Attack on Titan
biggest flaw?
| Biggest flaw was entire anime. I still don't get it why people are/were so excited about this anime, I even didn't like the ending, it was big mess. Answering the question - I didn't like Eren had no proper talk with Mikasa, of course they had no time for it for some reason. |
| I think the issue isn't the ending itself, but rather that season 4 is a mess of contradictions and flaws: 1- The descendants of Ymir must be exterminated because people are afraid of Titans. But it is also said Marley must hurry to conquer the island because Titans are becoming obsolete. It feels like it's only a matter of time before people turning into giants is no longer a big deal. Fine, they have the Founding Titan. But what would the island gain from activating it, if in the next hour they could be annihilated by bombardment? 2- People are trying to find some definitive solution... at first it felt like they meant the Titan problem. But sometimes it sounds like they are trying to find a definitive solution for war itself. That is definitely not going to be achieved by Eren's solution, which only addresses the Titan problem (and even that is becoming less relevant, according to point 1). 3- Ymir's Paths mechanics and the Titans' powers are never clarified. Since it's a mystery, the show uses them as weak plot devices. 4- The idea of determinism in Eren’s story undermines the theme of freedom, which is central to the series. 5- The whole thing with Eren happens because the island's government is completely incompetent, forcing him to take action. Armin, Pixis, and Hange are the biggest disappointments. Hange seemed to stop experiments and new research about Titans; the island could have followed Armin's plan to take down military bases around the world (an idea which is never mentioned again). Most solutions mentioned in the fourth season are treated as "temporary," which brings us back to point 2. Temporary for what? 6- Armin's final dialogue with Eren is just the last straw. I also feel like the fourth season is devoid of any real moral or meaning. At the start of the series, kids are dreaming about freedom and a better place. From seasons 1 to 3 they struggle to achieve it. Then they find out the real world is just bigger than the island — with the same flaws. From my perspective, I just watched 16 episodes + 12 episodes + 2 movies only to arrive at the same conclusion as season 3. Yes, war has many sides. Yes, there is no end to wars. Because when people can't reach an agreement, they will resort to violence — especially if their survival is at stake. I feel like this is a very shallow message for a series of 90 episodes. |
Reply to keinboesewicht
@phanyx7
imo:
1. titans are becoming obsolete against the modern weapons. that doesnt mean that a titan cant crush a person in one second. so people have all the right to still be scared of them
2. eren knew he wasnt going to achieve never ending world peace. but after trying many different outcomes he decided to at least make it that his friends dont have to go to war again.
3. the paths are all meeting at one point, which is ymir. the common ancestor of all the eldia, who was the first to hold the titan power. makes perfect sense to me.
4. the ideas of determinism and freedom are deeply interwoven with each other. so for the series to adress one without even touching the other would be very shallow writing. aot is a series of many conflicts and this one is another example.
5. hange stopped experimenting because she got called to war, lol. her fascination for the titans was still there though.
and obviously paradis couldve just destroyed military bases, but it is filled with people that like eren are full of hatred and xenophobia. (which is very representative of our world).
armins and erens dialogue was fine and very fitting for what both of them have done. i honestly wouldnt even have minded if they didnt change it for the anime. armin thanking eren for becoming a mass murderer for their sakes, shows the twistedness of their deep friendship and opposing world views. and honestly sometimes people dont find the best words, even armin is just a human
ill give you that the message couldve been brought across in less episodes, but taking time to flesh out characters and stories isnt necessarily a bad thing. in this case it made me really invested in them and by the end it left a really deep impact on me. but i understand that this is not the case for everyone
imo:
1. titans are becoming obsolete against the modern weapons. that doesnt mean that a titan cant crush a person in one second. so people have all the right to still be scared of them
2. eren knew he wasnt going to achieve never ending world peace. but after trying many different outcomes he decided to at least make it that his friends dont have to go to war again.
3. the paths are all meeting at one point, which is ymir. the common ancestor of all the eldia, who was the first to hold the titan power. makes perfect sense to me.
4. the ideas of determinism and freedom are deeply interwoven with each other. so for the series to adress one without even touching the other would be very shallow writing. aot is a series of many conflicts and this one is another example.
5. hange stopped experimenting because she got called to war, lol. her fascination for the titans was still there though.
and obviously paradis couldve just destroyed military bases, but it is filled with people that like eren are full of hatred and xenophobia. (which is very representative of our world).
armins and erens dialogue was fine and very fitting for what both of them have done. i honestly wouldnt even have minded if they didnt change it for the anime. armin thanking eren for becoming a mass murderer for their sakes, shows the twistedness of their deep friendship and opposing world views. and honestly sometimes people dont find the best words, even armin is just a human
ill give you that the message couldve been brought across in less episodes, but taking time to flesh out characters and stories isnt necessarily a bad thing. in this case it made me really invested in them and by the end it left a really deep impact on me. but i understand that this is not the case for everyone
| @keinboesewicht I get your point, thanks for taking the time to reply. I don't think we will come to an agreement: you liked it, I didn’t. But I do think we can gain by exchanging perspectives. 1 – Indeed! Prejudice would never end. It might never end in our world, and no one here can become a Titan. I don't think people could coexist peacefully like in Marley. But we're talking about the island. Would a nation attack them just because they are scary — fully knowing they would die? I think it would come to a stalemate, much like our world with nukes. The island would, of course, have to invest in technology and stay on par with the rest. Otherwise, maybe even the Rumbling might become obsolete (would the Colossal Titans survive nukes?). 2 – I'm not criticizing Eren! Let me make myself perfectly clear: I have nothing against Eren deciding to do what he does. From my perspective, what led him to make that decision is that, after waiting for a long while, there wasn’t a single concrete proposal to save his island. No one seemed to know what they were doing. He was afraid and frustrated. Afraid of sacrificing people close to him, and of seeing his island destroyed. Frustrated by the outer world, which was just as unfair and cruel as his home. What I’m criticizing here is not Eren, but the other characters. Proposals that might have reached the same temporary solution as Eren’s: A – Destroying the military bases; B – Activating the Rumbling to buy time and improve the island’s technology to be on par with the others, while also reaching diplomatic agreements; C – Maybe not even activating the Rumbling, but declaring that they could do it, and choosing not to. They could also expose Marley’s ruthless exploitation of other countries and villainize them. Maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn’t. Either way, Eren could simply activate the Rumbling as a worst-case scenario. Many characters say these are just “temporary” solutions, which is my main point: temporary solution to what? To war? Sure — but there is no permanent solution to war. 3 – I agree with you, that part does make sense and it’s mentioned before. What I meant was how Titan powers that were never explained earlier in the story suddenly solve problems. It can be justified since no one knows the full extent of Titan powers, but I think that’s a serious issue in storytelling, and it’s a downside for me. Examples: A – Ymir being able to change the biology of Eldians; B – The Attack Titan being capable of seeing the future; C – Eren as Founding Titan being able to bring everyone into that dream world and speak telepathically; D – Only royal blood could order Ymir, but then Eren convinces her to aid him. (That’s not necessarily a problem, but breaking a rule they themselves established — without even showing an actual conversation on screen — was a turn-off.) 4 – I agree that questions like “Are we even free?” and “Are we making our own choices, or are we just part of a greater game of nations?” are great. Armin asking Eren that is one of the best parts. What I meant is that the power of changing choices, while never finding a single solution, makes everyone’s efforts feel meaningless. Of course, we could say Eren had just gone mad by that point, or was too incompetent to change things. He himself calls himself an idiot — who am I to deny it? 5A – Hange had 3–4 years before the start of season 4. What progress did they make? Nothing outside of the technological advancements Zeke’s engineers brought to the island. Did they list possibilities, like destroying military bases? Did they send spies after capturing ships (beyond the one expedition)? Maybe — but it’s not shown. I felt like Armin didn’t live up to expectations. Erwin would have organized, given instructions, made everyone feel like he knew what he was doing — even if he didn’t. I really missed a leadership like Erwin’s in season 4. It would have made everything better: seeing them try everything at their disposal, and then, sure, after all else fails, Eren goes and does what he thought was best. 5B – Yes, people would still not like them. But would they be capable of launching an attack on the island, without proper military personnel and equipment? They would have to rebuild. And that would give the island time. The idea would be to reach a scale where attacking would mean mutual destruction. We live in such a world nowadays, with nukes ironically forcing a diplomatic approach. 5C – I agree with you! Eren and Armin’s dialogue made sense for what the series became — which I didn’t like. That’s the reason I didn’t bother to elaborate this one. 5D – As for the screen time of the series, yes, it’s not a problem to extend it if you still have a message to pass to your audience. But would you agree the denser, the better? I really love fairy tales for children: they are extremely succinct, and extremely educative. Approximately: 90 episodes × 20 minutes = 30 hours. As an avid reader, I can’t help but think about what I could have gained by reading some books in that same time. Let me be clear: this is an extremely personal view. I’m not saying people should try to optimize their time or anything. It’s just how I like to compare things. |
| Indeed! I watched the show back in 2013 and came back to watch again when season 3 was released. Only now am I watching the ending. So after 12 years, it deserves a bit of motivation to discuss. Plus, nothing’s better than a discussion to learn a different perspective! I don't think there is much to discuss, though. I understand your points, even though I do not agree with them. And I think the opposite is also true. Just pointing out: I also do not agree with Eren. What I don't have a problem with is his character making this decision. I don't think it was out of character, even though his reasoning could have been shown a bit more clearly. Thanks for replying again. |
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