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May 22, 2019 8:59 PM

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AbuHumaid said:
@RE Give me one or two good reasons you're town.
All my mechanical planning has been done in favor of town. If I was scum and fake-planned it out so that amnesiac could take Wisp's role, I did not want Wisp dead. I'd want him alive until the amnesiac was dead, because sensor was the strongest role in the game and letting town have one more shot of that would practically confirm a town win. And either you don't clear Mishu as town, or you clear him and credit me for encouraging people to not lynch ironace until he used his redirect.

Do you think my meta of anxiety and crumbling is something I chose to do as scum? It's not at all. In that situation, it wasn't THAT clear I was scum. In fact, osie had me a strong townread, and Cantrip had done nothing in the game up until that point. I could have pushed him for that, not unlike what you're doing here, as I subbed after the majority of scum had been caught and thus had very few interactions with them. The reason I didn't was because I gave up because of said anxiety. And I've already said it, you can accuse me of having gotten over that anxiety, but you can't compare my latest scum game and the game I'm playing right now and call them identical because I haven't crumbled here.

Frankly, I've seen scum ask that question more often town. You shouldn't be asking me why I'm town. Either you see it for yourself or you don't, or you're scum. The question's angled, as it's intended to look like solving but instead forces me to do the work while you can hand wave it all away.

Also, I was never talking about day 2 with regards to nearly being lynched, I was talking about day 3. If you're town, you should not be ignoring that part and calling the games identical. Yet you are.

Why are you ignoring Wisp clearing me and thinking you're scum, and rather strongly at that, while calling me scum because logic created a theory on me and yurkin? Why is logic weakly pointing fingers at me and yurkin somehow more incriminating of me, alone (for real, if you're using that, you should be calling yurkin out for it too), than Wisp clearing suspecting you pretty hard up until he died?
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 12:36 AM
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RE said:
AbuHumaid said:
@RE Give me one or two good reasons you're town.
All my mechanical planning has been done in favor of town. If I was scum and fake-planned it out so that amnesiac could take Wisp's role, I did not want Wisp dead. I'd want him alive until the amnesiac was dead, because sensor was the strongest role in the game and letting town have one more shot of that would practically confirm a town win. And either you don't clear Mishu as town, or you clear him and credit me for encouraging people to not lynch ironace until he used his redirect.

Do you think my meta of anxiety and crumbling is something I chose to do as scum? It's not at all. In that situation, it wasn't THAT clear I was scum. In fact, osie had me a strong townread, and Cantrip had done nothing in the game up until that point. I could have pushed him for that, not unlike what you're doing here, as I subbed after the majority of scum had been caught and thus had very few interactions with them. The reason I didn't was because I gave up because of said anxiety. And I've already said it, you can accuse me of having gotten over that anxiety, but you can't compare my latest scum game and the game I'm playing right now and call them identical because I haven't crumbled here.

Frankly, I've seen scum ask that question more often town. You shouldn't be asking me why I'm town. Either you see it for yourself or you don't, or you're scum. The question's angled, as it's intended to look like solving but instead forces me to do the work while you can hand wave it all away.

Also, I was never talking about day 2 with regards to nearly being lynched, I was talking about day 3. If you're town, you should not be ignoring that part and calling the games identical. Yet you are.

Why are you ignoring Wisp clearing me and thinking you're scum, and rather strongly at that, while calling me scum because logic created a theory on me and yurkin? Why is logic weakly pointing fingers at me and yurkin somehow more incriminating of me, alone (for real, if you're using that, you should be calling yurkin out for it too), than Wisp clearing suspecting you pretty hard up until he died?
All that mechanical planning turned out to be useless, because Sensor can be used only once, and honestly I was doubtful of my scumread on you, until I read your scum game on The Great Race, that's why I said your game here and on that game are identical, because you had "mechanical planning" posts there:
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1762283#msg56760091
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1762283#msg56757601
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1762283&show=50#msg56763677

Also, you should know this by now, usually, scum are the ones that talk about mechanics the most.

It's not something you choose to for sure, but you can control yourself to not show it, but that won't hold for too long, I'll keep arguing until you breakdown.
And no, Cantrip made a big towny post, yes he hadn't done anything up until that point, but he had proved himself at last, so a scumread on him for lurking would have been weak and futile, Osie had you as town, but ultimately voted you, by PoE, because he picked up on Cantrip towniness.

It's a legit question, but nice try to shade me. I have been solving all game, I single-handedly devastated the scum team.

You weren't "almost lynched" on D3, you were actually lynched, you were "almost lynched" on D2, which wasn't really almost lynched, as I said, go read that game again.

Where did Wisp clear you? He just had you as a townread, and as I said, Wisp didn't scumread me, he was tinfoiling me, but of course you're gonna ignore that fact because it doesn't help your purpose.
And yet again, you're ignoring that logic had you in his PoE, and understate his suspicions of you. You're guilty of the same thing you're accusing me of.
I've already explained why yurkin is town, her town points "beat" her scum points, but you? You have no town points at all.

Now tell me, how is this post a "hard suspicion"?
_Wisp said:
AbuHumaid said:
Doesn't make sense, if I'm scum and not Jailer, why would I cc at that point? That's suicide, but whatever, I know Awa won't flip Jailer for sure.
the tinfoil technically only made sense in the world where kiana was scum, but you can still be the JK and still be scum
May 23, 2019 12:37 AM
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@yurkin @Mishukax promise me you will lynch RE, if I die tonight.
May 23, 2019 12:40 AM
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@RE, also I challenge you to tell me why Wisp suspected me.
(He had no reason at all)
May 23, 2019 12:42 AM
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While logic had all the reasons to suspect you, he was killed before he could voice it though, unfortunately.
May 23, 2019 8:01 AM

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AbuHumaid said:
All that mechanical planning turned out to be useless, because Sensor can be used only once, and honestly I was doubtful of my scumread on you, until I read your scum game on The Great Race, that's why I said your game here and on that game are identical, because you had "mechanical planning" posts there:
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1762283#msg56760091
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1762283#msg56757601
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1762283&show=50#msg56763677

Also, you should know this by now, usually, scum are the ones that talk about mechanics the most.
If my mechanics talk is useless, why are you suspecting me over Mishu? Why is Mishu cleared over me? It's not because of behavior, that's for sure. Since a ton of you were suspecting him.

And that's completely false, actually. Osie talked about mechanics just as much in the game I linked. I've also talked just as much about mechanics as behavior, so your point is moot. It's not that scum talk about mechanics, it's that they talk SOLELY about mechanics. Town can discuss mechanics as long as they discuss behavior too.
It's not something you choose to for sure, but you can control yourself to not show it, but that won't hold for too long, I'll keep arguing until you breakdown.
Good luck with that. Because if you're town, you've thrown the game away with your tunnel and have given me no choice but to lynch you instead.
And no, Cantrip made a big towny post, yes he hadn't done anything up until that point, but he had proved himself at last, so a scumread on him for lurking would have been weak and futile, Osie had you as town, but ultimately voted you, by PoE, because he picked up on Cantrip towniness.
There is no such thing as a big towny post. It's EASY for scum to write walls. He didn't pick up on Cantrip's towniness. He picked up on me giving up.
It's a legit question, but nice try to shade me. I have been solving all game, I single-handedly devastated the scum team.
No, you didn't. You sheeped the vote AND reasoning on Eyeh. You didn't catch aa-dono, Wisp did.
You weren't "almost lynched" on D3, you were actually lynched, you were "almost lynched" on D2, which wasn't really almost lynched, as I said, go read that game again.
I don't need to read the game again. I PLAYED that game. Nearly lynched can turn into actually lynched. And the two games continue to not be identical, because I haven't crumbled. If you can't admit that that's a significant difference between the two games, then you're lying about my meta.
Where did Wisp clear you? He just had you as a townread, and as I said, Wisp didn't scumread me, he was tinfoiling me, but of course you're gonna ignore that fact because it doesn't help your purpose.
I quoted a number of posts where he suspected you. It wasn't a tinfoil. It was definitely a scumread.
And yet again, you're ignoring that logic had you in his PoE, and understate his suspicions of you. You're guilty of the same thing you're accusing me of.
Nah, not at all. Wisp's suspicion of you was FAR stronger than logic's suspicion of me. logic brought up the theory, but didn't pursue it.
I've already explained why yurkin is town, her town points "beat" her scum points, but you? You have no town points at all.
Actually, I explained yurkin's points, but not like you were going to give me credit. I also told you earlier that day 2, I was the first to explain why we should be lynching Kiana instead of aa-dono, a point which you actually called fair.
Now tell me, how is this post a "hard suspicion"?
_Wisp said:
the tinfoil technically only made sense in the world where kiana was scum, but you can still be the JK and still be scum
Do you want me to requote the posts Wisp suspected you, without the spoiler? Because now you're just cherrypicking, if you're ignoring everything else he said about you.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 8:36 AM

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This is where I would rather lynch Kiana over aa-dono, and I stick to it despite having doubts due to Kiana's posts:
RE said:
Well, it's also possible Kiana is lying about aa-dono claiming that she was the jailkeeper. In fact, that makes a hell of a lot more sense than awa claiming a role that doesn't belong to her. This way, Kiana buys herself one more day, and mislynches awa, who would have been nearly confirmed town otherwise.

At least this way, it's confirmed that there is scum between them.

No idea how much time is left in the phase. It's pretty vital for aa-dono to post though, if she's town.
RE said:
logic340 said:
i feel like this is a bit of a stretch. Some of these aren't really shading at all just hin stating his opinions.
Shade can be opinions. It all depends on how it adds up. If they're reactive comments that don't tie into anything else, that's scummy.

~~

It doesn't make any sense to me why Awa would lie about being jailkeeper. I'm going to

unvote: aa-dono

For now. If there's one thing scum won't do in this set up, it's lie to another player about their role. That's a lie that can easily be called out if revealed in public.
RE said:
AbuHumaid said:
Awa feels MUCH more genuine than Kiana.
I agree, lol...

Well, thankfully there was no majority this game.

vote: Kiana
RE said:
Phase change is at 12 pm for me, I should be up by then to change my vote if need be.

Abu frequently changing his vote is kinda townie.

Kind of sucks that awa is sick. (Feel better!)
But also sucks in the way that her lack of posting could just be a way of avoiding spewing her buddy.

The reason why awa lying about her role makes no sense is because if she lied about it, she did it at a time when she and Kiana weren't in a dichotomy, during night 1, I'm presuming. If it ever came out in the open, that'd be a scum claim. It was suicidal at a time there was no need to be suicidal.
Kiana lying about what awa claimed makes more sense, due to timing. Either Kiana is town, or she's dead scum walking. At this point, whichever the scum is between them is aiming for damage control - as little spew as possible, and lynching the other player first. So lying about someone's claim, and incriminating them by having another player counterclaim them, is one way of doing that.

Would be nice for everyone to check in, just to confirm that awa isn't lying about her watcher claim.


You voted Kiana after Wisp and I voted Kiana. After the tides turned, you couldn't go against the flow. But then you switch your vote for no reason other than "it's a gamble", because aa-dono is the better lynch for scum than Kiana:
AbuHumaid said:
Vote: Kiana

Unconvincing arguments (some of her post made me think she's trolling tbh), flustered, all over the place.

Yes Awa voted Phraze and seemed like she's trying to save Eyeh, but at least her tone has been very towny, unlike Kiana.
AbuHumaid said:
Vote: aa-dono

It's gambling at this point, either of them can be scum.

Where Mishu sheeps my reasoning:
Mishukax said:
But right now I'm not moving my vote. Mafia doesn't claim another egg than theirs and dono's summary of how she claimed watcher in the secret chat makes sense to me. Part of me wants to check dono's egg tonight but that would just be stalling this issue.


^That's why I'm town. I don't expect anyone to believe me for this alone. But that's why I'm town, and that's why you have a pretty big chance of being scum, because your behavior day 2 was angled in that you always wanted aa-dono lynched before Kiana, because at that point you knew Kiana was Lost Bunny and so having her cleared would raise scum's chances of winning immensely.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 9:13 AM

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RE is mafia for saying I sheep her
May 23, 2019 9:57 AM

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Mishukax said:
RE is mafia for saying I sheep her
Fine, here's a more accurate depiction:


where my reasoning is the food and you are the creature snapping at it after it's fallen
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 10:04 AM

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@yurkin @RE @Mishukax @AbuHumaid

🐰 Day 7 🐰

No one has been killed

Modnote: Since there has been a no lynch followed by a no kill, I am invoking one of Osie’s rules in order to prevent a loop.

ToDay, if a no lynch is reached again, a random town player will killed instead.

In other words, this will be the final day of this game. Good luck to all.

As an extra reminder, there is a 24 hour extension available that has not yet been used. I’ll grant the extension if half the players request it.

It is now Day 7. The game will end in 24 hours, on May 24th at 1:00 PM EST.

>>Day 7 Timer<<
TogsMay 23, 2019 3:02 PM
May 23, 2019 10:29 AM

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Nice one RE, I'm eating some nice juicy sausage right now though.
I'll be home in... a couple of hours, but not for long. Will be busy this phase.
May 23, 2019 10:37 AM

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Well, I'll be visiting a friend of my mom's for a couple hours. I feel like I have no option but to vote Abu here, but NKA kind of points to yurkin too. I'll try to reevaluate but not sure if I'll come to any conclusion other than she's still town.

To be back later.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 11:02 AM

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What is NKA?

Do you have axolotl videos for Abu and yurkin? I like over-simplified metaphors and would like to use them for my reads.

I like your lack of options RE, yurkin's vote seems like it could move around so I think scum would actually keep a lynch on me possible. While scum Abu can't do that because of his background with townreading me.

As for my own options I read the mafia game that Abu underlined and I still think he's making sense, but the whole argument you two had gave me a headache so I don't want to take this into account too much, just know I don't think Abu is pushing forward a lie. And it's good that I shove this issue aside because I don't like reading off of meta, I think there are too many variables that can affect one's play from one game to the other as scum and town, but I can see meta being reliable for people who are not overly careful and I do use it from time to time. I won't use it here though because I don't get half of what you guys are talking about.

Thankfully I have other reasons to vote you over the others, the main being I townread the others.

Do look into yurkin, as I've stated I'm statisfied with their D1 and D2, plus I can only remember trivial problems from D3 onwards, but I'm curious about what you could have to say. In other words do the work for me pls.
May 23, 2019 11:09 AM

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Oh right, RE had the D2 vote going for her.
RE said:
your behavior day 2 was angled in that you always wanted aa-dono lynched before Kiana, because at that point you knew Kiana was Lost Bunny and so having her cleared would raise scum's chances of winning immensely.

I don't see it, I don't think Abu always wanted dono lynched before Kiana, and it's especially not convicing when you quote posts where he thinks any lynch is fine and he could go for any.
May 23, 2019 11:13 AM

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I just realized something about the LB. Will confirm when I'm home.
There's also one other thing I want to do before I vote, but don't expect an elaborate read, I think I'm almost done with this game.
May 23, 2019 11:16 AM

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It's pretty simple, I think. The main difference between my scum and town games is I give up more easily as scum. That's reflective in the game I linked. But good to know my scum game really isn't different on a micro scale ;0

Thing about yurkin is I'd have expected her to be the kill last night, and the night before. There's also logic's theory that PoE'd me and her, and Phraze wanting to lynch her, both who are dead now.
Other than that, I think she's still pretty townie, so I still lean to Abu, but her behavior today should be telling too. It's also possible scum (Abu, at this point), decided to no kill, since even if a yurkin kill was "obvious," it's still information that can help town.

About Abu, I actually think his behavior day 2 is the most telling. I don't think the way he switched from Kiana to aa-dono was done naturally.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 11:21 AM

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NKA = night kill analysis
Videos to come later, maybe
Mishukax said:
Oh right, RE had the D2 vote going for her.
RE said:
your behavior day 2 was angled in that you always wanted aa-dono lynched before Kiana, because at that point you knew Kiana was Lost Bunny and so having her cleared would raise scum's chances of winning immensely.

I don't see it, I don't think Abu always wanted dono lynched before Kiana, and it's especially not convicing when you quote posts where he thinks any lynch is fine and he could go for any.
Except that's obviously not the case. Any lynch wasn't fine. One was town (or lost bunny), the other scum. He had reason to vote Kiana. He switched to aa-dono with minimal reasoning.
In any case, "any lynch is fine" is not town mentality, when the two appeared to be in a dichotomy.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 11:24 AM

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If Abu didn't want aa-dono lynched before Kiana, why did he vote aa-dono? Why switch from Kiana to aa-dono?
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 11:37 AM

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Against what kind of pressure are you likely to give up as scum? I don't think there ever was a reason to give up on this game for scum RE, so it makes sense that you didn't
May 23, 2019 11:39 AM

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I also expected yurkin or me to die, scum likely wants our votes in some way, or are keeping us alive for reasons I can't fathom.
May 23, 2019 11:42 AM

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RE said:
If Abu didn't want aa-dono lynched before Kiana, why did he vote aa-dono? Why switch from Kiana to aa-dono?

It's not that he didn't want to... and it's not like "not wanting aa-dono to get lynched" is something that confirms you as town enough to defend it
May 23, 2019 11:51 AM

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Mishukax said:
RE said:
If Abu didn't want aa-dono lynched before Kiana, why did he vote aa-dono? Why switch from Kiana to aa-dono?

It's not that he didn't want to... and it's not like "not wanting aa-dono to get lynched" is something that confirms you as town enough to defend it
Well, that's not what I was arguing. Already said that I don't expect anyone to believe that part.
It comes down to whether you think he was justified in that vote switch.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 11:54 AM

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Mishukax said:
Against what kind of pressure are you likely to give up as scum? I don't think there ever was a reason to give up on this game for scum RE, so it makes sense that you didn't
There wasn't a reason for me to give up in that game either. I had Osie pocketed. I needed one more mislynch to win.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 12:05 PM

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Okay, you guys entertain me over here:
What if scum didn't know Kiana was the LB?
May 23, 2019 12:10 PM

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Mishukax said:
Okay, you guys entertain me over here:
What if scum didn't know Kiana was the LB?
Scum would have known when Kiana claimed that aa-dono claimed jailkeeper. Don't think that's something she'd lie about in the chat (or even announce).
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 12:58 PM

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Maybe they didn't catch that and just wanted Kiana lynched over dono because they thought she was town
May 23, 2019 1:04 PM
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Vote: RE

I'll be back in a little bit.
May 23, 2019 2:03 PM
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RE said:
AbuHumaid said:
All that mechanical planning turned out to be useless, because Sensor can be used only once, and honestly I was doubtful of my scumread on you, until I read your scum game on The Great Race, that's why I said your game here and on that game are identical, because you had "mechanical planning" posts there:
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1762283#msg56760091
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1762283#msg56757601
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1762283&show=50#msg56763677

Also, you should know this by now, usually, scum are the ones that talk about mechanics the most.
If my mechanics talk is useless, why are you suspecting me over Mishu? Why is Mishu cleared over me? It's not because of behavior, that's for sure. Since a ton of you were suspecting him.

And that's completely false, actually. Osie talked about mechanics just as much in the game I linked. I've also talked just as much about mechanics as behavior, so your point is moot. It's not that scum talk about mechanics, it's that they talk SOLELY about mechanics. Town can discuss mechanics as long as they discuss behavior too.
It's not something you choose to for sure, but you can control yourself to not show it, but that won't hold for too long, I'll keep arguing until you breakdown.
Good luck with that. Because if you're town, you've thrown the game away with your tunnel and have given me no choice but to lynch you instead.
And no, Cantrip made a big towny post, yes he hadn't done anything up until that point, but he had proved himself at last, so a scumread on him for lurking would have been weak and futile, Osie had you as town, but ultimately voted you, by PoE, because he picked up on Cantrip towniness.
There is no such thing as a big towny post. It's EASY for scum to write walls. He didn't pick up on Cantrip's towniness. He picked up on me giving up.
It's a legit question, but nice try to shade me. I have been solving all game, I single-handedly devastated the scum team.
No, you didn't. You sheeped the vote AND reasoning on Eyeh. You didn't catch aa-dono, Wisp did.
You weren't "almost lynched" on D3, you were actually lynched, you were "almost lynched" on D2, which wasn't really almost lynched, as I said, go read that game again.
I don't need to read the game again. I PLAYED that game. Nearly lynched can turn into actually lynched. And the two games continue to not be identical, because I haven't crumbled. If you can't admit that that's a significant difference between the two games, then you're lying about my meta.
Where did Wisp clear you? He just had you as a townread, and as I said, Wisp didn't scumread me, he was tinfoiling me, but of course you're gonna ignore that fact because it doesn't help your purpose.
I quoted a number of posts where he suspected you. It wasn't a tinfoil. It was definitely a scumread.
And yet again, you're ignoring that logic had you in his PoE, and understate his suspicions of you. You're guilty of the same thing you're accusing me of.
Nah, not at all. Wisp's suspicion of you was FAR stronger than logic's suspicion of me. logic brought up the theory, but didn't pursue it.
I've already explained why yurkin is town, her town points "beat" her scum points, but you? You have no town points at all.
Actually, I explained yurkin's points, but not like you were going to give me credit. I also told you earlier that day 2, I was the first to explain why we should be lynching Kiana instead of aa-dono, a point which you actually called fair.
Now tell me, how is this post a "hard suspicion"?
Do you want me to requote the posts Wisp suspected you, without the spoiler? Because now you're just cherrypicking, if you're ignoring everything else he said about you.
Mishu is mechanically cleared because I jailed him, you are not mechanically cleared.

If it's not you, then who is it? It's definitely not me, and I know it.

Osie did pick up on Cantrip towniness, he literally said "I see Cantrip's post, which leaves RE" in his Hyku, you gave up because you were by PoE and there was no way out, unlike here, here you can argue your way out.

I was actually the first to pick up on Eyeh's scumminess, and I had my own reason for suspecting him:


And only a scum like yourself would ignore the fact that I caught Awa before all the sensor stuff, I even told Wisp to check Kiana and Awa:


My town points outweigh my non-existent scum points, and you know it, but you can't admit it because it's as good as a scum claim for you, because you have absolutely nothing that a scum can't do.

Also, Wisp's LATEST post about me, he says his 'read' on me was tinfoil.
He never made a case or read against me, even in the posts you quoted, he was just throwing accusations and throwing suspicions he never explained.
Btw, you didn't explain, why exactly do you think Wisp suspected me? (hint: he had no reason at all) and yes, quote me those non-existent posts of Wisp where he hard scumread me.
You didn't answer my questions: Where. Did. Wisp. Clear. You?
If I was scum, why would I NK Lucian who had me as lock town?
If I was scum, why would I NK logic who had me as lock town?
If I was scum, why would I NK Phraze who had me high in her town reads?

logic was suspecting you, you killed him, period.

Other than the crumbling, your game on Great Race and here are identical, I actually said your posts are identical, not your games.
May 23, 2019 2:05 PM

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🐰 Vote Count 7.0 🐰


RE (1) - AbuHumaid

Not Voting (3) - RE, Yurkin, Mishukax

>>Day 7 Timer<<
May 23, 2019 2:12 PM
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RE said:
This is where I would rather lynch Kiana over aa-dono, and I stick to it despite having doubts due to Kiana's posts:
RE said:
Well, it's also possible Kiana is lying about aa-dono claiming that she was the jailkeeper. In fact, that makes a hell of a lot more sense than awa claiming a role that doesn't belong to her. This way, Kiana buys herself one more day, and mislynches awa, who would have been nearly confirmed town otherwise.

At least this way, it's confirmed that there is scum between them.

No idea how much time is left in the phase. It's pretty vital for aa-dono to post though, if she's town.
RE said:
Shade can be opinions. It all depends on how it adds up. If they're reactive comments that don't tie into anything else, that's scummy.

~~

It doesn't make any sense to me why Awa would lie about being jailkeeper. I'm going to

unvote: aa-dono

For now. If there's one thing scum won't do in this set up, it's lie to another player about their role. That's a lie that can easily be called out if revealed in public.
RE said:
I agree, lol...

Well, thankfully there was no majority this game.

vote: Kiana
RE said:
Phase change is at 12 pm for me, I should be up by then to change my vote if need be.

Abu frequently changing his vote is kinda townie.

Kind of sucks that awa is sick. (Feel better!)
But also sucks in the way that her lack of posting could just be a way of avoiding spewing her buddy.

The reason why awa lying about her role makes no sense is because if she lied about it, she did it at a time when she and Kiana weren't in a dichotomy, during night 1, I'm presuming. If it ever came out in the open, that'd be a scum claim. It was suicidal at a time there was no need to be suicidal.
Kiana lying about what awa claimed makes more sense, due to timing. Either Kiana is town, or she's dead scum walking. At this point, whichever the scum is between them is aiming for damage control - as little spew as possible, and lynching the other player first. So lying about someone's claim, and incriminating them by having another player counterclaim them, is one way of doing that.

Would be nice for everyone to check in, just to confirm that awa isn't lying about her watcher claim.


You voted Kiana after Wisp and I voted Kiana. After the tides turned, you couldn't go against the flow. But then you switch your vote for no reason other than "it's a gamble", because aa-dono is the better lynch for scum than Kiana:
AbuHumaid said:
Vote: Kiana

Unconvincing arguments (some of her post made me think she's trolling tbh), flustered, all over the place.

Yes Awa voted Phraze and seemed like she's trying to save Eyeh, but at least her tone has been very towny, unlike Kiana.
AbuHumaid said:
Vote: aa-dono

It's gambling at this point, either of them can be scum.

Where Mishu sheeps my reasoning:
Mishukax said:
But right now I'm not moving my vote. Mafia doesn't claim another egg than theirs and dono's summary of how she claimed watcher in the secret chat makes sense to me. Part of me wants to check dono's egg tonight but that would just be stalling this issue.


^That's why I'm town. I don't expect anyone to believe me for this alone. But that's why I'm town, and that's why you have a pretty big chance of being scum, because your behavior day 2 was angled in that you always wanted aa-dono lynched before Kiana, because at that point you knew Kiana was Lost Bunny and so having her cleared would raise scum's chances of winning immensely.
Fuck your D2 behavior, that is not alignment indicative in the slightest. In fact, you sticking to your vote is scummy more than anything, you said it yourself:
RE said:
Abu frequently changing his vote is kinda townie.


And I was obviously confused in D2 because of Awa's and Kiana's argument, you weren't confused because you're scum.
May 23, 2019 2:14 PM
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Mishukax said:
Okay, you guys entertain me over here:
What if scum didn't know Kiana was the LB?
Very likely, knowing how Awa reacted to Kiana, it seemed like there was nothing planned.
May 23, 2019 2:26 PM
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Also, Phraze was voting Awa with me, did that make her scum?
May 23, 2019 2:31 PM

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May 23, 2019 3:24 PM

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AbuHumaid said:
Mishukax said:
Okay, you guys entertain me over here:
What if scum didn't know Kiana was the LB?
Very likely, knowing how Awa reacted to Kiana, it seemed like there was nothing planned.
Nothing planned doesn't mean anything. It's possible scum didn't know during the night, but the moment Kiana claimed that awa claimed a role that didn't belong to her, scum must have known, unless awa actually lied about her role which is extremely unlikely. Kiana knew that awa was scum once Wisp gave his results. If you disagree, give me a good reason awa lies about her role to a player she doesn't know is on her side.

Will respond to everything when I get back to the comp.

~~

If yurkin doesn't post something of value today, I'll vote her. Otherwise my vote goes onto Abu no matter his alignment because he's left me no choice.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 3:29 PM

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AbuHumaid said:
Also, Phraze was voting Awa with me, did that make her scum?
Phraze is someone you sort not by her reasoning or actions but her motivation. She also voted ironace that day. It's not just the fact you voted awa, it's that you switched votes with little justification.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 3:38 PM

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Logic was also suspecting yurkin. Phraze wanted to lynch yurkin. Phraze had me as a townread and I killed her.. why?

If Wisp wasn't tinfoiling you, who was his actual suspect? He kept saying your name up until he died.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 6:31 PM

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AbuHumaid said:
Mishu is mechanically cleared because I jailed him, you are not mechanically cleared.

If it's not you, then who is it? It's definitely not me, and I know it.
Nah, he's semi-mechanically cleared because you jailed him AND I suggested we leave ironace alive to redirect someone. He's not fully mechanically cleared, but at this point we might as well be treating him as much, which kind of sucks, but I doubt it'd make a difference with your tunnel of me.

It's either you or yurkin. yurkin has been townier than you. Her train of thoughts have been more organic whereas you've been hopping all over the place. But she also doesn't have as strong of an association with any of the flipped scum, and tbh NKA points to her even more than you. So it's vital that she start posting, otherwise I'm either going to be forced to vote you (regardless of whether I think you're scum or not), or I vote her because she's playing exactly how I would expect scum would play in MyLo/LyLo. Staying on the sidelines.
Osie did pick up on Cantrip towniness, he literally said "I see Cantrip's post, which leaves RE" in his Hyku, you gave up because you were by PoE and there was no way out, unlike here, here you can argue your way out.
That's not true. There was no "PoE" in that game, because at the time, no one had been lynched. There were no associations. I could have fought my way out of it, if I didn't have feelings of anxiety and boredom as I usually do while playing as scum. Not to mention I started posting less once grrr's lynch was sealed, before EoD2. I practically stopped solving by then. I haven't stopped solving here, no matter who was getting lynched.
You're also forgetting something important. Even if the posts in this game resemble that of my scum game, are you using a town game of mine as a basis as well? Because I also know that I am town. yurkin has played with me as town many times recently. Yet she has never called me out for having different posts from my town game. If you're going to use a scum game as a reference, how do you know my town game isn't also just the same?
I was actually the first to pick up on Eyeh's scumminess, and I had my own reason for suspecting him:
Bussing isn't out of the question for you. It honestly isn't. And either way, your vote on Eyeh was a sheep vote.
And only a scum like yourself would ignore the fact that I caught Awa before all the sensor stuff, I even told Wisp to check Kiana and Awa:


My town points outweigh my non-existent scum points, and you know it, but you can't admit it because it's as good as a scum claim for you, because you have absolutely nothing that a scum can't do.

Also, Wisp's LATEST post about me, he says his 'read' on me was tinfoil.
He never made a case or read against me, even in the posts you quoted, he was just throwing accusations and throwing suspicions he never explained.
Btw, you didn't explain, why exactly do you think Wisp suspected me? (hint: he had no reason at all) and yes, quote me those non-existent posts of Wisp where he hard scumread me.
You didn't answer my questions: Where. Did. Wisp. Clear. You?
If I was scum, why would I NK Lucian who had me as lock town?
If I was scum, why would I NK logic who had me as lock town?
If I was scum, why would I NK Phraze who had me high in her town reads?

logic was suspecting you, you killed him, period.

Other than the crumbling, your game on Great Race and here are identical, I actually said your posts are identical, not your games.
Oh please. If you're so towny, why haven't you been killed yet? Why was Phraze killed over you? Why were Roy and Wisp killed over you? Why was logic killed over you?

And dude, that is Wisp's playstyle. He didn't need to write an elaborate case on you. He didn't need to explain anything. He was townread enough for people to sheep him.

I did answer that question, even before you asked. Guessing you didn't read all the posts Wisp made against you. I quoted a post where he listed a PoE that did not include me. He said to lynch in that PoE. Hence, he cleared me.

If I was scum, why do I kill Wisp, who excluded me from his PoE, when he could lynch you?
If I was scum, why do I kill Phraze who was defending me constantly?

But... I'm starting to come around. yurkin's silence is telling. But your tunnel is going to lead to a town loss, one way or another.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 6:35 PM

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AbuHumaid said:
RE said:
This is where I would rather lynch Kiana over aa-dono, and I stick to it despite having doubts due to Kiana's posts:


You voted Kiana after Wisp and I voted Kiana. After the tides turned, you couldn't go against the flow. But then you switch your vote for no reason other than "it's a gamble", because aa-dono is the better lynch for scum than Kiana:

Where Mishu sheeps my reasoning:


^That's why I'm town. I don't expect anyone to believe me for this alone. But that's why I'm town, and that's why you have a pretty big chance of being scum, because your behavior day 2 was angled in that you always wanted aa-dono lynched before Kiana, because at that point you knew Kiana was Lost Bunny and so having her cleared would raise scum's chances of winning immensely.
Fuck your D2 behavior, that is not alignment indicative in the slightest. In fact, you sticking to your vote is scummy more than anything, you said it yourself:
RE said:
Abu frequently changing his vote is kinda townie.


And I was obviously confused in D2 because of Awa's and Kiana's argument, you weren't confused because you're scum.
Cool, I guess that speaks volumes about your inability to read me.

I also didn't camp my vote anywhere. I voted awa first. Then I switched to Kiana after Kiana made accused awa of doing something that made no sense regardless of either alignment. You not realizing I switched my vote around that day that is a symptom of tunnel vision.

I was also reaching for reasons to townread you. I was worried that you pinging me all over the place would lead to me scumreading you incorrectly. For as many times as I've caught you as scum I've also mislynched you. How the tides have turned.

I wasn't confused because it was pretty fucking obvious who was the one lying in that situation.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 7:16 PM

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Ugh, I actually don't know :I

yurkin's been extremely townie :I
Abu has the stronger interactions with scum :I

I guess none of this matters if Abu refuses to reconsider anything.
So really need yurkin to post :I
Mishu for that matter too. The game cannot be won with only two people fighting.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 7:24 PM

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Yurkin doesn't feel like posting do you you have some questions for me :3
May 23, 2019 7:42 PM
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Sigh

The more I argue with RE, the less I believe she's scum.

I'll be back later.
May 23, 2019 7:43 PM

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@RE
>So it's vital that she start posting, otherwise I'm either going to be forced to vote you (regardless of whether I think you're scum or not), or I vote her because she's playing exactly how I would expect scum would play in MyLo/LyLo. Staying on the sidelines

Why would you have to vote Abu if you conclude he's town? I think I understand what you're saying but...
Also, I don't think staying on the sidelines is that scummy when the two most likely scum are at each other's throats. I don't know what yurkin has in mind, but personally, I already said what I had to say about the whole exchange you and Abu had, and I would only comment further if something really ticked me off. I've never had a vote this important, so I will have a hard time sleeping on it tonight. RE responded well to Abu's accusations, so I'm starting to see some town in her. But someone has to be scum, and I gotta find them. I will reread yurkin's D1 tomorrow. That day was the main reason I townread her after the Kiana flip.
yurkin said:
Yurkin doesn't feel like posting do you you have some questions for me :3

"That's kinda scummy yo"
Is what I would say if I didn't feel the same
May 23, 2019 7:45 PM

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We have an extension but I don't think I want it. We'll see tomorrow.
May 23, 2019 8:03 PM

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Mishukax said:
Why would you have to vote Abu if you conclude he's town? I think I understand what you're saying but...
Because it's either going to be a mislynch, or it's going to be a rand between the 4 living players (so 25% chance of hitting scum), if I don't vote the person voting me.
Also, I don't think staying on the sidelines is that scummy when the two most likely scum are at each other's throats.
And who decided that? Not me, that's for sure. Not Abu, that's for sure. From our perspectives, we're town. When there's only one scum left, everyone's input has the same value. Would you disagree that scum in MyLo, or LyLo, stay quiet while town argue with each other? Is that not how scum tend to play, anyway?
And I've played a couple games while there was only one scum remaining. They do one of two things. They keep their options open, while letting town fight town, or they focus on one player specifically, also while letting town fight town. That is how scum win, when they play solo. They stay on the sidelines, away from the spotlight, while town eat each other alive. (Unless they're the powerwolfy type. But even then why do work when town can do you work for you.)
yurkin said:
Yurkin doesn't feel like posting do you you have some questions for me :3

"That's kinda scummy yo"
Is what I would say if I didn't feel the same
Really? Then...

Here's questions for you (yurkin and Mishu).
Should we be relying on NKA? If so, to any extent, what does NKA tell us?
Does Abu buss D1/D2? While scum CAN buss, he's kind of bussed all his partners throughout the game. I know he's done this before, shading and all, but I haven't seen it to this extent, from him at least. Tingle, in Vanilla Mafia, hardbussed Dias D1, lynched him, and endgamed, so it's a workable strategy, which is why I haven't cleared him for that. But it is the one thing in his favor.

Here's questions for Abu.
What prompted you to switch your vote off Kiana and onto aa-dono Day 2? Did you see my reasoning on why Kiana was likely the one lying? If so, why lynch her and call it a coinflip (something along those lines)?
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 8:07 PM

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AbuHumaid said:
Sigh

The more I argue with RE, the less I believe she's scum.

I'll be back later.
You need to explain these beliefs of yours. You said the same about ironace (not getting scum vibes from him). Something had to trigger it all.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
May 23, 2019 9:08 PM
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RE said:
Does Abu buss D1/D2? While scum CAN buss, he's kind of bussed all his partners throughout the game. I know he's done this before
Link me one game where I bussed just one teammate who wasn't outted, I'll be waiting, this is why I'm having my doubts townreading you, you're shading and lying about me beyond belief.
RE said:
Here's questions for Abu.
What prompted you to switch your vote off Kiana and onto aa-dono Day 2? Did you see my reasoning on why Kiana was likely the one lying? If so, why lynch her and call it a coinflip (something along those lines)?
Idk, I guess I was pocketed by Kiana's posts after Awa vanished from the thread after arguing, and I felt bad for her.
RE said:
AbuHumaid said:
Also, Phraze was voting Awa with me, did that make her scum?
Phraze is someone you sort not by her reasoning or actions but her motivation. She also voted ironace that day. It's not just the fact you voted awa, it's that you switched votes with little justification.
This is false, Phraze voted Awa with little justification too, and what was her motivation exactly?
May 23, 2019 9:10 PM
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@RE I'll use the same argument against you, why aren't you killed yet? I thought you're a good town player and always get killed early, you must be scum.
May 23, 2019 9:19 PM
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RE said:
Oh please. If you're so towny, why haven't you been killed yet? Why was Phraze killed over you? Why were Roy and Wisp killed over you? Why was logic killed over you?

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/19542-Super-Smash-Bros-Ultimate-Mash

This is a mash where I was confirmed town, not just towny, confirmed, and I stayed alive until N5.
May 23, 2019 9:42 PM
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I'll backread yurkin, if I find nothing alarming, I'll stay on RE.
May 23, 2019 11:04 PM

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AbuHumaid said:
RE said:
Does Abu buss D1/D2? While scum CAN buss, he's kind of bussed all his partners throughout the game. I know he's done this before
Link me one game where I bussed just one teammate who wasn't outted, I'll be waiting, this is why I'm having my doubts townreading you, you're shading and lying about me beyond belief.
You agreed with Astros' post on FTF in the Desserts Mafia game. FTF was the one who endgamed, so he wasn't actually outted. You also shaded me a lot in Little Witch Academia, when we were both scum. That's off the top of my head.
This is false, Phraze voted Awa with little justification too, and what was her motivation exactly?
That's what I mean though. I respect Phraze's ability to catch scum, but I don't always understand how she gets to the conclusions she does. I'm not holding you and her by the same standards because I know already me not understanding her is perfectly NAI. Whereas with you, I should at least expect to understand how you get from one thought to the next thought, and not just it being left as "vibes." "The more I argue with RE, the less I believe she's scum" - why? You've made statements expressing read development, but I'm not understanding how you get from one point to the next.
AbuHumaid said:
RE said:
Oh please. If you're so towny, why haven't you been killed yet? Why was Phraze killed over you? Why were Roy and Wisp killed over you? Why was logic killed over you?

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/19542-Super-Smash-Bros-Ultimate-Mash

This is a mash where I was confirmed town, not just towny, confirmed, and I stayed alive until N5.
It's not just townie either. It's about posing a threat to scum. You've claimed you're responsible for catching and lynching scum, and I see that, to a degree. So why was Phraze killed before you?
In that game, did you catch scum? Were your reads on point? Were you just confirmed, in a game while a ton of people were still alive, or were you herding town to lynch scum? The latter will get you killed first.
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not.
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