Attack on Titan
| Okay so ever since that episode, I have been thinking about the possible reasons as to why Levi did what he did. Here are some on my reasons. What do you think? 1) From Levi's perspective he was trying to be as thorough as possible. He wasn't supposed to kill Zeke, but after the wine debacle in the woods he was left alone to try to handle Zeke. He needed some sort of threat because he knew that he wouldn't be able to keep an eye on Zeke every second while he was managing the horses. He still had to take breaks to go repeatedly chop off Zeke's limbs as they regenerated. It wasn't the best plan, but I think he was working with what he had. 2) Both under-estimated each other. Zeke thought that Levi wouldn't kill his sub-ordinates-turned-into-titans and Levi thought that Zeke wouldn't try to commit suicide. 3) Zeke is unpredictable. We as viewers knew what was coming because we knew that Zeke's spinal fluid was mixed with the wine. However, Levi did not know that. He was caught off guard. So, Levi was wary of any other tricks Zeke would have up his sleeve. So, in order to be sure that Zeke does not pull another trick, he planted a thunderspear so that if Zeke did anything, he would die instantly. 4) No one except Eren and Yelena know much about Zeke. Again, we as viewers, know about Zeke's backstory and his mission. Levi did not know that. He does not know much about Zeke's personality, his ambitions, his childhood, the things he is ready to sacrifice to achieve what he wants and many other things. So, for him, it was necessary to do anything to ensure that Zeke does not do anything. Again, he did not expect him to try to commit suicide. 5) Levi was fatigued. He fought 30 titans including the Beast Titan so he is definitely going to be tired. He couldn't think properly. He did what he wanted to do ( that is restrain Zeke ) using what he had. 6) People make errors under difficult circumstances. Everyone makes mistakes. Especially when you are tired after fighting so many titans and angry at the person you have captured. 7) Levi was outraged. First Ragako, then Erwin and now the 30 soldiers. Zeke never gave importance to human life and Levi even mentioned this in episode 13. Levi was already angry at Zeke for what happened to Erwin and after 4 years of suppressed anger, he had to deal with yet another of Zeke's plans where Zeke transformed the people into titans or killed them with no regard for their life. So, yeah. These are the reasons that I could think of. Do you have any other reasons? |
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Ayussh said: troilus_05s said: Okay so ever since that episode, I have been thinking about the possible reasons as to why Levi did what he did. Here are some on my reasons. What do you think? 1) From Levi's perspective he was trying to be as thorough as possible. He wasn't supposed to kill Zeke, but after the wine debacle in the woods he was left alone to try to handle Zeke. He needed some sort of threat because he knew that he wouldn't be able to keep an eye on Zeke every second while he was managing the horses. He still had to take breaks to go repeatedly chop off Zeke's limbs as they regenerated. It wasn't the best plan, but I think he was working with what he had. 2) Both under-estimated each other. Zeke thought that Levi wouldn't kill his sub-ordinates-turned-into-titans and Levi thought that Zeke wouldn't try to commit suicide. 3) Zeke is unpredictable. We as viewers knew what was coming because we knew that Zeke's spinal fluid was mixed with the wine. However, Levi did not know that. He was caught off guard. So, Levi was wary of any other tricks Zeke would have up his sleeve. So, in order to be sure that Zeke does not pull another trick, he planted a thunderspear so that if Zeke did anything, he would die instantly. 4) No one except Eren and Yelena know much about Zeke. Again, we as viewers, know about Zeke's backstory and his mission. Levi did not know that. He does not know much about Zeke's personality, his ambitions, his childhood, the things he is ready to sacrifice to achieve what he wants and many other things. So, for him, it was necessary to do anything to ensure that Zeke does not do anything. Again, he did not expect him to try to commit suicide. 5) Levi was fatigued. He fought 30 titans including the Beast Titan so he is definitely going to be tired. He couldn't think properly. He did what he wanted to do ( that is restrain Zeke ) using what he had. 6) People make errors under difficult circumstances. Everyone makes mistakes. Especially when you are tired after fighting so many titans and angry at the person you have captured. 7) Levi was outraged. First Ragako, then Erwin and now the 30 soldiers. Zeke never gave importance to human life and Levi even mentioned this in episode 13. Levi was already angry at Zeke for what happened to Erwin and after 4 years of suppressed anger, he had to deal with yet another of Zeke's plans where Zeke transformed the people into titans or killed them with no regard for their life. So, yeah. These are the reasons that I could think of. Do you have any other reasons? Wow props for the effort to think about so many reasons. Personally I think reason is Levi is assuming that Zeke has a plan and he needs a royal titan and founding titan so he will not kill himself so why not put Zeke in a life threatening situation so that he doesn't cause any more trouble. That is a good reason too! |
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| It's quite simple, Levi wanted to make sure that Zeke didn't try another madness. Making it clear, that if Zeke were to do something like that, it would be the last of his life. |
| i think the circumstances where just so tight and unpredictable that levi was left with 1 option and that was kill or don’t kill zeke. i don’t think he was expecting zeke to commit suicide though. |
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ido4224 said: Are you sure Zeke tried to commit a suicide? Is it because it was the only way he could have had a chance to prevent his titan from going to the chosahedan side? Yes, he was definitely planning to die, no doubt about this. |
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| I always only thought of reason 1 |
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| We can expend reasons 2 and 4 by saying that everybody thinks Zeke is using Eren and hence it could be clear why Levi would think that such a person wouldn't sacrifice themselves. On the other hand, Levi kindly let Zeke know that the destination of his journey is another titan's mouth so, in all seriousness, even if he didn't have a resolve or a motive for suicide I think that the chances of surviving a thunderspear as a titan shifter are a bit higher than being eaten. |
| Noir… It is the name of an ancient fate. Two sisters who watch anime. The peace of the newly born, their black hands protect. |
xZabuzax said: I mean, I'm actually ok with Levi putting thunder-spears in Zeke but at least do it if you are sure you will be 50 feet away from him, don't do it when you are fucking close to him because that's just stupid, never give your enemy a FUCKING BOMB because you never know if he will go kamikaze to take you out with him for fucks sake. I'm ok with people making mistakes and all but I'm absolutely not okay seeing intelligent characters going stupid all of a sudden with stupid plans like that, that scene could have been played differently in a more logical way, the way it happened simply didn't made sense to me and he became stupid just because the plot demanded it... the cringe man. All right then, you tell me what Levi should have done under those circumstances. All alone, stressed the fuck out from what just happened in the forest, miles away from the nearest village/town, stuck with Zeke who is historically super unpredictable and slippery, knowing that the Jaegerists are more than likely on their way to collect him and not knowing if backup is on the way. What other choice is there? Let's hear your brilliant plan. |
| Tbh what Levi was doing to Zeke just basically reminded me of what Levi did to Eren to Season 1 a bit. Maybe he did it because they're both Yeagers. But just decided to do something way worse |
xZabuzax said: Just because I can't come up with a better plan doesn't mean that I have to go with a stupid plan, for starters, I will never start giving my opponent a freaking BOMB and by doing that my plan by default will be much better than Levi's plan. Well, that's disappointing. I mean, since it's such a stupid plan as you say, then surely it would be really easy to come up with a better one, right? So, why can't you? Come ooonn man, i'm not asking you to make up a whole master plan on the spot. I'm just asking you to answer me one simple question: If not under threat of (potentially) immediate death by bomb, what else do you suggest that Levi should have used in his situation to keep crafty-ass Zeke restrained well enough throughout the whole trip, that he wouldn't have to look back over his shoulder to check on him every 5 seconds? Should be easy enough, right? |
xZabuzax said: Stygian_Prisoner said: Well, that's disappointing. I mean, since it's such a stupid plan as you say, then surely it would be really easy to come up with a better one, right? So, why can't you? Come ooonn man, i'm not asking you to make up a whole master plan on the spot. I'm just asking you to answer me one simple question: If not under threat of (potentially) immediate death by bomb, what else do you suggest that Levi should have used in his situation to keep crafty-ass Zeke restrained well enough throughout the whole trip, that he wouldn't have to look back over his shoulder to check on him every 5 seconds? Should be easy enough, right? I'm not saying it would be easy, I never did but one thing is having a plan and another thing is having an extremely stupid plan which is the thing Levi did. You don't ever give a tool to your enemy which he can use to kill you... EVER so yeah, it was a stupid as fuck plan and I don't need to come up with a better plan to know that the previous plan was stupid. Levi has lost everyone. I don't think he was afraid of dying. He attached a thunderspear to Zeke so that IF Zeke tried to do anything, the thunderspear would blow up ensuring that Zeke was killed. Levi may die too. But, at least he will die ensuring that Zeke died too and that Eren and Zeke's plan did not succeed. However, he did not expect Zeke to really commit suicide. He thought that a death threat was enough to keep Zeke quiet. |
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xZabuzax said: I'm not saying it would be easy, I never did but one thing is having a plan and another thing is having an extremely stupid plan which is the thing Levi did. You don't ever give a tool to your enemy which he can use to kill you... EVER so yeah, it was a stupid as fuck plan and I don't need to come up with a better plan to know that the previous plan was stupid. Jesus Christ, you're dense. You really don't get it, do you? The reason why you can't come up with a better idea is because there is nothing else you could possibly do in that same situation. That's the whole fucking point. Levi is obviously not even pretending that what he's doing is a remotely good idea. He's not mugging at the camera, pushing up his invisible glasses and mouthing off on what a genius he is. Yes, of course it's a stupid plan and surely he's fully aware of it, but guess what? It's the only choice he's got. He's literally taking a desperate gamble with both his and Zeke's lives. He knows that Zeke is working towards an ultimate goal that requires him to stay alive at any cost and see it through, so he put all his chips into believing that Zeke wouldn't be so reckless as to attempt an escape that could immediately end his life on the spot. Surely someone as cautious as Zeke would wait for a perfect, safer opening to try and get away. Unfortunately, that gamble of his didn't pay off, and that's all there is to it. Stupid idea? Absolutely. But don't you pretend that there was ever any other alternative left for Levi, because the fact that you can't come up with anything at all only attests that there wasn't. |
xZabuzax said: There's no reason for both of us to die because of his stupid plan, I would be 50 feet away from him and see how things play out which is an intelligent thing to do at that moment. You're overlooking a very, very crucial point in your """intelligent""" assessment... Levi has to get really, really fucking close to Zeke in order to slice off his limbs and stop him from transforming, and thus becoming a much bigger threat...and he obviously has to do this many times throughout the trip due to Zeke's regeneration. It wouldn't fucking matter if Levi figured out a way to transport him from 100 feet away. The moment that Zeke decides that he will blow himself up and take Levi down with him, all he has to do is wait for Levi to eventually come close to chop him up, and it's over. Well, any other bright ideas, Einstein? Were you perhaps going to suggest that Levi develop Telekinesis next and move his blades with his mind to cut Zeke up from a safe distance? |
Stygian_Prisoner said: You're overlooking a very, very crucial point in your """intelligent""" assessment... Levi has to get really, really fucking close to Zeke in order to slice off his limbs and stop him from transforming, and thus becoming a much bigger threat...and he obviously has to do this many times throughout the trip due to Zeke's regeneration. It wouldn't fucking matter if Levi figured out a way to transport him from 100 feet away. The moment that Zeke decides that he will blow himself up and take Levi down with him, all he has to do is wait for Levi to eventually come close to chop him up, and it's over. Which is exactly why you don't give your enemy a bomb because he will kill you with it, pay close attention to what he's saying next time. Stygian_Prisoner said: Well, any other bright ideas, Einstein? Were you perhaps going to suggest that Levi develop Telekinesis next and move his blades with his mind to cut Zeke up from a safe distance? You can't be serious on this one, if you're looking for "bright ideas" then you can start by not giving your enemy a BOMB that he will use to kill you, pay close attention to the debate please. You said a couple of times here that what Levi did is the BEST PLAN or that nobody can come up WITH A BETTER PLAN which is absurd, you are extremely wrong on this one, this ain't rocket science, if you want a better plan then start by not giving your enemy a BOMB that he will use to kill you like it's repeated many times already in this debate, this is an intelligent thing to do, DON'T GIVE YOUR ENEMY A BOMB TO KILL YOU, simple huh? I didn't even need rocket science for this one either. But since you are hell bent in asking for an "alternative plan" then here's one: "Don't give your enemy a BOMB and start slicing him up when he's regenerating, simple huh? if you can't keep up with that simple task then simply kill the threat, that bastard already killed plenty of your comrades." That plan I just provided above is better than the one Levi did because that one was stupid enough to have Levi being blown up by it so there, take that as you will. |
xZabuzax said: First of all, you're wrong by saying that there was no better plan available, he could definitely come up with a better plan so don't you dare saying that what he did is THE ONLY PLAN that could have worked because that's just plain stupid and like I said, I don't need to come up with a better plan to know the previous plan was stupid so stop bringing that shit up again but I'm not expecting much from someone defending this stupid plan to begin with. Wow, can't believe we are even debating over this. Stupid gambles are a risk, yes and that's why you don't fucking do stupid gambles in your life, that's like gambling your house in a stupid bet, if you win then it's worth it but if you lose then you fucking lose everything, this is why stupid gambles are bad and I don't recommend it, this same analogy goes for stupid as fuck plans, you don't ever give your enemy a fucking bomb that he will use to kill you, it's just stupid but like I said, I'm not expecting much from this conversation at this point from people defending this type of shit. I just hope we are never in a situation where I see you giving our enemy a fucking bomb because once you do I will stay the fuck away from you and once you are blown up just like Levi then maybe you will change your mind about it... or maybe not, your brains might be splattered all over the place. Anyway, I have enough of this silly debate, this ain't worth my time. What debate? You're not debating anything. Literally all you're doing is repeating "stupid plan, stupid plan, stupid plan" like a fucking parrot, a point which i've already agreed with, btw... but then i state that there was no other choice anyway and all you can respond with is "Yes, there was, but i don't have to think of one" (Newsflash: yes, you do. That's how debates actually work). So really, all i'm getting from your attitude is "I have zero legitimate and well thought-out counterpoints to back up my own argument, so i'll just keep repeating my premise ad nauseam and maybe i'll eventually win." Yes, Mr. Mackey, i know that gambles are bad and dangerous, spare me the PSA. I was using it as a fucking metaphor for Levi's extreme circumstances. Obviously i'm not advocating for it as something one should do willingly. Well, IF i was in a situation where it was just you, me, and an enemy, there would be no need for me to force my enemy to carry a bomb around; because i would have you, a partner, helping me out by keeping an eye on him...guess what? That's a luxury that Levi doesn't fucking have at that moment! But, by all means, go ahead and duck out of this "silly debate" now with your tail between your legs. You know you got nothin'... |
Resus-2 said: Which is exactly why you don't give your enemy a bomb because he will kill you with it, pay close attention to what he's saying next time. You can't be serious on this one, if you're looking for "bright ideas" then you can start by not giving your enemy a BOMB that he will use to kill you, pay close attention to the debate please. You said a couple of times here that what Levi did is the BEST PLAN or that nobody can come up WITH A BETTER PLAN which is absurd, you are extremely wrong on this one, this ain't rocket science, if you want a better plan then start by not giving your enemy a BOMB that he will use to kill you like it's repeated many times already in this debate, this is an intelligent thing to do, DON'T GIVE YOUR ENEMY A BOMB TO KILL YOU, simple huh? I didn't even need rocket science for this one either. But since you are hell bent in asking for an "alternative plan" then here's one: "Don't give your enemy a BOMB and start slicing him up when he's regenerating, simple huh? if you can't keep up with that simple task then simply kill the threat, that bastard already killed plenty of your comrades." That plan I just provided above is better than the one Levi did because that one was stupid enough to have Levi being blown up by it so there, take that as you will. Hmmm, let's see what we got here...no profile pic, no friends, disabled comments, no access to list...same writing style, exact same repetitive non-argument...just like @xZabuzax Smells like an alt account to me. Wow, imagine having to switch accounts just to make up an imaginary "defender" to help your own shitty, weak take hahahahahahah!!! |
Stygian_Prisoner said: Hmmm, let's see what we got here...no profile pic, no friends, disabled comments, no access to list...same writing style, exact same repetitive non-argument...just like @xZabuzax Smells like an alt account to me. Wow, imagine having to switch accounts just to make up an imaginary "defender" to help your own shitty, weak take hahahahahahah!!! Wow, god forbid that having no friends, disabled comments, no access, blah blah..... means that we are the same person and you don't even have evidence for any of it either which makes this even more retarded, yeah, at this point you are not even worth my time either. Instead of answering my comment above which I believe was a good one you went ahead and answered with a dumb one, just as expected. Never go full retard guys. |
Resus-2 said: Wow, god forbid that having no friends, disabled comments, no access, blah blah..... means that we are the same person and you don't even have evidence for any of it either which makes this even more retarded, yeah, at this point you are not even worth my time either. Instead of answering my comment above which I believe was a good one you went ahead and answered with a dumb one, just as expected. Never go full retard guys. There is such a thing as circumstantial evidence, y'know. True, it doesn't tend to hold up in court; but this ain't no court, is it? I mean, come on, your entire profile is set up pretty much exactly the same way as "his", you come white-knighting out of nowhere, wording your argument in the exact same way "he" does...the writing's on the wall, bud; you're not fooling anyone. Either way, sure, i'll humor your argument for a while: How is the alternative you propose any more viable than Levi's plan if it doesn't even account for the possibility of the Survey Corps acquiring Zeke's Beast Titan, and the end result would largely be the same as the one that might have just played out in the actual episode? The Paradisians need to keep the BT in their custody to bolster their forces against the incoming Marley assault. You do know that if Levi kills Zeke without feeding him to a Titan, then the BT will just go over to whichever Eldian the Paths choose and, statistically speaking, will most likely end up back in Marley's hands...and then the Survey Corps would have to deal with a new BT, that has Zeke's inherited memories/skills, all over again...along with the other Marley Warriors that they'll have to face soon. For all we know, Levi could have seen this gamble of his as sort of a win-win in a way: A) transport Zeke to the Survey Corps, have them acquire his BT. Zeke dies. Win. B) Zeke blows himself up. No BT for the Corps, but now rogue Eren can't activate the Rumbling and Zeke still (probably) dies. Win. Of course, the second scenario does imply Levi also (probably) dying in the process, but the truth is that, as amazing of a soldier as Levi is, he really doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things compared to the BT's usability in a large-scale war and i'm sure he knows this. It's not like Levi alone would be able to leave much of a dent on the millions of Colossal Titans that would get unleashed if/when the Rumbling does happen, or on the enormous Marley alliance army that is about to descend on the island. The BT's powers, on the other hand, can easily turn the tide in conquering an entire city overnight. Of course, Levi probably just saw this as a failsafe, as he obviously didn't expect Zeke to actually blow himself up, and you can't really blame him for failing to predict that, given Zeke's incredibly self-preservative nature. All that said, my main point here is: TL;DR, as stupid as Levi's desperate plan may be, it at least allows for the chance that the Paridisians might be able to keep the powerful BT within their ranks; your proposed plan doesn't even bother to put that into consideration, so how is it any better? |
xZabuzax said: And I never thought debating with you couldn't get even more silly, it's a good thing I decided to not waste my time with you but this specific comment was too good to let go. You definitely ain't worth my time. Ooh, what a coincidence. Yet another dismissive phrase of yours that your "friend" up there also likes to parrot!: Resus-2 said: at this point you are not even worth my time either. Gee, it's almost as if you might be the same person distant soul mates! How fascinating... Anyway, don't flatter yourself. If anything, i'm the one who's wasting my time here, since i'm the only one that's actually bothering to type out actual backup points and examples in my argument. I'm not the one saying "I'm right, but i don't have to come up with a reason for why i'm right"...unlike a certain someone. |
xZabuzax said: Just do me a favor and stop pestering me, I won't even bother to read all your garbage because I'm not interested in you nor your silly comments so this will be my last comment to you. Go ahead and write your last comment so you can feel better about yourself, just know that I won't bother to read it because I'm not interested in you. Alrighty, so basically you accept that you have no arguments left, that you never had any to begin with, so you're running away from a debate you can't possibly win. Got it, champ. GG. Ooh, by the way...you are aware that if @Resus-2 is in fact your alt account, then you have no choice but to switch over and continue the debate with me from there anyway, right? (i already responded to "his" argument)...unless you wanna end up proving my "non-evidenced theory" right? On the other hand, if Resus-2 does turn out to be a different person, then you'd better hope that "they" continue responding to me; otherwise, you'll end up looking like a huge cowardly fraud...'kay bye, have fun wasting more of your time with me in your alt account, hahahahah! |
Stygian_Prisoner said: Ooh, by the way...you are aware that if @Resus-2 is in fact your alt account, then you have no choice but to switch over and continue the debate with me from there anyway, right? (i already responded to "his" argument)...unless you wanna end up proving my "non-evidenced theory" right? On the other hand, if Resus-2 does turn out to be a different person, then you'd better hope that "they" continue responding to me; otherwise, you'll end up looking like a huge cowardly fraud...'kay bye, have fun wasting more of your time with me in your alt account, hahahahah! And you keep bringing that retarded argument again, wow, your comments keep getting dumber and dumber, you know I was actually going to bother responding to your essay but I won't anymore because I feel like I'm talking to a child here and I have no time for people like you. This will also be my last comment here, grow up. |
Resus-2 said: And you keep bringing that retarded argument again, wow, your comments keep getting dumber and dumber, you know I was actually going to bother responding to your essay but I won't anymore because I feel like I'm talking to a child here and I have no time for people like you. This will also be my last comment here, grow up. Heeeyyy, there he is, right on cue! Though it's a shame that, predictably, he only just so happens to come back so he can parrot @xZabuzax 's exact same final statements, right after he gave up as well..."your comments are dumb", "not gonna bother responding anymore", "you're not worth my time", yada yada... Man, it's actually kinda scary how you two have sooo much in common in your attitudes and manners of expression. Y'know, you should get in contact with him and hook up IRL or something. Heck, chances are you might even be long-lost twins! ...Stings, doesn't it? To be forced to respond back to me, just so that you can run away from me again, for the second time today. Sucks to be you, huh? hahahah! Good day, my lad. |
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