), but alas, I failed at being a good town, so I might aswell be lynched if that will bring tranquilty to the masses. Something I will say though, is that I am not (in the game context) scum, although my move and my person might as well be so.

So yeah, do as you please, I will just follow your guys' lead and point out whatever ideas I have but not make any decisive moves myself, since it hasn't worked for me lately which is kinda sad.

That's it. Pentaflare I hope you'll forgive me, personally.

The one that I bolded. See how Sonata knew that Soren is town even though it is still the Night Phase before Soren got killed. After the mislynch of Bursama, Sonata becomes too apologetic that he was "wrong" about his convictions and also included his conviction against Soren as well. To me, his act is mixed with crocodile tears to the point that he may have actually slipped in the process. xDD I mean, how could Sonata knew Soren is town?

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Jan 4, 2017 1:59 PM

#1318

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May 2012

2859

DenjaX said:
The one that I bolded. See how Sonata knew that Soren is town even though it is still the Night Phase before Soren got killed. After the mislynch of Bursama, Sonata becomes too apologetic that he was "wrong" about his convictions and also included his conviction against Soren as well. To me, his act is mixed with crocodile tears to the point that he may have actually slipped in the process. xDD I mean, how could Sonata knew Soren is town?

But Sonata said that they thought Soren was scum, not town.

Edit: Or is it based on the "am or was" line?

Jan 4, 2017 2:02 PM

#1319

Kit

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Jan 2008

6269

Gruffin said:

Kit said:
1. Like I said, benefit of the doubt, he, as town, didn't have a good read on him and thats why his behavior was like that.

2. Don't worry, my reads on you two don't depend on each other, but thanks for the concern. There's no reason for my read on Lucian to be invalid if you are town. And if Lucian is town, you could be defending him because you are scum and know he was town. How about that? *finger guns*
Anyway I'm only suspecting you for your reactions to me in this very argument, not because of the weak association I posted earlier.

3. Oh, don't mind that, I just meant to say you were beating around that bush instead of providing me facts. No need to be sorry.

4. If you are town it will show even if you make mistakes like that, so no worries ^^ I'm the only one pushing that particular issue. And it's more that you aren't keeping your story straight, and nothing to really do with the comment itself.. But perhaps I am taking it too seriously? Dunno what the others think about it.

5. I said "practically confirmed" as in a town read that is so strong that you have zero doubts.
So can you explain to me what is screaming "Lucian is Town" or is it just that post you provided earlier that I pinged Logic to?

6. This is mafia, I'm never confident in my reads beyond all doubt XD

Ah, alright then.

5. Welllll yeah. If Lucian's actually scum I'm going to feel like a fool, lol. If he ends up doing something scummy, I'd reconsider my read then but up until this point I'm seeing town.

Here's a list of the posts I'm talking about:

These two reveal what his motivation behind previously questionable actions (And I believe them):
640, 616
And these are all gamesolving questions:
125, 207, 213, 283 (at the bottom), 288, 336, 344, 345, 346, 350, ....The list goes on.
Trying to work out others' alignment:
236, 239, 340

And I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to force you to townread/be biased for him. I guess I just got carried away with defending my stance. It's pretty late here, so I'll reconsider your posts against him in the morning to figure out how you came to your conclusions and we can hopefully work this out.

6. Truth. :') I remember in NnT Dead Club I was townreading Logic similar to the way I'm townreading Lucian here, but I was still super paranoid that he was a scum genius that tricked me. deadscum!Denja messing with me didn't help. ;-;

Thanks for answering here, I think I can understand where you're coming from.

LucianRoy said:

Kit said:

I'm only going off memory right now. The progression of his read on 40 seemed unnatural- feels 40 is town from his early posts, likes my vote on 40 says im doing good work, feels less town on 40 when i asked him about it, then at the end of the day thinks 40 is town for a completely new, random/out of game reason in an attempt to save 40. Lucian's defense for 40 really tipped me off because while you/logic gave some well thought out reasons why 40 could be town, Lucian seemed to pull a reason out of his ass like he knew 40 would flip town and wanted to look good for defending him. Like, if 40 was used to 2-week phases, that would still apply if he was scum.

I like, barely defended 40. Saying it's possible a person who was practically inactive is getting Ml isn't an easy thing to do, but I did it, not because I had much to gain, but because I just like being lucky. And btw, if I had a solid tr on him at the time, you'd know.
Me gloating after he flipped town was probably ego honestly. If you think I'm scum trying to gain influence of something like that and prop myself up by distancing then I think you're about 90 or so feet off the bulls-eye.

Happened again with the Bursama vote, sort of. He shows his intention to vote Bursama then immediately unvotes because it's L-1. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember him having a case on Bursama, just not liking some of his recent posts.

I don't need a case to vote someone. My reason was good. Please don't downplay it fam.

In the end it didn't seem like Lucian cared about if he got lynched, just that Lucian didn't want to contribute to getting Bursama hammered.

If this is in any reference to me not speaking up about someone unvoting him for him to stay off L-1, then lemme explain. I assumed people would know how to handle a lynch target who put himself at L-1, "oh hey, well, it's not my job to tell people to unvote the person they're voting when he's at L-1 with 20 hours left in the day, I'm not the town's nanny," and then no one un-voted, and I entered the thread just as he got hammered. And not in the fun way.

If this didn't have to do with that, then I did care, just... not that much honestly. I'm not going to reason with someone who puts themselves at L-1. It's a waste of time.

I guess I didn't think about it causally enough like Soren did, dunno.

ok, fair

LucianRoy said:

Kit said:

I really don't think that post you linked is that illuminating into Lucian's thought process or why 40 should have been saved. Lucian even admitted that he "guessed right" and it was "dumb luck" so he really did not have a town read on 40. Scum don't need real reasons to town read because they know who is town. And I have no idea where he pulled the 2-week-meta out from. here is where he first brings it up but the post he quoted doesn't really hint that 40 is from a 2-week meta, unless Lucian personally knows 40 better than the rest of us.

He also doesn't explain why "The reasons people were pushing him looked less and less shiny when put in ... the perspective of somebody experienced with the entire 2-week phases meta"
And he doesn't explain why that made 40 town.

He dismisses his own protection of 40 like it wasn't that important so people don't look at it too closely. He never explains why he thought 40 was town (while Logic did a great job explaining). He even showed suspicion of 40 throughout the day.

Also I still don't understand why 40's responses to me were "clinical" when they sounded fueled with emotion to me. 40 sounded incredulous that I would accuse him of being mafia, which in hindsight actually seems a bit more townie than being "clinical"

This has no mention of town reading. Like I said, even as scum he could be unused to the short days so it's not a free pass.

and then he posts this just to push the fact that he "knew" 40 would flip town.

I'd say your little exercise has made me feel even worse about Lucian, honestly :/

At the time, I liked where he was going with Sithis, but now I'm not so sure, because I'm starting to feel more town from Sithis.

Should I be defending myself from something here?
@kit

Only if you feel like there's something to defend

I said it's understandable so I'm not sure how that was supposed to make anyone guilty. I was answering Logic because he asked

agree. I was looking at lucian not cause i had a strong scum read but because i am running out of people that are overtly scummy (and lynching overtly scummy people isn't working)

Avoiding lynch lock for times when I'll be away from the game for like 12 hours. But maybe i'll vote tonight after I catch up on everything, idk

1. Phraze for behaving unusually/being a bit more inactive than usual, Sithis bc they just seemed sketchy i guess.
2. Leaning town
3. I guess I was reaching, but I was frustrated that we could claim but apparently not allowed to analyze the flavor of the claim like i've done in previous games. it's misleading because a claim is supposed to somehow reassure us that the person is town but we can't analyze it.
3.5 I don't keep goals in mind. My goals for every game in general are to stay up to date with the posts in the thread and try to respond to all or most of my pings. If there is something that bothers me I point it out or ask questions. And sometimes I re-read or do ISO's if I have the motivation.
4. I still didn't ISO sithis and I'm not caught up so, sorry can't update you on that now.

I didn't like that I ended up agreeing with him, but I decided to trust him for that day.

/pings

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Jan 4, 2017 2:02 PM

#1320

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Nov 2008

8506

Gruffin said:
But Sonata said that they thought Soren was scum, not town.

Yeah but if Sonata thought that Soren was scum and admit that he was wrong before the flip, then Sonata considered Soren town. But how is that possible?

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Jan 4, 2017 2:05 PM

#1321

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Jul 2018

564491

Phraze said:
@Lord_Sithis

No. When you mentioned me and another player (can't recall now) as scum, they asked you, and you replied with a completely different thing. Do some re-reading.

not interested. backreading to dig out my old reads was a pain alrdy. hmm wait, u meant with Grapefruit? I alrdy clarified that I mixed up his and Gruffin's names.

Like this:

Phraze said:

So you find Sithis mixing in negatives in his posts as a scumread? I...don't think that in particular was alignment indicative. Going to need better reasoning than this because this looks like you are making assumptions about Sithis' motives.

I'm sure someone said it before some other game.. scum like to put shade at the end of a useful post. the more assorted they are in an entire post, the more they're trying to neutralize it.

Mudflinging eh? Phraze voted for me on Day 1, and now he says I'm mudflinging. She has not explained this, when Gruffin asked her she never explained it.

I did. I said ur posts had negative in there, as Lucian pointed out. love the colorcoding method.

The reason for suspecting me makes no sense. "Scum like to put shade at the end of a useful post". No, I wrote my reads in the order "Town -> Neutral -> Scum", nothing special about that. And "ur posts had negative in there", what does that mean? You've been voting me and suspecting me for no reason since day 1. Same with other people, they have asked you questions that you dodge or never answer, and they have pointed this out to you.

Jan 4, 2017 2:11 PM

#1322

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May 2012

2859

DenjaX said:

Gruffin said:
But Sonata said that they thought Soren was scum, not town.

Yeah but if Sonata thought that Soren was scum and admit that he was wrong before the flip, then Sonata considered Soren town. But how is that possible?

I think she was talking about being wrong about Bursama, not Soren.

Jan 4, 2017 2:12 PM

#1323

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Nov 2008

8506

Gruffin said:
I think she was talking about being wrong about Bursama, not Soren.

I guess Bursama's name is now Soren, eh? xDD I respect that.

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Jan 4, 2017 2:15 PM

#1324

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May 2012

2859

Or like, the Bursama flip shook their confidence in their read on Soren?

Jan 4, 2017 2:19 PM

#1325

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Jul 2018

564491

@DenjaX Welcome :D

Jan 4, 2017 2:20 PM

#1326

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Jul 2018

564491

Finished reading!

Jan 4, 2017 2:22 PM

#1327

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Jan 2010

15122

@Lord_Sithis where do you stand on Sonata, Gruffin, and Kit?

Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC

Jan 4, 2017 2:22 PM

#1328

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May 2012

2859

@DenjaX Have you noticed anything else?

Jan 4, 2017 2:26 PM

#1329

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Nov 2008

8506

Gruffin said:
DenjaX Have you noticed anything else?

You oddly defending Sonata. You town read him?

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Jan 4, 2017 2:29 PM

#1330

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May 2012

2859

DenjaX said:

Gruffin said:
DenjaX Have you noticed anything else?

You oddly defending Sonata. You town read him?

I've got a weak townlean on them.
The defense wasn't so much for Sonata, but pointing out what I felt was a flaw in your reasoning.

Jan 4, 2017 2:34 PM

#1331

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Jan 2010

15122

Gruffin said:
Or like, the Bursama flip shook their confidence in their read on Soren?

or Sonata could just tell us instead of you giving us speculation.

vote: Gruffin I've never real shaken my really game suspicion. Though I agree with your position on Lucian but that doesn't clear you add town. You just said not to long you'd let Lucian defend himself so why defend Sonata?

Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC

Jan 4, 2017 2:35 PM

#1332

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Nov 2008

8506

Gruffin said:
I've got a weak townlean on them.
The defense wasn't so much for Sonata, but pointing out what I felt was a flaw in your reasoning.

That is for Sonata to respond. I can't say it is flawed if you leave the real reasonings to mere speculation. I need to hear it from the man himself. Don't attempt to guide him for answers. Do it in your secret club.

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Jan 4, 2017 2:36 PM

#1333

Grapefruit21

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Dec 2016

1608

Getting caught up will respond soon. And phraze is right useless vote.

Unvote

Jan 4, 2017 2:36 PM

#1334

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May 2012

2859

Well dang. I guess I can't help myself, can I?

Jan 4, 2017 2:38 PM

#1335

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May 2012

2859

logic340 said:

Gruffin said:
Or like, the Bursama flip shook their confidence in their read on Soren?

or Sonata could just tell us instead of you giving us speculation.

vote: Gruffin I've never real shaken my really game suspicion. Though I agree with your position on Lucian but that doesn't clear you add town. You just said not to long you'd let Lucian defend himself so why defend Sonata?

As I said, I wasn't meaning to defend Sonata, but point out something I didn't agree with Denja on.

Jan 4, 2017 2:39 PM

#1336

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Nov 2008

8506

Gruffin said:
Well dang. I guess I can't help myself, can I?

The best moment to catch scum is to pressure someone at its weakest form. There, we can flesh out their true intentions for town. Confucius said that once.

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Jan 4, 2017 2:41 PM

#1337

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Jul 2018

564491

logic340 said:
@Lord_Sithis where do you stand on Sonata, Gruffin, and Kit?

Sonata leans town. Gruffin and Kit are neutral.

Jan 4, 2017 2:42 PM

#1338

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Nov 2008

8506

Gruffin said:
As I said, I wasn't meaning to defend Sonata, but point out something I didn't agree with Denja on.

You did not agree with me because it is flawed and countered by your speculations? Is that even an acceptable reason to disagree on? You mind read Sonata?

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Jan 4, 2017 2:43 PM

#1339

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May 2012

2859

DenjaX said:

Gruffin said:
Well dang. I guess I can't help myself, can I?

The best moment to catch scum is to pressure someone at its weakest form. There, we can flesh out their true intentions for town. Confucius said that once.

But yeah, I'll stop meddling now. >_< Sorry about that.

Jan 4, 2017 2:46 PM

#1340

Offline

Oct 2014

989

DenjaX said:

logic340 said:
DenjaX I know you're not the best with reads but is there something you see that some of us maybe missing?

I am still at page 21 and I find this post interesting:

Sonata said:
Second, I'm not asking to be pardoned, in fact what I meant by "taking responsibility" was offering myself up for a lynch in case there were no clues to follow and to give you security of my alignment if anything, I was just that sure that he'd flip scum (almost as sure as I am or was that Soren is scum aswell), but alas, I failed at being a good town, so I might aswell be lynched if that will bring tranquilty to the masses. Something I will say though, is that I am not (in the game context) scum, although my move and my person might as well be so.

So yeah, do as you please, I will just follow your guys' lead and point out whatever ideas I have but not make any decisive moves myself, since it hasn't worked for me lately which is kinda sad.

That's it. Pentaflare I hope you'll forgive me, personally.

The one that I bolded. See how Sonata knew that Soren is town even though it is still the Night Phase before Soren got killed. After the mislynch of Bursama, Sonata becomes too apologetic that he was "wrong" about his convictions and also included his conviction against Soren as well. To me, his act is mixed with crocodile tears to the point that he may have actually slipped in the process. xDD I mean, how could Sonata knew Soren is town?

?????

That is not what I meant, you're misreading on purpose or something. I meant that I thought he is, or was, since it was all depending on whether Bursama was scum or not (I was sure that Bursama was scum only because Soren had defended him day 1 yet didn't defend 0x40). I think you're just trying to see what's not there.

Jan 4, 2017 2:47 PM

#1341

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Jan 2010

15122

Gruffin said:

logic340 said:

or Sonata could just tell us instead of you giving us speculation.

vote: Gruffin I've never real shaken my really game suspicion. Though I agree with your position on Lucian but that doesn't clear you add town. You just said not to long you'd let Lucian defend himself so why defend Sonata?

As I said, I wasn't meaning to defend Sonata, but point out something I didn't agree with Denja on.

I think we've all made it it clear how we feel. I'm not sold on town!sonata just yet. I'd defiantly like to hear their take on Denja's question.

For now what are your thoughts on Penta

Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC

Jan 4, 2017 2:47 PM

#1342

Offline

Oct 2014

989

DenjaX said:

Gruffin said:
But Sonata said that they thought Soren was scum, not town.

Yeah but if Sonata thought that Soren was scum and admit that he was wrong before the flip, then Sonata considered Soren town. But how is that possible?

Again, I did not consider Soren town until I saw that Bursama was town aswell.

Jan 4, 2017 2:49 PM

#1343

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Jan 2010

15122

Sonata said:

DenjaX said:

Yeah but if Sonata thought that Soren was scum and admit that he was wrong before the flip, then Sonata considered Soren town. But how is that possible?

Again, I did not consider Soren town until I saw that Bursama was town aswell.

I'm not really seeing how one is contingent on the other.

Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC

Jan 4, 2017 2:50 PM

#1344

Offline

May 2012

2859

DenjaX said:

Gruffin said:
As I said, I wasn't meaning to defend Sonata, but point out something I didn't agree with Denja on.

You did not agree with me because it is flawed and countered by your speculations? Is that even an acceptable reason to disagree on? You mind read Sonata?

I did not agree because I thought I understood what they meant clearly by what they wrote. The part about being shaken by Bursama's flip is an assumption (heck, most behavioral analysis is), but the part where Sonata is talking about Bursama and not Soren is not. So I pointed it out in case you were trying to twist facts or were misreading something.

Jan 4, 2017 2:52 PM

#1345

Togs

Offline

Nov 2015

4744

🌟 Vote Count 3.7 🌟

Gruffin (3): Oyasumi_Rosie, Phraze, logic340
PentaFlare (1): DenjaX
Phraze (1): Lord_Sithis
Lord_Sithis (1): Gruffin
Kit (1): Sonata

Not Voting (4): Kit, LucianRoy, PentaFlare, Grapefruit21

With 11 alive, it’s 6 players to majority lynch.
If a majority lynch is not achieved by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched instead.

>>Day 3 Timer<<

Jan 4, 2017 2:52 PM

#1346

Offline

Oct 2014

989

logic340 said:

Sonata said:

Again, I did not consider Soren town until I saw that Bursama was town aswell.

I'm not really seeing how one is contingent on the other.

Read the post above that one. Also, it was part of the long ass post that I ended up deleting about the happenings of day 1. tl;dr was that I had a heavy scumread on Soren and that since he defended Bursama and Bursama only in day 1 I thought they might have been teaming up, checking the vote counts during day 1 time aswell. That's why when I saw Bursama was town I started doubting that Soren was town, nothing else.

Jan 4, 2017 2:53 PM

#1347

Offline

May 2012

2859

logic340 said:
I think we've all made it it clear how we feel. I'm not sold on town!sonata just yet. I'd defiantly like to hear their take on Denja's question.

For now what are your thoughts on Penta

Yeah.
I'm still working on my read of Penta for now. If you want a quick impression I've gotten from them, then they've been asking a bunch of questions aimed at gaining insight into others' thoughts, which is a plus. I'll have to go back and really look at what they've said though.

Jan 4, 2017 3:07 PM

#1348

Offline

Jan 2010

15122

Sonata said:

DenjaX said:

Yeah but if Sonata thought that Soren was scum and admit that he was wrong before the flip, then Sonata considered Soren town. But how is that possible?

Again, I did not consider Soren town until I saw that Bursama was town aswell.

so walk me through how Bursama's flip proves Soren is town to you?

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Jan 4, 2017 3:08 PM

#1349

Offline

Nov 2008

8506

Sonata said:
?????

That is not what I meant, you're misreading on purpose or something. I meant that I thought he is, or was, since it was all depending on whether Bursama was scum or not (I was sure that Bursama was scum only because Soren had defended him day 1 yet didn't defend 0x40). I think you're just trying to see what's not there.

How would you be for certain? When I was catching up, I initially thought Soren was fakeclaiming cop to save Bursama. I don't see how Bursama's flip waver your convictions against Soren too easily. You could think that Soren is White Knighting Bursama or you probably knew Soren is town. You just dropped your suspicion entirely.

Gruffin said:
I did not agree because I thought I understood what they meant clearly by what they wrote. The part about being shaken by Bursama's flip is an assumption (heck, most behavioral analysis is), but the part where Sonata is talking about Bursama and not Soren is not. So I pointed it out in case you were trying to twist facts or were misreading something.

So you are saying your assumption is better than mine? I still fail to see why your assumption can hold ground on my case on Sonata. I got my assumption, hence, it results to my questioning. And all I got was your answers and not Sonata's.

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Jan 4, 2017 3:12 PM

#1350