Basic Mafia v4: Haruhi Suzumiya Mafia | Game Over - Mafia and Third Party Win

PentaFlare said:
As for Lord_Sithis, I like their recent posts better than the early ones. I voted because Sithis wasn't willing to commit to a scumread, but their read on Mishu is pretty much that:



The reasons outlined here are not just that Mishu voted and provided no explanation, because that would be heavily recycled at this point, but there is also mention of logic having the most votes, and in Sithis's next post on the subject, they mention that they don't like the train on logic. This shows that they are thinking about the kind of votes that are leading to a possible lynch. Nobody should stagnate a vote on a bad train and that is what Sithis is pointing out.

This is particularly notable as a read because town are more likely to point out bad trains than mafia because mafia want mislynches, so trains comprised mostly of bad votes on a townie (which both I and Sithis believe is town) is good for mafia.

Unvote

Edit: should be "since both I and Sithis believe logic is town"

Mishukax said:

But logic, you couldn't have told yourself pre-game "Man, I will change my playstyle a bit by brushing off the sudden early-game accusations that Mishu will obviously have against me".
Also, solving the problem of inactivity with inactivity? Knowing you, you'd be pressing everyone with a lot of prodding. I guess you did change your playstyle, uh.

Gruffin said:
@Logic340 Thoughts on Phraze?

LucianRoy said:
Still waiting on those reasons. And that case on Phraze. And for the world to change.

Phraze said:
I'm pretty cryptic but I answer if anyone has questions, said it before in previous games and I'm a person of my word. not to say I'm less interesting as scum lol. my game has standards no matter what

Grapefruit21 said:
Said a lot of solid stuff but I did not like how strongly Mishu defended Sithis at all and I can't get past it.

Bursama said:
@Mishukax: ... you didn't answer my question. Tell me, what makes Lucian bold fellow in your eyes.

And: There's a difference between "This post feels funny" and "This post is so scummy, this player is scum". I get that sometimes people feel that there's something off and say it out loud, but you should try to look beyond the words. What is this player attempting to do with this post? Is it just innocent "This feels weird" or is there some hidden agenda? Is the player trying to make the other look more scummy?

Bursama said:
I don't see anything that feels really weird in comparison. (Though, they both feel somewhat superficial and lacking any deeper insight)

_0x40_ said:
It's not important, but breaking the streak of everyone random voting kinda seems like it's pushing some sort of scum agenda. Convince me why your vote (or lack thereof, to be more precise) is a better idea.

_0x40_ said:
I think it's something that someone who either can't or doesn't want to contribute much would say in order to make it look like they're still contributing. While scum does have a pretty big incentive to not contribute to the town agenda, but still needs to look like they're doing so, he could just as easily be town and just not have anything meaningful to contribute with right now. He seems to be new, so the latter just makes a lot of sense to me. Do you think what he said is alignment indicative?

Mishukax said:
Scum on this train? I believe there is

Sonata said:
@Kit I'm back! and before phase change too! :o Why did you think I wouldn't? And why did you also think that I don't like pressuring day one? I only said lynching day one, and gave my reasoning above, but pressure is more than fine, and in fact beneficial for the town interests :s.

I'll see you all tomorrow if I'm still alive I suppose.

I am always light about scumhunting in day 1

Grapefruit21 said:
I like Sithis as a choice as well, like Mishukax less for defending him. Also it's new years eve and as much as I love this game and hate missing the deadline it just hit 2017 here happy new year all and see you phase 2 I'm definitely not going to be awake in 7 hours.

logic340 said:
I just want to weigh in on the whole useless/meaningless thing real quick. I don't find any post about the game meaning less or useless. Even in my last game I failed to see the meaningful contributions of my teammates because I couldn't see the reason behind of it. So in the case of _0x40_ saying that what Grapefruit said was meaningless. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't but the outcome remains that we got a lot of interactions between people and discussion because of it. @Kit with all the people who discussed what happened even if _0x40_ wasn't the main contributor to the topic did it not provide us with information on multiple players? @Bursama you say you can't see the town mindset but I see it two fold here.
1. It looks scummy but is it? I have seem player draw attention to themselves in this manner. This allows the player to gauge people's reactions to their posts.
2. They just said what they though without care. I often do this and this is the crux of the argument Mishu made against Gruffin being safe vs. just saying what you think.

With what I have read I really don't feel that _0x40_ is the best lynch for the day.

For now unvote I am here all the way through phase change.

Gruffin said:
@Logic340 Thoughts on Phraze?

LucianRoy said:
I just read a post in which Penta slingshottted soooooo hard, that he came back around the moon and crash landed on Earth.

LucianRoy said:
All the reasons people are scum reading 40xx are shit.

LucianRoy said:
@kit what do you think of Penta's most recent post?

LucianRoy said:
All the reasons people are scum reading 40xx are shit.

Kit said:
Well I'm glad to see you're back.

Why did I think you wouldn't? Because you said:Only way you can die is if there is a phase change... or you die in real life.

Why did I think you don't like to pressure day one? because you said: But perhaps I stretched that one a little too far in meaning, sorry.

Both of those quotes are included in my post to you for a reason. Also you didn't really answer why you are role fishing. Will that help town somehow?

Happy new year ^^ Still 12 hours to go in my time zone

I never said it didn't spark conversation in others, but it's hard to imagine that he did it on purpose and for the benefit of town, because it's such an offhanded comment, and scum want to spark convo too- but in the wrong direction. I haven't seen 40 doing any real analysis in this game, just responding to people and making offhanded comments that don't provide insight into what he thinks about the game state.

I think it's also notable that he said he would provide reads and answer questions, but he only did the question answering part, then disappeared with still no reads or analysis of the game state.

PentaFlare said:
Regarding _0x40_:

I think this is the post that most people were hung up on initially because x40 mentions that breaking RVS might be pushing a scum agenda, however, looking at it again, I think the second half about logic convincing them that their vote is a better idea is the more important part. x40 doesn't want random voting to be broken for the sake of it, but does want discussion started about why certain targets make better votes than others.

#53, #61 and #71
These posts are addressing the "meaningless" comment grapefruit made about interactions being t/t. I can see this coming from both a town and a mafia mindset, but the more i think about it the less it makes sense from mafia!0x40. 0x40 is probably included in some of the players grapefruit was calling town by saying all the interactions seemed t/t. Why would mafia!0x40 want to discredit a statement calling them town?


Thinking critically about how grapefruit might approach the game and why their comment might come from a town perspective.

This whole chunk that I've just covered is what brought up the idea of mudslinging, however, I looking at it all from both perspectives, it just doesn't seem scummy to me. 0x40 has consistent thoughts about the post grapefruit made (which seems to be all that they have talked about so far). They believe that it could be scum trying to seem like they are contributing, but it is more likely that it is a newer town player who doesn't have a really meaningful analysis to add yet so that new town player is posting whatever they are thinking to try and get a feel for the game.

I don't think the mudslinging argument really holds when you consider that 0x40 explained why they see that statement as possibly coming from a town perspective. Mudslinging would more be saying something is scummy without really doing anything else at all relating to it. 0x40 has done their due diligence.

That being said, there are reasons to suspect 0x40. Mostly, they are still sitting on their RVS vote without showing any effort to sort those who have leading trains. They are stagnating their vote on someone who imo is an easy target. So much of their posts have been about something they see as non-alignment indicative (the t/t comment) that they haven't fleshed out any solid townreads or scumreads. This irks me as scummy behaviour. Every townie should be trying to sort out what alignment the people who are leading in votes are. The only ones who don't need to are those who already know.

All their most recent posts (all 2 of them) have been about defending themselves from the mudslinging accusations and mentioning how they didn't have reads in the first two pages of the game. They also mentioned they were going to post a read list which never happened. This is probably because they ran out of time, but they could have at least made a quick mention of a townread or scumread in a post somewhere.

In my opinion, I think 0x40 is lynchworthy. Their early posts do reveal a townlike mindset, however, they've done nothing to solve this game and don't seem particularly worried about that. Their stagnant vote on such an easy train is more suspicious than they seem townlike.

The other trains are on Gruffin and Mishu, both of whom have shown more effort to solve this game than 0x40. Mishu feels like an easy lynch which I don't like. As for Gruffin, I'm still trying to sort them, but they are contributing in a manner that will make this possible in the coming phases. If they are town, they will be a valuable townie.

Vote: _0x40_

LucianRoy said:
All the reasons people are scum reading 40xx are shit.

LucianRoy said:
I think 40xx is used to a different meta. I smell two week phases, majority lynches with hammers, no Eod rush, and more time to catch up in the thread. Maybe I'm delusional.

LucianRoy said:
I think 40xx is used to a different meta. I smell two week phases, majority lynches with hammers, no Eod rush, and more time to catch up in the thread. Maybe I'm delusional.

PentaFlare said:

Sure seems like it, but that kind of represents how I felt about them back reading their posts. Started pretty good then just went back on everything they had built. They actually said that they weren't being serious in some of their early comments and just brushed things off. Those were some of the things I was building a town read on. If the moment they are called into question x40 just calls them jokes, that doesn't seem town like anymore at all.

Do you think that their recent behaviour merits a town read?

PentaFlare said:
@logic340 I don't think they are bad town. I wouldn't lynch someone if I thought they were town. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

Yes, 0x40 displayed a townlike approach early on, however, later they both discredited part of this town behaviour by saying it wasn't serious and they have been acting very scummy by sticking with their RVS vote all phase and not providing a reason for it. Particularly on a player like Mishu who is an easy vote because it can be explained away with "lynch all liars Mishu lied lynch Mishu". Too easy.

Soren said:
That's just conjecture. On the contrary, what we have evident here is that 0x40 mudslung, only cared to respond to things related to that and the case kit made on him, claims that the game is still in rvs and has made no effort in working anyone's alignment out. It's very hard to view any of that as town behaviour.

LucianRoy said:
I think 40xx is used to a different meta. I smell two week phases, majority lynches with hammers, no Eod rush, and more time to catch up in the thread. Maybe I'm delusional.

logic340 said:
So you are saying that he looked town early, but now he is scum and the fact that he flaked on a read list proves he is scum? Again this behavior is similar to Karote and KOta in our previous game TGTM so you need to give me more than this for me to believe that this is actually scum behavior.

logic340 said:
I agree with this we have multiple new players from a different platform in this game yet we are trying to hold them to MAL standard right from the jump.

logic340 said:
How do you feel about rosie? reference the bottom of #472 for my quick thoughts.

logic340 said:
So you are saying that he looked town early, but now he is scum and the fact that he flaked on a read list proves he is scum? Again this behavior is similar to Karote and KOta in our previous game TGTM so you need to give me more than this for me to believe that this is actually scum behavior.

Gruffin said:
I could say the same for your read on Rosie. Explain to me how Rosie is the better lynch.

logic340 said:
I agree with this we have multiple new players from a different platform in this game yet we are trying to hold them to MAL standard right from the jump.

logic340 said:
I did in post #447. They contradicted themselves by placing a vote on 40 for doing what they themselves are doing. I held Penta to the same standard in The Great Terror when I lead the lynch on him.

Lord_Sithis said:
This seems like top tier levels of sheeping.

PentaFlare said:

No, flaking on the read list was not a core part of my scumread. The fact that he didn't take a stance on a single player in the game is. He could have just said "I suspect this person". That's one sentence. That presents a clear point of view. 0x40 stayed neutral about everyone.

Lord_Sithis said:
This seems like top tier levels of sheeping.

Soren said:
That's just conjecture. On the contrary, what we have evident here is that 0x40 mudslung, only cared to respond to things related to that and the case kit made on him, claims that the game is still in rvs and has made no effort in working anyone's alignment out. It's very hard to view any of that as town behaviour.