aa-dono said: logic340 said: Yessu I did.From my experience with him as scum he did not claim early. He waited until late and claimed Vanilla. As town I have seen him claim early 2 times out of 3 town games. I don't know enough about roles and what now what are your thoughts on Jack/Penta's conversation about multiple backup roles? @aa-dono did you tag me or quote me in a post I missed somewhere? "Though this is for @logic340 what about Jack's tone that makes him town to you?" I want Logic to answer this as well, since normally people take issue with my tone. |
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logic340 said: Shinichi-Kun said: From my experience with him as scum he did not claim early. He waited until late and claimed Vanilla. As town I have seen him claim early 2 times out of 3 town games. I don't know enough about roles and what now what are your thoughts on Jack/Penta's conversation about multiple backup roles?has he ever lied about his role as scum? Seems like he only makes up roles or claims early as town. @aa-dono did you tag me or quote me in a post I missed somewhere? I dont think their is multiple back up roles but at the same time if there really is then there waa sno harm in him claiming that role. Lol exactly is seems grrr only makes fake claims as town this is one of those claims i feel like he did to stop people from finding the real doctor if there is one. |
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Jackrito said: Shinichi-Kun said: This what im confused aout some posts he defends her while others he sugegsts we need to lycn her Where have I ever defended them just because I say they could be bad town it does not mean I want them to live. I'm just worried of mislynching by been biased you saw my last game with Reynii. I'm worried about doing that again. If I can't get a better read Ruu is dying today, I would of preferred a vig shot. Then why bring it up then? How is it biased if u think someones scummy follow through don't back off cause of emotions. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Jackrito said: The reasons that a lot of Lucians posts were commentary/fluff and looked like forced scum hunting, these are the things I notice most when Lucian is scum. I talked to Penta about those reasons early day one. I was always ok with Lucian as a lynch I started the push but then backed off once I did he was very subpar as a player and it looked to me he was trying to go under the radar. I don't understand this next part that stuff is what is making me try to redo my read on Ruu, they are not helping their case though. I already gave you my thoughts on the train the person I suspect most atm is Dono. I can't make my mind up on Logic atm they are both good and bad things he has done but his emotion like I said before just comes off as annoyed townie and paranoid. I know you don't like Chione atm but I still do something about thier approach and play is making me say town, yes they led the mislynch on Lucian but the reasons for it made sense to me so I refuse to scum read off that since town can mislynch. I do like Penta as well but I need a bit more from him a lot of his play atm is coming off a bit passive this whole grr nurse thing is throwing me as well. Penta can be a tricky scum so I'm weary here. I need a Ruu flip to be sure since he has a history of not bussing. He is still one of my better town reads I just need a bit more scum hunting I dont understand that tho cause thats normally what lucian does either way tho ur basically stating u voted him cause his meta was different. I must be misinterpeting your posts on ruu because some suggest ur defending her while other are suggesting to lycn her. Dono vote should be one of the least suspect since it was on him all phase and she was gone during the last 5 hours of the phase change. Lucian train lit on fire during the last 2 hours. Your vote seemed more like a sheep once u realized it was posible to get a train going on lucian. While chione dropped her strongest read out of emotion to target someone who i still feel like wasnt doing anything scummy. Scum can mislynch too just saying. Penta is still one of my town reads and yes ive noticed his passiveness. I still think grrr is prob the real doctor who inherited lucian role and is just playing games with us. When do you see me sheep as scum that late on, it looks bad to do so. Sheeping also implies I had no reasons of my own to vote them. Either lynch was fine with me I just changed to one I was more confident on. Also why would I be annoyed at Logic voting Lucian if I wanted him dead. |
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aa-dono said: Shinichi-Kun said: I explain when necessary. What's the point of telling everyone why grape is town to me when he's not on the verge of lynch? And so when you lynch Penta for withholding information, did you catch scum? You would know better than me that it's not an indicator. If I have a good scumread, I'll share it because I would want my scumread lynched. Not the same case with townreads.Always explain your town reads, penta got lynched for townreading followind without giving us any reasons though we learned he had utside game reasons that he couldnt tell us of course. So basicaly u thought lucian was scum cause he was scum reading someone u believe who was town? So now that he flipped town what does that say about ruu's alignment? Also what do u think about her miller claim and the way she presented it? No comment on the last part your letting bad judgement take reign there. No, I thought Lucian was scum from the way he focused on grrr. If I was to scumread someone based on their disagreement with me, that'll be a lot of scum :O Him flipping town says nothing about Ruu's alignment. But yeah, that miller claim was bad. But well, you know where I stand on the matter. :/ Alright. It is an indicator regardless penta case was just special because he was getting reads from an unfinished game that is all outside of that i cant see reasons to hide information outside of games that have alot of manipulation like your conversion game. Him flipping town shows alot about ruu's and grrrs alignment actually. Exactly if the claim was bad why are u still giving her the benefit of the doubt? |
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Jackrito said: Shinichi-Kun said: @Coelestin Not gonna quote that huge post and try to find the stuff just on me lol 2nd vote is prob the worst one out of all my votes ill agree. But the rest of my votes are fine i explained all of them. Also the biggest reason for me unvoting ruu was cause i was not gonna be here for phase change but ya come at me if u think im scum, i love when people get the strange idea that im scum when i play so townlike atleast i thought i did. This last line is a red flag why are you self aware of trying to play townie. That is not a normal town way of thinking it should be natural. not really a red flag since alot of people do it way more often than me is should be neutral tbf lol. |
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Jackrito said: They are a lot more people in the game then them, your posts just come off as though you don't want to hunt scum but just look, are you even voting atm? I gave my thoughts on Grrr, Coelestin, a bit of you, Grape, a bit of logic, Shin-chan, Ruu. People I've yet to have a quite an opinion yet: Pentaflare - I'm kinda' scared of Penta's posts because I always loved them and has townread scum Penta and vice versa in almost all games we're in. Qoco - not sure. Karote - wavering opinion. Lam-B - I could never read him. Maybe I have a language barrier. Oyasumi_Rosie - I completely forgot except that CP doesn't want her lynched. Alright. You have a point. |
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Jackrito said: Because he said nurse, inheritor sounded like it would of took any role nurse can only take Doc yes but grrr always does this tho he claims stuff that he might be in strange ways or he staight up lies to protect the real roles. |
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Jackrito said: Jackrito said: Because he said nurse, inheritor sounded like it would of took any role nurse can only take Doc Actually I take this back, I'm reading too much into the story, it would make no sense in a bastard game to give a role hint in story it is a chance the role is fake or has a different name and actually was the nurse. See this what happens when u take a step back and actually think |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Jackrito said: Where have I ever defended them just because I say they could be bad town it does not mean I want them to live. I'm just worried of mislynching by been biased you saw my last game with Reynii. I'm worried about doing that again. If I can't get a better read Ruu is dying today, I would of preferred a vig shot. Then why bring it up then? How is it biased if u think someones scummy follow through don't back off cause of emotions. What I mean by been biased is that I think they are scum already so will see every post as scum, and miss any signs of them been town, I did this with Reynii. It has nothing to do with emotions it is more I don't want to make a mistake by been headstrong and having a ego. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Jackrito said: This last line is a red flag why are you self aware of trying to play townie. That is not a normal town way of thinking it should be natural. not really a red flag since alot of people do it way more often than me is should be neutral tbf lol. Not something I really notice, it just seems like something that is not needed to be said. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: I didn't ask you to vote Karote as I am not even doing that myself for reasons stated? Not sure what to make of you because you seem to misinterpret a lot of what I say to you this game? This post had nothing to do with convincing about Karote one way or the other. I was sharing my view on him and that was all you know when I want someone to vote with me I ask very directly.logic340 said: I've never killed DenjaX before so that isn't true....lol. Do I have to do another ISO defending a town read? He reasons weren't just "I can get behind that" as Karote would lead you to believe Shinichi. Karote has done very little and the only reason I am not scum reading him is because this is the way he has always played as town but I find his style detrimental to town which is why I picked at it so much when I was scum in Alcatraz. well picking at that is just fine but if u want me to actually vote him i need a solid case not meta reasons lol. |
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Jackrito said: Shinichi-Kun said: I dont understand that tho cause thats normally what lucian does either way tho ur basically stating u voted him cause his meta was different. I must be misinterpeting your posts on ruu because some suggest ur defending her while other are suggesting to lycn her. Dono vote should be one of the least suspect since it was on him all phase and she was gone during the last 5 hours of the phase change. Lucian train lit on fire during the last 2 hours. Your vote seemed more like a sheep once u realized it was posible to get a train going on lucian. While chione dropped her strongest read out of emotion to target someone who i still feel like wasnt doing anything scummy. Scum can mislynch too just saying. Penta is still one of my town reads and yes ive noticed his passiveness. I still think grrr is prob the real doctor who inherited lucian role and is just playing games with us. When do you see me sheep as scum that late on, it looks bad to do so. Sheeping also implies I had no reasons of my own to vote them. Either lynch was fine with me I just changed to one I was more confident on. Also why would I be annoyed at Logic voting Lucian if I wanted him dead. IF u had ur own reasons why did u wait for someone else to start the train? Town motivated palyers will try to get the trains started themselves not sheep them. When do i let meta just my supicions and votes? Where did i mention logic? |
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Jackrito said: Shinichi-Kun said: not really a red flag since alot of people do it way more often than me is should be neutral tbf lol. Not something I really notice, it just seems like something that is not needed to be said. Lucian and logic honestly do it alot, i normally say it out of fustration. |
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logic340 said: Shinichi-Kun said: I didn't ask you to vote Karote as I am not even doing that myself for reasons stated? Not sure what to make of you because you seem to misinterpret a lot of what I say to you this game? This post had nothing to do with convincing about Karote one way or the other. I was sharing my view on him and that was all you know when I want someone to vote with me I ask very directly.well picking at that is just fine but if u want me to actually vote him i need a solid case not meta reasons lol. Well people have different mindsets its not uncommon for something to get misinterpreted |
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aa-dono said: Jackrito said: They are a lot more people in the game then them, your posts just come off as though you don't want to hunt scum but just look, are you even voting atm? I gave my thoughts on Grrr, Coelestin, a bit of you, Grape, a bit of logic, Shin-chan, Ruu. People I've yet to have a quite an opinion yet: Pentaflare - I'm kinda' scared of Penta's posts because I always loved them and has townread scum Penta and vice versa in almost all games we're in. Qoco - not sure. Karote - wavering opinion. Lam-B - I could never read him. Maybe I have a language barrier. Oyasumi_Rosie - I completely forgot except that CP doesn't want her lynched. Alright. You have a point. Ok this is a bit better the fact you actually aknowledge them. I know that bunch is hard to read, I need you to show some thoughts on them since it is easy to be vague and small sample size the game. It is one of my big issues with Ruu as well. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Because I know what it's like to play better as scum. >,>Exactly if the claim was bad why are u still giving her the benefit of the doubt? That's why I understand people scumreading her. I just can't. Even if I find millions reason to, there'll be this tiny tiny but really strong voice that would say "you play bad town game too. How is Ruu different?" I hate to admit that. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Jackrito said: When do you see me sheep as scum that late on, it looks bad to do so. Sheeping also implies I had no reasons of my own to vote them. Either lynch was fine with me I just changed to one I was more confident on. Also why would I be annoyed at Logic voting Lucian if I wanted him dead. IF u had ur own reasons why did u wait for someone else to start the train? Town motivated palyers will try to get the trains started themselves not sheep them. When do i let meta just my supicions and votes? Where did i mention logic? I was on the train but left earlier after discussion, I gave my reasons then and was pretty strong on them, the main reason for change came from how bad Ruu was and I was happy with that until Chione brought Lucian back up and it was a early scum read for me that was still on my mind so I went back there. I brought up Logic because when he voted Lucian I got annoyed at him because it tied it and I did not want a tie after seeing the other game. If I wanted Lucian dead my first thought would be happy about that. |
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| Ok, Jack might be town then. Vote: logic340 Since you asked, I assumed you were prepared to answer. |
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aa-dono said: Shinichi-Kun said: Because I know what it's like to play better as scum. >,>Exactly if the claim was bad why are u still giving her the benefit of the doubt? That's why I understand people scumreading her. I just can't. Even if I find millions reason to, there'll be this tiny tiny but really strong voice that would say "you play bad town game too. How is Ruu different?" I hate to admit that. lol >_> i dont understand how u can play such a good scum game but not realize emotions=scummy. All im getting from this is i think ur town which i guess is a good thing |
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Jackrito said: Shinichi-Kun said: IF u had ur own reasons why did u wait for someone else to start the train? Town motivated palyers will try to get the trains started themselves not sheep them. When do i let meta just my supicions and votes? Where did i mention logic? I was on the train but left earlier after discussion, I gave my reasons then and was pretty strong on them, the main reason for change came from how bad Ruu was and I was happy with that until Chione brought Lucian back up and it was a early scum read for me that was still on my mind so I went back there. I brought up Logic because when he voted Lucian I got annoyed at him because it tied it and I did not want a tie after seeing the other game. If I wanted Lucian dead my first thought would be happy about that. Still dont get why u didnt bring ucian up back yourself, honestly i liked u day 1 not so much day 2 lol. Ya honestly i wouuld rather have had a tie then lucian be dead but thats me being biased cause he was town. Logic tries to tie votes alot |
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| @grrr also there is nothing strange about me not voting seeing as how i like to think my votes out |
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Vote Count 2.3 Grapefruit21: Grrr, Pentaflare Karote: Qoco, Coelestin Jackrito: Karote aa-dono: Jackrito grrr: Grapefruit21 logic340: aa-dono Those not voting Logic340, Shinichi-Kun, Ruu, Lam-B, Oyasumi_Rosie, What has already transpired Phase Day one! || Vote count 1.1 || 1.2 || 1.3 || 1.4 || 1.5 || 1.6 || 1.7 || 1.8 || 1.9 || 1.10 || 1.11 || 1.12 || 1.13 || 1.14 || 1.15 Night one Day 2 || Vote Count 2.0 || 2.1 || 2.2 || 2.3 || |
SoulEaterQUEENApr 21, 2017 10:40 AM
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Shinichi-Kun said: PentaFlare said: It's not entirely without reason. I didn't want grrr sitting on a vote that was just kind of out there and doing nothing. The options to ensure that doesn't happen are to pressure him to change or to join him so his vote is a leading trains and will create discussion. I chose the latter. Makes sense but why not post that with ur vote that would have competely changed my view point of your vote. Because I needed to see reactions to the vote. I'm surprised by how easily it was brushed off with just a "oh, weird" by most. |
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PentaFlare said: Shinichi-Kun said: Makes sense but why not post that with ur vote that would have competely changed my view point of your vote. Because I needed to see reactions to the vote. I'm surprised by how easily it was brushed off with just a "oh, weird" by most. honestly not that i think aobut it, not many people questioned either votes it was like only me/logic. Well back to town reading u again, cause i still like ur day 1 vote |
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aa-dono said: It all starts with #240, his first post of the game is very straight forward, no nonsense, he could have fluffed for his first post but he got right down to business. He talks about the big issue at the time being Ruu (town)/Lucian (scum)and even calls me out about Rinto mode (without using my name). The way he digs into Graepfruit about his early reads voicing his displeasure while not painting Grapefruit in an overly negative light. His approach isn't to lead people to a conclusion imo but rather to bring thing to people attention. Really like #243 where he says he was just defending Ruu but doesn't like her RVS Train post (same thing I picked up on). #593 telling you it would be strange if you trusted him just feel genuine and real since as scum he could use that as a reason to paint you as scum. His talk with Lam about Shinichi in #603 would be another example. he isn't solely focused on one target or a few bad plays to find scum he is actively searching and thinking about different things happening in the game. logic340 said: Yessu I did.From my experience with him as scum he did not claim early. He waited until late and claimed Vanilla. As town I have seen him claim early 2 times out of 3 town games. I don't know enough about roles and what now what are your thoughts on Jack/Penta's conversation about multiple backup roles? @aa-dono did you tag me or quote me in a post I missed somewhere? "Though this is for @logic340 what about Jack's tone that makes him town to you?" ^^^^^ Jackrito said: I want Logic to answer this as well, since normally people take issue with my tone. Also what does others usually having a problem with your tone have to do with me liking it this game? |
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aa-dono said: Sorry for the delay I am at work and it was my lunch hour. Ok, Jack might be town then. Vote: logic340 Since you asked, I assumed you were prepared to answer. |
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logic340 said: aa-dono said: It all starts with #240, his first post of the game is very straight forward, no nonsense, he could have fluffed for his first post but he got right down to business. He talks about the big issue at the time being Ruu (town)/Lucian (scum)and even calls me out about Rinto mode (without using my name). The way he digs into Graepfruit about his early reads voicing his displeasure while not painting Grapefruit in an overly negative light. His approach isn't to lead people to a conclusion imo but rather to bring thing to people attention. Really like #243 where he says he was just defending Ruu but doesn't like her RVS Train post (same thing I picked up on). #593 telling you it would be strange if you trusted him just feel genuine and real since as scum he could use that as a reason to paint you as scum. His talk with Lam about Shinichi in #603 would be another example. he isn't solely focused on one target or a few bad plays to find scum he is actively searching and thinking about different things happening in the game. Yessu I did. "Though this is for @logic340 what about Jack's tone that makes him town to you?" ^^^^^ Jackrito said: I want Logic to answer this as well, since normally people take issue with my tone. Also what does others usually having a problem with your tone have to do with me liking it this game? It makes me worry of pocket attempts. I'm used to not been trusted from my strong scum games. So been town read easy is a concern. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Hey now I have been trying to be better about it lately. And when I do it am not that self aware it's generally me saying I'm town because I know I am so why can't you all see it type of thing. Penta explained it perfectly in the dead chat of Kitty mafia. Which is why I find it weird when he scum reads me now since he seems to have such a good understanding of my mindset. Jackrito said: Not something I really notice, it just seems like something that is not needed to be said. Lucian and logic honestly do it alot, i normally say it out of fustration. |
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Jackrito said: I wouldn't say it's easy as I had a town lean on you yesterday, just was concerned about the pocket from you due to mind melding like we did in FT game, but I feel that was me overthinking things early here. Your concern and disbelief are noted and expected to an extent. If you just accepted what i had said without question then I would be questioning my initial read. logic340 said: It all starts with #240, his first post of the game is very straight forward, no nonsense, he could have fluffed for his first post but he got right down to business. He talks about the big issue at the time being Ruu (town)/Lucian (scum)and even calls me out about Rinto mode (without using my name). The way he digs into Graepfruit about his early reads voicing his displeasure while not painting Grapefruit in an overly negative light. His approach isn't to lead people to a conclusion imo but rather to bring thing to people attention. Really like #243 where he says he was just defending Ruu but doesn't like her RVS Train post (same thing I picked up on). #593 telling you it would be strange if you trusted him just feel genuine and real since as scum he could use that as a reason to paint you as scum. His talk with Lam about Shinichi in #603 would be another example. he isn't solely focused on one target or a few bad plays to find scum he is actively searching and thinking about different things happening in the game. ^^^^^ Also what does others usually having a problem with your tone have to do with me liking it this game? It makes me worry of pocket attempts. I'm used to not been trusted from my strong scum games. So been town read easy is a concern. I will take that pocket statement as a compliment. My first scum game I pocket players like Rinto and Rosie. So to move from them to you would be a huge step up for me. I am not there yet but maybe one day....lol. Thankfully I don't have to worry about pocketing. |
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logic340 said: That because RVS was over at the point.aa-dono said: It all starts with #240, his first post of the game is very straight forward, no nonsense, he could have fluffed for his first post but he got right down to business. He talks about the big issue at the time being Ruu (town)/Lucian (scum)and even calls me out about Rinto mode (without using my name). The way he digs into Graepfruit about his early reads voicing his displeasure while not painting Grapefruit in an overly negative light. His approach isn't to lead people to a conclusion imo but rather to bring thing to people attention. Really like #243 where he says he was just defending Ruu but doesn't like her RVS Train post (same thing I picked up on). #593 telling you it would be strange if you trusted him just feel genuine and real since as scum he could use that as a reason to paint you as scum. His talk with Lam about Shinichi in #603 would be another example. he isn't solely focused on one target or a few bad plays to find scum he is actively searching and thinking about different things happening in the game. Yessu I did. "Though this is for @logic340 what about Jack's tone that makes him town to you?" ^^^^^ Jackrito said: I want Logic to answer this as well, since normally people take issue with my tone. Also what does others usually having a problem with your tone have to do with me liking it this game? Fair point on Lucy/Ruu. Jack just doesn't like inactivity in general. That point on Grape is what I call being careful with your words. It's a good push if Jack's scum. I can understand the point on Ruu. It's because he's so careful with what he replies to me that makes me doubt him in the first place. Jack is good with words. What you saw genuine was what I read as "ok, not gonna push her now, maybe a bit later." Btw, your answer is more behaviour than tone :P Why do you think this makes him town? The way he digs into Graepfruit about his early reads voicing his displeasure while not painting Grapefruit in an overly negative light. |
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Well I guess I don't know the difference. When I say I tone I don't get the feeling he's trying to make people go along with him more than make people understand where he is coming from. What I am getting at with what you quoted is he gave his two cents and left it at that he didn't try to paint grapefruit one way or the other stated what he didn't like and moved on. Even I as town get too hung up on things (which gets me scum read) while Jack seems to be actively trying to figure things out (everything) as opposed to making something fit what he is thinking. |
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PentaFlare said: How do you expect people to react to empty vote though? Could be that you wanted reaction, but when people see empty vote, wouldn't they just normally ignore it for later if you left it for too long or if they're stuck on their own reads.Shinichi-Kun said: Makes sense but why not post that with ur vote that would have competely changed my view point of your vote. Because I needed to see reactions to the vote. I'm surprised by how easily it was brushed off with just a "oh, weird" by most. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Coelestin said: Why should I vote for Ruu when she's not there and my vote on her would literally do nothing? I could have always gotten her lynched later and I knew that. And I’ve never played with grape before, there’s no way I could know that. When I voted for him earlier in the day, I got little complaints on the vote other than from himself. Interestingly enough no one followed me on the train despite the lack of complaints and even some people who agreed with my views on him. So why does it bother you now? Sure, everything can be scum motivation, grrr could be scum for all I know and laughing his ass of that I'm actually defending him. However, even grrr is human, trusting him is a conscious choice, and I'm bold enough to explicitly stand by my reads without hesitation. Of course I am capable of changing my mind if there's good reason to, however, I don't see a good reason to do that yet. And your posts after this one show that you're putting me on the high pedestal again. It's always the same with you. Cause shes a scum read it sohuldnt matter if she could defend herself or not when your suppose to vote those who you deem scum not go on the next best target who i mind you flipped town. Im bringing it up now because i had just got home and this post caught my attention??? Is there any reason why i cant bring it up when i know how grape plays really well. Of course i will put you on high pedestal, you lynched a townie lol. I dislike your and logic reason the most for being on that train. Also of course grrr can be scum motivated but how u gonna try to compare him to others when u know thats not how he plays. If you would've actually read the whole post and just wouldn't have the part where I actually explained why I went after Luce instead of Ruu away for your own convenience, then you'd have noticed that I already said that I did not not go after Ruu because she wasn't online but because I had more confidence in my Luce read. My goodness. Read, Shinichi, read. I'll explain to you again what I just wrote above there. Nobody complained to me when I first went after grape at the beginning of day and had my vote on him for like 10 hours. I think you should have seen THAT vote. From those who expressed their opinion of my vote on grape there was: Qoco, who liked my vote Jack, who agreed with my vote CP, who agreed with me that grape's reads were a bit forceful but it's not too far off his town game aa-dono, who liked my vote Luce, who just said that he liked the interaction at the beginning of the game he had with grape Logic, who first says that grape has left him with little impression and had some doubts on grape later on here So, with little saying against my initial read, and because it's better to vote for Grape and see if I can get more out of him instead of doing nothing, I decided to vote with grrr for him. Which I already said here: Coelestin said: PentaFlare said: Can someone explain the grapefruit case to me? All I am seeing right now is a difference in playstyle and that seems like a really weak reason for a lynch Just finding his reasons a bit forced, tho I'm just stuck myself and don't really know what to do so yeah. I just followed grrr out of curiosity mostly, a bit of boredom to see if grape has something to say after grrr's "outing". Dunno why grrr voted for him though. Grape's still generally falling under the radar so I guess it's not too bad. And you are telling me you're only seeing it now that you're actually scum reading me. Alright. Oh and I'm not talking about that pedestal. I'm talking about the "Coel is capable of everything" pedestal. Cause apparently you've gone so paranoid of the thought of me being scum that you cannot even properly try to see me as town. Which was exactly the same thing you did in Shounen Crossover where you even voted for me after I was on the lynch on scum together with other townies. And about grrr. I've changed my mind. Read what I posted about him in the reads list. However, I will not deny that "grrr is townie" truly was my first reaction and a legit one at that. Because I'm trying to see things from different perspectives and the perspective of grrr being town was just the most probable one for me at that point. Shinichi-Kun said: Coelestin said: Actually, I'm stupid. I just noticed that most of the meta I have on grrr is based on two scum games with him and one town game in which his plans were just horrible. Forget everything I said, my reads are horrific in this game. You guys were right. who was right? Luce. You. On grrr at least. logic340 said: #261 - Chione telling Ruu to move her vote off Lucina yet not saying anything to Karote who had a RVS vote our for 14 pages. 1. I never told her to move off her vote from Lucina. I only questioned why she didn't do it. There's a difference. 2. I even said that I'd like more pressure on Karote. I will admit though that I forgot to question him further if that's what you want to accuse me of. Ruu said: Chione is different, her posts are good but I don't see a townie behind them. She also defends lamb a lot from logic in the beginning which seemed odd to me. And I can see a lamb/Chione team. I don't have anything about the first point, everyone perceives behavior differently after all. About the second point, why is it odd? About the third point, it's bad in general because you shouldn't base your suspicions on how you can see scum teams but mostly how the player plays individually first. It's a different matter if one scum has acutally flipped but that's not the case here. grapefruit21 said: What are your thoughts on Ruu? How about your wagon mates on Lucian? Who do you feel is most likely scum outside that pool? Ruu, same as yesterday. Read in the read list. Scummiest is aa-dono. Read in the read list. Grapefruit21 said: Coelestin said: Vote: Lam-B His lack of presence is becoming concerning, now that it is D2 we cannot let this slide. @Lam-B We need a read list from you or at least something similar. I agree, but why Lam-b in particular? @aa-dono There were/are other options to lynch than Ruu/Lucian. And what is wrong with unvoting? I think he's the easiest to figure out once we have a read list from him since we just need to see what would align with his actions D1. Plus he is a great asset to town imo when confirmed so I'd like to figure him out as early as possible to see if his posts are credible. I think he will give me a read list or something similar tho regardless of whether or not I ask him to since he isn't asocial enough to just dismiss something like that (I think. Or at least hope). Which is why I voted for Karote next, who I think talks more when votes are on him. Shinichi-Kun said: Coelestin said: Vote: Lam-B His lack of presence is becoming concerning, now that it is D2 we cannot let this slide. @Lam-B We need a read list from you or at least something similar. how so? Also how is voting him gonna make a difference? Surprisingly, people are more willing to talk when they are voted on, y'know. Shinichi-Kun said: @Coelestin Not gonna quote that huge post and try to find the stuff just on me lol 2nd vote is prob the worst one out of all my votes ill agree. But the rest of my votes are fine i explained all of them. Also the biggest reason for me unvoting ruu was cause i was not gonna be here for phase change That's why I said that the read isn't complete. I only skimmed through most of it. Scum read me for it but I was too burned out to look at literally everything you posted. Shinichi said: but ya come at me if u think im scum, i love when people get the strange idea that im scum when i play so townlike atleast i thought i did. And this is the biggest bs I've ever heard. It's not strange at all that people would get the idea of you being scum. Sadly exactly this what you just said is something I myself as town have thought many times before which is why I've got to say you get town cred on this one, even if it sounds strange. Get off your high horse Shin. You are way too arrogant now. Gonna move on to reading all the reads and reads list the others have posted now. |
CoelestinApr 21, 2017 1:10 PM
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| Leaving work I will be back on shortly. On mobile ping me with small stuff. |
| Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
Coelestin said: logic340 said: #261 - Chione telling Ruu to move her vote off Lucina yet not saying anything to Karote who had a RVS vote our for 14 pages. 1. I never told her to move off her vote from Lucina. I only questioned why she didn't do it. There's a difference. 2. I even said that I'd like more pressure on Karote. I will admit though that I forgot to question him further if that's what you want to accuse me of. 1. Fair enough, I misrepresented you. I took your question to mean you rented it in a better place but you could of just wanted what you felt was a legitimate reason. I still feel it's a bit of a double standard though as no one hounded Karote during the 14 pages his vote day in Ruu yet Ruu gets questioned multiple times in 5 pages? 2. Kind of answered this above. 5 pages on Lucian brought suspicion Ruu's way. 14 pages on Ruu draws no suspicion or questions? |
| Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
| I decided to do an ISO read of grapefruit (up until the end of day 1) since I had a vote on them but didn't have a strong impression of them day 1. I just didn't really notice them because my thoughts were elsewhere. I'm not going to write a detailed post about everything because I actually took notes with pencil and paper, but I'm going to highlight the most important things. I'm surprised I didn't have a strong impression of grape on day 1 because looking back, I've found a wide variety of scumtells. Not just one, but multiple different scumtells. I'll give a little explanation of each. First is a tonal scumtell in regards to grape's view of grrr. For most of the phase, grape is very focused on the idea of scum!grrr and is very confident in their scumread. In fact, in posts like #496, grape is treating grrr like you would treat confirmed scum. However, in #212, there is a sudden shift of tone that only lasts for this post (and one extra sentence in #194, but #212 highlights it better). Grape is saying that this one thing they have been going at grrr's throat all phase for is a "low impact offense" but is scummy only because everything else is mostly fluff. This tonal change is really scummy, because it shows that grape doesn't actually have a strong scumread on grrr, but are trying really hard to make grrr appear scummy. A town member would have a consistent tone towards a person, either really strong or more moderate, but grape doesn't. A read can change, but it would do so in a directed manner, whereas grape didn't start to back off after this softer post, just went back to going hard at grrr. It's a slip of grape's actual knowledge that the case on grrr is fake. Another scumtell I have picked up on are their hyperbolic reads. Grape is waaay too fast to give someone a scumread or a townread. This isn't related to early game where they came up with FOS on Qoco and grrr and two small townreads. Grape said those were weak. What I'm referring to is later on when grape will get a really strong read off just one thing. For example, their read on logic. Grape said that logic's case on Lamby "screamed town" (#493. The loaded diction implies heavy confidence and that the read should be obvious to anyone. However, this isn't justified. Grape is basing this read off meta, which can give townreads, but is never enough to instantly read someone as town off one case. This is a scummy read because someone who knows who is town easily sees town motive in everything they do, especially when referring to meta. They know that this is their town game, so they relate it subconsciously to their other town games. Meta is the easiest way to catch scum giving a townread too fast. The third scumtell is that grape is focused so much on asking really easy questions and not analyzing much. Post #500 is a great example of a whole bunch of really easy questions that don't take a lot of critical thinking to come up with. grape is keeping busy by asking a bunch of easy questions to keep the appearance of generating information, but isn't taking the step of analyzing the information they have been working to produce and condensing it into reads. The first part is what every player who isn't super familiar with playing scum thinks is most important to appear to do because it is "hunting" for information, but it is the second that reveals if they are actually trying to find scum. Grape makes reads, but looking at each of them, I haven't found signs of critical thinking outside of post #496 (linked earlier) where there is a meta comparison for logic which isn't enough to support the strength of the read on logic, and is meta, which is the easiest analysis to fake. The read on grrr has nothing. It is IIoA. Grape focuses on statements like "grrr is trying to find information about PRs" instead of analysis. Also, look at the vote on grrr (#174). It is awwwwwful. A bunch of neutral statements and questions to grrr, then a vote out of the blue with not explanation. Finally, and this one mostly explains itself, grape has been fudding a little here and there. Especially #496 in the way they paint grrr as a bane to town and completely untrustworthy with emotional appeal, which is often scummy rhetoric when another person is the subject. This is the weakest, but add it to everything here, and jeez. There is so much scum mindset visible everywhere. So, although my original vote for grapefruit had nothing to do with them and everything to do with grrr, it is now sticking, and it has everything to do with grape. |
Be like this seal. It is a happy seal. ~Review Guidelines~ | ~Recommendation Guidelines~ | ~Mafia Society~ |
aa-dono said: PentaFlare said: How do you expect people to react to empty vote though? Could be that you wanted reaction, but when people see empty vote, wouldn't they just normally ignore it for later if you left it for too long or if they're stuck on their own reads.Because I needed to see reactions to the vote. I'm surprised by how easily it was brushed off with just a "oh, weird" by most. Question it. Me and grrr both placed votes with no reasoning (although mine included an impression of a sheep). On day 2, there is no such thing as RVS. I hadn't expressed a read on grape yet because they hadn't been on my radar much yet. I was waiting for a "wait Penta, since when do you scumread grape?" or something like that. Nothing. I don't know what to make of it. |
Be like this seal. It is a happy seal. ~Review Guidelines~ | ~Recommendation Guidelines~ | ~Mafia Society~ |
| Qoco - still suspicious of him though I have taken a step back due to personal bias. He isn't scum hunting, he isn't dropping any reads, he isn't dong much to help progress the game imo. Karote - would probably be scum reading him pretty hard if this wasn't how he always plays D1. That being said he isn't getting a town read and isn't getting let off the hook either. Not liking that vote on Jack when Jack questioned him about who is a good lynch today since Karote was complaining about the previous one, but we'll see how things progress Lam-B - info dump and go is what I call his style. I find him very hard to read. Wish I would have gotten some kind of interactions from him but our time zones keep that from happening. I feel like this is so remenicent of his scum game more than the town game I saw but there is nothing from this game that I can really say is scum Lam 100% certain. Oyasumi_Rosie - I love her fluff but enough is enough. I need to hear her thoughts on the game. Don't want to lynch her for being carefree townie but she needs to contribute and prove she is townie. Ruu - She has some things to clear up. Still not sold on scum!Ruu yet but she is making it increasingly harder to defend against the scum reads being leveled against her. If you guys want to lynch her far be it from me to stop you at this point. grrr - From my experience he has only ever claimed like this as town. Lam-b's claim and Penta's talk about Ascetic makes me think this may be a legitimate claim on top of what I know of grrr. Grapefruit21 - He is a mechanical player so wanting to lynch Ruu for her claim and when she claimed seems to fit his style. I do wish he would think about why town might claim in that situation if they didn't claim right out the gate. I can see his argument but I don't agree with it. I need to look into Penta's case and see what I find as I also felt he lacked presence D1 as well? I haven't called him transparent which is what I usually points to town Grapefruit...time to read. Coelestin - I don't think she asks me to jump on the Lucian train like that as scum. Maybe I am wrong but with how hard I scum read her in our last game (shit was emotional) I don't think scum Coelestin comes at me in this manner. Also that apology for the lynch seems very genuine and attention grabbing in a way that mafia would want to avoid imo Shinichi - I am just not getting that vibe that I have been getting the last few games. That very motivated to win as town vibe. I really need to look harder into him but even though I don't feel that motivation I can't make a good case for scumnichi either. aa-dono - definitely looks to be scum hunting. D1 was a mix for her but the one think is the vote staying on Lucian. That cannot be attributed solely to scum so it's NAI. I am really liking her D2 so far but I need to see more as I feel biased because the majority of it revolves around soring me. Penta - I never know how to feel about Penta. I usually give him a really hard but I feel like I need to step back and slow down. His position on the train makes me wonder but it's not a solid tell. I'm kind of torn on this grapefruit case because it could be seen as scum trying to justify a vote but I don't see Penta making that move as scum? Jackrito - I stated it recently but I am feeling pretty comfortable here. I can follow his though process well. His vote on Lucian was well explained throughout D1 before the move. He's been consistent in my opinion and I can't say he seems fairly unaligned. #982 and #1169 seem particularly townie. in #1169 ce isn't closing off Ruu as an option and is suggesting we continue the search (something I like to do). |
| Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
| @Grapefruit21 how serious are you about lynching Ruu today? Can you walk me through why grrr has to be scum for his claim? |
| Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
aa-dono said: logic340 said: That because RVS was over at the point.It all starts with #240, his first post of the game is very straight forward, no nonsense, he could have fluffed for his first post but he got right down to business. He talks about the big issue at the time being Ruu (town)/Lucian (scum)and even calls me out about Rinto mode (without using my name). The way he digs into Graepfruit about his early reads voicing his displeasure while not painting Grapefruit in an overly negative light. His approach isn't to lead people to a conclusion imo but rather to bring thing to people attention. Really like #243 where he says he was just defending Ruu but doesn't like her RVS Train post (same thing I picked up on). #593 telling you it would be strange if you trusted him just feel genuine and real since as scum he could use that as a reason to paint you as scum. His talk with Lam about Shinichi in #603 would be another example. he isn't solely focused on one target or a few bad plays to find scum he is actively searching and thinking about different things happening in the game. ^^^^^ Also what does others usually having a problem with your tone have to do with me liking it this game? Fair point on Lucy/Ruu. Jack just doesn't like inactivity in general. That point on Grape is what I call being careful with your words. It's a good push if Jack's scum. I can understand the point on Ruu. It's because he's so careful with what he replies to me that makes me doubt him in the first place. Jack is good with words. What you saw genuine was what I read as "ok, not gonna push her now, maybe a bit later." Btw, your answer is more behaviour than tone :P Why do you think this makes him town? The way he digs into Graepfruit about his early reads voicing his displeasure while not painting Grapefruit in an overly negative light. Ok I really like this post, the way you are trying to work me out and seeing my actions seems balanced and something I see as more town. added with your posts today and our discussions. I feel good here. You are actually been active and it looks less fake I still need you to commit more still though multi votes is not a bad thing. Unvote: aa-dono |
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| It has been a full day now and alot of people are still not voting or even posting, Ruu Quco and Rosie for example may as well not even be playing at this point. Also lamb is never on for weekends so won't see him for a while either. I can't read people who are not there, all this inactivity just creates a good scum environment since they are so many possible mislynches. |
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logic340 said: Hey now I have been trying to be better about it lately. And when I do it am not that self aware it's generally me saying I'm town because I know I am so why can't you all see it type of thing. Penta explained it perfectly in the dead chat of Kitty mafia. Which is why I find it weird when he scum reads me now since he seems to have such a good understanding of my mindset. I never read the kitty mafia dead chat so i kinda curious of what he said about it lol. The way i see it is its never scummy unless its over used or over exaggerated. |
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| @Coelestin i hate you lol why cant u reply in small chunks instead of 1 giant message tahts im possible to properly quote/respond to. |
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| I will respond to Penta's grape case and logic read list in a bit busy at the moment. so can only do small stuff. |
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| @Coelestin If you would've actually read the whole post and just wouldn't have the part where I actually explained why I went after Luce instead of Ruu away for your own convenience, then you'd have noticed that I already said that I did not not go after Ruu because she wasn't online but because I had more confidence in my Luce read. My goodness. I dont recall seeing more confidence in a luce vote over ruu so a link would be very nice, cause from what i saw was alot of focus on ruu. And you are telling me you're only seeing it now that you're actually scum reading me. Alright. Oh and I'm not talking about that pedestal. I'm talking about the "Coel is capable of everything" pedestal. Cause apparently you've gone so paranoid of the thought of me being scum that you cannot even properly try to see me as town. Which was exactly the same thing you did in Shounen Crossover where you even voted for me after I was on the lynch on scum together with other townies. And about grrr. I've changed my mind. Read what I posted about him in the reads list. However, I will not deny that "grrr is townie" truly was my first reaction and a legit one at that. Because I'm trying to see things from different perspectives and the perspective of grrr being town was just the most probable one for me at that point. Mind you I did town read through day 1 until the final 2 hours so idk what ur talkigng about with that 1st line. It just never caught my attention either cause i missed or it didnt give me any warning signs at the time. Sorry that i have to reread stuff every once n a while lol. Also i'm always paranoid of players with good charisma and voice why because ive lost as town to town being led by a high charismic scum aligned player so sue me for not trusting people so easily. Your guilty till proven innocent kind of thing. Also i don't care much for past games or my past actions in them. Grrr most likely is town, and where was this read list i prob missed it then. Everything i looked at that he has posted atleat 90% is attributed to his town mind set. Luce. You. On grrr at least. Sucks that luce had to die for that read :( Surprisingly, people are more willing to talk when they are voted on, y'know. Again ur trying to assume the norm of mafia on a player that def doesnt follow the norm of mafia, also that hes normally quite busy on the weeked. Do u actually find lamb scummy tho? Or is this just to get him to talk And this is the biggest bs I've ever heard. It's not strange at all that people would get the idea of you being scum. Sadly exactly this what you just said is something I myself as town have thought many times before which is why I've got to say you get town cred on this one, even if it sounds strange. Get off your high horse Shin. You are way too arrogant now. First time ive ever been called arrogant before lol, ill relax tho for the sake of this game and town. |
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logic340 said: Coelestin said: 1. I never told her to move off her vote from Lucina. I only questioned why she didn't do it. There's a difference. 2. I even said that I'd like more pressure on Karote. I will admit though that I forgot to question him further if that's what you want to accuse me of. 1. Fair enough, I misrepresented you. I took your question to mean you rented it in a better place but you could of just wanted what you felt was a legitimate reason. I still feel it's a bit of a double standard though as no one hounded Karote during the 14 pages his vote day in Ruu yet Ruu gets questioned multiple times in 5 pages? 2. Kind of answered this above. 5 pages on Lucian brought suspicion Ruu's way. 14 pages on Ruu draws no suspicion or questions? See everyone can mis read stuff you dumbo >3> its not just me lol |
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Vote Count 2.4 Grapefruit21: Grrr, Pentaflare Karote: Qoco, Coelestin Jackrito: Karote grrr: Grapefruit21 logic340: aa-dono Those not voting Logic340, Shinichi-Kun, Ruu, Lam-B, Oyasumi_Rosie, Jackrito What has already transpired Phase Day one! || Vote count 1.1 || 1.2 || 1.3 || 1.4 || 1.5 || 1.6 || 1.7 || 1.8 || 1.9 || 1.10 || 1.11 || 1.12 || 1.13 || 1.14 || 1.15 Night one Day 2 || Vote Count 2.0 || 2.1 || 2.2 || 2.3 || 2.4 |
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| @Shinichi-kun I am not posting anything because I don't have anything to say. And at this point, it feels like everything I say is just fluffy to everyone. So no point really. |
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logic340 said: Qoco - still suspicious of him though I have taken a step back due to personal bias. He isn't scum hunting, he isn't dropping any reads, he isn't dong much to help progress the game imo. Karote - would probably be scum reading him pretty hard if this wasn't how he always plays D1. That being said he isn't getting a town read and isn't getting let off the hook either. Not liking that vote on Jack when Jack questioned him about who is a good lynch today since Karote was complaining about the previous one, but we'll see how things progress Lam-B - info dump and go is what I call his style. I find him very hard to read. Wish I would have gotten some kind of interactions from him but our time zones keep that from happening. I feel like this is so remenicent of his scum game more than the town game I saw but there is nothing from this game that I can really say is scum Lam 100% certain. Oyasumi_Rosie - I love her fluff but enough is enough. I need to hear her thoughts on the game. Don't want to lynch her for being carefree townie but she needs to contribute and prove she is townie. Ruu - She has some things to clear up. Still not sold on scum!Ruu yet but she is making it increasingly harder to defend against the scum reads being leveled against her. If you guys want to lynch her far be it from me to stop you at this point. grrr - From my experience he has only ever claimed like this as town. Lam-b's claim and Penta's talk about Ascetic makes me think this may be a legitimate claim on top of what I know of grrr. Grapefruit21 - He is a mechanical player so wanting to lynch Ruu for her claim and when she claimed seems to fit his style. I do wish he would think about why town might claim in that situation if they didn't claim right out the gate. I can see his argument but I don't agree with it. I need to look into Penta's case and see what I find as I also felt he lacked presence D1 as well? I haven't called him transparent which is what I usually points to town Grapefruit...time to read. Coelestin - I don't think she asks me to jump on the Lucian train like that as scum. Maybe I am wrong but with how hard I scum read her in our last game (shit was emotional) I don't think scum Coelestin comes at me in this manner. Also that apology for the lynch seems very genuine and attention grabbing in a way that mafia would want to avoid imo Shinichi - I am just not getting that vibe that I have been getting the last few games. That very motivated to win as town vibe. I really need to look harder into him but even though I don't feel that motivation I can't make a good case for scumnichi either. aa-dono - definitely looks to be scum hunting. D1 was a mix for her but the one think is the vote staying on Lucian. That cannot be attributed solely to scum so it's NAI. I am really liking her D2 so far but I need to see more as I feel biased because the majority of it revolves around soring me. Penta - I never know how to feel about Penta. I usually give him a really hard but I feel like I need to step back and slow down. His position on the train makes me wonder but it's not a solid tell. I'm kind of torn on this grapefruit case because it could be seen as scum trying to justify a vote but I don't see Penta making that move as scum? Jackrito - I stated it recently but I am feeling pretty comfortable here. I can follow his though process well. His vote on Lucian was well explained throughout D1 before the move. He's been consistent in my opinion and I can't say he seems fairly unaligned. #982 and #1169 seem particularly townie. in #1169 ce isn't closing off Ruu as an option and is suggesting we continue the search (something I like to do). A lot of these reads come off as neu or town, I would assume this is because most of your neu reads reads are barely active enough to get a better read on. Out of intrest why do I get links but no one else. My other question is who would you lynch today atm since those reads lack any real vote potential just a lot of maybe and ifs. Also you have most exp with Rosie have they rolled scum before just wondering to see if they have exp there. I also have a question on town hunting Shinichi as you put it you say it lacks the vibe can you expand on this and how it is different, I'm used to him playing like this if scum or town so wondering what side you have seen. Also what would you expect scum Penta to do since you say this play off him you would not see him do as scum. |
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