(Spoiler) Why are they helping them?

Offline

Mar 2020

9

SparCy said:

Yunusepln said:
So I don't understand, you are killing all your brothers and it's as if the whole world will live happily when you kill the saint. You will remain monster demons in everyone's eyes, and eventually you will be hunted. The ones you help will dry up your lineage one by one. You don't need to be super-intelligent to understand this, I don't understand why these character-deficient people are still helping marle, the real devil country of this universe. Ending the war is a story like world peace or something. Except for the island of Paradis, marley and other countries were killing each other, but just because the power potential of paradis is high, they are declared a common devil and tried to be destroyed. Our traitors are putting butter on the bread, good job, keep it up.

Simple cause mass genocide is wrong. Armin and that lot thought eren would use a few titans to show what the power could do and not hurt many people. But instead he is gonna destroy everyone but paradise. And that is not what armin and the others think is right. So they want to stop him. To save as many people as they can including eren from himself.

Of course, genocide is a bad thing. but what will happen after you stop the eren? Will everyone say, "Okay, we won't fight you because eren is dead"? They will attack again in 100 years at the latest, and this time they will come to destroy the Eldians. At this point, Eren had two options. either its own people would be massacred or the main continent would be massacred. Eren chose option 2

Mar 24, 2022 3:01 PM

#5

SparCy

Offline

Jun 2021

1399

Yunusepln said:

SparCy said:

Simple cause mass genocide is wrong. Armin and that lot thought eren would use a few titans to show what the power could do and not hurt many people. But instead he is gonna destroy everyone but paradise. And that is not what armin and the others think is right. So they want to stop him. To save as many people as they can including eren from himself.

Of course, genocide is a bad thing. but what will happen after you stop the eren? Will everyone say, "Okay, we won't fight you because eren is dead"? They will attack again in 100 years at the latest, and this time they will come to destroy the Eldians. At this point, Eren had two options. either its own people would be massacred or the main continent would be massacred. Eren chose option 2

They aren’t thinking in the long run rn. They are thinking of a short term solution that would end all there problems for now. There is not true way to end this unless one side is completely annihilated, which armin and others don’t want as they want ideal peace ( which isn’t a thing). There will always be people that don’t want what you want and thus continues the cycle of hatred. Theres nothing wrong in what they are doing in a sense that they don’t want people to die but in the long run, yes it will come back to bite them. There in no right answer in this situation ether one side would win, or nether will. Just cause they are the trying to do something doesn’t mean it is the right thing.

Mar 24, 2022 3:04 PM

#6

ShutUpMiki

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Dec 2020

3

#Erensupportteam

Mar 24, 2022 3:07 PM

#7

Darkness___

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Jul 2016

3

Because ultimately, genocide is wrong

Yes, in the grand scheme of things, Eren wanted to destroy the world that looks down on his people and oppressed them for decades, but genocide is wrong in the end, innocent people are getting caught up in this massacre, ones who didn't even hate or discriminate against the people of Paradis, they were just "born on the other side of the wall"

Stopping genocide is ultimately the most moral solution in this situation, the Alliance are following their morals to fight against it even tho it is ultimately in their favour, and stopping it will most likely only result into more people hating the Eldians

But there's also the possibility that people will see them as the heroes who stopped the Rumbling and saved lives, thus allowing a chance at peace talks. Yes, it seems like a thin sliver of hope, but it's far more humane than erasing the entire world who opposed you

Not to mention, even if Eren was to succeed and destroy all humanity outside the walls, there's already a spark of conflict inside the walls between those who support Eren and the Yaegarists and those who see this as unnecessary bloodshed or even lost loved ones as a result on the Rumbling initiation, which in retrospect, will start a new cycle of hate but this time amongst people of the same race

I think Erwin summed it best, "Humanity will never stop fighting itself, until it shrinks to a size of one or fewer"

Mar 24, 2022 3:08 PM

#8

MeVike

Offline

Mar 2020

1407

Yunusepln said:

SparCy said:

Simple cause mass genocide is wrong. Armin and that lot thought eren would use a few titans to show what the power could do and not hurt many people. But instead he is gonna destroy everyone but paradise. And that is not what armin and the others think is right. So they want to stop him. To save as many people as they can including eren from himself.

Of course, genocide is a bad thing. but what will happen after you stop the eren? Will everyone say, "Okay, we won't fight you because eren is dead"? They will attack again in 100 years at the latest, and this time they will come to destroy the Eldians. At this point, Eren had two options. either its own people would be massacred or the main continent would be massacred. Eren chose option 2

They want peace now, while they’re still alive and they’re not really thinking about the future beyond that. Let’s say they support Eren and Eren kills everyone else, do you think eldians will live in peace happily ever after? No. Humans will always want war because of their desires. Just like there’ll stlll be war with other countries and Marley after they stop Eren, there’ll still be conflict within the eldians after Eren kills everyone else. War is something humans can’t stay away from.

𝘚𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘤𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘮𝘺 𝘦𝘺𝘦𝘴, 𝘐 𝘤𝘢𝘯’𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘦.

I'm level

on mal-badges. View my badges.

Mar 24, 2022 3:08 PM

#9

Shikhxrghh

Offline

Mar 2022

227

Yunusepln said:

SparCy said:

Simple cause mass genocide is wrong. Armin and that lot thought eren would use a few titans to show what the power could do and not hurt many people. But instead he is gonna destroy everyone but paradise. And that is not what armin and the others think is right. So they want to stop him. To save as many people as they can including eren from himself.

Of course, genocide is a bad thing. but what will happen after you stop the eren? Will everyone say, "Okay, we won't fight you because eren is dead"? They will attack again in 100 years at the latest, and this time they will come to destroy the Eldians. At this point, Eren had two options. either its own people would be massacred or the main continent would be massacred. Eren chose option 2

why don't you get that you aren't supposed to speak facts here damn it??

Mar 24, 2022 3:11 PM

#10

official_brown

Offline

Jan 2021

2392

Idk why people think that mass genocide is a good option.

Plus Eren is wiping out humanity just like they originally thought Titans were doing. Eren is nothing more than a selfish Titan doing what he wants to do while not caring about his friends’ wants.

Nor do I think that wiping out the Eldians/Paradis is a good option, both are wrong. I still want Eren to win in the story but there had to be more than 2 options.

The right mindset when watching an anime is hoping that it will break your top 10

Mar 24, 2022 3:13 PM

#11

Offline

Mar 2020

9

SparCy said:

Yunusepln said:

Of course, genocide is a bad thing. but what will happen after you stop the eren? Will everyone say, "Okay, we won't fight you because eren is dead"? They will attack again in 100 years at the latest, and this time they will come to destroy the Eldians. At this point, Eren had two options. either its own people would be massacred or the main continent would be massacred. Eren chose option 2

They aren’t thinking in the long run rn. They are thinking of a short term solution that would end all there problems for now. There is not true way to end this unless one side is completely annihilated, which armin and others don’t want as they want ideal peace ( which isn’t a thing). There will always be people that don’t want what you want and thus continues the cycle of hatred. Theres nothing wrong in what they are doing in a sense that they don’t want people to die but in the long run, yes it will come back to bite them. There in no right answer in this situation ether one side would win, or nether will. Just cause they are the trying to do something doesn’t mean it is the right thing.

just like you said. they are thinking about this moment. there is no correct answer. but my excitement has faded quite a bit.

Mar 24, 2022 3:15 PM

#12

SparCy

Offline

Jun 2021

1399

Yunusepln said:

SparCy said:

They aren’t thinking in the long run rn. They are thinking of a short term solution that would end all there problems for now. There is not true way to end this unless one side is completely annihilated, which armin and others don’t want as they want ideal peace ( which isn’t a thing). There will always be people that don’t want what you want and thus continues the cycle of hatred. Theres nothing wrong in what they are doing in a sense that they don’t want people to die but in the long run, yes it will come back to bite them. There in no right answer in this situation ether one side would win, or nether will. Just cause they are the trying to do something doesn’t mean it is the right thing.

just like you said. they are thinking about this moment. there is no correct answer. but my excitement has faded quite a bit.

don’t worry. This is just the calm before the storm. It will build up again when the movie/part3 or what ever they are gonna do gets adapted.

Mar 24, 2022 3:19 PM

#13

Offline

Mar 2020

9

Darkness___ said:
Because ultimately, genocide is wrong

Yes, in the grand scheme of things, Eren wanted to destroy the world that looks down on his people and oppressed them for decades, but genocide is wrong in the end, innocent people are getting caught up in this massacre, ones who didn't even hate or discriminate against the people of Paradis, they were just "born on the other side of the wall"

Stopping genocide is ultimately the most moral solution in this situation, the Alliance are following their morals to fight against it even tho it is ultimately in their favour, and stopping it will most likely only result into more people hating the Eldians

But there's also the possibility that people will see them as the heroes who stopped the Rumbling and saved lives, thus allowing a chance at peace talks. Yes, it seems like a thin sliver of hope, but it's far more humane than erasing the entire world who opposed you

Not to mention, even if Eren was to succeed and destroy all humanity outside the walls, there's already a spark of conflict inside the walls between those who support Eren and the Yaegarists and those who see this as unnecessary bloodshed or even lost loved ones as a result on the Rumbling initiation, which in retrospect, will start a new cycle of hate but this time amongst people of the same race

I think Erwin summed it best, "Humanity will never stop fighting itself, until it shrinks to a size of one or fewer"

it happened anyway. The outcome of the war seems to be bad for both sides.

Mar 24, 2022 3:24 PM

#14

Offline

Mar 2020

9

SparCy said:

Yunusepln said:

SparCy said:

Yunusepln said:

SparCy said:

Yunusepln said:
So I don't understand, you are killing all your brothers and it's as if the whole world will live happily when you kill the saint. You will remain monster demons in everyone's eyes, and eventually you will be hunted. The ones you help will dry up your lineage one by one. You don't need to be super-intelligent to understand this, I don't understand why these character-deficient people are still helping marle, the real devil country of this universe. Ending the war is a story like world peace or something. Except for the island of Paradis, marley and other countries were killing each other, but just because the power potential of paradis is high, they are declared a common devil and tried to be destroyed. Our traitors are putting butter on the bread, good job, keep it up.

Simple cause mass genocide is wrong. Armin and that lot thought eren would use a few titans to show what the power could do and not hurt many people. But instead he is gonna destroy everyone but paradise. And that is not what armin and the others think is right. So they want to stop him. To save as many people as they can including eren from himself.

Of course, genocide is a bad thing. but what will happen after you stop the eren? Will everyone say, "Okay, we won't fight you because eren is dead"? They will attack again in 100 years at the latest, and this time they will come to destroy the Eldians. At this point, Eren had two options. either its own people would be massacred or the main continent would be massacred. Eren chose option 2

They aren’t thinking in the long run rn. They are thinking of a short term solution that would end all there problems for now. There is not true way to end this unless one side is completely annihilated, which armin and others don’t want as they want ideal peace ( which isn’t a thing). There will always be people that don’t want what you want and thus continues the cycle of hatred. Theres nothing wrong in what they are doing in a sense that they don’t want people to die but in the long run, yes it will come back to bite them. There in no right answer in this situation ether one side would win, or nether will. Just cause they are the trying to do something doesn’t mean it is the right thing.

just like you said. they are thinking about this moment. there is no correct answer. but my excitement has faded quite a bit.

don’t worry. This is just the calm before the storm. It will build up again when the movie/part3 or what ever they are gonna do gets adapted.

Everyone says aot will continue as a movie. Regardless, it will be a satisfying ending.

Mar 24, 2022 3:27 PM

#15

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Mar 2020

9

official_brown said:
Idk why people think that mass genocide is a good option.

Plus Eren is wiping out humanity just like they originally thought Titans were doing. Eren is nothing more than a selfish Titan doing what he wants to do while not caring about his friends’ wants.

Nor do I think that wiping out the Eldians/Paradis is a good option, both are wrong. I still want Eren to win in the story but there had to be more than 2 options.

Euthanasia may also be an option. makes sense to some extent

Mar 24, 2022 3:30 PM

#16

official_brown

Offline

Jan 2021

2392

Yunusepln said:

official_brown said:
Idk why people think that mass genocide is a good option.

Plus Eren is wiping out humanity just like they originally thought Titans were doing. Eren is nothing more than a selfish Titan doing what he wants to do while not caring about his friends’ wants.

Nor do I think that wiping out the Eldians/Paradis is a good option, both are wrong. I still want Eren to win in the story but there had to be more than 2 options.

Euthanasia may also be an option. makes sense to some extent

No, that’s what I meant when I said 2 options because Euthanasia was Zeke’s plan while genocide is Eren’s plan. I disagree with both of course. I think the story is trying to portray that there is no solution in that world there can only be war. That shouldn’t translate to real life though.

Zeke’s plan was definitely racist though. Both are wrong even though I support the Alliance the most.

The right mindset when watching an anime is hoping that it will break your top 10

Mar 24, 2022 3:38 PM

#17

Squiyn

Offline

Mar 2021

571

It's simple.

Genocide = bad

Mar 24, 2022 3:39 PM

#18

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Mar 2020

9

official_brown said:

Yunusepln said:

Euthanasia may also be an option. makes sense to some extent

No, that’s what I meant when I said 2 options because Euthanasia was Zeke’s plan while genocide is Eren’s plan. I disagree with both of course. I think the story is trying to portray that there is no solution in that world there can only be war. That shouldn’t translate to real life though.

Zeke’s plan was definitely racist though. Both are wrong even though I support the Alliance the most.

I wrote the euthanasia option without specifying zeke. As you said, all options are wrong. so basically everybody in this war is a jackass

Mar 24, 2022 3:57 PM

#19

Darkness___

Offline

Jul 2016

3

Yunusepln said:

Darkness___ said:
Because ultimately, genocide is wrong

Yes, in the grand scheme of things, Eren wanted to destroy the world that looks down on his people and oppressed them for decades, but genocide is wrong in the end, innocent people are getting caught up in this massacre, ones who didn't even hate or discriminate against the people of Paradis, they were just "born on the other side of the wall"

Stopping genocide is ultimately the most moral solution in this situation, the Alliance are following their morals to fight against it even tho it is ultimately in their favour, and stopping it will most likely only result into more people hating the Eldians

But there's also the possibility that people will see them as the heroes who stopped the Rumbling and saved lives, thus allowing a chance at peace talks. Yes, it seems like a thin sliver of hope, but it's far more humane than erasing the entire world who opposed you

Not to mention, even if Eren was to succeed and destroy all humanity outside the walls, there's already a spark of conflict inside the walls between those who support Eren and the Yaegarists and those who see this as unnecessary bloodshed or even lost loved ones as a result on the Rumbling initiation, which in retrospect, will start a new cycle of hate but this time amongst people of the same race

I think Erwin summed it best, "Humanity will never stop fighting itself, until it shrinks to a size of one or fewer"

it happened anyway. The outcome of the war seems to be bad for both sides.

I think that's the point Isayama is trying to make

War is just that vile and cruel. In the end, all sides will come out of it losing something, and its effects will continue to linger for generations to come

Mar 24, 2022 4:54 PM

#20

Andrekrep

Offline

Dec 2020

559

Because they're dumb. Like that's literally the reason why, there's no realistic reason for them to help them so I guess it's just AoT character doing dumb shit out of nowhere

Mar 24, 2022 10:35 PM

#21

Heinrich_Skies

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Jan 2021

51

The survey corps was always about saving humanity, not destroying it

Mar 24, 2022 10:42 PM

#22

dragon2021

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Aug 2021

6

not helping them why

Mar 24, 2022 10:45 PM

#23

Fushi_C

Offline

Mar 2021

40

Yunusepln said:
So I don't understand, you are killing all your brothers and it's as if the whole world will live happily when you kill the saint. You will remain monster demons in everyone's eyes, and eventually you will be hunted. The ones you help will dry up your lineage one by one. You don't need to be super-intelligent to understand this, I don't understand why these character-deficient people are still helping marle, the real devil country of this universe. Ending the war is a story like world peace or something. Except for the island of Paradis, marley and other countries were killing each other, but just because the power potential of paradis is high, they are declared a common devil and tried to be destroyed. Our traitors are putting butter on the bread, good job, keep it up.

Everyone complaining about “Connie and Mikasa killing their friends” as if that’s the problem here. Their friends are trying to commit actual omnicide, turning Paradis into a military dictatorship and trying to restore the old Eldian empire so they can subjugate anybody that they didn’t manage to kill. If people think they should still support their friends in a situation like this then they have a very childish understanding of this story. Or they have the same “it’s okay when we do it” mentality that the story is criticising. Also, unless you support genocide I don't see why anyone would be mad at them for stopping Eren, he's trying to wipe out the entire populace outside the walls! I look at it as them trying to stop greater evil for the benefit of the many rather than trying to kill all of your enemies so you and your people are the last one standing. Either way it's still a grey area and I don't think anybody is wrong in this situation no matter what they choose.

Mar 24, 2022 11:37 PM

#24

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Jan 2016

261

AndreCraft_012 said:
Because they're dumb. Like that's literally the reason why, there's no realistic reason for them to help them so I guess it's just AoT character doing dumb shit out of nowhere

The only one too dumb to understand the nuance in their motivations is you, my friend. Also "opposing near omnicide = dumb" is some great logic right there.
I recommend you read these: https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1498086874472235017
https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1505943639041531905

Mar 24, 2022 11:37 PM

#25

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Jan 2021

1968

Heinrich_Skies said:
The survey corps was always about saving humanity, not destroying it

The Survey Corps were about Freedom and Exploration beyond the walls FOR the people of the walls.
They NEVER stated they 'want to save humanity', they're not heroes. Their whole deal was moving past the walls to know what's out there.The whole concept of the Survey Corps became redundant after the Basement reveal.

Saying they want to save the world because they loved humanity is such a cheap loophole.

Mar 24, 2022 11:42 PM

#26

Andrekrep

Offline

Dec 2020

559

Alvacka97 said:

AndreCraft_012 said:
Because they're dumb. Like that's literally the reason why, there's no realistic reason for them to help them so I guess it's just AoT character doing dumb shit out of nowhere

The only one too dumb too understand the nuance in their motivation is you, my friend.
I recommend you read these: https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1498086874472235017
https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1505943639041531905

The manga extra chapter said the other things. Well honestly Isayama fucked up AoT so much that I'm not sure if that extra chapter can be considered canon or not since everything that happening in that chapter was so out of nowhere

Mar 24, 2022 11:44 PM

#27

Offline

Jan 2021

1968

Alvacka97 said:

AndreCraft_012 said:
Because they're dumb. Like that's literally the reason why, there's no realistic reason for them to help them so I guess it's just AoT character doing dumb shit out of nowhere

The only one too dumb to understand the nuance in their motivations is you, my friend. Also "opposing near omnicide = dumb" is some great logic right there.
I recommend you read these: https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1498086874472235017
https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1505943639041531905

This guy's threads? The Mikasa thread is basically a copypasta at this point. And 80% of it is completely made up. The so called 'nuances' are nonsensical assumptions he's forcing down everyone throats.

Besides, the guy was too chicken to debate saintitchief a couple days ago.

Mar 24, 2022 11:45 PM

#28

Offline

Jan 2016

261

Yunusepln said:
So I don't understand, you are killing all your brothers and it's as if the whole world will live happily when you kill the saint. You will remain monster demons in everyone's eyes, and eventually you will be hunted. The ones you help will dry up your lineage one by one. You don't need to be super-intelligent to understand this, I don't understand why these character-deficient people are still helping marle, the real devil country of this universe. Ending the war is a story like world peace or something. Except for the island of Paradis, marley and other countries were killing each other, but just because the power potential of paradis is high, they are declared a common devil and tried to be destroyed. Our traitors are putting butter on the bread, good job, keep it up.

The whole point of the final arc is about overcoming the cycle of hatred through understanding, as well as teaching the audience how to 'get out of the forest' and not repeat the same mistakes that perpetuate this cycle in the form of a cautionary tale, understanding has already started to be achieved for the alliance, and it'll eventually be achieved with what little remains of the world.
These essays explain everything in detail: https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1498086874472235017
https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1505943639041531905

Mar 24, 2022 11:46 PM

#29

Andrekrep

Offline

Dec 2020

559

Alvacka97 said:

AndreCraft_012 said:
Because they're dumb. Like that's literally the reason why, there's no realistic reason for them to help them so I guess it's just AoT character doing dumb shit out of nowhere

The only one too dumb to understand the nuance in their motivations is you, my friend. Also "opposing near omnicide = dumb" is some great logic right there.
I recommend you read these: https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1498086874472235017
https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1505943639041531905

Probably dumb isn't the correct word, but wishing for the fall of your own hometown is not something that someone would do logically

Mar 24, 2022 11:49 PM

#30

Offline

Jan 2016

261

certifiedbinger said:

Alvacka97 said:

The only one too dumb to understand the nuance in their motivations is you, my friend. Also "opposing near omnicide = dumb" is some great logic right there.
I recommend you read these: https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1498086874472235017
https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1505943639041531905

This guy's threads? The Mikasa thread is basically a copypasta at this point. And 80% of it is completely made up. The so called 'nuances' are nonsensical assumptions he's forcing down everyone throats.

Besides, the guy was too chicken to debate saintitchief a couple days ago.

Refute his points, then. Straw-manning the opponent has never valid in any argument.

Mar 24, 2022 11:51 PM

#31

Offline

Jan 2016

261

certifiedbinger said:

Alvacka97 said:

The only one too dumb to understand the nuance in their motivations is you, my friend. Also "opposing near omnicide = dumb" is some great logic right there.
I recommend you read these: https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1498086874472235017
https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1505943639041531905

This guy's threads? The Mikasa thread is basically a copypasta at this point. And 80% of it is completely made up. The so called 'nuances' are nonsensical assumptions he's forcing down everyone throats.

Besides, the guy was too chicken to debate saintitchief a couple days ago.

"Besides, the guy was too chicken to debate saintitchief a couple days ago"
Oh yeah? That's not i'm seeing here ;)
https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1507234794882617354

Mar 24, 2022 11:52 PM

#32

Offline

Jan 2021

1968

Alvacka97 said:

certifiedbinger said:

This guy's threads? The Mikasa thread is basically a copypasta at this point. And 80% of it is completely made up. The so called 'nuances' are nonsensical assumptions he's forcing down everyone throats.

Besides, the guy was too chicken to debate saintitchief a couple days ago.

Refute his points, then. Straw-manning the opponent has never valid in any argument.

That's the thing. Refuting would be an option if they weren't beyond the realm of reality. He makes certain good, but rather obvious points, and then completely factualises his take on the story.
I cannot refute something a person LITERALLY made up lmao. Stop with the 'opponent' bs, this isn't twitter, keyboard warrior.

Mar 24, 2022 11:58 PM

#33

Offline

Jan 2016

261

certifiedbinger said:

Alvacka97 said:

Refute his points, then. Straw-manning the opponent has never valid in any argument.

That's the thing. Refuting would be an option if they weren't beyond the realm of reality. He makes certain good, but rather obvious points, and then completely factualises his take on the story.
I cannot refute something a person LITERALLY made up lmao. Stop with the 'opponent' bs, this isn't twitter, keyboard warrior.

And i'm asking you, what did he make up?. It's not that hard just tell me.

Also, holy shit is saint an ignorant clown! https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1507247306067824679

Mar 25, 2022 12:07 AM

#34