I just created this account just to ask this question because i genuinely want an answer from fans.
After watching up to the latest episode 10 traitor, I have been thinking about what could have been done differently about the situations the eldians are in, about the discussions of diplomatic talks, and if eren truly had any other options he could have done instead of genocide.
These are some points i want to discuss about (This is not a hate, troll, or flame topic I am genuinely curious about what was something that could have been done different).
1)We will start after season 3 part 2 during the time before the declaration of war.
During this time there were possible chances to have peace talks with the outside world, but Hizuru wanted all the mining resources for themselves which is why they did not help paradis get communications with the outside world.
In addition to that if it was possible for them to actually have peace talks with other countries they would have done so during the 4 years before the declaration of war. But with the declaration actually took place we can see that hange, armin could not get the world to listen to the story of paradis.
The other way was to cause the mini rumbling, but the only keys to the power were either historia or zeke. Here we can see that eren would never sacrifice historia because she is someone important to him, because she would have to become a titan like a short life and suffer, have kids who would also suffer, which would completely go against eren's beliefs of protecting those close to him.
So the only possible option was zeke but we already know that zeke wanted to implement his euthanization plan, so he wouldnt have helped with the mini rumbling.
The point about the mini rumbling after eren absorbs zeke will be talked about later below.
2)Next is during season 4 part 1 at marley
We see that eren has lived in marley for some time and he understands that not everyone is bad in the outside world. However, this is an IMPORTANT point before eren attacks he patiently listens to make sure what are the intentions of the world. There you can see willy tybur declare war on paradis with the big shots from the rest of the world there fully supporting him with tears of joy (An important point is that this is also a genocide a smaller scale one but still genocide).
So that means with or without eren attacking marley the entire WORLD plans to slaughter and genocide paradis. which means at least by this point peace talks werent an option because of willy tybur. Another point we can see the world even have a fearful mindset during the dinner party willy had the night before where gabi and falco were serving drinks they were looked at as devils even though they wer just children so you can see the unchanging mindset of the people and keep in mind these are the bigshots that control the world itself not just random common people so these are the peace talks would have happened with
But now eren does attack which solidifies their fear and hatred for paradis even more which leaves no peace talks left on the table.
3) Now lets go back to paradis after the attack on marley
Hear we see hange ask eren in the jail cell why he did what he did, and eren asks hange to give her a better plan but she gives none proving that the government (The old guys like pixiis) and armin and hange have no plan at all.
So with no one giving him a realistic plan eren escapes and does his own thing.
Up to this point we see that that the world has fimrly shown they will see paradis as an island of devils.
4) Now lets move on to season 4 part 2
Here lets talk about the main point everyone points back to could have been done eren absorbs zeke and could have done a mini rumbling. That plan is supposed make the people become scared and give paradis some time to get their military and technology to modern standards so they can protect themselves.
In my opinion this is way too idealistic as the mini rumbling would only increase the fear and resentment the people have for paradis because they will now know that the rumbling is real and not a bluff which would unite them even more against paradis. and if they killed only the marleyan forces during the mini rumbling they will only fear it more which completely contradicts the mindset hange and armin had peace with the world is possible
Another point lets say the mini rumbling did happen and their technology caught up, does that mean they are safe, no just because they have titans and better technology does not mean they are safe as they are only a small island against the entire world which fears them they are too few in number to put up a fight. So they will die.
adding to that with zeke gone (I think? i am anime only) the only person left is historia which mean her and her children who are innocent and suffer and will live short lives which eren will not accept (remember most of the bigshots in paradis except pixes wanted to sacrifice historia for their safety).
So thats my take on why the biggest argument of the mini rumbling isnt a viable option.
5) Now eren has started the rumbling (world genocide which is much larger compared to paradis genocide).
Disclaimer before i continue i am not supporting genocide (Cmon guys this is common sense everyone knows genocide is wrong, but this is work of fiction to look at the beliefs and viewpoints of both sides without any consequences) nor am i supporting eren's plan, as this is only a work of fiction you can see the viewpoints of both sides and understand the reasoning in their decisions.
I know they are people who just want to see a genocide because it looks cool, but the reason those people think that it is because it is a work of fiction so at least give your opinion but dont insult anyone who comments on this with anyone who supports eren's actions and call them genocidal maniacs.
And there is also another group like me who does not support eren's actions (obiviously because of genocide is overkill) but do not support armin and the alliance (They have not provided me a plan B if they stopped eren what would they do after that to keep paradis safe, We will discuss about it further down.)
Where was I? Oh yeah the rumbling started,
Now we go to the part where armin and the others betray eren, because genocide is wrong. This is just my opinion dont take this the wrong way but I cant connect to the motivation of armin and the others which is their morality. For morally right thing they would commit the most absolute betrayal against their homeland, their people, they killed their friends, and would abandon everyone they care about for the rest of the world they never met and who hate them because its right.
(One thing I want everyone to think about is put yourself in an paradis citizens place, as this would mean if armin succeeds as a paradis citizen you will be slaughtered by the world because you are an eldian, your moral conscience would not want genocide, but your realistic conscience would accept it (maybe? i dont know for sure but most people would want to live right?) because they want themselves and their family to live and not be slaughtered.
We went a little bit off topic, now lets look at a what if scenario (I spoiled myself on some future events in the manga)
What manga readers might know is that Armin and the others kill eren (I have no idea how it came to that point when they were saying they will try to talk him down) but at that point 80% of the population is killed.
Here is where the what if comes into place lets say somehow armin and the alliance was able to kill eren before the colossal titans were able to get to the mainland and no one died and the world was saved would they be considered world heroes of course not that would be idealistic thinking, with the founder gone (I think anime only theorizing what would happen if eren died) with it possibly appearing in the future, it would give the entire world the opportunity to slaughter/genocide the paradis island as the rumbling cant happen with the founding titan gone temporarily. So they would die.
The best case scenario paradis would become slaves like marleyan eldians.
Worst case and most possible case mass genocide of the eldian people.
And for anyone asking couldnt gabi, falco, and the commander guy vouch for eldians and tell the world they are human the same as them. For that they are just a minority, realistically their voice would never be heard by the people of the world and be snuffed. And when that happens do you think the commander would protect them know he would just look from the sidelines and watch eldia perish because its not his homeland.
Another point i thought of was that all marleyan eldians would be killed by the world anyway if eren is dead because they would not want marleyan eldians to be born with a child inheriting the founding titan so gabi and falco mission to become "good eldians" is pretty much pointless isnt it/
Just a side note if this what if scenario was actually animated it would absolutely be hilarious because it would become that meme where the marleyan soldier puts his leg over a shackled armin who is on the ground saying "But genocide is bad".
What actually happened is what annoyed me that conveniently 80% of the population was killed so conveniently they were not able to attack paradis as the world did not have resources to fight back which conveniently allowed armin and the others to live their remaining life without any consequence to what they had done because the world was crippled more on this later.
This is where the what if annoys me because armin and the others were striving for this what if scenario so what would they have done if it was a success what were their plans to protect the eldian people after that. Or were they just going to abandon their people and let them be genocide including themselves?
6) The final point I want to touch on is the marleyan side of this avenger alliance. I have heard many people talk about how the people of the world can change their thinking by giving examples of gabi, falco, and that commander guy apologizing to them for seeing them as devils and asking for their help.
I 100% agree with them i love that they understood eldians arent devils they are just normal people. This development is why gabi became one of my favorite characters in AOT. BUT I get this small nagging feeling in the back of my mind would they treat them this nicely if the world genocide didnt happen.
Its like a stuck up guy/girl causing the protagonist pain and suffering (Take malty from rising of the shield hero) but when the protagonist has the upper hand they beg and grovel asking for mercy and foregiveness. It feels slightly like this.
Lets say what if eren told the world he could see the future and that if they declare war he would eradicate 80% of humanity would they change their tune no they would just fear him more. So the reason the alliance (commander guy mainly) is because the rumbling genocide happend. which means they only changed because they felt absolute despair.
7) Finally i would like to talk about two smaller points.
First for the possibility eren could tell the world that he could use the founding power to free all eldians for the curse of ymir (I think he does that in the manga, not sure) so they dont turn into titans (what the world fears is their titan power) and be normal humans so they can live in peace. For that even if he does that and proves that they can no longer turn into titans (i dont know prove it by biting their hands and nothing happens or injecting titan serums and nothing happens) it is highly unlikely they will just welcome them with open arms because they would doubt if they are telling the truth and kill them to be on the safe side, because thats what humans are they destroy anything they fear even if its harmless.
The final point is the 80 years after (Chapter 139.5 I think from what manga readers say)
where paradis is destroyed which proves that the world destroying paradis it is absolute. The little thing that annoys me that the eldians who suffer this cruel fate is the next generation after the people who allowed this to happen (Armin, Mikasa, Jean, Connie) are all dead and resting in peace, if this happened during their lifetime that would have shown the consequences for their actions (What? Eren died for what he had done he faced the consequences, but these guys get to live their lives in peace and then let the next generation of eldians to suffer because of their choices. Again THIS IS JUST MY OPINION).
So thats where we are up to this point so what do you guys think was there any other way they could save all eldians.
Becuase every way i look at it the world destroying paradis is absolute.
a) Four years before the start of season 4 and during all this time they couldnt get peace talks with the world.
b) Even if eren did not attack marley at the start of season 4 part 1 the world was planning to destroy paradis which is a fact you can see with the declaration of war.
c) If the rumbling was stopped in time the world would have taken the chance to destroy paradis because there fears were realized.
d) The world eventually does destroy paradis 80 years later when they no longer have titan powers so they kill eldians for nothing but revenge.
So this is what i want to know what other option did eren have because he could see the future anything else he did would lead to the death of the eldian people so he chose the option where at least his friends had a chance to live long lives by sacrificing himself and dying (Which he know would happen due to his power) which was only able to delay the death of the eldian people.
I have seen many forums where people say eren had other options, I genuinely want to know, I am not being sarcastic, I am not trying to support genocide. I just want to know what eren could have done?
What could have eren done?
Should armin and the others have killed eren without having a plan to save paradis before choosing the morally correct route.
I am sorry for how long this is as this is my very first forum post and wanted to make clear my opinions without offending anyone and causing misunderstandings.
P.S (This is something important I realize after reading so many forums here)
One thing I ask is that you do not insult other commenters and just provide your own opinions. As i have mentioned above this is fiction and there are those who will put comments that support erens actions, while others will deny his. But that doesnt mean people are genocidal maniacs they know it is fiction that why they choose sides similar to how people like to see gore, and seeing something terrible happen to characters they hate because it isnt real it is just fiction. And for those who support eren and hate those who deny his actions please respect their decisions as well as they are entitled to their own opinions and you are entitled to yours.
For those wondering my stance on this is I do not support eren and I understand that for what he does the needs to face the consequences. BUT I cant support armin and the others reason to absolutely betray their home and people and their best friend. I fully support the commander, reiner, annie, gabi, falco, pieck as they have an understandable motivations (I still dont like them for what they did to everyone in previous seasons but they arent hypocrites they know what they did was wrong but they will carry those sins to save the ones they love) to protect the people they care about and fix the mess they started.
Thats why i the ending i wanted the what if scenario where the rumbling stopped (because it would be hilarious) or what i wanted was for reinar or someone from the marley side to kill eren that would make his death acceptable for me as his killer had understandable motivation compared to armin and the others who kill the person they care about, someone they consider thier family because it was morally right.
So tell me after everything I have talked about was their any other choice for eren if so please give an example and explain?
And please be civil and respect each others opinions (which maybe pretty ironic when we are talking human diplomacy talks ha ha).
If you read this entire thing you get my respect and i salute you for your patience and good will for answering.
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