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There is no "correct" way to write or depict a female character.

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Dec 1, 2017 11:07 PM

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I totally agree with this. It's annoying when people use a characters personality as a general critique of the entire work. If a girl is sexualized and stupid people get annoyed by her, If she's not sexualized and she's useful and intelligent and strong, people say she's a Mary Sue. I don't think there's a "wrong" or "correct" way to portray a character, because in real life all humans are different and people exist with all sorts of crazy opinions, styles, preferences, skill, and talents.

Art is always misunderstood as something that exists just to cater to some pre-existing desire from the audience, and sometimes it does. but it doesn't always have to be like this.

A story is a story and it's a piece of art no matter how much everyone hates it, and no matter what type of stupid personality it's characters have.

personally I'm a fan of Mary Sue female characters, I enjoy that power fantasy. and I don't hate weak or stupid female characters because they exist to fulfill a purpose in the story, and also appeal to someone who likes characters like that.


Edit: On a side note, I also don't see a problem with "asspulls" "luck" "deus ex machinas" "plot armor" or any other piece of work that features events that are stupidly unlikely to happen or just plain luck. Part of making movies is being able to craft a story that isn't likely to happen in real life, which means you can make a show like Sakamoto desu ga where a guy just unintentionally does everything perfectly with no real conflict in his life, sometimes it's interesting to see what it would be like if things didn't have a logical conclusion and they just work seamlessly

Edit2: That being said I hate whiny stupid Male MCs in Harem anime, they annoy me immensely. but i don't think it's "wrong". just they don't appeal to me personally.
The_Fat_PunisherDec 1, 2017 11:15 PM
I don't care.
Dec 2, 2017 7:27 AM
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Oct 2017
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FontSize72LOL said:
Saint_Nepunepu said:

What makes this different from any other fantasy, like a war fantasy, a detective fantasy or a magical girl fantasy?


Not much, I'm trying to grasp where you're going with this though. The point of my original comment is that a lot of female characters are written in anime for males, not for women's sake. I'm not trying to argue that this is a good or bad thing. It is the same for a lot of male characters in shows targeted towards females like "Free!" for example, or any Shoujo.

Thats just the way the industry is. They're not trying to be accurate depictions of women, but to sell a fantasy, Just like a lot of men in certain shows aren't an accurate or realistic depiction of men. There are shows that sell the same kind of fantasy to women as well.


But it's the same issue with video games--plenty of women actively watch the same kind of anime that men do. So the idea of the anime industry being a "boys club" doesn't really work. Sure, there are women who would watch stuff like Free which is absolutely the equivalent of fanservice for men...BUT, I think there are plenty of others who do enjoy the action anime and I don't think there's anything wrong with the industry being more inclusive.

Better than trotting out the same lazy tropes over and over again.
Dec 2, 2017 8:33 AM

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Mar 2016
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“Many of my movies have strong female leads- brave, self-sufficient girls that don't think twice about fighting for what they believe with all their heart. They'll need a friend, or a supporter, but never a savior. Any woman is just as capable of being a hero as any man.”

― Hayao Miyazaki

Enough Said, there's a good way of writing women.
Dec 2, 2017 8:43 AM

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youseiki said:
“Many of my movies have strong female leads- brave, self-sufficient girls that don't think twice about fighting for what they believe with all their heart. They'll need a friend, or a supporter, but never a savior. Any woman is just as capable of being a hero as any man.”

― Hayao Miyazaki

Enough Said, there's a good way of writing women.

This has nothing to do with good writing, this is just feminist politics. There is no reason why all female characters must be brave and independent women who never need no man, and not even Miyazaki followed his own advice. His male characters also had to be saved by others, and the same thing can be seen in many other anime.
Dec 2, 2017 9:03 AM

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Saint_Nepunepu said:
youseiki said:
“Many of my movies have strong female leads- brave, self-sufficient girls that don't think twice about fighting for what they believe with all their heart. They'll need a friend, or a supporter, but never a savior. Any woman is just as capable of being a hero as any man.”

― Hayao Miyazaki

Enough Said, there's a good way of writing women.

This has nothing to do with good writing, this is just feminist politics. There is no reason why all female characters must be brave and independent women who never need no man, and not even Miyazaki followed his own advice. His male characters also had to be saved by others, and the same thing can be seen in many other anime.

You're correct and I didn't even say that his was correct, but it depends on the perception on the writer which is good or not, I would say that Hayao's perception to Women are romanticize.

But there's a correct way of writing women, and one of them is not turning them into plot devices or trophy girls for wish fulfillment, if you've been paying attention to this thread, I've mentioned the comparison Chinese Novels and Japanese Hentai, which I've said that both entertainment forms are bad writing of women.
Dec 2, 2017 1:17 PM

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Jun 2016
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Thread cleaned, please remember to stay civil and stay on-topic.
NexuDec 2, 2017 1:54 PM
Dec 2, 2017 5:09 PM

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Characters in general regardless of gender should not only fall under one archetype or only have one trait. Female characters just like male characters should have different depictions from character to character. A character only have one trait though isn't really good writing whether it be a female character that is just physically strong or just a weak damsel in distress and nothing else.

topazio said:
Just look at movies like Wonder Woman and you will get what I mean. The fastest way to ruin a female character is creating her with tropes like "strong woman" in mind. And that is only an example, that a lot of people obviously don't get because if there's a woman kicking ass and doing weird faces while dominating people in a movie they automatically think of it as "empowering".
Wonder Woman in the Wonder Woman movie wasn't only physically strong but also showcased other traits like being compassionate about the outside world being ravaged by war (World War 1), ignorant of western society, willing to defy authority to help those in need, having a simplistic idea of war (humans fight war only because of Ares and not because of their own will), generally being friendly and loyal even to people she has just met and also showing sadness at the death of a friend.
DrGeroCreationDec 2, 2017 5:20 PM
Dec 3, 2017 10:22 AM

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Bad male characters are bad characters.

Bad female characters are sexist depictions of all women and a direct product of misogyny.
Dec 3, 2017 1:39 PM

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topazio said:
DrGeroCreation said:
Wonder Woman in the Wonder Woman movie wasn't only physically strong but also showcased other traits like being compassionate about the outside world being ravaged by war (World War 1), ignorant of western society, willing to defy authority to help those in need, having a simplistic idea of war (humans fight war only because of Ares and not because of their own will), generally being friendly and loyal even to people she has just met and also showing sadness at the death of a friend.


Her being ignorant of western society was shown by her behaving and being led around by Steve like a naive child. Outcast of society or not, she was still a princess and a representative of state in a whole new society, and her acting totally didn't suit what had been built off her until now. I'd rather believe they just did whatever they wanted with her character for kicks (like that cringy scene in the hot springs) than an actually care for character construction. Of course, this might be because of Gadot's awful acting, but still.

I can see the other points you mentioned, but honestly, the movie overall was so bad executed for me that the use of such traits didn't add anything to it. Especially the last part, since the friend was such an uncharismatic character and his death so pointless I couldn't care less about it.
If you are foreign to a new place and know nothing about the outside world since you were born on an isolated island of course you would act like that. She is a princess but was raised to be a warrior not an ambassador. It would be unrealistic and mary sueish for her to just be automatically knowledgeable about the outside world.
Her character was done well. He was the one who brought her to the outside world and his death cemented her ties to it by causing her to stay there to be a hero. If it wasn't for him she would have just stayed on Themyscira oblivious to the outside world so i would say he was an important character and his death did have an impact on her, being charismatic or not is irrelevant.
DrGeroCreationDec 3, 2017 1:43 PM
Dec 3, 2017 2:27 PM

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Jul 2017
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I agree there isn't really a way to write a character. That goes for both males and females.





Crying doesn't mean you're weak.
Enduring doesn't mean you're strong.
Dec 3, 2017 3:07 PM

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topazio said:


I still doubt someone like that would walk with her arms open wide to an unknown woman in the street crying "a baaaaaabyyyyyy", even though she had never seen one. I mean, would you do something like that? She was isolated from our society, but she wasn't completely devoid of sense. Yeah, it would be unrealistic for her to be automatically be knowledgeable of the outside world, but it was as unrealistic to see a princess and a warrior acting like a susceptible child and lose all restraint because of novelty.

And yeah, of course he had a good motif, but that doesn't make his character good, since I doubt the creators of the movie intended for him to be just a walking plot device. It's like Jyn on Rogue One. The fact that everything in the movie happened because of her still didn't prevent her from being a passive and boring character.


I most likely would if I had never seen a baby before in my entire life. In the comics the Amazons were created in adult forms by a group of Olympian goddesses so Diana wouldn't have seen any babies before so seeing one would obviously be a surprise to her. Diana herself was a baby created from clay but the Amazons don't have modern technology like cameras to take pictures. In light of that it makes perfect sense for her to have that reaction. The thing she isn't some no emotional,stone faced warrior who is super serious in every situation. If she is surprised or curious about something she will show it and not just stand and be super serious and expression less just because she is a warrior and a princess.

In Justice League War she was completely amazed just by tasting ice cream for the first time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAemkNPY7xQ

He wasn't a plot device considering his character isn't solely meant to move the plot forward, heck he even could have stalled it when they were in the trenches. He doesn't match the term at all.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotDevice
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_device

"A plot device is an object or character in the story whose purpose is purely to drive the Plot, maintain its flow, or resolve situations within it. It could be something everybody wants to obtain, a device that must be destroyed, or an annoying teenager who must be protected at all costs. "

Also being charismatic or not has nothing to do with being a good or bad character.
DrGeroCreationDec 3, 2017 3:58 PM
Dec 3, 2017 3:15 PM

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Apr 2017
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I agree with you, but that doesn't extend just to anime, I think it extends to any sort of media.
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Dec 6, 2017 11:52 AM

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Im pretty sad I missed this shitpost. AD is becoming CE nowadays.
"When you made this thread, I cried and screamed"


-Swagernator 2017
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