Honestly I just hope NA translators won't ruin gems like this  |
-MahesvaraJul 3, 2017 5:43 PM
My Queens  |
| If it even gets that far. |
 Bitches and hoes, he carried them all. |
 |
| Temple bro won't be happy hearing that |
My Queens |
| Speaking of hoes. The Martha x Regend ship sank pretty quick. Remember when that was a thing? |
 Well, that's just lame. They really want me to save my quartz. |
|
| That's such a bad gacha I thought it was NA for a second. |
What's Fate version of the reason Enkidu died? I'd like translators to change the name "Babylonia" since it's not suitable |
 |
Nyarlathothep said: What's Fate version of the reason Enkidu died? I'd like translators to change the name "Babylonia" since it's not suitable Ishtar requested the gods to kill off Enkidu after it and Gil defeated Gugalanna. Fucking Ishtar. |
| > no Drake Alter > a D'eon rate-up > startup Servants rate-up > lasts 2 whole weeks  Well, okay then. Saving quartz it is. -Mahesvara said: Honestly I just hope NA translators won't ruin gems like this Tohsaka Rin. Screwing over even the gods just by being herself. Genkii said: Speaking of hoes. The Martha x Regend ship sank pretty quick. Remember when that was a thing? Random GO fan ships are like fast food, immediately delicious and forgettable. Remember Vlad x Nero? Speaking of Martha, can't freaking wait to get the chance to roll her Ruler form. I want her more than Artoria Archer, swimsuit Raikou and swimsuit Nero combined. Last year was incredibly depressing with all the quartz and tickets i wasted and getting absolutely nothing. |
SabrinaK said: Nyarlathothep said: What's Fate version of the reason Enkidu died? I'd like translators to change the name "Babylonia" since it's not suitable Ishtar requested the gods to kill off Enkidu after it and Gil defeated Gugalanna. Fucking Ishtar. Yes, because it was an humiliation for her. But in the game, Gugalanna is apparently still alive and they wanted the creature against Tiamat, so it seems likely the reason Enkidu died was changed :/ Oh yes .. Ishtar .. Ruining her former lovers (Killing husband and all), then makes a fuss because Gilgamesh rejects her for that, sending Gugalanna and causing Enkidu's death .. Lol |
|
Nyarlathothep said: What's Fate version of the reason Enkidu died? I'd like translators to change the name "Babylonia" since it's not suitable Why is it not suitable? |
The sun is a deadly laser |
Nyarlathothep said: SabrinaK said: Ishtar requested the gods to kill off Enkidu after it and Gil defeated Gugalanna. Fucking Ishtar. Yes, because it was an humiliation for her. But in the game, Gugalanna is apparently still alive and they wanted the creature against Tiamat, so it seems likely the reason Enkidu died was changed :/ Oh yes .. Ishtar .. Ruining her former lovers (Killing husband and all), then makes a fuss because Gilgamesh rejects her for that, sending Gugalanna and causing Enkidu's death .. Lol Right, that was the reason for enki's death given in Extra CCC. As for this game, the F/GO Wiki says: "After the fight on the city of Uruk, the friends Gilgamesh and Enkidu underwent many adventures, but it ultimately lost its life after the battle with the divine beast Gugalanna", though I'm not sure if that's just a restatement of the previous lore or what. If anyone knows details, feel free to share bc I'm curious now too lol |
| Wasn't going to roll anyway, but damn DW sure made it easy. @astroprogs And that's one of the reasons why we love her so much. |
My Queens |
mira-pyon said: Nyarlathothep said: What's Fate version of the reason Enkidu died? I'd like translators to change the name "Babylonia" since it's not suitable Why is it not suitable? Because Babylonia's peak came about 1000 years after the time said to be Gilgamesh's reign. He may have been king at about 2500 before Christ, in a period called 'Period of Uruk'. As for Babylonia, it's said that its first big king was Hammurabi, known for making the first text of law in western history. The 'paleo-babylonian' period began about 500 years after Gilgamesh's reign and Hammurabi's reign was at about 1500 years before Christ, at Babylonia's peak. They should have just called it 'Uruk' or even calling it 'Mesopotamia' wouldn't have been shocking. I'm not sure the city was even called 'Babylonia' at Gilgamesh's time, if ever it already existed. SabrinaK said: Nyarlathothep said: Yes, because it was an humiliation for her. But in the game, Gugalanna is apparently still alive and they wanted the creature against Tiamat, so it seems likely the reason Enkidu died was changed :/ Oh yes .. Ishtar .. Ruining her former lovers (Killing husband and all), then makes a fuss because Gilgamesh rejects her for that, sending Gugalanna and causing Enkidu's death .. Lol Right, that was the reason for enki's death given in Extra CCC. As for this game, the F/GO Wiki says: "After the fight on the city of Uruk, the friends Gilgamesh and Enkidu underwent many adventures, but it ultimately lost its life after the battle with the divine beast Gugalanna", though I'm not sure if that's just a restatement of the previous lore or what. If anyone knows details, feel free to share bc I'm curious now too lol In the legend, gods killed Enkidu as a 'punishment' for 'Humiliating' Ishtar and show Gilgamesh, kinda. If in the games it's the same, then I don't see why it would be implied Gugalanna would still be alive |
|
Nyarlathothep said: Because Babylonia's peak came about 1000 years after the time said to be Gilgamesh's reign. He may have been king at about 2500 before Christ, in a period called 'Period of Uruk'. As for Babylonia, it's said that its first big king was Hammurabi, known for making the first text of law in western history. The 'paleo-babylonian' period began about 500 years after Gilgamesh's reign and Hammurabi's reign was at about 1500 years before Christ, at Babylonia's peak. They should have just called it 'Uruk' or even calling it 'Mesopotamia' wouldn't have been shocking. I'm not sure the city was even called 'Babylonia' at Gilgamesh's time, if ever it already existed. Well that's where you're wrong, my friend. The only reason it's called 'Babylonia' is Babylon, an already existing city, is dismantled to build a wall to protect Uruk and everywhere behind it. Obviously the singularity is centred around the wall, so it's also called Babylonia. And Gil has clairvoyance, so I don't see why he can't steal a name from the future. Next, the translation simply cannot be changed because it literally says バビロニア(Ba.bi.ro.ni.a/Babylonia) in Japanese, which isn't a translation error like Altria(which is utter bullshit btw). If it were ever meant to be Babylon, it would be written バビロン(Ba.bi.ro.n). Lastly, were you expecting historical or mythological accuracy from the franchise which has 5th Century knights wearing 15th Century armour? |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-pyon said: Nyarlathothep said: Because Babylonia's peak came about 1000 years after the time said to be Gilgamesh's reign. He may have been king at about 2500 before Christ, in a period called 'Period of Uruk'. As for Babylonia, it's said that its first big king was Hammurabi, known for making the first text of law in western history. The 'paleo-babylonian' period began about 500 years after Gilgamesh's reign and Hammurabi's reign was at about 1500 years before Christ, at Babylonia's peak. They should have just called it 'Uruk' or even calling it 'Mesopotamia' wouldn't have been shocking. I'm not sure the city was even called 'Babylonia' at Gilgamesh's time, if ever it already existed. Well that's where you're wrong, my friend. The only reason it's called 'Babylonia' is Babylon, an already existing city, is dismantled to build a wall to protect Uruk and everywhere behind it. Obviously the singularity is centred around the wall, so it's also called Babylonia. And Gil has clairvoyance, so I don't see why he can't steal a name from the future. Next, the translation simply cannot be changed because it literally says バビロニア(Ba.bi.ro.ni.a/Babylonia) in Japanese, which isn't a translation error like Altria(which is utter bullshit btw). If it were ever meant to be Babylon, it would be written バビロン(Ba.bi.ro.n). Lastly, were you expecting historical or mythological accuracy from the franchise which has 5th Century knights wearing 15th Century armour? Oh my bad ! Haha |
|
| Enkidu was killed by Gugalanna. It's why he's so pissed at her in his My Room lines. I don't remember it ever being said directly, but i think it's implied that the Bull became a part of Ishtar's legend, so she can summon him, kinda like how Medusa can summon Pegasus and Medea can, theoretically, summon a dragon. The Gugalanna Ishtar/Rin has is not the same Gugalanna that killed Enkidu. Time and time again it was refereed to as "Ishtar's trump card", like he's an extension of her. Not to mention, Ishtar flat out said that she felt the connection between the human world and the gods' to have been completely gone. She can't summon Gugalanna from that world, even if it was still alive there. |
Nyarlathothep said: mira-pyon said: Well that's where you're wrong, my friend. The only reason it's called 'Babylonia' is Babylon, an already existing city, is dismantled to build a wall to protect Uruk and everywhere behind it. Obviously the singularity is centred around the wall, so it's also called Babylonia. And Gil has clairvoyance, so I don't see why he can't steal a name from the future. Next, the translation simply cannot be changed because it literally says バビロニア(Ba.bi.ro.ni.a/Babylonia) in Japanese, which isn't a translation error like Altria(which is utter bullshit btw). If it were ever meant to be Babylon, it would be written バビロン(Ba.bi.ro.n). Lastly, were you expecting historical or mythological accuracy from the franchise which has 5th Century knights wearing 15th Century armour? Oh my bad ! Haha It's chill, I can definitely see where you're coming from, lol. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
astroprogs said: Enkidu was killed by Gugalanna. It's why he's so pissed at her in his My Room lines. I don't remember it ever being said directly, but i think it's implied that the Bull became a part of Ishtar's legend, so she can summon him, kinda like how Medusa can summon Pegasus and Medea can, theoretically, summon a dragon. The Gugalanna Ishtar/Rin has is not the same Gugalanna that killed Enkidu. Time and time again it was refereed to as "Ishtar's trump card", like he's an extension of her. Not to mention, Ishtar flat out said that she felt the connection between the human world and the gods' to have been completely gone. She can't summon Gugalanna from that world, even if it was still alive there. But in the game, Caster Gilgamesh doesn't seem to really really hate Ishtar .. ? Or maybe it's directed at all gods, not just her but still his behaviour toward her in Babylonia doesn't show enough o: To be honest, for the drawing contest, I was thinking of drawing Gilgamesh in the most historically accurate outfit as I could, so I made researches regarding Mesopotamia. But I lost motivation to draw and preferred go on reading about their History, culture Lol |
|
| No Drake Alter? Aw, I wanted to see what kind of her skills and NP (Same, but dark/purple lasers instead of yellow lasers, like she fired that purple laser with her cannon out of the air at people), and her own Alter personality instead of her "Dahut" personality too. Oh well. |
 |
SabrinaK said: They never said it directly but I think certain servants being able to summon something that's "related" to them makes sense in the context of things. Isnt that also why Semiramis can summon Basmu (and also harpies)? I assume those would also be considered more of manifestations than the real creatures from that actual world I haven't read Apocrypha, so I'm not familiar with that part of the story. But, yeah, that sounds similar. Nyarlathothep said: But in the game, Caster Gilgamesh doesn't seem to really really hate Ishtar .. ? Or maybe it's directed at all gods, not just her but still his behaviour toward her in Babylonia doesn't show enough o: Oh, he's pretty pissed too. The reason he doesn't go all "must avenge friend" when she's around is because: 1) He senses that there's something fundamentally different about her. He tells Gudao that the Ishtar he knows would've killed him on the spot if he dared asking her for help, let alone actually tagging along. The "Rin part" is the thing that's holding him back. 2) Kinda hard to think about old grudges when not only Uruk will be annihialated, but the entire world. If he can have her as an ally, at least temporarily, he'll take it. Even Enkidu's comment is kinda soft. He asks Gudao if he there's anything he can throw at her. It's a reaction incredibly similar to Gil's. They're absolutely pissed at Ishtar, but they sense that this is a different Ishtar than the one that tormented both of them. Also, and this is one of my favorite scenes of her, she subtly tells Gudao that he's her actual first friend because of the way of life she used to have and then tells Gil (and she uses the word Kinpika too) that she'll use all of her power to help Gudao succeed. Kinda hard to look at her the same way he used to, isn't it? |
| Drake Alter will probably be released later on as an Avenger like Jeanne Alter. |
ShinsoPriest said: Drake Alter will probably be released later on as an Avenger like Jeanne Alter. J. Alter was ridiculously popular before her release, though. I'm not sure if Drake Alter garnered that level of fanfare. |
| @astroprogs It's true that strategically speaking, making peace with her is best, though it's not totally 'peace' either. It's good that Rin was in there as well ;) |
|
| I found that comment about the new Summer Event Servants rumor from https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/6l79e4/this_years_summer_events/ : "Officially? Not that I'm aware. However, allegedly same source as the person that revealed CCC event info before its release has said that Nero and Raikou will be gacha swimsuits while we get freebie Ishtar. Edit: From rxrx over on BL. https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5203017251 " That's cool about Nero and Ishtar, but it's still a rumor, so we will wait and see if that rumor is true or not when the new Summer event comes out. |
|
| >Freebie Ishtar >Not Ereshkigal I can see Astro weeping already. Inb4 Drake Alter before Ereshkigal too. |
mira-pyonJul 4, 2017 2:17 PM
The sun is a deadly laser |
Nyarlathothep said: He does. To the extent he compared Rin to Ishtar in their my room lines. Harshly.astroprogs said: Enkidu was killed by Gugalanna. It's why he's so pissed at her in his My Room lines. I don't remember it ever being said directly, but i think it's implied that the Bull became a part of Ishtar's legend, so she can summon him, kinda like how Medusa can summon Pegasus and Medea can, theoretically, summon a dragon. The Gugalanna Ishtar/Rin has is not the same Gugalanna that killed Enkidu. Time and time again it was refereed to as "Ishtar's trump card", like he's an extension of her. Not to mention, Ishtar flat out said that she felt the connection between the human world and the gods' to have been completely gone. She can't summon Gugalanna from that world, even if it was still alive there. But in the game, Caster Gilgamesh doesn't seem to really really hate Ishtar .. ? Or maybe it's directed at all gods, not just her but still his behaviour toward her in Babylonia doesn't show enough o: l 'Heh... this time's Ishtar seems to have improved on her stupidity just a little. No longer wholly dependent on her father, she now stands on her own feet as a lone god. Huh, perhaps it is the temperament of a girl who has lost her father at a young age that has rehabilitated the useless goddess. Fate, it truly is a well-made fabric.' (When you have: Ishtar) |
 |
ShadowfrostZen said: Nyarlathothep said: He does. To the extent he compared Rin to Ishtar in their my room lines. Harshly.But in the game, Caster Gilgamesh doesn't seem to really really hate Ishtar .. ? Or maybe it's directed at all gods, not just her but still his behaviour toward her in Babylonia doesn't show enough o: l 'Heh... this time's Ishtar seems to have improved on her stupidity just a little. No longer wholly dependent on her father, she now stands on her own feet as a lone god. Huh, perhaps it is the temperament of a girl who has lost her father at a young age that has rehabilitated the useless goddess. Fate, it truly is a well-made fabric.' (When you have: Ishtar) I've seen worse |
|
| So uh, just what are Ishtar's charming points? I wish to understand her appeal. Is it just because she has Rin's face? My principles are if some ho destroys your friendships or makes your life miserable, she is DEAD to me regardless of reasoning. (yes I hold grudges) And whoamygod YES swimsuit Nero! :D!! |
mira-pyon said: >Freebie Ishtar >Not Ereshkigal I can see Astro weeping already. Inb4 Drake Alter before Ereshkigal too. Eh, a freebie Ishtar is a freebie Ishtar. I'm not gonna complain. ...much. ...probably. Genkii said: So uh, just what are Ishtar's charming points? I wish to understand her appeal. Is it just because she has Rin's face? My principles are if some ho destroys your friendships or makes your life miserable, she is DEAD to me regardless of reasoning. (yes I hold grudges) And whoamygod YES swimsuit Nero! :D!! Depends on who you're talking about. If OG Ishtar, then yeah, she's a horrible piece of shit. If Rishtar, then she's pretty much a spoiled Rin. A VERY spoiled Rin. You can't be a fan of Rin and not be a fan of Rishtar. OG Ishtar is the kind of personality who would do this shit to Enkidu. Rishtar is not. > regardless of reasoning Even if the reasoning being that she's essentially a different character? |
Does that mean rolling OG Ishtar will be possible in the future? I might spend some quartz for her this time if that's the case. |
>OG Ishtar >Rishtar I forgot this was a Type-Moon work where anything can have more than 2 layers to it. Or multiverse what-ifs. Or is always redeemable in some way. So her charming point IS that she's a spoiled Rin with a Rin face and voiced by Kana Ueda? I like Rin, I really do but Rishtar is another thing all together for me lol. To each his own. ShinsoPriest said: Does that mean rolling OG Ishtar will be possible in the future? Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. Give me an original character with all her original BITCH attitude and style. |
GenkiiJul 4, 2017 5:05 PM
ShinsoPriest said: Does that mean rolling OG Ishtar will be possible in the future? I might spend some quartz for her this time if that's the case. Lore aside, there's no point. People won't really care for her when there's already an Ishtar with freaking Rin Tohsaka on top. Being an absolute piece of shit won't help her chances either. Genkii said: >OG Ishtar >Rishtar I forgot this was a Type-Moon work where anything can have more than 2 layers to it. Or multiverse what-ifs. So her charming point IS that she's a spoiled Rin with a Rin face and voiced by Kana Ueda? I like Rin, I really do but Rishtar is another thing all together for me lol. To each his own. ShinsoPriest said: Does that mean rolling OG Ishtar will be possible in the future? Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. Give me an original character with all her BITCH attitude and style. She's part Rin, so it's not that she's "Rin-like". She's literally 30% Rin. If you don't like Rishtar for what she "supposedly did" to Enkidu, how will you like her OG self. OG Ishtar isn't the J. Alter type of evil, but have that Jeanne component inside (that's kinda what Rishtar is), she's the real deal piece of shit. Also, unlike Misaya Reiroukan, she's not horrible in a charming and badass way, she's just a horrible spoiled brat. SabrinaK said: Yes, even then. Please refer to the irrefutable, unbiased, and logical progression I posted above. =) .............................................................................................................................................................  Damn, you're good. |
astroprogsJul 4, 2017 5:26 PM
astroprogs said: If you don't like Rishtar for what she "supposedly did" to Enkidu, how will you like her OG self. OG Ishtar isn't the J. Alter type of evil, but have that Jeanne component inside (that's kinda what Rishtar is), she's the real deal piece of shit. I don't like Rishtar precisely because she needed to be part Rin to be popular. I'll definitely appreciate OG Ishtar more because at least she's an honest representation. -feels a bit of a glare coming from SabrinaK- |
Genkii said: I'll definitely appreciate OG Ishtar more because at least she's an honest representation. I think you'd just appreciate the concept, but you really wouldn't like the character. Rin is what's making her a fan favorite. OG, with what we've known of her before GO even, doesn't seem like a good character on her own. Aside from Rin's popularity, she needed Rin to be actually interesting. At least IMO. I know i wouldn't have cared for her if she was OG. |
astroprogs said: ShinsoPriest said: Does that mean rolling OG Ishtar will be possible in the future? I might spend some quartz for her this time if that's the case. Lore aside, there's no point. People won't really care for her when there's already an Ishtar with freaking Rin Tohsaka on top. Being an absolute piece of shit won't help her chances either. Except some people don't care for Rin and would be interested precisely because she isn't a Rin clone. Also DW wouldn't care about that reasoning because money will be made no matter what 5* they decide to release. |
Genkii said: astroprogs said: If you don't like Rishtar for what she "supposedly did" to Enkidu, how will you like her OG self. OG Ishtar isn't the J. Alter type of evil, but have that Jeanne component inside (that's kinda what Rishtar is), she's the real deal piece of shit. I don't like Rishtar precisely because she needed to be part Rin to be popular. I'll definitely appreciate OG Ishtar more because at least she's an honest representation. -feels a bit of a glare coming from SabrinaK- Hey, you can like whatever you want but… Just some food for thought, that's all |
removed-userJul 4, 2017 6:48 PM
| I don't really care for Ishtar all that much, Rin fused be damned. I just find her a pretty good nuke in FGO and I like using her and Enkidu on the same teams ayy lmao- But I feel like that Ishtar is a lot more likable because she has 30% of Rin hijacking her personality. |
|
ShinsoPriest said: astroprogs said: Lore aside, there's no point. People won't really care for her when there's already an Ishtar with freaking Rin Tohsaka on top. Being an absolute piece of shit won't help her chances either. Except some people don't care for Rin and would be interested precisely because she isn't a Rin clone. Also DW wouldn't care about that reasoning because money will be made no matter what 5* they decide to release.  But... there are no such people. There are two kinds of people: those who like Rin and those who're Tsundere for Rin. Case in point: See? Classic Tsun. |
astroprogsJul 4, 2017 7:16 PM
Nyarlathothep said: I meanShadowfrostZen said: He does. To the extent he compared Rin to Ishtar in their my room lines. Harshly. 'Heh... this time's Ishtar seems to have improved on her stupidity just a little. No longer wholly dependent on her father, she now stands on her own feet as a lone god. Huh, perhaps it is the temperament of a girl who has lost her father at a young age that has rehabilitated the useless goddess. Fate, it truly is a well-made fabric.' (When you have: Ishtar) I've seen worse Yeah, Gilgamesh thinks pretty lowly of Ishtar, but i wasn't comparing it on a scale on anything just giving evidence- |
|
astroprogs said: I'm actually indifferent to Rin in her entirety, despite UBW being my favorite route(because Sakura exists)ShinsoPriest said: Except some people don't care for Rin and would be interested precisely because she isn't a Rin clone. Also DW wouldn't care about that reasoning because money will be made no matter what 5* they decide to release. But... there are no such people. There are two kinds of people: those who like Rin and those who're Tsundere for Rin. Case in point: See? So Tsun. Don't hate, don't like, just kinda.. there. Wished she was the main protag of FSN though, might've made the VN more enjoyable.(for me) |
|
ShadowfrostZen said: Don't hate, don't like, just kinda.. there. Translation: Hmph, it's not i like her or anything, b-baka. ShadowfrostZen said: Wished she was the main protag of FSN though, might've made the VN more enjoyable.(for me) Translation: B-but I don't mind if we see her in the most important position in the story. DON'T GET THE WRONG IDEA, THOUGH. lol Seriously though, as much as i love Rin, and i don't know if you've noticed, but she can sometimes be in the general vicinity of my favorites, I wouldn't want her as the protagonist. F/SN just wouldn't work with anyone other than Shirou as the MC. |
astroprogs said: ShinsoPriest said: Except some people don't care for Rin and would be interested precisely because she isn't a Rin clone. Also DW wouldn't care about that reasoning because money will be made no matter what 5* they decide to release. But... there are no such people. There are two kinds of people: those who like Rin and those who're Tsundere for Rin. Case in point: See? Classic Tsun. Sorry but Illya completely overshadows Rin in every regard. The biggest mistake Nasu made was making a Rin route and not Illya. He was probably bribed to do that. Loved the moment in the VN when Rin asked Shirou who he liked and you picked Illya.  |
| Saber's route is the best route tho. Kidding probably |
|
ShinsoPriest said: Loved the moment in the VN when Rin asked Shirou who he liked and you picked Illya. This. Every time. Imoutos are the best. @SabrinaK Don't worry, I fully intend to make OG Ishtar suffer if I ever roll her while making sweet mana love to Enkidu. It's not gay if it's clay. KaiserNazrin said: Saber's route is the best route tho. Kidding probably Are you the mysterious other person that voted for the Fate route in the other thread eons ago!? |
ShinsoPriest said: Fixed.The biggest mistake Nasu made was making a Sakura route and not Illya. |
My Queens |
More topics from this board
» [Non-Type-Moon] All-around Discussions v2 ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )ShinsoPriest - Aug 10, 2021 |
11190 |
by astroprogs
»»
10 hours ago |
|
Sticky: » [Fate/Grand Order] All-around Discussions v4 ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )mira-pyon - Aug 6, 2021 |
1557 |
by Genkii
»»
Sep 9, 6:35 PM |
|
» Seasonal Anime Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Kaiser-chan - Apr 18, 2018 |
7344 |
by ShinsoPriest
»»
Aug 19, 12:42 PM |
|
» [Fate/Gaming] All-around Discussions [IT'S HAPPENING!!!!!!! F/HA REMSATERED!!!!!!!] ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )astroprogs - Dec 10, 2015 |
644 |
by astroprogs
»»
Aug 6, 9:01 PM |
|
» Fan Art Thread. ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )mira-pyon - Oct 13, 2015 |
2593 |
by astroprogs
»»
Aug 5, 7:02 AM |