Kiana_Kaslana said: I'm thinking either one could be with Tainted, tho the proximity in voting holds me back.Phraze said: Wolf and FTF stands out on Marlu train too. tho scum voting together is rare? Not rare but do u think FTF and wolf is wolf? |
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LucianRoy said: well, scum usually avoid risky voting on d1, at least subconsciously. it's not that associative a read. tho I tend to rely on those nglPhraze said: Wolf and FTF stands out on Marlu train too. tho scum voting together is rare? It depends on the team. I've had teams that've orchestrated some pretty gutsy tandem voting before, so it's never out of the question, at least fmpov. Claims like these only really work if you think one of their interactions can be established as w/w. But prior to that, it's a bit of a pre-associative to make based solely off of vote history. |
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Kiana_Kaslana said: The reads of the neutral (lan > ? > ?) seem pretty legitimate too, maybe he might have PR/insider neutral hack info that influenced his read unlike us no-info towns. Is this supposed to justify this: Kiana_Kaslana said: Vote: Lan ? |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
| Alright, so good news, day isn't over at 4 AM. Bad news, it's instead in the middle of when I usually work, so still don't expect me to be around for those I suppose. Is majority not enabled still I take it? Have to say I was surprised Marluxion was lynched because I thought more people were townreading them before I left, me included. Though I suppose some of their interactions made more sense as a neutral than a Mafia. RE said: Kinda wish you could have tackled it then so I could have replied to any points that troubled you because welp. I admit that post I partly rushed out because I was heading to work if that was why, only made worse before other matters got in the way for me later in the day.Well I'm going to sleep :I Tainted had a lot of time to claim but he didn't. I also forgot to closely look at starpendle's #731 earlier. Tonally they are scum to me. For the same reasons as I read them as scum in Sweets. I didn't remember what it was exactly that struck me in that game but now I do, because I recognized it in that post. They lack that "oomph." Something to tackle not now though. LucianRoy said: Yeah, I was not a fan of Tainted's posts closer to end of day either. None of their posts felt as serious as they should have been with it so close to EoD reading back on it. One of my main problems with Re's argument for Tainted and thus I was more okay with Tainted at the time was I felt Re was overexaggerating a lot in some of her arguments, mainly when it came to meta and post-spamming. I guess I need to look things over with her death though.That EoD was so bogus wtf. Vote: Tainted Their slew of posts at EoD we're pretty gosh darn scummy too. Look at this: #818- Tainted sets ups a baseless, false dichotomy here between me and FTF in an attempt to shade me, and let me explain why. There is so much to unpack here. Why phrase it this way? Why not just directly say: 'because of his interactions with FTF, I find Lucian scummy'. instead of working around it backwards: "Roy probably isn't w/w with FTF // I doubt ftf is even wolf at all" The first part is an unsupported claim, (no explaination), which sets up a false dichotomy with me against FTF once they establish FTF is town is the second clause, (again, no explanation). For this to be good, wouldn't you have to explain why it isn't TvT? There's no consideration of that in this post at all. Because of this, I consider this subtle shading of me. The way it's phrased makes it beat around the bush, and doesn't sound like anything town would post imo. #819- This post is weird too. It doesn't say "I'm reading these people scum" it lines up the conclusion to their previous post on me, like it's a disclaimer for something already established, yet it isn't established, and wasn't established in their last post. It was hinted at. Another reason why I think that post was an attempt to shade me. I'm honestly doubtful if they can explain why they changed their mind here, but I guess it's worth a shot to ask? #820 Oh, come on, there is no way you can defend Mike here. Do you seriously have a TR on his slot? His post is obviously anti-town, and can be lumped in with the other strange and unnecessary things he's done this game. I felt like calling him out for it this time. So, in essence, all this seems like an attempt to line-up my lynch for toDay as an out, and this is ALSO inherently scummy to me. This part isn't as solid as the other things I've said, and it's slightly anecdotal, but I feel like the self-preservation vote Tainted made on Marl, is NOT NAI as self-pres often is. See, were I in Tainted shoes, and they go to the trouble of shading me as scum at EoD while voting Marl why not just push me at EoD? Why not take it a single step further and just CFD on me? That's what I would've done as town, and I would not have settled on a self-pres train I wasn't fully committed to. On top of that, Tainted's vote on Marl is a naked vote, and they do nothing to establish why he's scum/give thoughts from that point onward. It makes even more sense once you realize Marl literally only had 1 vote on him at that stage of the game. One last point I dug up that is unrelated to the former, but still notable imo: #675- Why would they beg Kiana for a read here? Reeks of desperation to me, like, 'please read me town and defend me!' rather than actually caring about what Kiana's read on themselves actually is. It's a weaker tell, but I found it off-putting. Also, phraze is right when he says their claim is sus, but for me it's mostly b/c they didn't paraphrase. This is an easy scum lynch in my book, and though I didn't go about the push with meta like RE did, I don't need it to come to a similar conclusion as her... twice. Kiana_Kaslana said: Are Lan and FTF your scumreads too? Along with me, Kiiruma, and others from your (random?) posts earlier? Why put so much faith into a neutral? vote:tainted He’s still pretty scummy and it looks like many people agree The reads of the neutral (lan > ? > ?) seem pretty legitimate too, maybe he might have PR/insider neutral hack info that influenced his read unlike us no-info towns. Waiting on DenjaX to elaborate more on their miller claim. Otherwise quite a few inactives... Karote said: What do people usually do to get you into the gameyurkin said: @Kiiruma thoughts? It's Sunday guess you may have more time to read the game @Karote still playing? XD Hello, what's up |
| I will say this I visted 2 people last night Kit and yurkin. |
| Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!! |
starpendle said: What do people usually do to get you into the game This is only one example, but Karote was about to eat rope D4 in guilty crown when he came back to the game, correctly called out every member of the scum team, and we all called his reads BS and hammered him b/c of the PoE pool we were pushing. That's one effective way of doing it, but it's pretty bad in theory and practice. You could just bait him into responding to one of your posts too. Or try your luck with a normal question.ha S/o to Karote's early non-lurk meta. Like, here we are over 5 years later. |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Dude_Mike said: I will say this I visted 2 people last night Kit and yurkin. Hi, who's scum? |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
| So, now thoses that are mafia will have to ask themselfs Why would I vist thoses 2. Also What roles is he that he can vist 2 people? OR is he bluffing baiting maifa to attck him to save the real PR roles? HMMMM Now lets watch and see the mafia scum paint me for todays lynch becuse they dont want to waist there time on a night kill on me. Town keep in mind If I was Mafia why bring heat on myself when I can just stay in the shadows and not risk a lynch. I hope town you see I am town with this play. And my wifom is real but it is on the mafia team. only question is what am I am i a VT? Am I baiting an attack? or AM I just a green newb that has no clue what he is doing? Well Mafia you will have to see if you feel lucky tonight and make me flip. So did i really vist Kit and Yurkin or am I bluffing? I am calling you out mafia. Now lets see who bites. |
| Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!! |
LucianRoy said: Dude_Mike said: I will say this I visted 2 people last night Kit and yurkin. Hi, who's scum? Good question I do not know. |
| Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!! |
| Inb4 mike's trolling and secretly will clutch the endgame |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
LucianRoy said: Inb4 mike's trolling and secretly will clutch the endgame No not at all. just fishing for mafia? so what are you worried about? Are you Mafia? |
| Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!! |
| That's a pretty loaded question, no? |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
| You see I like to breadcrumb. but I tend to leave out missing things that are needed to make sence. Now once mafia kills me It will all come together. By that time it will be to late and mafia will screw them selfs with a kill on me. But a Kill on me at night will make it all clear. So Mafia I DARE YOU TO KILL ME. |
| Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!! |
LucianRoy said: That's a pretty loaded question, no? Loaded question asking if you are mafia? interesting. I have my eye on you. |
| Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!! |
| Usually mafia would only consider killing you if you've earned your stripes as town, and have good reads. But you're in luck b/c you can get both by helping me lynch Tainted. Speaking of reads, would you say you've made any since yesterday? |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Togs said: Votecount 2.1 01001110 01101111 00100000 01101111 01101110 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011 Tainted (3) - Phraze, LucianRoy, Kit Kit (1) - Wary_Wolf Not Voting: DenjaX, Starpendle, Kiiruma, Tainted, ForgotToFlush, yurkin, Dude_mike, LanMisa, Karote, Kiana_Kaslana Deadline will be 5pm on Tuesday, April 9th, with a Twilight phase of 0-12 hours because all most of the hosts are human beings. One does |
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| For now I'm putting my trust into Kit and Kiiruma |
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yurkin said: For now I'm putting my trust into Kit and Kiiruma Kit I can see, but Kiiruma of all people? |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Dude_Mike said: :thonk: So, now thoses that are mafia will have to ask themselfs Why would I vist thoses 2. Also What roles is he that he can vist 2 people? OR is he bluffing baiting maifa to attck him to save the real PR roles? HMMMM Now lets watch and see the mafia scum paint me for todays lynch becuse they dont want to waist there time on a night kill on me. Town keep in mind If I was Mafia why bring heat on myself when I can just stay in the shadows and not risk a lynch. I hope town you see I am town with this play. And my wifom is real but it is on the mafia team. only question is what am I am i a VT? Am I baiting an attack? or AM I just a green newb that has no clue what he is doing? Well Mafia you will have to see if you feel lucky tonight and make me flip. So did i really vist Kit and Yurkin or am I bluffing? I am calling you out mafia. Now lets see who bites. You do know, as said before, there's not usually vanilla town in a role madness game, right? Also do you have alternative strategies other then baiting? |
Phraze said: what about kii/mike?quick glance at d1 vc: Denja/Star/Tainted with Kii/Mike to lesser extent. |
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LucianRoy said: yurkin said: For now I'm putting my trust into Kit and Kiiruma Kit I can see, but Kiiruma of all people? His overview #452 is very much head in the clouds type of thought process, very much like him. I'm willing to bet on him |
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Karote said: yurkin said: @Kiiruma thoughts? It's Sunday guess you may have more time to read the game @Karote still playing? XD Hello, what's up If saw you were online would have stayed more Kiana_Kaslana said: full role flips don’t happen? Well shit. How do we know how OP the neutral was then? I want to see broken roles. We also don’t know what we lost in RE’s death. That sucks. Scum can fakeclaim anything they want now. And so does town Thank half reveal is not claiming parade |
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| Hello guis |
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Phraze said: you gonna believe someone when you dont know his wincon?given he turned out neutral, I can believe this. tho Lan is iffy. Tainted being close countertrain to a neutral seems unnecessary, unless scum. FTF I have no idea |
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LanMisa said: this is probably the most easiest way to justify an nk and push suspicions to people but hey it might be right.I think that RE dying points to her being right on at least some of her pushes, if not a lot of them. As far as I remember she was pushing Shattiel, Starpendle and Roy as scum. Since I don't think that both Roy and Shattiel are scum together, looking at the wagons, my guess would be at least one, possibly two of them. That being said, from those three players I find Starpendle gave off the oddest vibes. On the other hand, resolving Shattiel will tell us the most about yesterday's wagons. So I am fine lynching either, unless somebody can clear one of them. Shattiel, you claimed roleblocker. On whom did you use your ability last night? I'm thinking whether scum would push this way. Probably not |
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Kiana_Kaslana said: Kiana stop wolfing and play the gamevote:tainted He’s still pretty scummy and it looks like many people agree The reads of the neutral (lan > ? > ?) seem pretty legitimate too, maybe he might have PR/insider neutral hack info that influenced his read unlike us no-info towns. @yurkin quick post something to end my spam |
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Kiana_Kaslana said: Kiana stop wolfing and play the gamevote:tainted He’s still pretty scummy and it looks like many people agree The reads of the neutral (lan > ? > ?) seem pretty legitimate too, maybe he might have PR/insider neutral hack info that influenced his read unlike us no-info towns. @yurkin quick post something to end my spam |
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Dude_Mike said: You see I like to breadcrumb. but I tend to leave out missing things that are needed to make sence. Now once mafia kills me It will all come together. By that time it will be to late and mafia will screw them selfs with a kill on me. But a Kill on me at night will make it all clear. So Mafia I DARE YOU TO KILL ME. Mhmm well bait eserve explanation to serve as bait properly, no? Why pick me and kit? |
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LucianRoy said: Okay this post is reachy and I thought for a sec of just saying "no u" to dismantle the whole case but no That EoD was so bogus wtf. Vote: Tainted Their slew of posts at EoD we're pretty gosh darn scummy too. Look at this: #818- Tainted sets ups a baseless, false dichotomy here between me and FTF in an attempt to shade me, and let me explain why. There is so much to unpack here. Why phrase it this way? Why not just directly say: 'because of his interactions with FTF, I find Lucian scummy'. instead of working around it backwards: "Roy probably isn't w/w with FTF // I doubt ftf is even wolf at all" The first part is an unsupported claim, (no explaination), which sets up a false dichotomy with me against FTF once they establish FTF is town is the second clause, (again, no explanation). For this to be good, wouldn't you have to explain why it isn't TvT? There's no consideration of that in this post at all. Because of this, I consider this subtle shading of me. The way it's phrased makes it beat around the bush, and doesn't sound like anything town would post imo. #819- This post is weird too. It doesn't say "I'm reading these people scum" it lines up the conclusion to their previous post on me, like it's a disclaimer for something already established, yet it isn't established, and wasn't established in their last post. It was hinted at. Another reason why I think that post was an attempt to shade me. I'm honestly doubtful if they can explain why they changed their mind here, but I guess it's worth a shot to ask? #820 Oh, come on, there is no way you can defend Mike here. Do you seriously have a TR on his slot? His post is obviously anti-town, and can be lumped in with the other strange and unnecessary things he's done this game. I felt like calling him out for it this time. So, in essence, all this seems like an attempt to line-up my lynch for toDay as an out, and this is ALSO inherently scummy to me. This part isn't as solid as the other things I've said, and it's slightly anecdotal, but I feel like the self-preservation vote Tainted made on Marl, is NOT NAI as self-pres often is. See, were I in Tainted shoes, and they go to the trouble of shading me as scum at EoD while voting Marl why not just push me at EoD? Why not take it a single step further and just CFD on me? That's what I would've done as town, and I would not have settled on a self-pres train I wasn't fully committed to. On top of that, Tainted's vote on Marl is a naked vote, and they do nothing to establish why he's scum/give thoughts from that point onward. It makes even more sense once you realize Marl literally only had 1 vote on him at that stage of the game. One last point I dug up that is unrelated to the former, but still notable imo: #675- Why would they beg Kiana for a read here? Reeks of desperation to me, like, 'please read me town and defend me!' rather than actually caring about what Kiana's read on themselves actually is. It's a weaker tell, but I found it off-putting. Also, phraze is right when he says their claim is sus, but for me it's mostly b/c they didn't paraphrase. This is an easy scum lynch in my book, and though I didn't go about the push with meta like RE did, I don't need it to come to a similar conclusion as her... twice. ___ Marl was probably executioner? And Lan is the lynched? That's actually nutty how RE guessed that. However, I don't think that has any bearing on Lan's alignment since in my exp. the target is randomized. I also forget if the win condition can be met whether or not exec is dead. Also, @Lanmisa, have we ever played together before? So first one you either don't know what w/w means or you're too defensive that it somehow went to me shading you 2nd one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ probably the reachiest post Shattiel - "Hey dont trust me on my read on Roy/star" Roy - "He's shading me" I made that post as legacy so no one would sheep that read of mine after I flip so you do you 3rd one I'm not defending mike here I'm calling your post wolf Cos you made a big case out of a simple question like you did with mine and overreacted For #675 I played with Kiana and I assume Kiana knows how I play and I also know how she plays and this isn't it I know she's v/la but I wanted her to at least make a decent read or explanation Anyway you could call that post as me not w/w with Kiana if you know what it means Idk about the "paraphrase" part? |
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| Also I blocked roy I'll spare you guys the details but my roleblock isn't a full block |
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Votecount 2.2 01001110 01101111 00100000 01101111 01101110 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00101100 00100000 01100101 01111000 01100011 01100101 01110000 01110100 00100000 01111001 01110101 01110010 01101011 01101001 01101110 Tainted (3) - Phraze, LucianRoy, Kit Kit (1) - Wary_Wolf LanMisa (1) - Kiana_Kaslana Not Voting: DenjaX, Starpendle, Kiiruma, Tainted, ForgotToFlush, yurkin, Dude_mike, LanMisa, Karote Deadline will be 5pm on Tuesday, April 9th, with a Twilight phase of 0-12 hours because all most of the hosts are human beings. |
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LucianRoy said: Alrighty, so the reason I brought up WIFOM earlier has to do directly with this conclusion you came to based on your original statement. Wine is a logical fallacy that's usually most prevalent when trying to predict what scum will and won't do, in this case, the reasons scum NK'd RE. Your theory on why scum killed RE could be entirely correct, and nobody can disprove that. Notice the word /could/, because simultainiously, it can't be proven. It's only a theory that is dependent on what is currently, an unnobtainable outcome: Tainted's flip. Let me offer this as a rebuttle: the mafia killed RE because Tainted is actually mafia and didn't want RE forcefully leading a wagon on them all throughout D2, probably resulting in their lynch. Killing RE would buy Tainted time to counter this. Everything I just said is another theory, and yet its conclusion is obviously the direct opposite of the one you had from interpreting the NK. Who's right? Who's wrong? The answer, it might suprise you, is neither of us. Because, supposing we're both town, neither of us can deduce Tainted's alignment from predicting the intent and thought process behind mafia killing RE. Neither can it be substantiated with anything proven, and they'll both remain hollow theories. Making a conclusion off of those theories is dangerous because there's no actual way to prove your theory correct in this current moment, it's just assumption that would only be revealed correct/incorrect post-flip. Instead, it's better to substantiate your read off of other things, specifially things players have said in thread, via the scum tell method, causal analysis, meta, basically any tool at your disposal. In summation, the conclusion, despite it having the chance to be correct, isn't actually supported by the assumption that scum did X with X intents and purposes. It's a non-sequitur. Think of it like rock paper scissors, your opponent chose rock last turn, and you chose scissors. Will they choose rock again? What if they think you'll think that their next choice will be rock? And so on and so on. Or a better example: a cop is chasing a criminal at night on foot. The cop comes to an intersection in the road. One street is very well lit, and direct, the other is dark and winding. He can't see which way the perp went, which route did he take? Which street did the perp think the cop would choose? A little unrelated to my main point, but whether it's trying to pull reverse psychology on town or not, scum's criteria for deciding a NK might not even be related to the person in question, (Tainted). There are a ton of factors that could go into deciding a NK, or absolutely none at all. One could be simply because scum thought RE was the strongest town, and they'll work their way down the list after that. Some players are very by-the-book, weigh their options, and kill the largest threat to their scum-team. Some players, like Jackrito, enjoy a good challenge and will sometimes specifially target inactives/lurkers. How kind! Some players are literally evil and will rng their NKs, though this is pretty uncommon. Also, in the meta meta-game there are exceptions to NKA being wine, but those are very few and far between, really hard to see, and very conditional. So conditional that they're a pretty insignificant factor to consider when trying to read a player, at least imo. And you always have a chance of having an off game with shite reads and being completely wrong. ___ Phraze said: Wolf and FTF stands out on Marlu train too. tho scum voting together is rare? It depends on the team. I've had teams that've orchestrated some pretty gutsy tandem voting before, so it's never out of the question, at least fmpov. Claims like these only really work if you think one of their interactions can be established as w/w. But prior to that, it's a bit of a pre-associative to make based solely off of vote history. You are now my favorite player on this site |
Tainted said: Kiana_Kaslana said: Kiana stop wolfing and play the gamevote:tainted He’s still pretty scummy and it looks like many people agree The reads of the neutral (lan > ? > ?) seem pretty legitimate too, maybe he might have PR/insider neutral hack info that influenced his read unlike us no-info towns. @yurkin quick post something to end my spam My votes currently on lanmisa and not on you anymore. I want you to apologize if not I will change it back :) |
Kiana_Kaslana said: no uMy votes currently on lanmisa and not on you anymore. I want you to apologize if not I will change it back :) |
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| vote: tainted Clearly scum |
Dude_Mike said: Oh hey I remembered you cos of ur signatureLucianRoy said: Inb4 mike's trolling and secretly will clutch the endgame No not at all. just fishing for mafia? so what are you worried about? Are you Mafia? You talked about not surviving a game with 50 posts limit Tho you're v/la in that game so you barely posted but how about now? |
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| @Phraze poke |
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Dude_Mike said: its pointless to make use of secrecy of your abilities when there is no role flip when a player dies in this game. It is up to you what kind of information are you willing to share to help contribute to town. xDDSo, now thoses that are mafia will have to ask themselfs Why would I vist thoses 2. Also What roles is he that he can vist 2 people? OR is he bluffing baiting maifa to attck him to save the real PR roles? HMMMM Now lets watch and see the mafia scum paint me for todays lynch becuse they dont want to waist there time on a night kill on me. Town keep in mind If I was Mafia why bring heat on myself when I can just stay in the shadows and not risk a lynch. I hope town you see I am town with this play. And my wifom is real but it is on the mafia team. only question is what am I am i a VT? Am I baiting an attack? or AM I just a green newb that has no clue what he is doing? Well Mafia you will have to see if you feel lucky tonight and make me flip. So did i really vist Kit and Yurkin or am I bluffing? I am calling you out mafia. Now lets see who bites. |
DenjaX said: you mean why people think I'm scum?@Tainted why are you targeted as the scum? Care to enlighten me your perspective of this? |
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DenjaX said: I am a gravedigger and I took Marluxion's ability last night. What is a gravedigger? |
| idk cause I'm sticking out? Pushed RE earlier? Or people just sheeped RE? Man I thought I was talking to Kit How bout you? |
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LucianRoy said: hiw do you voteUsually mafia would only consider killing you if you've earned your stripes as town, and have good reads. But you're in luck b/c you can get both by helping me lynch Tainted. Speaking of reads, would you say you've made any since yesterday? |
| Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!! |
yurkin said: Dude_Mike said: You see I like to breadcrumb. but I tend to leave out missing things that are needed to make sence. Now once mafia kills me It will all come together. By that time it will be to late and mafia will screw them selfs with a kill on me. But a Kill on me at night will make it all clear. So Mafia I DARE YOU TO KILL ME. Mhmm well bait eserve explanation to serve as bait properly, no? Why pick me and kit? Becuse I town read you to the most |
| Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!! |
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