| I AM NOT HERE TO HATE ON CODE GEASS. Now before u start bashing me hear me out. Lelouch's ending was perfect, it completely made sense in the context of his character and It definitely made him a really great character and Protagonist. The dialogue, "The only ones who should kill are those prepared to be killed themselves”, came full circle, However, A show that tackles racism, oppression, violence, hatred and conflict/war, etc ends with one guy sacrificing himself, and the whole world is at peace. Lulu's goal was to secure a future for his sister but in the latest movie(canon or not). She got kidnapped in his absence and was only rescued bc of Lulu. So isn't this probable for the same to happen in the canon TV series where Lulu is absent too? And if it then it means his plan failed, right? Now people may say Lulu did this so that everyone can gather and discuss development for the world instead of constantly waging war which brings me to the question that why didn't Lulu himself tried to reform the nation of Britannia as he was the king now? He could've literally liberated all the countries which were pressed by Brittania and would've tried to establish fair trade and relationships with other countries. Lelouch (being a mastermind as he was depicted throughout the series) could have just simply taken Britannia in a peaceful, good direction after taking power. There was no need for him to depict himself as the ultimate evil after taking the throne and building a bad reputation for himself and looking like a dictator/Tyrant. Lulu could easily work along with Zero(Suzaku) to deconstruct the way Brittania works and give resources to the oppressed nation to develop. I mean this would literally bring the same result and on top of that, he would always be present to protect Nunally. Nunally got kidnapped and would probably be killed(as we know from the alt-universe movie) in absence of Lulu making his whole Requiem absolutely worthless. I didn't understand the 200IQ here tbh. I mean how does it make sense? How does the death of one single guy provides peace for the entire world and presumably for eternity? And even if it was not for eternity it shouldn't bring peace so suddenly at all for the whole world. I find this to be really unrealistic, naive, and idealistic especially for a show which is presumably grounded in reality. Leaving out my other criticism for this show which is quite a lot. The ending was simply not for me and didn't make much sense as a Political drama to me especially after a rewatch. I also don't mind my argument getting debunked bc I don't want to criticize a show just for the sake of criticizing it. Feel free to do so but please be respectful. |
CamelBowDec 17, 2021 11:26 PM
    ═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════  |
| The same way the death of Hitler provided peace to the whole world. Does that answer your question? |
 𝘚𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘤𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘮𝘺 𝘦𝘺𝘦𝘴, 𝘐 𝘤𝘢𝘯’𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘦. |
on MeVike said: No it does not. Death of Hitler only solved WW2 not the conflict and War in the world and this happened in CG. Heck, our world was at the risk of being embroiled in a Nuclear War and many complications happened after WW2 too whereas the Code Geass ending implies that the world has become happy go lucky and everything is completely normal.The same way the death of Hitler provided peace to the whole world. Does that answer your question? kinaaaaaa said: Again the hatred was bc of Lulu's father just like the hatred was towards Hitler instead of each and every citizen in Germany. Lulu can achieve this without dying especially when he has 200IQ.Look, the point is, is not the entire world, it is just the empire. And the end is more metaphorical. And it isn't just "a death", he became the became worse than the worst, and then ending with his life, taking with him all the hatred related to the government. It is obvious that not everyone became good, but again, is more metaphorical than literal. (sorry if my english is bad btw) |
CamelBowDec 17, 2021 8:52 AM
═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════ |
adnan_ said: When the entire hate of the world is focused on one person, and the person dies, people stop and contemplate upon their actions, which leads to temporary peace. The user above me said “in the same way Hitler’s death brought world peace” and I completely agree with itI AM NOT HERE TO HATE ON CODE GEASS. Now before u start bashing me hear me out. Lelouch's ending was perfect, it completely made sense in the context of his character and It definitely made him a really great character and Protagonist. However, A show that tackles racism, oppression, violence, hatred and conflict/war, etc ends with one guy sacrificing himself and the whole world is at peace. Lulu's goal was to secure a future for his sister but in the latest movie(canon or not). She got kidnapped in his absence and was only rescued bc of Lulu. So isn't this probable for the same to happen in the canon TV series too? Now people may say Lulu did this so that everyone can gather and discuss development for the world instead of constantly waging war which brings me to the question that why didn't Lulu himself tried to reform the nation of Britannia as he was the king now? He could've literally liberated all the countries which were pressed by Brittania and would've tried to establish fair trade and relationships with other countries. I mean how does it make sense? How does the death of one single guy provides peace for the entire world and presumably for eternity? I find this to be really unrealistic and idealistic. I also don't mind my argument getting debunked bc I don't want to criticize a show just for the sake of criticizing it. Feel free to do so but please be respectful. |
| If you are from South East Asia, then I request you, when you will start an anime, you search if it is available on Muse Asia and Ani-one Asia, before looking through piracy websites |
Itsumo_Issho said: But the ending makes it out like the world is in complete peace and there's no conflict at all. Lulu thinking that his sacrifice would protect his sister is extremely naive Especially when we take the sequel film that takes place in an alt-universe. BTW Lul does not need to die for world peace.When the entire hate of the world is focused on one person, and the person dies, people stop and contemplate upon their actions, which leads to temporary peace. The user above me said “in the same way Hitler’s death brought world peace” and I completely agree with it |
═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════ |
adnan_ said: The ending implies nothing. It just shows Japan and Brittania making peace. And as for the real world. Tell me, when did world war 3 happen? You’re probably just talking about the Cold War, which wasn’t even a war, but a diplomatic dispute between 2 countries which was eventually solved. Even if they had nuked each other, how many years since the death of Hitler would have passed? Whereas in Code geass we only see the aftermath right after Lelouch’s death (probably around half a year later) So you think everything went all good after decades? No we don’t know that. So yea. Everything was peaceful for years after ww2 as well. MeVike said: No it does not. Death of Hitler only solved WW2 not the conflict and War in the world and this happened in CG. Heck, our world was at the risk of being embroiled in a Nuclear War and many complications happened after WW2 too whereas the Code Geass ending implies that the world has become happy go lucky and everything is completely normal.The same way the death of Hitler provided peace to the whole world. Does that answer your question? As for lelouch, your problem seems to be with his death, thinking why did he die when he could do the same while being alive. So tell me, would people forgive Hitler for what he had done, if he somehow was like “Ok I don’t want war anymore, let’s truce” Assuming he could still go on living and ruling the country, no one would forget all he’d done in the past. The same is with Lelouch. He’s don’t terrible things, he doesn’t think he has the right to live anymore. From a foreign country’s prespective. They’re enemies with Britania and considering Lelouch is its ruler, they’ll always recognize him as evil, because he was the emperor of this cruel empire. From their perspective, him being assassinated, is way more credible than him having a change of heart. Would you choose to do trade with Angela Merkel or Adolf Hitler? There was no place in the world for Lelouch anymore, at least that’s what he thought. His sister taking over and joining “zero” whom the whole world recognized as a hero, everyone knew that peaceful times were coming. |
𝘚𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘤𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘮𝘺 𝘦𝘺𝘦𝘴, 𝘐 𝘤𝘢𝘯’𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘦. |
| Bro for the longest time I've always thought that the ending and Code Geass as a whole is overrated asf. In fact I think its below average at best. Hot take I know. The second season in particular is legitimately one of the worst seasons I have ever seen in all of anime. I further discussed my thoughts in the reddit post I linked below. Feel free to read it if your interested. https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/qfcfbt/code_geass_r2_is_one_of_the_worst_second_seasons/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share |
MeVike said: Well there's a lot among which the Vietnam war was pretty significant. here u go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_1945%E2%80%931989The ending implies nothing. It just shows Japan and Brittania making peace. And as for the real world. Tell me, when did world war 3 happen? You’re probably just talking about the Cold War, which wasn’t even a war, but a diplomatic dispute between 2 countries which was eventually solved. Even if they had nuked each other, how many years since the death of Hitler would have passed? Whereas in Code geass we only see the aftermath right after Lelouch’s death (probably around half a year later) So you think everything went all good after decades? No we don’t know that. So yea. Everything was peaceful for years after ww2 as well. As for lelouch, your problem seems to be with his death, thinking why did he die when he could do the same while being alive. So tell me, would people forgive Hitler for what he had done, if he somehow was like “Ok I don’t want war anymore, let’s truce” Assuming he could still go on living and ruling the country, no one would forget all he’d done in the past. The same is with Lelouch. He’s don’t terrible things, he doesn’t think he has the right to live anymore. From a foreign country’s prespective. They’re enemies with Britania and considering Lelouch is its ruler, they’ll always recognize him as evil, because he was the emperor of this cruel empire. From their perspective, him being assassinated, is way more credible than him having a change of heart. Would you choose to do trade with Angela Merkel or Adolf Hitler? There was no place in the world for Lelouch anymore, at least that’s what he thought. His sister taking over and joining “zero” whom the whole world recognized as a hero, everyone knew that peaceful times were coming. It was indeed a dispute but u know that they were preparing their nukes right? SO if one thing went wrong then u know the whole world would be a wasteland but let's stop about Cold war as it's not the focus here. My problem is after Lulu's death everything went too smoothly and it was indeed implied by Kallen that the world is completely at peace and it was the opposite for our world. By your logic after Lulu's death let's say 1 or 2 years for this argument there already were a bunch of conflicts and war in our world which was non-existent in CG's ending or it was at least implied by that otherwise people won't be saying that lulu brought world peace. I am talking about him taking action before his whole war with his brother. When he defeated his father. He could have easily done that. He should shoulder his sins for the betterment of the world and continue to work for it. As far as I know, countries saw Britannia as an enemy bc they were oppressed by Brittania. If Lulu had freed them and started to have proper relations and trade with them while also providing equipment to develop other countries. I doubt any country would reject him. I mean many countries which were colonies of Britain are in healthy relation wit Britain even tho Britain hardly contributed to other countries' development after their rule over them ended. Yeah, and she got kidnapped in the sequel film which means Lulu failed in his plans, right? Also, Japan continued fighting in WW2 BTW after the death of Hitler. |
CamelBowDec 17, 2021 8:08 AM
═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════ |
| The Cold War was a disputed Disputes can go any way, but they decided to end it peacefully, so nothing really happened. Again, Kallen said things were peaceful now. Keep in mind “NOW”. Doesn’t mean they’re not gonna be peaceful later. We had WW1 which was titled “the war to end all wars” after its end, things were peaceful, but it wasn’t permanent. That’s the thing in code geass as well, they’re not covering decades in the future... they’re talking about the present. Things can always go south so yea. As I said, Lelouch could’ve liberated Japan... and you’re right, he could’ve done it right after he got rid of his parents, but the impact wouldn’t have been the same. Remember how pissed were the resistance knowing that Lelouch was from Brittania and a Prince at that. For them he was no hero, so he devised a plan to make himself the villain and to off himself using his own creation “Zero” and the fugitive Princess that was living in Japan. It makes way more sense in front of the world, for them to make peace with Zero and Nunally than Lelouch, who had lost The trust of his followers. At least that’s how I see it. |
𝘚𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘤𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘮𝘺 𝘦𝘺𝘦𝘴, 𝘐 𝘤𝘢𝘯’𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘦. |
JVFE said: MeVike said: Your arguments don’t make sense, we were not at peace right after the end of WW2 because of Hitler’s death, but because of the fear of nuclear weapons, the fact that Japan continued fighting until Hiroshima and Nagasaki is the proof of that and the reason we don’t have a WW3 until now. Anyway, a lot of wars have started and ended after WW2, you said the the Cold War was not really a war, and yeah, it wasn’t a direct war between USA and URSS, but there were a lot of minor wars linked to it, for example the Vietnam war, that started eleven days after the end of WW2, not even a month of peace.The ending implies nothing. It just shows Japan and Brittania making peace. And as for the real world. Tell me, when did world war 3 happen? You’re probably just talking about the Cold War, which wasn’t even a war, but a diplomatic dispute between 2 countries which was eventually solved. Even if they had nuked each other, how many years since the death of Hitler would have passed? Whereas in Code geass we only see the aftermath right after Lelouch’s death (probably around half a year later) So you think everything went all good after decades? No we don’t know that. So yea. Everything was peaceful for years after ww2 as well. As for lelouch, your problem seems to be with his death, thinking why did he die when he could do the same while being alive. So tell me, would people forgive Hitler for what he had done, if he somehow was like “Ok I don’t want war anymore, let’s truce” Assuming he could still go on living and ruling the country, no one would forget all he’d done in the past. The same is with Lelouch. He’s don’t terrible things, he doesn’t think he has the right to live anymore. From a foreign country’s prespective. They’re enemies with Britania and considering Lelouch is its ruler, they’ll always recognize him as evil, because he was the emperor of this cruel empire. From their perspective, him being assassinated, is way more credible than him having a change of heart. Would you choose to do trade with Angela Merkel or Adolf Hitler? There was no place in the world for Lelouch anymore, at least that’s what he thought. His sister taking over and joining “zero” whom the whole world recognized as a hero, everyone knew that peaceful times were coming. I took ww2 as an example with their war against Germany only and not all fo the countries, because there wasn’t simply Germany and Japan which they fought against. The reason In doing so, is because Japan doesn’t have Hitler in it, that’s why I didn’t include it. Hirohito was not a good comparison. So yea, the only way to make it kind of comparable is to seclude Japan from it. But yea it’s fair to think I might’ve Made a not so correct comparison, yet I couldn’t find any better man than Hitler to use to make a point. |
𝘚𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘤𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘮𝘺 𝘦𝘺𝘦𝘴, 𝘐 𝘤𝘢𝘯’𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘦. |
| It got a lot of pathos and is very emotional, which is good, but it's completely unrealistic and idealistic of course. I'd say it is way overrated but overall a good ending |
MeVike said: The same way the death of Hitler provided peace to the whole world. Does that answer your question? Not only factually untrue (peace to central/northern Europe and north america maybe, and there were huge social tensions still) but completely different context |
Oznerol7 said: yea but that’s the point. Lelouch’s death solved the tension between Britannia and Japan and some other countries, but it’s not wrong to assume that there would still be some tension between Brittania and some other countries that we don’t know of.MeVike said: The same way the death of Hitler provided peace to the whole world. Does that answer your question? Not only factually untrue (peace to central/northern Europe and north america maybe, and there were huge social tensions still) but completely different context |
𝘚𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘤𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘮𝘺 𝘦𝘺𝘦𝘴, 𝘐 𝘤𝘢𝘯’𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘦. |
| U forgot that the supposed peaceful war WW1 was peaceful bc all of the responsibility was put on the shoulder of Germany and the Economy was destroyed after WW1. Not to forget WW1 was one of the main reasons for WW2. So you are saying Lelouch supposedly sacrificed his whole let's say 70 years which he could have used for the betterment of the world just for a glimmer of hope which was not even confirmed to work??? I didn't think Lulu was this dumb. Other countries would have hated him at first bc of the pre-conception they had about Brittania bc of Charles. Lulu could have entirely changed that pre-conception bc of how intelligent he was in these matters. So not clearing the misconception about it but glorifying it is kinda dumb IMO. I don't think it makes sense bc who stopped Zero to work with Lelouch? Lulu could have literally announced a joint rule in Brittania with Zero and therefore. The outer world didn't even know Lulu or that he supported Charles's ideology or not like Lulu's older brothers did. It makes 0 sense for them to think that lulu supports Charles's ideology. So yeah I don't really see the point. 1. Appreciate the co-operation. 2. Even if it's not canon(which I already know) it does not stop it from happening in the canon universe as well. 3. That happens all the time when the new king takes the throne. Lulu is portrayed as a mastermind who single-handedly defeated a whole ass monarchy and superpower. No one was stopping Lulu to co-operate with Zero in remaking Brittania and giving a good first impression when he took the throne. Zero and lulu can co-exist. As Zero's identity was at the end of the series is implied to be always unknown. 4. Again it was never really 100% confirmed to be accelerated and lulu played a big ass gamble by sacrificing himself before performing proper ad laying out the foundation for a good relationship with the future Brittania. In WW2, Hitler's death only made Germany withdraw. Japan was still in the war and the war suddenly ended bc of the threat of fcking nukes being dropped on your head(sorry for bad language but I wanted to write it hehe). Lelouch ever needed to become a ruthless dictator as other oppressed countries never had a pre-conception of Lulu. It was only about Past Brittania and Charles and his pawns. Lulu had a perfect chance to demolish this conception about Britania where he could have even co-operated with Zero which he gave up for reasons unknown. Yeah, I can understand making sense out of it which I also did when I first watched but now I just can't especially for an anime that deals with heavy themes and topics like CG. |
CamelBowDec 17, 2021 8:50 AM
═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════ |
| See you seem to forget something. I’m using WW2 and WW2 as a way to say that peace is just temporary as it is the case in the real world. Do not forget WW and Code Geass aren’t the same. I was using them as a comparison simply because of Hitler. Lelouch could try to make the world as perfect as he could, yet conflicts will still happen, because we’re humans and not robots. Such is the thing with Code geass. Personally I think you read too much into Kallens words. It does imply that they’re at peace now. However she doesn’t imply that the world itself is peaceful or that Japan and Brittania will be peaceful in the future, because she can’t possibly know that. Hope that clarifies the first part. Other countries would’ve hated him at first. True, but how long would that “at first” last? As we’ve seen in the real world, even if it’s not between governments, hatred between people of 2 different countries can last for centuries. As you could say that they’d hate him at first, I’d say they probably would hate him for decades, which takes us to another point? Would lelouch want to rule the empire for that long or rule it at all? I don’t think so. Lelouch never really showed any interest in Brittania and ruling it, aside from taking revenge. I doubt he’d let Nunally take over since he’d want her away from such matters. What’s to say that whoever takes the throne, wouldn’t go back to their old ways? You could also say Lelouch could simply turn the empire into a parliamentary state and bring democracy. What if the elected person turns out to be another tyrant. Do you understand what I’m doing here? I’m simply assuming how things would have went if they went about it on another route. The route which you mentioned is possible as I agreed to it in my previous reply, but as I said, the most impactful one is what actually happened. I believe that the other countries would rather not deal with Lelouch at all than choosing to do deals with him years later after their hatred of Britannia settles down. I guess you could say Lelouch chose the faster way to peace. And then we also have to think about one crucial thing... Lelouch himself has implied many times that he doesn’t deserve to live, like what happened to Euphemia and the genocide of Japanese people. You like to say he could’ve gone at it in a different way to make peace, but you forget that Lelouch was most likely not at peace with himself. With that in mind his reasoning only makes sense. All in all as I said before, he could’ve gone that way, but the aftermath wouldn’t have been the same, not for the time being at least. Him choosing to sacrifice himself in the end makes complete sense, when thinking what he went through and what he caused. |
𝘚𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘤𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘮𝘺 𝘦𝘺𝘦𝘴, 𝘐 𝘤𝘢𝘯’𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘦. |
| Well in the end it was stated that 70% of wars ended after lelouch's sacrifice so it didn't ended all the wars but it ended to certain extent which brought peace all over the world. Also lelouch taking over britannia doing right things doesn't make sense cause in the anime lelouch came Outta nowhere after killing charles and forcefully took over britannia by keeping people under his geass, so how can people would trust him even if he did the right things??? Also lelouch sacrificed himself for 2 things to bring peace and to atone for the sins he committed. |
 |
Kelly32723 said: but that’s the thing. Hitler’s death provided some peace and security among European nations, but that doesn’t mean war in Asia or Africa wasn’t still a thing. Such thing goes for Code Geass as well. We know Britannia had multiple enemies, but we only saw them making peace with like 2 of those countries. To put it simply, Lelouch’s death won’t solve everyone’s conflicts. At least not right of the bat. But it was a good start. Like Hitler’s death was the beginning of the end for multiple conflicts.MeVike said: The same way the death of Hitler provided peace to the whole world. Does that answer your question? that improved the world but did not provide peace at all lol |
𝘚𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘤𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘮𝘺 𝘦𝘺𝘦𝘴, 𝘐 𝘤𝘢𝘯’𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘦. |
| It was a bittersweet ending, definitely could have been more happier or sadder but then it would devolve from the progression |
-Dxpo- said: So According to you, Queen Elizabeth should have killed herself bc the Britain empire did so many atrocities to its colonies, and Lulu's logic is really dumb bc Britain is a live example of a nation that oppressed other nations for decades or centuries but is still able to maintain good relationships with many of that oppressed nation and that peace can indeed be established.Lelouchs thought process was that it wasn’t going to be enough to just bring down britains empire. They had caused too much damage and the peace that he wanted could never be achieved that way. -Dxpo- said: He could've literally done this while being alive and can ensure his sister's protection for something like 70 years whereas by killing himself he played a HUGE gamble and the alt. universe movie showed us that his sister was indeed kidnapped even under the protection of Suzaku and only Lulu was able to save her. Now isn't this possible to happen in the canon world as well? Where Lulu is absent? Which means his sister may even get killed. So much for protecting her. He gambled 70 years' worth of protection of his sister for a gamble which was not even supposed to be 100% working. I also disagree that he didn't want peace and development for the whole world. I mean that's literally one of the goals of Zero requiems. Lulu can even work with Zero(Suzaku) to show that the new Britannia is nothing like the old one. Just like Non-Nazi Germany or the British empire.He wanted his friends and family to be able to live in peace and freedom without being affected by the ways of the world at that moment. Again like you said lelouch has 200iq he knows that this isn’t going eradicate all crime and all evil from the world just because of his death. But for his that temporary peace and happiness that his friends would be able to enjoy was enough for him to give his life for. He never cared about saving the world, ending crime and bringing peace to all things. He said “He wanted to create a world where his sister could look out at and smile” (Paraphrasing). Did he not create that world? No matter how long or short it may have been his goal was for her and the rest of his friends to experience the happiness they’ve never had a chance to. That was the peace he was looking for. -Dxpo- said: Again that's an utterly idealistic way of thinking and is a big gamble. U are talking about Nunally getting kidnapped is realistic but wouldn't it be better for Lulu to work along with Zero to deconstruct the way Brittania works and give resources to the oppressed nation to develop. I mean this would literally bring the same result and on top of that, he would always be present to protect Nunally. Nunally got kidnapped and would probably be killed in absence of Lulu making his whole Requiem absolutely worthless.Now to explain the reasoning behind him orchestrating a plan to kill himself the purpose of that was to simply unify the peoples hearts towards one cause. Killing Lelouch vi Brittania. He decided to direct everyone’s hatred at him to unite them together. The point of his death isn’t what create that peace and diplomacy amongst all the countries it was the unity that he created. Put in simple terms they say “The enemy of your enemy is your friend”. That’s the same principle that applies here. If they feel that the power of that unity is what helped towards bringing him down then of course they’re going to stay United. And also just about your point about nunally being captured after his sacrifice. Again this wasn’t something that he was expected to solve all the worlds problems so it makes perfect sense that something like that could happen. -Dxpo- said: Your analogy about 10 dollars does not make sense bc Lulu who had billions of dollars by being the one to operate Brittania can solve a major part of world hunger but chose to gamble 100$ just bc if he thought it would good. I mean isn't this stupid? I have already addressed the Hitler argument multiple times so I won't repeat it. Also like the people talking about hitler mentioned the war didn’t immediately end after his death and despite all the alien superpowers and flying robots cg is set in a semi realistic world. So id actually it’d be more unrealistic for lelouchs death to have completely ended all evil and created pure and total peace. That doesn’t make his sacrifice useless because he achieved what he was planning to. If I give $10 to charity tomorrow is that going to solve world hunger and poverty? No. Does that mean I regret my decision biggest it didn’t affect it on the grand scheme of things or that it was useless? No. Since I know that that $10 will at least help one person out who needs it. Lelouch felt that the freedom and peace of his friends no matter how short it may have been was truly worth giving his life for. Think about it like this. Would he rather them experience a short period of peace or never experience peace at all. When you realise that that’s what makes the end of code geass so powerful. So yeah. Just my thoughts. The thing is Lulu felt that freedom and peace for his friend no matter what is worth it HOWEVER that short amount of time could have literally been 70 years of peace, freedom, and protection if he would have functioned like the mastermind he actually was. Think about it like this. Would he rather them experience a short period of peace or deconstruct Brittania by aiding the oppressed nation, building proper relations, and experiencing peace and freedom for as long as he dies of old age? I already realized what u want me to understand but I can't help but think that Lulu had a one in a million chance to actually change the world by being alive but chose to gamble it for a short period of peace when he could have got long period of peace. |
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JaysonZoro17 said: That's the whole point. Why did he make his first impression as a dictator instead of a freedom fighter who wants the betterment of humanity? Just the change in his attitude could've made a whole ass difference but for some reason, he didn't which you know is dumb, and is kinda weird for Lulu to be this dumb.Your criticism is very fair and understandable but I don't agree with your points. Other countries would rather not have relationships with a tyrannical leader. |
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MeVike said: peace. im sorry but no people still continue to do war and hate each other The same way the death of Hitler provided peace to the whole world. Does that answer your question? |
| i didn't like the ending as well i have no idea why people love it so much. avatar, fmab, and of course breaking bad had much better endings. |
| Anime isnt meant to be realistic. Dozens of things occur in Code Geass, as well as most anime, that obviously go past the laws of real life. As for the movie, I think its technically not canon |
GENTZER0 said: All of the things u mentioned could be done with Lulu co-operating with Zero(Suzaku) and making a actual good first impression when he sits o the throne. He could've literally done this while being alive and can ensure his sister's protection for something like 70 years whereas by killing himself he played a HUGE gamble and the alt. universe movie showed us that his sister was indeed kidnapped even under the protection of Suzaku and only Lulu was able to save her. Now isn't this possible to happen in the canon world as well? Where Lulu is absent? Which means his sister may even get killed. So much for protecting her. He gambled 70 years' worth(assuming he is 20 and lives an average human life) of protection of his sister for a gamble which was not even supposed to be 100% working.I think your criticism is super fair. Although, I do recall Kallen saying that not everything was solved, but rather that extreme total war had for the most part been on halt. As for Nunnally and her safety, I think Lelouch banked on Suzaku to fulfill that role. And we shouldn’t forget, which I haven’t seen anyone point out yet, that Lelouch ordered Schniezel, someone who is on par with his intellect, to “Obey Zero”. Well Zero is Suzaku, and he’s in on the plan. So even if there were conflicts, the Black Knights had garnered a reputation as the world’s global police force, and we see this in the new movie at the very end when Schniezel acts as Chairman of the Black Knights and sends in troops to neutralize the scenario in Shambala. I’m not saying it’s the best ending, as you’ve pointed out; there are glaring discontinuities, but at the end of the day, what mattered was that the rest of the world had already relinquished their militaries for the most part in favor of the Black Knights. It was a plan set in motion by Lelouch to have an organization and idea that outlasted him. Again, definitely a bunch of plot holes lol, but I like to think he had to die to make people begin talking at the table again instead of the total war we see with Britannia and the rest of the world, while also having the Black Knights as his contingency should something happen. But all in all, I think he had to die to atone for all the sins he had done. It’s a good way to summarize his philosophy: “the only ones who should kill are those prepared to be killed themselves”. NickCipolla said: I disagree bc this anime is literally based in the real world with real-world politics and strategy to win with just CG being a supernatural aspect. I could've excused this if this was Gurren Lagann but it's not. Anime isnt meant to be realistic. Dozens of things occur in Code Geass, as well as most anime, that obviously go past the laws of real life. As for the movie, I think its technically not canon Yeah, the movie is non-canon but it shows a big possibility of what can happen in canon as well. |
CamelBowDec 17, 2021 10:53 PM
═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════ |
adnan_ said: NickCipolla said: I disagree bc this anime is literally based in the real world with real-world politics and strategy to win with just CG being a supernatural aspect. I could've excused this if this was Gurren Lagann but it's not. Anime isnt meant to be realistic. Dozens of things occur in Code Geass, as well as most anime, that obviously go past the laws of real life. As for the movie, I think its technically not canon Yeah, the movie is non-canon but it shows a big possibility of what can happen in canon as well. death note, your name, steins gate. all real world based, but highly unrealistic because of the same things u dont like about code geass |
NickCipolla said: DN had a realistic ending, S;G ending is logical on its own but if u want to understand it more then S;G 0 does that and your name literally only has a real-world background setting all of the sake and thread of fate stuff is supernatural. CG's ending is not. Another thing is these stories could've only ended in the way they concluded but code geass literally had a better way to conclude its storyline bc of how intelligent Lulu is. Read my other replies to know about 'emadnan_ said: I disagree bc this anime is literally based in the real world with real-world politics and strategy to win with just CG being a supernatural aspect. I could've excused this if this was Gurren Lagann but it's not. Yeah, the movie is non-canon but it shows a big possibility of what can happen in canon as well. death note, your name, steins gate. all real world based, but highly unrealistic because of the same things u dont like about code geass |
═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════ |
adnan_ said: NickCipolla said: DN had a realistic ending, S;G ending is logical on its own but if u want to understand it more then S;G 0 does that and your name literally only has a real-world background setting all of the sake and thread of fate stuff is supernatural. CG's ending is not. Another thing is these stories could've only ended in the way they concluded but code geass literally had a better way to conclude its storyline bc of how intelligent Lulu is. Read my other replies to know about 'emdeath note, your name, steins gate. all real world based, but highly unrealistic because of the same things u dont like about code geass youre just making excuses for anime you have a positive opinion on, and finding excuses to dislike code geass, at this point so this conversation is over |
NickCipolla said: Bruh what? I didn't even find your name special and DN and S;G indeed had a logical ending. I can debate about it too. I don't mind talking about 'em. I also never knew 7 and 8 ranking for CG is considered to be negative but okiadnan_ said: DN had a realistic ending, S;G ending is logical on its own but if u want to understand it more then S;G 0 does that and your name literally only has a real-world background setting all of the sake and thread of fate stuff is supernatural. CG's ending is not. Another thing is these stories could've only ended in the way they concluded but code geass literally had a better way to conclude its storyline bc of how intelligent Lulu is. Read my other replies to know about 'em youre just making excuses for anime you have a positive opinion on, and finding excuses to dislike code geass, at this point so this conversation is over MeVike said: Shouldn't be possible.It does imply that they’re at peace now. MeVike said: As soon as he started to liberate and give resource to them for development and propose a committee like UN which shouldn't be too long if we see how fas he overthrew a superpower nation. Yeah, Suzaku can rule Brittania from the shadows something like a cooperative rule with lulu and I don't think Lulu would mind that. Lulu won't do that as if that were the case Suzaku would have done that after Lulu's requiem. Keep in mind whatever you are saying can still happen in the canon ending. So you are criticizing canon end as well. The faster way to peace was a huge gamble which didn't even last long if we think what happened in the latest movie. lulu does not deserve to live but he can shoulder his sins and the burden of all the people he killed. Other countries would’ve hated him at first. True, but how long would that “at first” last? As we’ve seen in the real world, even if it’s not between governments, hatred between people of 2 different countries can last for centuries. As you could say that they’d hate him at first, I’d say they probably would hate him for decades, which takes us to another point? Would lelouch want to rule the empire for that long or rule it at all? I don’t think so. Lelouch never really showed any interest in Brittania and ruling it, aside from taking revenge. I doubt he’d let Nunally take over since he’d want her away from such matters. What’s to say that whoever takes the throne, wouldn’t go back to their old ways? You could also say Lelouch could simply turn the empire into a parliamentary state and bring democracy. What if the elected person turns out to be another tyrant. Do you understand what I’m doing here? I’m simply assuming how things would have went if they went about it on another route. The route which you mentioned is possible as I agreed to it in my previous reply, but as I said, the most impactful one is what actually happened. I believe that the other countries would rather not deal with Lelouch at all than choosing to do deals with him years later after their hatred of Britannia settles down. I guess you could say Lelouch chose the faster way to peace. And then we also have to think about one crucial thing... Lelouch himself has implied many times that he doesn’t deserve to live, like what happened to Euphemia and the genocide of Japanese people. You like to say he could’ve gone at it in a different way to make peace, but you forget that Lelouch was most likely not at peace with himself. With that in mind his reasoning only makes sense. All in all as I said before, he could’ve gone that way, but the aftermath wouldn’t have been the same, not for the time being at least. Him choosing to sacrifice himself in the end makes complete sense, when thinking what he went through and what he caused. Yeah, I also think if he would have gone the other way the outcome would be much better but not that impactful as it would proceed like how our world proceeds. |
CamelBowDec 17, 2021 11:25 PM
═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════ |
babibeams said: Yeah and he never needed to put that stupid facade as it was never necessary. I already addressed why in my message. The fiction has themes related to war, conflict, humans. If this was gonna be unrealistic then be like Gurren Lagann and don't spend time to build strategies bc at the end it's just fiction, amirite?. The simply "better" and removing poverty could've been achieved without 0 Requiem. Don't care for foreshadowing or symbolism if the end product is illogical. Lulu didn't understand human nature but took a big ass gamble which is not even effective to protect his own sister. Calling the end "brilliant" is quite literally embarrassing. LolReforming Britannia wouldnt work since in the eyes of the public they perceived Lelouch through his "demon king" facade. Can't believe U made an alt account for this alone XDXD |
═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════ |
babibeams said: Dude he should not make his first image as a Tyrant. That's literally it. Instead, he should announce the liberation of every oppressed nation and give resources for their development. Everything u stated was unnecessary. Utilitarian stuff as well. I mean that's literally the point of this thread lol. Who did he betray? Was it his own group of Knights? Or his father or his brother? He could've literally made Suzaku (the Zero) another leader of Brittania along with himself. U know the world is not so naive to suddenly doubt the one who is liberating them and giving them resources. It's illogical bc his death brought sudden peace. I mean even Hitler's death was not enough to bring an end to WW2. How does Lulu's death bring peace? Yeah, I know C's world and I am literally talking about Lulu should have struggled by making Brittania a better country himself instead of offing himself.Facade Unnecessary? so what should he do to force people to like him after choosing to destroy the world? and after using/manipulating quite literally everyone?... he chose the path of a utilitarian. Sacrifice is needed. You can't just change out of no were and claim to be helping the world when you betrayed Everything/everyone. And AGAIN no where did it state to be perfect like a fairytale; so how is it illogical?? LMAOOO. Zero Requiem is about new beginnings a stepping stone to move into a better future. Also please revisit Cs wolrd and his talk with his big brother when he quite literally said "human Nature is why I chose Geass, and to wear a Mask". Lelouch understanding what humanity strives for is what makes the ending so great. through struggle, people will continue to look for change. I dont expect a Aot fan to understand execution. Embarrassing Yeah, nice bringing another animanga to validate your opinion. I am not even talking about execution. I am directly criticizing the idea itself lol. I pity you. Also it "an" AoT fan not "a" AoT fan. |
═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════ |
| I appreciate that you put a lot of time to come to that conclusion. Well, your points are valid, but I never considered the ending as a bad or good ending. That show is mainly my favourite because of Lelouch. The same is with Death Note. If there was no Light Yagami then I wouldn't had liked that anime |
babibeams said: Lol his brother and fight with his brother is a completely different thing. I am talking about liberating other countries that have nothing to do with his brother. It's not that hard LMFAO. I never said Lulu should never defeat his brother. Tell me one single reason for lulu to act like a Tyrant just bc he wants to defeat his brother? Lulu can still make relations with other countries while he defeats his brother. He can still liberate them, give proper resources for the development of political and infrastructure of aspect of other nation and can still fight his brother. I mean didn't he literally predict what his brother will say? This stuff is child's play for him. He does not even need to do physical work. A committee like UNO is more than enough for this. he just has to sign agreements. That's literally it.He can't do that when the world is fighting for the spot of a tyrant. His brother exists bro like what..... he literally wants to become the next tyrant. Lelouch winning against his brother was far before his demon facade even started. The world was already against him. You think his brother is just gonna stop, and contradict his entire ideology by accepting Lelouch's way of liberating everyone. And for the Hitler point. He wasn't in control of the whole world what are you talking about. It's not the same thing LOL. Italy, Japan, etc ally's of Germany; and still didn't control a third of the world. When Lelouch was in power there is no one to oppose him because he destroyed all his enemies. So when he dies there is no reason to fight because the world's hatred cant be targeted under someone else. which gave a sudden peace. In which they went into rebuilding the world it's COMPLETELY logical. just accept ur wrong and move on. Yeah, that's my fcking point. Multiple countries were free and already had a stable political system whereas Lulu didn't liberate any of the countries and didn't see everything up until the end. There's no fcking stable political system in the whole world after his death. A revolt rising up or violence happening is more than expected as there's no one to work as a government. Don't say Suzaku was there as a single person can't run the whole world. Also, why is there no reason to fight? Territorial disputes will be the first thing that will happen and may even lead to war but in the ending, nothing like this happens. Everything is perfect. Dude you can't even build a whole country in peace(Read about the division of India when it got independent), building the whole world and its political system without any conflict is as possible as Neil Armstrong having a naked bath on Moon. Listen to your advice. Alt account. |
CamelBowDec 18, 2021 6:43 AM
═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════ |
NickCipolla said: Anime isnt meant to be realistic. Dozens of things occur in Code Geass, as well as most anime, that obviously go past the laws of real life. That's a low effort cop out. Just because a lot of anime aren't realistic dosen't mean they get to have a free pass for not making sense. For example Prison School an anime that even though is absurdly over the top, still has consistency with what makes sense in its world. Code Geass on the other hand, is an anime that wants to take itself seriously mind you, repeatedly breaks its established rules that makes the show jarring and just straight up stupid. |
Fail_Man_X said: No one knows about his Geass ability and if he really thought so much about the world that he would sacrifice his life, why didn't he went blind?By this logic, no story involving a war is ever complete, because there will always be future conflict. Also, Lelouch becoming a benevolent leader was impossible. He comes to power through absolute mind control. It would be "unrealistic" for every other nation to not fight him (unless he mind controls everyone) I already addressed why other leaders will work with him as he is not the only one who will decide but Zero()Suzaku} will also play a major I mean 50% part in decision making. So either Lulu also mind control Suzaku(which he won't) or Zero is protected from Geass, therefore, making Lulu or Brittania be trustworthy. Anyway, the other nation has a better chance with lulu who overthrows Charles for a better world. I can't see why they won't do it. And yeah no war stories end with a note that humanity has stopped fighting bc one dude died. |
═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════ |
| From my understanding of the ending Lelouch wanted the the hatred of the world on him to break the current cycle and unite the world for however long is possible by focusing there anger, loss and hatred on one man and dramocles So that people will hate him so mush they will forget about euphumia's massacre (not literally of course) even the ending when both lulu and euphi died zero's name is chanted while there loved one suzaku and nanully cried And lelouch and suzaku wanted to atone for there sins through the plan In fulfilling this plan, Suzaku and Lelouch would be establishing peace and simultaneously imposing the greatest punishments on themselves: death for Lelouch who wishes for a tomorrow with his sister, life for Suzaku who wishes to atone for his sins through death. And it an idealistic open ending literally how fmab, steins gate (elite) ending The world did became a better place (according to kalan) thou wars will not end it reduced it significantly since majority of the counteris are under black knights leadership Two people who wanted to die and came to enlightment that people yearn for future (the future could be both bad and good like for some one a death of another will lead to him having a better future etc) do you think they will create a 10 to 20 year plan to bring and maintain the peace of the world And do you think people who guilty riden would take take it upon themselves to guide the world towards a better future or will they try to become a stepping stone for a better future He wanted to create a better world nanully and trusted its management to his allies (his plan fully shows his development as a character) what happens after that is not something he has any control over or wants to have any control over The future the people is there's to decide and the new world that he setup is there to shape how they see fit and leaders of the new world are all (atleast majority of them are people who knew about his plan) and according to the director the ending is left in the interpitation of the viewer so if you think its a bad ending then it is for you i didnt like one aspect of the ending which the movie fixed, lelouch didnt fulfill is new contract with C.C |
AkitokamisenDec 18, 2021 11:12 AM
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