| I had some negative thoughts on the back of my mind about ufotable for a while now and i thought about sharing them to get you guys' perspective on them. I don't know if it's the last two source materials or what, but I'm starting to feel disillusioned with ufo. With GE they were the "style over substance" studio, but with ToZ, I'm starting to even lose that... awe on the technical level i used to have when i watched their stuff. Everything just feels so manufactured now and the over-saturation of digital effects doesn't help change my perspective at all. I'm starting to get really apathetic about their visual style and it really feels like their actual creative staff, outside the digital team, has left after F/Z. Everything is just so dull. Yes, it's flashy, but still looks so boring to me. What do you guys think about the current ufo? Did your perspective towards them change over time, or did it remain the same? |
astroprogs said: I had some negative thoughts on the back of my mind about ufotable for a while now and i thought about sharing them to get you guys' perspective on them. I don't know if it's the last two source materials or what, but I'm starting to feel disillusioned with ufo. With GE they were the "style over substance" studio, but with ToZ, I'm starting to even lose that... awe on the technical level i used to have when i watched their stuff. Everything just feels so manufactured now and the over-saturation of digital effects doesn't help change my perspective at all. I'm starting to get really apathetic about their visual style and it really feels like their actual creative staff, outside the digital team, has left after F/Z. Everything is just so dull. Yes, it's flashy, but still looks so boring to me. What do you guys think about the current ufo? Did your perspective towards them change over time, or did it remain the same? I've always held ufotable to a high regard, especially when it comes to their visuals. GE imo was one of their worse anime, because as you said, "style over substance", but I still enjoyed it nonetheless. Their visual style is one of the best I've seen, especially with F/Z and ToZ, and I feel as though it looks "smoother" so to speak. Even their CGI looks really good and I always remain impressed with what I think is some of the more realistic effects that they do. I assume you find their style dull now, because you've gotten used to it and you can easily identify the visual elements that make up the majority of the shows that they do nowadays. |
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FalK-ON said: astroprogs said: I had some negative thoughts on the back of my mind about ufotable for a while now and i thought about sharing them to get you guys' perspective on them. I don't know if it's the last two source materials or what, but I'm starting to feel disillusioned with ufo. With GE they were the "style over substance" studio, but with ToZ, I'm starting to even lose that... awe on the technical level i used to have when i watched their stuff. Everything just feels so manufactured now and the over-saturation of digital effects doesn't help change my perspective at all. I'm starting to get really apathetic about their visual style and it really feels like their actual creative staff, outside the digital team, has left after F/Z. Everything is just so dull. Yes, it's flashy, but still looks so boring to me. What do you guys think about the current ufo? Did your perspective towards them change over time, or did it remain the same? I've always held ufotable to a high regard, especially when it comes to their visuals. GE imo was one of their worse anime, because as you said, "style over substance", but I still enjoyed it nonetheless. Their visual style is one of the best I've seen, especially with F/Z and ToZ, and I feel as though it looks "smoother" so to speak. Even their CGI looks really good and I always remain impressed with what I think is some of the more realistic effects that they do. I assume you find their style dull now, because you've gotten used to it and you can easily identify the visual elements that make up the majority of the shows that they do nowadays. Me being more accustomed to it is definitely part of the reason, but... I've gotten as used to Shaft, Kyoani and Mad House, and yet ufo is the one still looking dull for me, comparatively. I think ufo has become dependent on their digital team to an unhealthy degree now. Their shot composition is way too standard, they no longer depend on smooth hand-drawn animation, but focus on the details and let their DP team do the rest, Here are ufo's "tricks" for achieving their usual visual fidelity: 1. They discovered the ancient mysterious magic of "drawing at a higher resolution" :O, which gives their visuals that clean look. It's less ufo being artistically superior, and more like they have post-2010 equipment, unlike most other studios, that stii draw in 720p, sometimes even less. 2. They took special care of their BGs, which the one truly impressive part about their visual prowess, because that seriously requires a lot of talent. 3. Smooth animation requires a lot of hand-drawn in-between frames and even then, due to being time-limited for TV production, they most likely will lose in details what they gained in frames. So, to remedy that, they usually do high detail static shots and animate very little and let the BGs and their DP team do the rest. 4. Because most of their effects are digitally rendered, they can render them at any FPS they want with no additional work, so they over-saturate the scenery with them in action scenes to cover their standard animation. They move elements of the scene faster than the rest to give that "smooth" feeling. As you can see, their BGs aside, none of this requires the level of true artistic uniqueness required to give a truly special visual flare. Not to mention, the digital effects just lack the personal "touch" you get from catefuly created hand-drawn frames and visual effects. ufo's "tricks" are really unimpressive for anyone who messed with the graphic setting of a PC game IMO. They're slightly modified "soulless" stock 3D engine effects. If you've ever tried something like SweetFX, you'll automatically start to see through it and look at the actual assets hodden being all the postprocessing filters and overlay effects. I guess a good way of comparing ufo's style to the likes of Kyoani and Shaft, is that ufo's is technically impressive for anime standards, while the others' style is visually intriguing and mind provoking. Not to be that guy who blows Shaft's trumpet or anything, as I truly hate some of the works as much as I absolutely adore others, but the 30-seconds trailer for Last Encore looks more visually interesting than anything in ufoUBW, GE and ToZ combined as you can see how each single shot is unique and digital filters are enhancing the hand-drawn assets, not cover them or take their place. That's how much I've been desensitized to ufo's digital style. |
astroprogsJan 16, 2017 12:19 AM
| I on the other hand cant see how LE's PV looks superior in any way, to lets say, UBW reveal trailer. Honestly, it is so out of context and random. When did Extra become so edgy with skeletons and so dark atmosphere? Even Apo's PV that looks dull , in coloring, looks better because I get what is going on. Shaft being unique in every scene doesnt entertain me. Shaft being unique in an entire series does.But still, except Kizu, they have gotten as old and "lazy" with monogatari just like ufo has with their works. |
ssjokg said: I on the other hand cant see how LE's PV looks superior in any way, to lets say, UBW reveal trailer. Honestly, it is so out of context and random. When did Extra become so edgy with skeletons and so dark atmosphere? Even Apo's PV that looks dull , in coloring, looks better because I get what is going on. Shaft being unique in every scene doesnt entertain me. Shaft being unique in an entire series does.But still, except Kizu, they have gotten as old and "lazy" with monogatari just like ufo has with their works. It's the symbolism, rather than the individual elements in the scene. They could've used a hazy formless shape as well, but a completely dead entity trying to gasp for life by extending its dead hand and looking with empty eyes to the Servant who answered his call and essentially gave it another chance at life. You can also see Hakunon looking through the skull's eyes to further convey this. It's a really striking image that packs much more weight. The trailer is in no way an indicative of how the show will turn out, of course, bit it really showcases the director's ability to transform a scene like this into a much better interpretation. Also, what UBW trailer are you referring to? Because the one I know rode hard on my nostalgia and ufo's visuals, rather than doing something original or different of it's own. |
astroprogs said: ssjokg said: I on the other hand cant see how LE's PV looks superior in any way, to lets say, UBW reveal trailer. Honestly, it is so out of context and random. When did Extra become so edgy with skeletons and so dark atmosphere? Even Apo's PV that looks dull , in coloring, looks better because I get what is going on. Shaft being unique in every scene doesnt entertain me. Shaft being unique in an entire series does.But still, except Kizu, they have gotten as old and "lazy" with monogatari just like ufo has with their works. It's the symbolism, rather than the individual elements in the scene. They could've used a hazy formless shape as well, but a completely dead entity trying to gasp for life by extending its dead hand and looking with empty eyes to the Servant who answered his call and essentially gave it another chance at life. You can also see Hakunon looking through the skull's eyes to further convey this. It's a really striking image that packs much more weight. The trailer is in no way an indicative of how the show will turn out, of course, bit it really showcases the director's ability to transform a scene like this into a much better interpretation. Also, what UBW trailer are you referring to? Because the one I know rode hard on my nostalgia and ufo's visuals, rather than doing something original or different of it's own. Meh, it's what Shaft always does with every anime except Hidamari afaik so.... Maybe it's the new approach to Fate that you like. I mean one when they revealed the route. Shaft always transforms their anime into something bizarre. Madoka's world was already a bit weird even without the witches Monogatari is always over the top. And I except Moon Cell to look just like those. But I really dont think that ufo shoukd have done this with UBW or Tales. Madoka was an original story. Monogatari didnt even have a description of Araragi and the backgrounds never mattered in the books. Etc... Extra is weird so I expect it to have such visuals. I cant say the same about other Fate series or series ufo works besides Fate. I really cant see what was in FZ that was gone afterwards, as you say. Shaft keeps being "weird" as it was and ufo keeps making great visuals since KnK. |
ssjokg said: astroprogs said: It's the symbolism, rather than the individual elements in the scene. They could've used a hazy formless shape as well, but a completely dead entity trying to gasp for life by extending its dead hand and looking with empty eyes to the Servant who answered his call and essentially gave it another chance at life. You can also see Hakunon looking through the skull's eyes to further convey this. It's a really striking image that packs much more weight. The trailer is in no way an indicative of how the show will turn out, of course, bit it really showcases the director's ability to transform a scene like this into a much better interpretation. Also, what UBW trailer are you referring to? Because the one I know rode hard on my nostalgia and ufo's visuals, rather than doing something original or different of it's own. Meh, it's what Shaft always does with every anime except Hidamari afaik so.... Maybe it's the new approach to Fate that you like. I mean one when they revealed the route. Shaft always transforms their anime into something bizarre. Madoka's world was already a bit weird even without the witches Monogatari is always over the top. And I except Moon Cell to look just like those. But I really dont think that ufo shoukd have done this with UBW or Tales. Madoka was an original story. Monogatari didnt even have a description of Araragi and the backgrounds never mattered in the books. Etc... Extra is weird so I expect it to have such visuals. I cant say the same about other Fate series or series ufo works besides Fate. I really cant see what was in FZ that was gone afterwards, as you say. Shaft keeps being "weird" as it was and ufo keeps making great visuals since KnK. That's not being "weird", that's just good directing On the ShaftWeird scale, that trailer was extremely tame. With exception of Nero breaking her neck, the trailer had absolutely none of Shaft's trademark shenanigans. Extra isn't as weird as you're saying it is. Take the unique look (Imageproch and Wada) away and you get a standard amnesia story with a few sci-fi elements. This isn't about wanting ufo to be Shaft 2.0 , this is about taking the basic concept of making scenes interesting rather than making them flashier. I'm not saying that ufo should do what Shaft uniquely does, I'm saying that they did absolutely nothing unique of their own, and I don't mean changing the story, I mean the interesting camera movements, unique shots and overall scene composition. ufo's cemera works is extremely lazy. That scene with Rose talking to the shady merchants in episode 13 of ToZ was just... bleh. And I'm not cherry-picking either, that scene just showcased how ufo is able to display good visuals without too much effort. I can't put my hands on what exactly changed, but I think it:s either the direction, the screenplay or both. With ufoUBW, GE and ToZ, it's like they've stopped trying with the camera at all. With the exception of very few inventive shots in the second cour of ufoUBW, the camera movement was the most standard you can ever get. Is it the one in the BD or the one with EMIYA 2012 playing? If neither, could you link to it, please? |
| But Shaft always bets on the weird scale for their good directing. I dont know if you have watched it but the trailer really reminded me of Cossette no Shouzou, one of Shinbou's old works. The trailer didnt remind me of Extra either.I wasnt seeing a VR world in that trailer.They took the liberty of adding their thing.If this will be bad or not we shall see. Well visually it will be impressive, I am talking about as an adaptation of the world of Extra. And Extra is weird.The stages for example and how calm everyone looks even tho the student body slowly disappears. It made Shirou look normal. I dont know anything about Tales or GE, so I will only talk about UBW. Think of what the summoning scene in Extra was and compare it to what Shaft will probably do(if the PV IS part of the series); it is a major step up. Now for UBW while you do have the VN,and can say that the scene is more "alive", you also have FZ to compare it to.It isnt a surprise that nothing seems new. Extra is different even in the source. If Extra wasnt a rpg it would look like Extella and this is Shaft's style. I must clear up first that I dont like too much camera movement for no reason.Which is why I dont see how Silver Link is "so fucking great!!!". Then again, ufo had that issue since forever.Knk is talking heads and scenery when there is no action.Remember the epilogue?That was really bad as far as visuals go.And in FZ Tokiomi and Risei walking in circle.Which became such a meme that it was reproduced in UBW with Kirei walking around Shirou.This time we had some camera movement tho. I would say that instead of ufo getting worse, you just realized that other studios do better(which as I said it isnt new) in directing a scene. |
| Not in this trailer. No, I haven't watched it, but it's irrelevant anyway. You shouldn't judge a 30-second teaser on how well the adaptation is going to adapt Extra's world. This can only go as far as the scene they kinds sorta showed. Also, keep in mind that Shaft should not and would not be limited to the scale dictated by the PSP hardware. You'll see changes because a 1:1 visual adaptation will look like hot garbage. Everybody was calm because they knew the stakes before hand. You think the people who willingly transfered their souls for a battle royale on the moon under the administration of an unknown alien entity would start getting cold feet when people in the death game start dying? If you're talking about the NPCs, well... They ARe a bunch of AI. But I'm assuming you meant the human characters. It isn't that it doesn't seem new, it seems dull. There's a distinction. Also, I wouldn't want ufo to change the summoning scene in UBW because it's iconic. Scenes like this aren't what I have a problem with. Prillya had the right amount of camera movement IMO. It's far behind the likes of Trigger and Bones in that department. ufo just look like the camera man keeps leaving for the bathroom. I don't actually have much of an issue with talking heads. I have an issue with static shots at standard angles. KnK constantly shifted perspectives to avoid this. The epilogue was a drama CD with pretty pictures. It has nothing happening and attempting to visualize the entire conversation would just look silly, so I didn't really expect anything and I was OK with what I got. Even F/Z had the decensy to fill that bit with something. The camera kept moving and shifting perspectives between the three characters and overview shots. GE and ToZ had absolutely none of this. ufoUBW had VERY little of it too. This is a visual medium. The moment I feel it's alright to just listen to what's being said without looking is the moment the direction failed horribly. ufo used to do better. I feel none of these issues when I rewatch F/Z and KnK. I still feel glued to the screen all the way through both, while I get really bored during a lot of UBW and all of GE and, so far, ToZ. I say "so far", but its clear that this won't be changing all the way to the end. Yep, that's the one in the BD. The trailer editing is good, but as I said, it rides hard on nostalgia and ufo's visuals. The trailer itself is pretty good since it's more or less representative of what we got in the end and it showcased that we'll get a good story and visuals and little unique directing. |
astroprogsJan 16, 2017 8:05 AM
| Does anyone want to play some YUGIOH Duel Links? |
ssjokg said: Does anyone want to play some YUGIOH Duel Links? Ohhh, it's been a while. I played the shit out of the 3DS games. The campaigns in the 5Ds games and the last GX game were enjoyable as heck. I really wanna get back on the game. Can you unlock everything with a free currency or are the packs gated behind microtransactions? |
astroprogs said: ssjokg said: Does anyone want to play some YUGIOH Duel Links? Ohhh, it's been a while. I played the shit out of the 3DS games. The campaigns in the 5Ds games and the last GX game were enjoyable as heck. I really wanna get back on the game. Can you unlock everything with a free currency or are the packs gated behind microtransactions? First of all its like YugiOH lite. The fields are limited to 3 cards(3 monsters, 3 trap/spell) for each player. That aside it is like fgo.Not sure about the rates. But from what I saw so far it is way easier to collect gems(quartz) from missions etc. With the in game currency you get from duels you can trade for cards.Think of the prisms. If you enter now you can get the bonuses for their milestones. It is very easy.You can even unlock "skills" that can activate once when you begin your duel.For Example I can have from the start "Mountain" activated, without even having the card.Another player I saw had LP boost, he started the duel with 1200 LP more. Fortunately for me, I havent seen any effect cards from the later game.Synchro etc. |
ssjokg said: astroprogs said: Ohhh, it's been a while. I played the shit out of the 3DS games. The campaigns in the 5Ds games and the last GX game were enjoyable as heck. I really wanna get back on the game. Can you unlock everything with a free currency or are the packs gated behind microtransactions? First of all its like YugiOH lite. The fields are limited to 3 cards(3 monsters, 3 trap/spell) for each player. That aside it is like fgo.Not sure about the rates. But from what I saw so far it is way easier to collect gems(quartz) from missions etc. With the in game currency you get from duels you can trade for cards.Think of the prisms. If you enter now you can get the bonuses for their milestones. It is very easy.You can even unlock "skills" that can activate once when you begin your duel.For Example I can have from the start "Mountain" activated, without even having the card.Another player I saw had LP boost, he started the duel with 1200 LP more. Fortunately for me, I havent seen any effect cards from the later game.Synchro etc. That's certainly a better format for a DM game on the go. The traditional duels can take up to an hour if not more (some Fairy World duels took like 3 hours), so glad they tweaked the rules for this game like this. Hmmm. Alright, i'll download it later this week and try it myself. The game looks very polished too, so I'm excited. Thanks for all the info :D |
| Yeah i remember one of my decks in an old game. I used cards that increased my lp no matter what was going on. |
ssjokg said: Yeah i remember one of my decks in an old game. I used cards that increased my lp no matter what was going on. A stalling deck, huh? Yeah, i tried my hands on them with the early Yugi, Kaiba and Joey PC games and some of the GBA ones. Ah, such fond memories. Old cards like this will forever be itched in my brain. I'm more a fan of extremely fast decks. I used to use a really fast Warriors deck. My greatest challenge was trying to surpass the summoning speed and consistency of Blackwing. My deck always had better offense, but Blackwings' innate abilitiy to keep calling for each other from the hand AND graveyard without the need of extra cards, like with my Warriors-focused one, made them usually one step ahead if i couldn't get a decent hand right off the bat. |
astroprogsJan 17, 2017 2:36 PM
| Yeah it was a lot of fun with that deck. Holy shit, now that I think about it, I was still on 9th to 10th grade when the first PC game came out. I also had Yu-Gi-Oh! True Duel Monsters: Forbidden Memories on PS1, which is nothing like the anime at any point of the first series. |
ssjokg said: Yeah it was a lot of fun with that deck. Holy shit, now that I think about it, I was still on 9th to 10th grade when the first PC game came out. I also had Yu-Gi-Oh! True Duel Monsters: Forbidden Memories on PS1, which is nothing like the anime at any point of the first series. Ayy, I also have that game on the PS1. Don't recall the "True Duel Monsters" part of the title though. |
ShinsoPriest said: That's how the wikia calls it.ssjokg said: Yeah it was a lot of fun with that deck. Holy shit, now that I think about it, I was still on 9th to 10th grade when the first PC game came out. I also had Yu-Gi-Oh! True Duel Monsters: Forbidden Memories on PS1, which is nothing like the anime at any point of the first series. Ayy, I also have that game on the PS1. Don't recall the "True Duel Monsters" part of the title though. |
| One bad thing about this game is the servers. If you lose connection you lose the match,but it happened to me 3 times in a a row, I even lost a rank because of it. My connection was fine so I guess, I have to feel again the anger fgo made me forget. |
ssjokg said: ShinsoPriest said: That's how the wikia calls it.Ayy, I also have that game on the PS1. Don't recall the "True Duel Monsters" part of the title though. That's what it's called in Japan. Yu-Gi-Oh! True Duel Monsters: Sealed Memories. Western release is simply called Yu-Gi-Oh! Forbidden Memories. I also own Yu-Gi-Oh! Worldwide Edition for the GBA, and that's it. Wasn't really a fan outside of the first anime season back in the days it aired on Toonami. |
| Same here about the anime.But due to "responsibilities" of that age i missed almost everything after Malik's arc. |
| You mean there's an arc after the whole thing with the God cards? I didn't know. |
ShinsoPriest said: You mean there's an arc after the whole thing with the God cards? I didn't know. Without checking the wikia: Atlantis arc where some dude was trying to awake Leviathan(yes the card why would it be the actual thing??) And something about another VR game I think with capsules. EDit:Em nvm. It was before the finale with the past etc. Just the usual fuck up greek stations always did with animations. Transformers G1, Thundercats and Batman never aired properly. Cardcaptor Sakura would always reset after Sakura confesses in the amusement park. |
ssjokgJan 17, 2017 4:14 PM
| Shinkai's 'Your Name' Becomes the Greatest Thing to Ever Exist Soon, curing cancer in a theater near you. On a serious note, with how much hype and awards they're throwing at the thing, I honestly have no idea how can this thing ever meet my expectations. They're essentially selling it to me as the greatest animated film to ever exist. About the YGO anime, I don't care what anyone says, the Leviathan arc was truly amazing with a lot of great moments. How many kids anime that preach friendship and being good and nice have the main character utterly snap and attempt to murder another person by carving them up using real monsters, attempting to throw them off a train and then be satisfied with their soul being sucked out of their body. That scene was shocking and utterly amazing for me when I watched air for the first time. It's also one of the very few times 4kids didn't change the context of that scene, so with everything intact and Dan Green's amazing performance, I was seriously shaken by what I just watched. The scene for reference: |
astroprogsJan 18, 2017 12:40 AM
astroprogs said: Shinkai's 'Your Name' Becomes the Greatest Thing to Ever Exist Soon, curing cancer in a theater near you. On a serious note, with how much hype and awards they're throwing at the thing, I honestly have no idea how can this thing ever meet my expectations. They're essentially selling it to me as the greatest animated film to ever exist. Just don't ride the hype train. For something like Kimi no Na Wa, I'd personally make my own opinions after I've watched it, not relying on what the majority says about it just because it's the majority. |
|
| Kingdom Hearts 2.8 is looking pretty as fuck I still don't have a PS4. FML |
ssjokg said: Does anyone want to play some YUGIOH Duel Links? Me! Me! Me! I just started this week. Pretty sure, my deck will wasted you. |
 |
KaiserNazrin said: Tell me your ID.ssjokg said: Does anyone want to play some YUGIOH Duel Links? Me! Me! Me! I just started this week. Pretty sure, my deck will wasted you. |
ssjokg said: Tell me your ID. 169-434-204 Let's duel. |
|
Fixed that for you. |
On another note, for some reason i started playing this fucking game and... i can't stop >_< In a couple of days after i finish the story mode, hopefully I'll go back to EXTRA (and my life). |
| lol, I love Gigguk's stuff. Too real. Another gem. XD |
"We have a Hulk" |
| Don't try and look up 2B's skirt. |
| 10/10 Game of The Year. |
| They must've been laughing in their seats programming 2B's animation of flipping around and swiping at the camera when it sees too much of her backside. 10/10 GOTY |
| Well, I think this and Tales of Berseria I'll probably end up getting on my birthday in April. |
|
| Finally get PS4 after much sacrifice. Can't wait to play Final Fantasy XV. |
|
| Not really into FE, but I guess I can play FE Heroes while F/GO doesn't have an event. Friend code is 6266655304. The lack of FE8-10 characters is killing me. Also the story seems to have the writing complexity of something written by a ten year old. |
 |
| I've been playing some KHX Unchained on the side for the past month. I'm considering Memory Defrag as well though that depends on when I can reroll Silica or Yuuki. FE Heroes is like GBF where I don't care for the story or characters and so my motivation to keep investing time into it will just die. So I don't bother. |
| I tried Memory Defrag, it was fun but I will only play it again if Alicization characters are in it. Pre-Alicization is cringy. |
|
| Maybe that'll happen when the SAO anime gets a 3rd season with the Alicization arc. |
ShinsoPriest said: People that watched the movie said there was a "SAO will return" message at the end.Maybe that'll happen when the SAO anime gets a 3rd season with the Alicization arc. |
| Fgo got best waifus But Feh gameplay is better. At least u use more your brain |
| bruh |
Not really. The gameplay is extremely simplified compared to traditional FE games. Maps are all 6x8, and there are no equipment. And FGO does require you to use your brain if you don't just spam Waver+Merlin or 5* servants. Especially when fighting raid bosses with 6 million HP. |
ShinsoPriest said: Not really. The gameplay is extremely simplified compared to traditional FE games. Maps are all 6x8, and there are no equipment. And FGO does require you to use your brain if you don't just spam Waver+Merlin or 5* servants. Especially when fighting raid bosses with 6 million HP. i mean there is no event right now just combo raikou raikou zerklot and merlin to farm daily quest is boring as hell and yes, FEH simplify it too much |
| bruh |
| I don't think any mobage would be fun when you've reached endgame and there aren't any ongoing events. I love the stamina bar for allowing me to stop playing after I've spent it all on QP farming. |
| I said I would play FE Heroes, but the gameplay and story are definitely way too simple to invest in. Tiny maps and a 4 person party limit doesn't lend to much of the tactical depth FE games normally have. It's also a lot more dependent on raw stats. I might as well just emulate an FE game or one of those FE rom hacks if I wanted to play FE on the go |
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