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Dec 30, 2016 2:02 PM

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Oct 2014
989
LucianRoy said:
@Sonata, if you don't like lynching D1, why are you on a train?


That I don't like it doesn't mean that I don't understand the benefits it has for the game. I don't like it as a person, but as a player, I know it is good for the town's interest.
Dec 30, 2016 2:03 PM

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11321
Phraze said:
LucianRoy said:
@Phraze, give me a run-down of your TR on logic.
- selfclaimed changing meta for scumgame
- doesn't hold it against others if they scumread him, more like he expected it
- finds a train on him to be good. which is pretty town of him since he was always pocketed in previous games
- is trying to analyze the ppl who trained on him. "u go under my train, u go under my knife" kinda thing.

overall he seems pretty town. scum!Logic would be too nervous to do what he's been doing all the while, esp if he's never rolled scum yet.

Ok, this is a breath of fresh air. How did you feel about Gruffin's push?
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one."
Dec 30, 2016 2:04 PM

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Sonata said:
LucianRoy said:
@Sonata, if you don't like lynching D1, why are you on a train?


That I don't like it doesn't mean that I don't understand the benefits it has for the game. I don't like it as a person, but as a player, I know it is good for the town's interest.

OOOooooohhhhhh
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one."
Dec 30, 2016 2:05 PM

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Gruffin said:
Sonata’s posts (103 and 133) come off as apathetic, which isn’t making me feel good about them. Town should worry more about the outcome of the lynch.

Is this why you're voting them?
Does it still sound like apathy in regards to the outcome?
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one."
Dec 30, 2016 2:05 PM
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564134
Sonata said:
LucianRoy said:
@Sonata, if you don't like lynching D1, why are you on a train?


That I don't like it doesn't mean that I don't understand the benefits it has for the game. I don't like it as a person, but as a player, I know it is good for the town's interest.
This is weird...
Also, if you are scumreading rosielovesanime, why aren't you voting for her?
Dec 30, 2016 2:10 PM

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So 0x40 is the leading wagon atm.
@gruffin @lucianroy @grapefruit21 @pentaflare @mishukax
how do you guys feel about it?
Dec 30, 2016 2:11 PM

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LucianRoy said:
What did it show?
I may have phrased that weirdly. I mean “I was hoping that he would show if he is town who has changed playstyles.”
Sonata had a reason to vote you with their vote. You don't. Why?
I have reasons. Do you think their reasons are good?
Sonata said:
@Gruffin I suppose that if I ask you to tell me something about what your role that you won't comply will ya?
Nope.

I was pretty sure that's what you were getting at in 250.
Dec 30, 2016 2:20 PM

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Oct 2011
20809
@Sonata
Indeed I'm not new to this game (though I'm not as experienced as most members who started around the same time I did cause I don't play as often), but I don't know, it's just the way I am.
we have some new ppl here who aren't being sentimental??
@Phraze I am always light about scumhunting in day 1, what's the point of going full on with just conjectures about someone else's behaviour anyway. It's paranoid-like.
anything to keep the ball rolling. how else would we get leads? least u can do is pin someone as town or scum to bring u a step further come D2. I don't see any of that

Dec 30, 2016 2:21 PM

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Just letting you know I'm still here, had a good deal to read and I have ~2 pages left.
Dec 30, 2016 2:28 PM

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Soren said:
So 0x40 is the leading wagon atm.
@gruffin @lucianroy @grapefruit21 @pentaflare @mishukax
how do you guys feel about it?
Hmm. 0x40 has gone under my radar so far. Give me a moment to look closer at their posts and the current case against them and I’ll get back to you on that.
Dec 30, 2016 2:31 PM

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@LucianRoy
Ok, this is a breath of fresh air. How did you feel about Gruffin's push?
Gruffin has been lowkey so I didn't have a strong impression of her. but that push seems to be for the same thing she was doing, changing playstyle. feels suspect but too early to say.
noted that Gruffin also said she's changing playstyle

Dec 30, 2016 2:34 PM

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Mishukax said:
Just letting you know I'm still here, had a good deal to read and I have ~2 pages left.
slowww

also gonna take a break from game for my headache
//off to other things

Dec 30, 2016 2:35 PM

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Just got back home.

I'll be catching up now, but if people had (I recall that at least logic had) some questions for me, now's a good time to ask them.
Count to 30 -victories:

Up to 30: 19 wins | Up to 60: 2 wins | Up to 90: 3 win | Up to 120: 1 win | Up to 150: 1 win | Up to 180:
0 wins | Up to 210: 1 win
Dec 30, 2016 2:47 PM

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I'm super slow but hopefully my 1500-word essay on why you're scum makes up for the wait.
Dec 30, 2016 2:49 PM

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Gruffin said:
Soren said:
So 0x40 is the leading wagon atm.
@gruffin @lucianroy @grapefruit21 @pentaflare @mishukax
how do you guys feel about it?
Hmm. 0x40 has gone under my radar so far. Give me a moment to look closer at their posts and the current case against them and I’ll get back to you on that.
hope to see it
Dec 30, 2016 2:49 PM

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Soren said:
So 0x40 is the leading wagon atm.
@gruffin @lucianroy @grapefruit21 @pentaflare @mishukax
how do you guys feel about it?
and @phraze
Dec 30, 2016 3:03 PM

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Hmmm on x40 I still have a slight town read. I really felt like he was trying to help the town at first. But I definitely see why the later posts are drawing attention. They don't out weigh my initial read yet, but unless x40 steps up and does some real work I'll get on board with the wagon.

@Lucian thanks for explaining it a bit to me. And I'm now seeing that a bit more. Still a few too many +1 this guys is on to something type posts. But then again Soren had some good posts.
Dec 30, 2016 3:05 PM

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Grapefruit21 said:
Hmmm on x40 I still have a slight town read. I really felt like he was trying to help the town at first. But I definitely see why the later posts are drawing attention. They don't out weigh my initial read yet, but unless x40 steps up and does some real work I'll get on board with the wagon.

@Lucian thanks for explaining it a bit to me. And I'm now seeing that a bit more. Still a few too many +1 this guys is on to something type posts. But then again Soren had some good posts.
Hmm I can see why you'd think that. But neither has he had another instance in this game where he pointed something out with the intention of helping town out.
Dec 30, 2016 3:16 PM

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Unvote.

Still waiting before I vote again. Just wanted to do that before I forget.

Dec 30, 2016 3:22 PM

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🌟 Vote Count 1.7 🌟


_0x40_ (3): Kit, Soren, logic340
Gruffin (2): Lord_Sithis, Sonata
Sonata (2): Gruffin, Phraze
logic340 (1): Mishukax
LucianRoy (1): aa-dono
Mishukax (1): _0x40_
Lord_Sithis (1): PentaFlare

Not Voting (4): Bursama, LucianRoy, Grapefruit21, rosielovesanime

With 15 alive, it’s 8 players to majority lynch.
If a majority lynch is not achieved by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched instead.


>>Day 1 Timer<<
Dec 30, 2016 3:28 PM
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Had a long day at work so it's a bit late here where I live, but I'll try to compile a list of reads on everyone that has posted so far, and answer all the questions and stuff before heading to bed.

logic340 said:

_0x40_ - Neutral The whole Mafioso thing doesn't sit well with me. I don't know mafia terms being a newer player and have seen others use Mafioso without raising an alarm. I don't know why it does in this case so I will be watching this player.

Mafioso is a loosely defined term that I've seen used to mean either "any member of the mafia" or "a regular mafia goon without any special abilities." In case he used it to mean the latter, then it's a potential slip because there could be other mafia roles.

Kit said:

Votes Mishu for coming in without a vote, which might as well be a second RVS vote from 40. He might as well have left the vote on logic for also not voting. Then says breaking an RVS chain pushes the scum agenda. While it's true coming in and fluff posting isn't particularly townie, how does breaking RVS contribute to scum agenda?

Wow. I'm not sure how you managed to interpret "breaking vote streaks = scum agenda" as something serious.
Do people usually take early rvs super seriously on here?
Kit said:

@_0x40_ Do you still think Mishu is scum? Your vote is still on him. Do you have any other scum reads?

That's my rvs vote. I don't think Mishu stands out as particularly scummy.

Kit said:

The whole "meaningless comment" /mudslinging debate. Which makes almost half his comments that he posted here. From my POV he seems to completely miss the point soren and bursama are trying to make. 0x40 made a comment that implied he did not like a post grapefruit made, which implies that he wants other to think grapefruit is scum, no matter what 0x40 tries to explain away later, it's still something he did.

Funny how you say "half my comments are about x topic" to make it sound like I've spent a lot of time on said topic, when I barely have any comments to begin with. Half of a small amount does not magically make a big amount.
Kit said:

The second and third post in this spoiler are basically him saying "my own post about his comment being meaningless is meaningless" because it didn't tell him anything about grapefruit's alignment. Then why post it? Does it help with the game at all? Might as well be fluff.

I figured it could help spark discussion. We were in rvs at that point.
Kit said:

The 4th and 5th post sound like he's being purposely obtuse. Doesn't understand what bursama is criticizing him about and over explains himself again.

This post also sounded obtuse. You're so confused you had to ask three times? And you never followed up on this question. So what do you think of Logic's read on Gruffin here that you responded to?

I think it's useless.
Kit said:

I have no idea what 40 is talking about here, because as far as I know, "mafioso" means "member of the mafia team," but if it means something else please enlighten me. Since we are playing mafia, of course there are mafioso

I explained this previously in this post. I've seen "mafioso" be used as a synonym to "mafia goon." Pretty sure that use of the term comes from Town of Salem.

Kit said:

There has not been much pressure on 0x40 in general, which I find strange because he was moderately active for a fairly long amount of time, but made no posts of substance

Well, I'm sorry (not really) for not meeting your expectations of having solid reads during early rvs, I guess?

logic340 said:
Now that "trying too hard" has been explained how do you feel about Gruffin's case against me? Also do you think that my use of the phrase "trying too hard" is the correct usage in this instance now that it has been explained?

I think it's a bad attempt at shrugging off what to me seems like some fairly reasonable arguments.

(more to come as I read the rest of the thread)
Dec 30, 2016 3:39 PM
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I like how people are ignoring my questions. @Mishukax @LucianRoy @Sonata

Lord_Sithis said:
About @Mishukax, can you tell us the reasons for your Logic vote already? I feel like some people still haven't explained their votes properly.
And @LucianRoy, I noticed something weird. Maybe it's one of your jokes. You said in #221 that this is your first game, but you have said that you have played multiple times before.
@Sonata, you're voting Gruffin. But you said you're scumreading rosielovesanime. Why isn't your vote on her instead?
Dec 30, 2016 3:42 PM

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Lord_Sithis said:
I like how people are ignoring my questions. @Mishukax @LucianRoy @Sonata

Calm down, you're being scummy.
Dec 30, 2016 3:49 PM

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Oooh was gonna catch up in the thread but I'll respond to this first~

_0x40_ said:
Kit said:

Votes Mishu for coming in without a vote, which might as well be a second RVS vote from 40. He might as well have left the vote on logic for also not voting. Then says breaking an RVS chain pushes the scum agenda. While it's true coming in and fluff posting isn't particularly townie, how does breaking RVS contribute to scum agenda?

Wow. I'm not sure how you managed to interpret "breaking vote streaks = scum agenda" as something serious.
Do people usually take early rvs super seriously on here?
"It was just a joke guys, I wasn't SERIOUS! :)"
Yes I take into account everything in the thread to make my reads.

Kit said:

@_0x40_ Do you still think Mishu is scum? Your vote is still on him. Do you have any other scum reads?

That's my rvs vote. I don't think Mishu stands out as particularly scummy.
So do you usually have multiple RVS votes? You even had a "reason" to vote Mishu, so it didn't seem "random"

Kit said:

The whole "meaningless comment" /mudslinging debate. Which makes almost half his comments that he posted here. From my POV he seems to completely miss the point soren and bursama are trying to make. 0x40 made a comment that implied he did not like a post grapefruit made, which implies that he wants other to think grapefruit is scum, no matter what 0x40 tries to explain away later, it's still something he did.

Funny how you say "half my comments are about x topic" to make it sound like I've spent a lot of time on said topic, when I barely have any comments to begin with. Half of a small amount does not magically make a big amount.
As if having barely any comments helps your case, especially when the other comments didn't contribute anything

Kit said:

The second and third post in this spoiler are basically him saying "my own post about his comment being meaningless is meaningless" because it didn't tell him anything about grapefruit's alignment. Then why post it? Does it help with the game at all? Might as well be fluff.

I figured it could help spark discussion. We were in rvs at that point.
Good job, we're talking about your post now

Kit said:

There has not been much pressure on 0x40 in general, which I find strange because he was moderately active for a fairly long amount of time, but made no posts of substance

Well, I'm sorry (not really) for not meeting your expectations of having solid reads during early rvs, I guess?
How long do you think RVS is? You were definitely making posts when we were already out of RVS and there was plenty of discussion going around.

Not only did you not have "solid" reads (which I don't expect from anyone on day one) you did not have any reads at all, unless you now want to count your supposed RVS Mishu vote as a read










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Dec 30, 2016 3:54 PM

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logic340 said:
Is getting the game going a scum tactic I don't know of?

Yes, apparently.
logic340 said:
I don't see breaking the random voting as scum agenda because that helps us get out of the RVS. Also personally if I was scum I wouldn't be pushing an agenda as soon as the game start. I don't know if what I plan to do is any better than what you have done but we shall see. Hopefully our combined efforts can bear fruit.

I said "Good day, peeps." That didn't help us get out of RVS at all. If anything, my vote had more impact.
logic340 said:
Why so serious?

To bring serious attention.
logic340 said:
8. Mishukax – This player seems to be pretty experienced around here. I have only played one game with them and the replaced in. They helped carry the scum team to victory

People, I am not experienced by any means, and I probably don't know what the hell I'm doing. I'm exploring the game through attempts instead of hypotheses.
Gruffin said:
Vote: Logic

This vote is the fourth on logic, breaking the tie between him and grapefruit. Don't know what to think of this, especially because I don't have a solid idea regarding grapefruit's alignment, but would Gruffin vote like this if grapefruit is mafia with him? In the post where he put his vote, Gruffin gave very brief thoughts about some players, and spent more time on grapefruit/logic, the two leading lynch candidates at that point. This might be because he's trying to save someone, here. I could see a Gruffin/Grapefruit team. If Grapefruit is not scum though, I don't know, I feel like scum Gruffin would vote someone other than logic and him... to stay away from the trains.
edit: their argumentation on page 3 distances them, so I'm not so sure that they're in a team anymore.
edit: well #155 came and I'm not liking the way their argumentation was put to an end. Grape is all "we're cool, man" and Gruffin doesn't say anything more about it.
edit: now #184 happened and puts some more distance. Darn.
Gruffin said:
What information does this question help you gain?

What about yours? Questions aren't always meant for information, they can serve to understand each other better.
Sonata said:
I just don't like random lynching day 1, never liked it eventhough in my last game I realised how important it actually is to do so in a forum mafia setting. So I vote for whoever, and then let it go, it's just the way I play day 1 every time.

Classic Sonata, no problems here.
logic340 said:
My contributions will be different than you are used to. I didn't roll scum but I still feel like I need to change things. I might even be a passive logic.

The whole "Guys, I will play differently this game, don't worry about my playstyle" thing kind of looks like a cushion for when people point out faults in your play. This might mean you're scum trying to find a comfort zone. However, I wish I knew more about you, but your play doesn't strike me as particularly different from other games. Scum would purposely change their play by a lot to respect the vow to play differently, so I get good vibes from you atm. Can you tell me something you changed or are trying to change?
Don't like how nonchalent you were about my vote on you though.
Gruffin said:
You keep saying stuff like "I'm town" and "I'm not scum" like you really want people to believe you.

I've noticed that logic does that a lot, at least as townie in previous games. He keeps inserting the idea that he's town here and there in his posts, not because he wants us to start thinking so, but because he truly believes and knows he's town and takes that fact into account when making his reads. So him saying things like that are neutral, if anything.
Bursama said:
unless Lucian is some mafia god with tendency to do really ballsy moves, I doubt he (and by that extension Kit) is mafia.

The annoying thing is that I feel like Lucian is exactly that kind of mafia player.
Bursama said:
@_0x40_ Mudslinging means that you try to paint someone scummy by pointing out negative things about others and at the same time (usually) not trying to figure out or push that person for those things.

Like "Look at that post X, it's so scummy" and then do nothing about it.

That's not necessarily scum behavior. If anything Grape's focus on Lucian is weirder to me. But I like that he put balance in his Lucian analysis.
PentaFlare said:
I'm going to take a different approach this game.

Oh dear, this game will be hard to solve. What with Gruffin and logic apparently doing that too.
PentaFlare said:
You are currently leading in votes. You've acknowledged this and said you are happy to have this opportunity because it hasn't happened before but you haven't done anything about it. You can't just wait for votes to go away. If you are town, show everyone you are town. Convince people that the target you are voting for merits their votes because your target is scum. Get people to move their votes.

If you are town, then you are letting players leave their votes pressuring you when they could be extracting information from scum with those votes.

Mmh, good thinking.
logic has been expressing how he likes the votes on him, and how he's not worried about them. Could that be him as scum, trying to make us think that the votes on him aren't particularly thought-out enough and that such votes shouldn't get him lynched? (ex. Phraze and Sonata's votes on him are RVS, I think). Also, would scum logic be more aggressive when having so many votes? I feel like town logic, a very committed player full of care, would be more worried about the direction that town is taking, and would express his disagreement with the votes more clearly. Or does the fact that half of the votes on him are RVS not make him worried anyway?
Gruffin said:
In my last two town games, I posted whenever, whatever, and didn’t think everything through as much as I would have liked. So now I’ve (hopefully) changed for the better to bring higher quality posts to the game at the expense of a little townie genuity. Yes, I’m carefully planning everything out like in my first game, but does it come from a scummy mindset or a townie mindset?

Townie genuinity is more important than high quality/elaborate posts. So you're aware and you acknowledge that you've been posting with more care?
LucianRoy said:
Mishukax said:
The reasons to vote for logic will come later, when we'll have them.

Wait a second, what the actual fuck is this?

1. Did you just notice this post of mine?
2. If not, why do you suddenly bring it up?
logic340 said:
I'm currently leading the lynch 1st time ever (I'd say it's working slightly).

What's working? I'm confused, sorry.
Kit said:
I have no idea what 40 is talking about here, because as far as I know, "mafioso" means "member of the mafia team," but if it means something else please enlighten me. Since we are playing mafia, of course there are mafioso.

I used to employ the term Mafioso all the time so I never saw anything wrong with it either.
logic340 said:
So do you think that Grapefruit is scum using the same tactic Mishu did or just a coincidence?

Why ask this? aa-dono's opinion on the matter was obvious. Are you trying to confirm to everyone Grape's possible scumminess?
logic340 said:
Leading the vote does have it's advantages disadvantages too but I can really see things differently than if I had no heat at all. Just the way people approach me right now feel different than anything I have faced so far in my mafia career. I hope I get good information and experience from this

You sure want to drill it into our heads that you have a positive opinion of the train on you.
Sonata said:
and I'm not fully trusting Mishukax (he's got a good mafia game, and this game while not suspicious he's behaving like he has in most games I've seen him as mafia).

I've only played 1.5 scum games in the last... couple of years maybe? I don't have a lot of recent experience. Unless you're basing this off the super-early games that we played together in SoLC or when MS was starting out, mostly games that I can't remember much about. And I don't recall ever pushing on a player early-game like a madman, like I did this game. Just felt like pointing out why your read on me feels like it came from a scum recycling bucket, but I understand how you feel about D1s, so I can see why you're not bothering with elaborate and overly lengthy analyses. You have a good reason for voting Gruffin anyway, and that's what matters most.
Lord_Sithis said:
About @Mishukax, can you tell us the reasons for your Logic vote already?

Eh, I could say something like "I wanted to create discussion" or "I wanted to see how logic or the others would react to this" but there wasn't any deep reason for my vote. It was just to give me a starting ground, I guess. Sorry for the disappointment, but I don't have a master plan MkII. I did think his thread entrance was weird, that's for sure. What do you think about the way logic handled my vote on him?
Lord_Sithis said:
This is weird...
Also, if you are scumreading rosielovesanime, why aren't you voting for her?

It's not exactly weird, Sonata has expressed this feeling earlier in the game. Also, you can have multiple scumreads but you can't vote for two people, man.
Soren said:
So 0x40 is the leading wagon atm.
@gruffin @lucianroy @grapefruit21 @pentaflare @mishukax
how do you guys feel about it?

I don't scum-read 0x40 so I'm not feeling that lynch.


Other points:
- logic had the most votes, but the fact that the conversation never shifted to something like "guys what about the inactives" during that timeframe says that no one was really trying to 'save' logic.
- logic said pre-game (after receiving his role) that he would get us past RVS as soon as possible, but he didn't actually do it. Scum would have followed the plan he set himself, so I get town vibes here. The reason he gave for being absent kind of screws that up, though...
- Phraze is actually giving reasons for her vote, and I don't like that. The reasons are pretty simple, and Phraze is usually more cryptic (?) as town.
- I am not letting Lord_Sithis get mislynched this game.

edit: fixed 2 post links
Dec 30, 2016 3:58 PM

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@Bursama i answered #164 and #262 was there going to be a response to them? Did answering those questions tell you something about me or my alignment?
Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC


Dec 30, 2016 4:01 PM
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Mishukax said:
Lord_Sithis said:
About @Mishukax, can you tell us the reasons for your Logic vote already?

Eh, I could say something like "I wanted to create discussion" or "I wanted to see how logic or the others would react to this" but there wasn't any deep reason for my vote. It was just to give me a starting ground, I guess. Sorry for the disappointment, but I don't have a master plan MkII. I did think his thread entrance was weird, that's for sure. What do you think about the way logic handled my vote on him?
Lord_Sithis said:
This is weird...
Also, if you are scumreading rosielovesanime, why aren't you voting for her?

It's not exactly weird, Sonata has expressed this feeling earlier in the game. Also, you can have multiple scumreads but you can't vote for two people, man.
I see. But you could've pointed it out instead of implying this deep master plan over and over.
Well, Logic has said he thinks you lean town, so he isn't going to bash you for voting for him.

Yeah, but Sonata gave his read on rosielovesanime, didn't vote for her, and later said he isn't going to change his vote... If he's so sure about rosielovesanime, why won't you change your vote?
Dec 30, 2016 4:06 PM

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Lord_Sithis said:
I see. But you could've pointed it out instead of implying this deep master plan over and over.
Well, Logic has said he thinks you lean town, so he isn't going to bash you for voting for him.

Yeah, but Sonata gave his read on rosielovesanime, didn't vote for her, and later said he isn't going to change his vote... If he's so sure about rosielovesanime, why won't you change your vote?

No, I couldn't have done that. It ruins the point. People saw my vote as something more than a RVS one, which is partly what I wanted, and this changed some things.
logic might be trying to gain my appreciation. So if he's scum it's somewhat natural that he isn't bashing me.

I don't want to speak for Sonata too much, buuuuut I believe their read on Gruffin is stronger than their read on rosie.
Dec 30, 2016 4:19 PM
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Kit said:
Oooh was gonna catch up in the thread but I'll respond to this first~

_0x40_ said:

Wow. I'm not sure how you managed to interpret "breaking vote streaks = scum agenda" as something serious.
Do people usually take early rvs super seriously on here?
"It was just a joke guys, I wasn't SERIOUS! :)"
Yes I take into account everything in the thread to make my reads.

And how on earth could a statement that's basically saying that someone is scummy because they arbitrarily broke an arbitrary streak be interpreted as anything but a joke? You're really grasping at straws here...
Kit said:



That's my rvs vote. I don't think Mishu stands out as particularly scummy.
So do you usually have multiple RVS votes? You even had a "reason" to vote Mishu, so it didn't seem "random"

I don't see the problem with changing votes during rvs. No, I did not have a "reason."
Kit said:


Funny how you say "half my comments are about x topic" to make it sound like I've spent a lot of time on said topic, when I barely have any comments to begin with. Half of a small amount does not magically make a big amount.
As if having barely any comments helps your case, especially when the other comments didn't contribute anything

Nice attempt at deflection. You made it seem like I had made a lot of posts on that topic, when I've barely made any. Now you're trying to shift the issue to "_0x40_ hasn't made as many posts as I want him to."
Kit said:


I figured it could help spark discussion. We were in rvs at that point.
Good job, we're talking about your post now


Well, I'm sorry (not really) for not meeting your expectations of having solid reads during early rvs, I guess?
How long do you think RVS is? You were definitely making posts when we were already out of RVS and there was plenty of discussion going around.

Where do you think rvs ended? I don't think I've made any posts past rvs until today.
Kit said:


Not only did you not have "solid" reads (which I don't expect from anyone on day one) you did not have any reads at all, unless you now want to count your supposed RVS Mishu vote as a read

I can see how getting reads out of as early as possible is important in games like this where days are really short, but I really didn't have much of a read on anyone that early.
Dec 30, 2016 4:20 PM

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Mishukax said:
Lord_Sithis said:
I see. But you could've pointed it out instead of implying this deep master plan over and over.
Well, Logic has said he thinks you lean town, so he isn't going to bash you for voting for him.

Yeah, but Sonata gave his read on rosielovesanime, didn't vote for her, and later said he isn't going to change his vote... If he's so sure about rosielovesanime, why won't you change your vote?

No, I couldn't have done that. It ruins the point. People saw my vote as something more than a RVS one, which is partly what I wanted, and this changed some things.
logic might be trying to gain my appreciation. So if he's scum it's somewhat natural that he isn't bashing me.

I don't want to speak for Sonata too much, buuuuut I believe their read on Gruffin is stronger than their read on rosie.
I'm not bashing you because I figured you had reasons and I just happened to be the person you picked. I like the idea and saw no reason to react in strong opposition to it. Others asked about it so I figured let's see what comes from this.

Edit: typos. I hate using mobile for this.
logic340Dec 30, 2016 4:35 PM
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Dec 30, 2016 4:34 PM

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@_0x40_

Think of it this way, if you/0x04 were scum, what would the scum team gain from these sorts of behaviors? The early RVS push and the grapefruit thing could easily be subtle ways to cast doubt on people you know are town. Even if you play it off as a joke, or wanting to spark conversation.
What has town gained from your behavior, assuming you are town? not much.

You're not the only one that has posted so little, so I don't strictly have a problem with that. Again, it's the content of your posts and what mindset you might have while making the posts, and the possible scum advantages.

I will lay off you and give you a chance to post your reads and stuff though.

btw I would say page 2 and forward is no longer RVS because there is discussion and not many randomly placed votes.










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Dec 30, 2016 4:52 PM

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@Mishukax #375 I'm on my mobile I'm not even going to try and quote this.

To answer your question about whaty I'm doing differently:
-waited to place my RVS vote: I figured people might comment on it which could help move things along plus bring me attention
-brush off you accusations: normally I would respond right away I've decided to try and take a more wait and see approach
-not posing as much: I was super active in my last game and though I survived I got frustrated with the lack of activity from other players. So I'm being a little more reserved in the early goings.

If there are any other questions I missed please let me know.
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Dec 30, 2016 4:55 PM

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logic340 said:
@Mishukax #375 I'm on my mobile I'm not even going to try and quote this.

To answer your question about whaty I'm doing differently:
-waited to place my RVS vote: I figured people might comment on it which could help move things along plus bring me attention
-brush off you accusations: normally I would respond right away I've decided to try and take a more wait and see approach
-not posing as much: I was super active in my last game and though I survived I got frustrated with the lack of activity from other players. So I'm being a little more reserved in the early goings.

If there are any other questions I missed please let me know.
@Mishukax also I wanted to start a counter train/counter train this game which got screwed by real life.
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Dec 30, 2016 5:19 PM

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Grapefruit21 said:
And stop posting walls that are +80% summaries of what has happened. That's what notes are for.
Uuuh, not to be critical of your playstyle, but isn't that exactly what you did here? I remember reading that thinking you should have left most of that in your notes and only summarized your analysis, not add frank descriptions every single post you linked to. I don't care either way since you added analysis at the bottom but... this comment of yours is hypocritical

Bursama said:
@Kit: I'm fully aware I haven't voted yet. I want to take a look at few things before that.
You didn't answer my question.. which is funny because right above your ping to me you tell logic you will answer questions about reads (I asked for your read on grapefruit)

Grapefruit21 said:
I noticed that in the thread I was reading was unsure if it was typical or not but in it the town was not close making up their minds with five minutes to go.
[relevant quote]

Sonata said:
I scumread Gruffin, because of what I quoted in #250 (that's why I asked him about it). I find it rather suspicious that he chose to change his behaviour in this game in particular from his usual townie, and that he admitted so only after being questioned about it instead of placing a disclaimer beforehand if he was knowingly doing so.
Gruffin actually mentioned that she would change her bahavior going into the next game during our previous game (so in other words, long before receiving her role for this game). I understand not everyone would have seen it.. but I don't think she made it up on the spot to cover herself

Gruffin said:
Logic’s a player I’d like to get a read on as soon as possible since he’s a great asset as town and someone I like to work with. He was acting scummy early on, so pressuring him in the way that I did felt like the best option to accomplish this. If he’s town who has changed playstyles, then I was hoping that it would show, and given his recents posts I’m starting to believe that. Reason #2 would be that such a confrontation is a great way to start conversation and get information into the game early on, looks like it worked out splendidly.
I believe this. I don't think Gruffin would do this as scum, because she knows Logic too well to try to mislynch him :b

logic340 said:
Kit said:
I explained it in the post you quoted. I did the same thing to Gruffin in day 1 of CCL because she had no "real" evidence to suspect crossbell, so I was testing to see if she was pointing suspicion for no reason (what scum would do). Maybe Lucian was just trying to look smart but it was good enough for me since we has commenting on a supposed read.
I still don't see how using that term equates to scum-hunting. Especially when you and I were just fluffing.
Fair enough. Just my perspective.

/page 6










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Dec 30, 2016 5:37 PM

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PentaFlare said:
@Burnsama You believe my vote explained my thoughts too much? Is that scummy to you?

Personally, I'm trying to be mostly transparent with my thought process this game because most of the times I've been suspected in the past as town have been related to withholding my thoughts. (I usually don't spell out my thoughts so that scum can't get a clear idea of how much of a threat I pose to them which means I don't get nightkilled.)

I'm going to take a different approach this game. I am going to be stating most of my thought process. I'm currently working on figuring out grapefruit. I notice you also read them as slightly scummy. Would you care to expand on your reasons for that? Is it just because of the post you quoted earlier?


Yes. It's okay to explain things, but I can say from my own experience that overexplaining reasons behind their actions is something more likely to come from scum than town.

Town have genuine opinions and obviously believe them, while scum are trying to fake opinions. This usually results that scum try to come up with their own story how to reached that conclusion and tend at times to mention bits of their invented story, partly as a way to justify their vote. Like, this is a basic thing in trying to catch a liar.

Like, try asking a kid if they went straight home from school. If they answer "Yes, I went home and on the way home I saw a cat that had white fur but black paws and I stopped to play with it for five minutes and then I saw a tree that had three birds on them and they looked really pretty and then I decided to take a photo of them, here, look at this photo..." instead of like "Yeah", do you think they are being honest and not making it up?

logic340 said:
@Bursama i answered #164 and #262 was there going to be a response to them? Did answering those questions tell you something about me or my alignment?


#164: Not that much about your alignment, more about how you think.
#262: I think I might have noticed something, which would point to you being town. I need to recheck it, though.

@Kit: Where's your question. I really tried to look for that but couldn't find it. >_>
Count to 30 -victories:

Up to 30: 19 wins | Up to 60: 2 wins | Up to 90: 3 win | Up to 120: 1 win | Up to 150: 1 win | Up to 180:
0 wins | Up to 210: 1 win
Dec 30, 2016 5:39 PM

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Bursama said:
@Kit: Where's your question. I really tried to look for that but couldn't find it. >_>

Two questions but you answered the first one I guess

Kit said:

@Bursama why haven't you voted for anyone yet, not even an RVS? Do you still suspect Grapefruit?










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Dec 30, 2016 5:48 PM

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Soren said:
Grapefruit21 said:
Hmmm on x40 I still have a slight town read. I really felt like he was trying to help the town at first. But I definitely see why the later posts are drawing attention. They don't out weigh my initial read yet, but unless x40 steps up and does some real work I'll get on board with the wagon.

@Lucian thanks for explaining it a bit to me. And I'm now seeing that a bit more. Still a few too many +1 this guys is on to something type posts. But then again Soren had some good posts.
Hmm I can see why you'd think that. But neither has he had another instance in this game where he pointed something out with the intention of helping town out.

Hmm?
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one."
Dec 30, 2016 5:49 PM

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Mishukax said:
Bursama said:
unless Lucian is some mafia god with tendency to do really ballsy moves, I doubt he (and by that extension Kit) is mafia.

The annoying thing is that I feel like Lucian is exactly that kind of mafia player.


Want to elaborate this one?

Bursama said:
@_0x40_ Mudslinging means that you try to paint someone scummy by pointing out negative things about others and at the same time (usually) not trying to figure out or push that person for those things.

Like "Look at that post X, it's so scummy" and then do nothing about it.

That's not necessarily scum behavior. If anything Grape's focus on Lucian is weirder to me. But I like that he put balance in his Lucian analysis.


Tell me, why town would sling mud? How's trying to paint someone scummy not scum behaviour?
Count to 30 -victories:

Up to 30: 19 wins | Up to 60: 2 wins | Up to 90: 3 win | Up to 120: 1 win | Up to 150: 1 win | Up to 180:
0 wins | Up to 210: 1 win
Dec 30, 2016 5:49 PM

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Lord_Sithis said:
I like how people are ignoring my questions. @Mishukax @LucianRoy @Sonata

Lord_Sithis said:
About @Mishukax, can you tell us the reasons for your Logic vote already? I feel like some people still haven't explained their votes properly.
And @LucianRoy, I noticed something weird. Maybe it's one of your jokes. You said in #221 that this is your first game, but you have said that you have played multiple times before.
@Sonata, you're voting Gruffin. But you said you're scumreading rosielovesanime. Why isn't your vote on her instead?

This is my first game. I'm brand new to this. Nice to meet you, I'm Lucian Roy.
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one."
Dec 30, 2016 5:55 PM

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Kit said:
Bursama said:
@Kit: Where's your question. I really tried to look for that but couldn't find it. >_>

Two questions but you answered the first one I guess

Kit said:

@Bursama why haven't you voted for anyone yet, not even an RVS? Do you still suspect Grapefruit?


I kinda missed the RVS (the first time I checked the thread, there were already 3 pages worth of posts). And I'm usually quite reserved about my vote as both alignments. I'll vote when I feel like the situation requires for it.

And I'm not sure how I'm feeling about grapefruit anymore. I guess I'm kinda feeling slightly better about him...? I kinda want to ISO him, but no can do on these forums. >_>
Count to 30 -victories:

Up to 30: 19 wins | Up to 60: 2 wins | Up to 90: 3 win | Up to 120: 1 win | Up to 150: 1 win | Up to 180:
0 wins | Up to 210: 1 win
Dec 30, 2016 5:56 PM

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Going out for the night. I'll be back with plenty of time before the phase change.
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Dec 30, 2016 5:59 PM

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Bursama said:
Kit said:

Two questions but you answered the first one I guess



I kinda missed the RVS (the first time I checked the thread, there were already 3 pages worth of posts). And I'm usually quite reserved about my vote as both alignments. I'll vote when I feel like the situation requires for it.

And I'm not sure how I'm feeling about grapefruit anymore. I guess I'm kinda feeling slightly better about him...? I kinda want to ISO him, but no can do on these forums. >_>
Hmm, ok I see

We still do ISOs here, just gotta ctrl+f either the full username or the join date.. I guess it is a bit annoying to do










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Dec 30, 2016 5:59 PM
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LucianRoy said:
Lord_Sithis said:
I like how people are ignoring my questions. @Mishukax @LucianRoy @Sonata


This is my first game. I'm brand new to this. Nice to meet you, I'm Lucian Roy.
Nice to meet you, I'm Lord_Sithis. But why lie though? Aren't you town?
Dec 30, 2016 6:00 PM

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Lord_Sithis said:
Sonata said:


That I don't like it doesn't mean that I don't understand the benefits it has for the game. I don't like it as a person, but as a player, I know it is good for the town's interest.
This is weird...

It seems perfectly rational to me. I think what Sonata is implying is along the same line of thought with N0 kills and how some people never get to play the game because they get killed off before the 1st Day phase.
Also, if you are scumreading rosielovesanime, why aren't you voting for her?

Puuusshhhyyy...
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one."
Dec 30, 2016 6:02 PM
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LucianRoy said:
Lord_Sithis said:
This is weird...

It seems perfectly rational to me. I think what Sonata is implying is along the same line of thought with N0 kills and how some people never get to play the game because they get killed off before the 1st Day phase.
Also, if you are scumreading rosielovesanime, why aren't you voting for her?

Puuusshhhyyy...
Yet he has admitted that it is important that someone gets killed of before the 1st Day phase.
Dec 30, 2016 6:03 PM

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Lord_Sithis said:
LucianRoy said:

This is my first game. I'm brand new to this. Nice to meet you, I'm Lucian Roy.
Nice to meet you, I'm Lord_Sithis. But why lie though? Aren't you town?

Town as can be, but in being new, I fail to recognize humor in people's posts and take all of them at face value. It leaves me with this feeling like you're joking with me, but I can't quite tell.
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one."
Dec 30, 2016 6:04 PM

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Lord_Sithis said:
LucianRoy said:

It seems perfectly rational to me. I think what Sonata is implying is along the same line of thought with N0 kills and how some people never get to play the game because they get killed off before the 1st Day phase.

Puuusshhhyyy...
Yet he has admitted that it is important that someone gets killed of before the 1st Day phase.

Town needs that juicy info to kick off the game, p-sure he recognizes that as much as you or me.
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one."
Dec 30, 2016 6:04 PM
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LucianRoy said:
Lord_Sithis said:
Nice to meet you, I'm Lord_Sithis. But why lie though? Aren't you town?

Town as can be, but in being new, I fail to recognize humor in people's posts and take all of them at face value. It leaves me with this feeling like you're joking with me, but I can't quite tell.
I don't like joking, we should be as clear as possible in our posts, confusing posts aren't good. So, why do you say you are new if you're not?
Dec 30, 2016 6:09 PM

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@Phraze What convinced you to vote Sonata over Sithis/Mishu/Lucian?

@LucianRoy What do you think of the reasoning behind Phraze’s vote? Sheeping or no?
Dec 30, 2016 6:10 PM

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logic340 said:
I'd like some other's opinions on Gruffin's recent activity?
I posted some in my previous catch up post

Lord_Sithis said:
Kit did some interesting stuff. He thinks Sonata looks scummy because he isn't really trying to catch scum. Sonata hasn't posted much, but he said he doesn't like lynching day 1, but hasn't done much to catch scum and reduce the chances of lynching a townie, so I can kind of understand Kit here. However, Kit thinks Mishu is town for some reason, I don't understand that, since Mishu hasn't really done anything other than voting Logic for no reason. And he did a nice analysis on _0x40_ which is nice. I would say he seems town, but outright saying Mishu is town without a reason feels bad to me, especially when Mishu is voting Logic. So it'll stay neutral.
I really didn't focus on Sonata as much as you're trying to make it seem. I didn't even vote Sonata. I also don't think I really emphasized the Mishu thing.. All I said was I don't think scum would behave that way and that I would leave him alone for now.

Can you please link me the post where I "outright say Mishu is town without a reason"?

Gruffin said:
I won't be saying what it is quite yet, but there is often a method to Phraze’s madness if you can spot it. So far, she hasn’t done anything town!Phraze would do, but considering how she likes to play around with her meta...ehhh…? I need to see more of her to tell.
Yeah I haven't seen her do that town phraze thing, but she could just be playing differently on purpose so idk.. It was hard for me to read her in the great terror too.
(she's looking better the more I read page seven.. i think)

LucianRoy said:
Why do anything if everything is meaningless? Nothing has a purpose, not these questions, nor anything.
You just solved this game, and all future and past games

Sonata said:

Indeed I'm not new to this game (though I'm not as experienced as most members who started around the same time I did cause I don't play as often), but I don't know, it's just the way I am.

@Gruffin I suppose that if I ask you to tell me something about what your role that you won't comply will ya?

@Phraze I am always light about scumhunting in day 1, what's the point of going full on with just conjectures about someone else's behaviour anyway. It's paranoid-like.

Going to bed now, I'll see you all tomorrow if I'm still alive I suppose.
Uuh, Why are you role fishing when you have no interest on pressuring during Day one, and you are supposedly not going to be around until after phase change so you wouldn't see the answer anyway

/page 7










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