Absolving rape victims of all responsibility. (TL;DR)

Nicole said:
No, you're trying to force your own opinions on others.

lupadim said:
Or are you saying that when a seducing women walks on the street, a rapist wouldn't be more likely to rape her

JamalKing said:
That is actually true, most rapists don't remember what their victim was wearing, look it up.

Ignorant person is ignorant.

Makomonogatari said:
No "pro-responsibility" person, including the OP, has made clear what their point even is or why they think it's important. There's nothing to argue against.

Nicole said:


You should learn what the word more means. It doesn't mean all.

lupadim said:
You just proved my point, it means the cloth was so tiny they don't even remember

lupadim said:
Isn't that what you are doing by contradicting me? Besides, your suggestion about prohibiting men from leaving their home while night is terrible, sexist, biased and stereotypical.

Touchè

Makomonogatari said:
I actually laughed out loud. Pure, unadulterated lupadim logic.

Nicole said:


It's also sarcasm, it's what most of the guys in here have been doing since page 1.

But apparently when I do it, it's sexist. When you lot do it, it's 'telling women to take more caution'.

lupadim said:
And the best part is that no one can prove it wrong

lupadim said:
You just proved my point, it means the cloth was so tiny they don't even remember

JamalKing said:

Your logic is ridiculous. I'm going to follow the advice of Greg King "Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you to his level and beat you with experience."

I truly hope any women you encounter in life are safe. After all anything YOU do to them will be THEIR fault right?

Nicole said:
And also, let's be truthful, what I said wasn't sexist, I'm telling men to be more cautious after all, the vast majority don't want to rape someone, but there is always that chance you know, if they walk into a dark alley and see some girl there, who knows what could happen>.

JamalKing said:
http://www.thisisnotaninvitationtorapeme.co.uk/dress

JamalKing said:
http://www.thisisnotaninvitationtorapeme.co.uk/dress

Website said:
Women are often judged on the basis of the way they present themselves, as though the presence of a bra or a subtler shade of lipstick might have made all the difference between an uneventful occasion, and one on which a sexual assault took place.

The assumption that such choices can lead to rape – that clothes can speak for women who say no – are ludicrous and extremely damaging.

KentoBento said:
Never-mind. I guess I'll stay. Just for you, Nicole.

That right there is sexist.

Although, she brings a valid point. If you're feeling the urge go stick your doodle in between two pillows instead of trying to rape a female.

Nicole said:
I'm so happy your staying.

And it's not sexist, can you please reply without having an emotional attachment. I'm merely stating that if you go outside at a night as a man you are partially responsible for your decision to rape someone, and no that is no me blaming the rapist or anything like that, this is merely me trying to make men be more cautious about what they do when they go out or drink alcohol.

Nicole said:


I'm so happy your staying.

And it's not sexist, can you please reply without having an emotional attachment. I'm merely stating that if you go outside at a night as a man you are partially responsible for your decision to rape someone, and no that is no me blaming the rapist or anything like that, this is merely me trying to make men be more cautious about what they do when they go out or drink alcohol.

lupadim said:
You are sexist, some rapes are made by women and I highly doubt all the rapes are made by drunk men (irony, they aren't definitely)

Nicole said:
I'm in no way suggesting that all rapes are done by drunk men, merely stating that if men were more taught to be more cautious beforehand, we'd cut down on the number of rapes.

lupadim said:
In no way I blame the victim when they are raped; I am just saying that the fact some women wear little to no clothes end up HELPING with the possibility of being chosen by a rapist

lupadim said:
And prohibiting them from drinking alcohol is the solution? I highly support the prohibition of alcohol (making it illegal), but not because of that. Cutting down alcohol is not the way to go.

kami_desu said:

But prohibition will only lead to more problems. We gotta learn from history.

Nicole said:
Oh wait...most muslim countries have the worst record and laws in the world for rape.

JD2411 said:
Yet the majority of muslim countries have lower rape rates than Canada, the US and Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

lupadim said:
They will eventually fix themselves and we will have a society that is way more superior than the one we have today. Alcohol is primitive, just as killing and raping.

Shiratori99 said:

I'm repeating myself, but if even 1 rape is being prevented by teaching women to be cautious the policy is a success already.

Shiratori99 said:

You just can't (or don't want to) understand the point of this argument.

lupadim said:
And prohibiting them from drinking alcohol is the solution? I highly support the prohibition of alcohol (making it illegal), but not because of that. Cutting down alcohol is not the way to go.

Makomonogatari said:
The best part is that you somehow actually exist.

JD2411 said:
Yet the majority of muslim countries have lower rape rates than Canada, the US and Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

lupadim said:
CANADA? WUT? Completely fake, wikipedia as always. It states that "one every 17 women is raped in Canada", which is obviously false

geezdad said:
This comment right here.

http://i.minus.com/iBEwT7tEC0X2B.gif

JD2411 said:
Yet the majority of muslim countries have lower rape rates than Canada, the US and Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

Makomonogatari said:
my boi right here

JamalKing said:
I like Nicole's logic.

Most rapes are perpetrated by men. Most victims are women.

Solution 1.
Tell women what happened to them was their fault and if they didn't drink so much it wouldn't have happened. Police them into wearing "suitable" clothing, infringing on their human rights.

Solution 2.
Educate men about how to treat women from a young age, making sure that they know that no means no. After all consensual sex is great sex, take it from me. Solution 2 infringes on nobody's human rights.

Which seems like the better course of action? I fully expect people to disregard logic and apply idiocy but it would be nice if they didn't.

Makomonogatari said:
That actually strikes me as a surprisingly low estimate.

KentoBento said:
Can we just ignore this guy?

1. Obvious it's an alt.
2. The insults aren't necessary because it is a discussion.
3. What?

JadeQuetzal said:


Maybe I have not made my point clear enough. I'll spell this out in fewer words...

You are NOT teaching women to be cautious, you are teaching them to be scared to report rape. CONGRATS!

JadeQuetzal said:

No, I don't AGREE with the point of it. I don't feel that it is achieving what I think OP intends it to achieve. I've been there, ok? I've BEEN raped. I've BEEN the victim. I've BEEN told countless times that I probably brought it on. Your whole point is that guilting rape victims will somehow help the situation. I HAVE LIVED IT. I have lived through the crime, the aftermath, the judgment, the doubt, the fear, the condescension. I can't even count how many women I know who were raped. Women and a couple men that probably wouldn't have even told me if they didn't already know I was. I have a cousin who was raped. My best friend was too in a similar situation to my own (actually the reason we became so close). I have a little girl and you could not ever imagine the level of fear I have that something may ever happen to her. My mind is constantly, and against my wishes, on that subject trying to think of the best way to raise her to keep her safe from similar situations. Telling ME that my own actions brought it on will do HER no good!!! How the fuck is that supposed to keep MY sweet little girl from being raped!? Somehow trying to berate me will help her? How does this make sense to you? In my own case I actually was weak enough to believe the bullshit coming out of the mouths of ignorant fools like yourself for years. I actually felt like it was somehow my fault for many years. I hated myself, constantly thought about killing myself, day in and day out. Tell me how living that kind of life helps the victim or helps other women learn to be cautious? Because the only thing that helped me was when I started to understand just how insane it was to place any blame on a rape victim.

Almost EVERY damn rape victim feels they are somehow to blame, or that they made some decision along the line that lead to it. You are NOT doing anyone any favors. You are not telling rape victims anything that they haven't already thought about in great depth. Do you really think ANY rape victim is going to read or hear comments like this and think "oh well gosh darn it... I never thought about it like that... huh... they have a point... well... they taught me a valuable lesson." Even when we can finally convince ourselves that we shouldn't blame ourselves, that feeling of guilt NEVER goes away. You really don't understand this topic at all, as you really seem to think you all are doing rape victims a favor by pointing out what they could have or should have done different, as though they'd never thought of it. There is almost nothing in the world that you can tell a rape victim that we have not heard already... that we have not considered or perhaps believe.

There was a thread a while back that was along the lines of "how to decrease rape". While there was also a good bit of conflict in it, there were actually some useful posts that did outline problems in society and with individual behavior that could be addressed to help decrease incidents of rape. THAT kind of thread helps. Bashing victims does squat.

Sorry if I come off harsh here, but I'm losing my cool here at the thought that there are actually people so blindly self righteous that they somehow think making things WORSE for a rape victim will somehow HELP them. So few rape victims will speak up for this exact reason. I'm sick of it, and I want my daughter to grow up in a world where she is NOT afraid to stand up for herself because of jackasses that would punish her for it. It enrages me because I know there are victims reading these threads that are doubting themselves once again because of these comments.

Nicole said:


Ignoring people because they don't agree with you?

Nicole said:
So basically, what people are saying is.

If you don't want to get raped, don't drink ever, don't go out at night, never meet new people and never wear skimpy clothes.


What you want to do is take away any kind of freedom that women have by blaming them for when a man can't control himself.

RandomChampion said:


This is literally not what is being said by most if not all people (including OP)

Xybirk said:
I can't help but feel like this thread is a continuation of the feminism thread.

Nicole said:


This is unimportant, the solution to stopping a huge amount of rapes has already been decided, we just stop men from drinking alcohol or going out at night.

Seems perfectly fair to me.

All in the name of caution of course.

JamalKing said:
Or being within 30m of a women without their express written permission

Nicole said:


This is unimportant, the solution to stopping a huge amount of rapes has already been decided, we just stop men from drinking alcohol or going out at night.

Seems perfectly fair to me.

All in the name of caution of course.

Nicole said:


This is unimportant, the solution to stopping a huge amount of rapes has already been decided, we just stop men from drinking alcohol or going out at night.

Seems perfectly fair to me.

All in the name of caution of course.

Shiratori99 said:
Banning alcohol is a good idea. Will never happen though. So in general people should be taught to not get drunk enough that they snap or pass out.