 Noble Disscussion: Serial Experiments Lain This thread will contain spoilers. If you did not watch this anime and don't want it spoiled for you, do not proceed further into this thread! Remember: Not everyone's opinions will be the same as yours. Please be respectful~ And you don't seem to understand~ |
| And you dont seem to understand~ |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
| That was fast |
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| I'll start by posting that lovely AMV |
| I'll put this on here for people to listen to: Fellener said: And you dont seem to understand~ A shame you seemed an honest man~ |
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| I was dissapointed with Lain. Just plain out dissapointed. Seeing how much it shows up in Texhnolyze searches,(like everytime I search for something Texhnolyze, like music, pictures... lain shows up) I thought it was going to be pretty good and that's why I voted for it in the poll. Bluntly put, Lain's, excuse the language, a clusterfuck. It throws so much stuff at you and tries to explain it all at once and the explanation on it's own is confusing and weak and then it throws even more shit at you. Also there's stuff that's not even adressed, stuff that's simply ignored. For example. At the end of ep6 Lain goes leaves the house to meet 2 Knights that are standing in front of her house. Her room explodes and in ep 7 it's as if that never happened, it's never mentioned or anything and suddenly in ep8 everyone hates Lain and her family falls victim to the Apathy Syndrome from Persona 3. The anime tries so hard to be confusing and it succeeds but everything else feels weak. The characters are dull, the artstyle is meh, the animation is ok… The ending's ok, I'm glad that it ended the way it did and I'm glad it's only 13 eps long because if it was longer I probably would have dropped it. At least the op is pretty good. I rate it 5/10, I liked the first 5 eps but the rest were just average. |
DemonarionAug 13, 2015 12:58 PM
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| And that's why I consider Serial Experiments Lain to be THE HARDEST OF READS! I figured it out in the end, but I will admit that there is a LOT of info to take in. |
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| I liked it a lot, mostly for the atmosphere though. It has interesting themes, but I think it addressed it in a needlessly convoluted way that took away from the enjoyment. I did like it better on a second watch and after some readings left and right, but I will stress that needing a rewatch is a bad thing in my opinion. It is sort of frustrating, because I'm sure it could have been just as meaningful while also being more straightforward in its approach. |
Demonarion said: I was dissapointed with Lain. Just plain out dissapointed. Also there's stuff that's not even adressed, stuff that's simply ignored. For example. At the end of ep6 Lain goes leaves the house to meet 2 Knights that are standing in front of her house. Her room explodes and in ep 7 it's as if that never happened, it's never mentioned or anything and suddenly everyone hates Lain. Those two guys arent Knights, they are from the company that created Lain and they were there to protect her from the nights, the knights planted the bomb in order to make her go to wired and give up on real life. In episode 7 her classmates hates her because they think it was her that spread the rumor about Ahiru fapping to the teacher. |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
Fellener said: Those two guys arent Knights, they are from the company that created Lain and they were there to protect her from the nights, the knights planted the bomb in order to make her go to wired and give up on real life. In episode 7 her classmates hates her because they think it was her that spread the rumor about Ahiru fapping to the teacher. Oh, also I made an error there, I should have said ep 8 not 7. |
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| I would never say Lain is convoluted its just not really straightfoward. I tries to talk a lot about its main theme and it takes a lot of diferent angles and show it really embraces its sci-fi ideas but i believe you can easily get the most important aspects in its first watch. Watching more and more times will make the discussions the anime proposes more interesting and easier to notice and think about it. |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
Fellener said: I would never say Lain is convoluted its just not really straightfoward. I tries to talk a lot about its main theme and it takes a lot of diferent angles and show it really embraces its sci-fi ideas but i believe you can easily get the most important aspects in its first watch. Watching more and more times will make the discussions the anime proposes more interesting and easier to notice and think about it. But didn't you say that Lain crossed the line of being too complex for you? |
| [quote=Demonarion] Fellener said: Oh, also I made an error there, I should have said ep 8 not 7. Her family already completed their job of showing Lain what the human world is like and to show her emotions, they dont really care that much for, except for her dad in some level. About her classmates, its the rumor things. |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
thanna said: Fellener said: I would never say Lain is convoluted its just not really straightfoward. I tries to talk a lot about its main theme and it takes a lot of diferent angles and show it really embraces its sci-fi ideas but i believe you can easily get the most important aspects in its first watch. Watching more and more times will make the discussions the anime proposes more interesting and easier to notice and think about it. But didn't you say that Lain crossed the line of being too complex for you? It crossed the line of being toomuch complex without it being needed. But i dont think its convoluted. Arent they different things? xd |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
| To me it's the same: convoluted means needlessly complex. I may be wrong, it's not like I double-checked the definition ^_^ |
| I meant like really really really really really really complex. But not needless. :/ |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
Fellener said: without it being needed ._. |
| To me it seems like it could have been a better anime if it wasn't this damn complex. You know, like you said if it was more straightforward. |
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| I checked the meaning of convoluted, so i was wrong in that part. '3' |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
| Speaking of needless, I did feel that the episode discussing the Schumann Resonance felt out of place. I think they just put it there for the sake of giving the audience something to understand... |
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| Though I have to say. Compared to what I've heard, there's barely any depression in Lain. |
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| This si the basic of the sci-fi elements of the anime so it would be needed at some point, i dont feel that its out place because it happens in the episode right before Eiri, Masami is introduced as Deus of the wired, so it is also actually used a foreshadowing, not just an infodump. |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
Fellener said: This si the basic of the sci-fi elements of the anime so it would be needed at some point, i dont feel that its out place because it happens in the episode right before Eiri, Masami is introduced as Deus of the wired, so it is also actually used a foreshadowing, not just an infodump. I knew that it was necessary to explain the story, but did it really have to be a whole bunch of random clips? I felt kinda lost during that episode until I was able to piece everything together... |
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| Oh the first of those clips burned my eyes btw >.< I like those because it felt like a documentary, but I'd agree that it wasn't integrated seamlessly into the show. |
Demonarion said: Though I have to say. Compared to what I've heard, there's barely any depression in Lain. Well, it has a dicussion about existentialism, each person takes it as they want. xd |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
thanna said: Oh the first of those clips burned my eyes btw >.< I like those because it felt like a documentary, but I'd agree that it wasn't integrated seamlessly into the show. Arent the clips show in a similar way as they show things in the wired? I always tought it was a "meta" into the wired thing. xD |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
| Honestly, I probably would have liked Lain a lot more if it was more self aware of it's complexity. I know it's not that kind of anime but still. |
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| Well, I won't hold that episode against it, since an explanation was needed. Serial Experiments Lain reminds me of two other things that seem to have a related concept: Expelled from Paradise and |
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Fellener said: thanna said: Oh the first of those clips burned my eyes btw >.< I like those because it felt like a documentary, but I'd agree that it wasn't integrated seamlessly into the show. Arent the clips show in a similar way as they show things in the wired? I always tought it was a "meta" into the wired thing. xD Yeah it was like a random wiki walk x) |
| One thing i find awsome in Lain is that internet became really a thing in Japan in 1996. The anime was made in 1998 and show us how we use internet in modern days. |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
Demonarion said: I think Demonarion and I have almost identical opinions on Lain, so I won't rewrite everything he said. Mostly, I just wanted all of that confusing mess to be explained better. The explanation that it did give was good, and I liked the way it ended, but there are SO many things that I still don't understand and/or weren't explained. Which makes me feel they were things that were included in the anime with no purpose except to be weird and confuse people. For example, what was all of that with Lain's fake-sister? I remember in one scene involving the sister, we saw the Knights symbol, so I'm guessing they did something to her? But for what reason and what purpose, I have no idea. Every scene with her after that made zero sense to me. Did they ever explain the scene when there were two of her that ran into each other, and Lain saw the ghost-like (Wired?) version of her sister? And they seemed to make a big deal out of her practically drooling all over herself and making that same strange noise over and over... Like Demonarion, I gave it a 5/10. I appreciated the concept and what they tried to do, but I feel it was very poorly executed. I'm sure a lot of people out there truly believe it to be a wonderful masterpiece, and that's great. Lain's just not for everyone. (Also in my imagination I think that about half the people in the discussion threads and half the reviewers, who claim they had it figured out early on and string together a lot of big words to sound smart while calling it masterpiece, all look like Naruto in my head, holding their chins and nodding sagely like he does when he's pretending to know what's going on. lol :P ) |
| I agree with a lot of the opinions in here so I won't really bother repeating my views on the story. However, I'd just like to mention that the show had fantastic art and sound/music. For a series from 1998 it's absolutely beautiful and had superb music. I thought the animation style and angles used really helped the show out. I thought the voice acting was also pretty good. The art/animation/music upped my overall score of the series by at least two points. |
| Some of you guys are refering to Lain as being complex and using it as a bad thing saying it needed more explanations or it was too confusing. But dont you guys think being complex is a quality? Being complex makes Lain a really different anime. It never spoon feed you with everything that is happening, like a lot of anime imfodumps you. It makes you think, makes you question what is going on, it kinda creates a dialogue between you and the anime as you try to figure out stuff and you take conclusions about its themes and presentation. And when you actually complete the whole puzzle after it made you wonder about it, you get an amazing feeling. Dont you guys agree with that? |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
Fellener said: Some of you guys are refering to Lain as being complex and using it as a bad thing saying it needed more explanations or it was too confusing. But dont you guys think being complex is a quality? Being complex makes Lain a really different anime. It never spoon feed you with everything that is happening, like a lot of anime imfodumps you. It makes you think, makes you question what is going on, it kinda creates a dialogue between you and the anime as you try to figure out stuff and you take conclusions about its themes and presentation. And when you actually complete the whole puzzle after it made you wonder about it, you get an amazing feeling. Dont you guys agree with that? I don't think there's anything wrong with an anime being complex, but it seems to me like you aren't understanding why some of the others and myself have issues with Lain. Personally, I found it too complex, and it didn't "complete the whole puzzle" as you put it. It was more like a ridiculously difficult puzzle that was missing pieces at the end so the full picture isn't clear, but also had extra pieces left over that were completely unnecessary and you don't know what to make of them. |
| But there isnt more pieces than it needed neither missing ones. Everything is there. :c |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
Fellener said: But there isnt more pieces than it needed neither missing ones. Everything is there. :c Well seems like you got it all figured out then. Good for you. There's a whole lot about Lain that I still don't understand. |
| You want to discuss those parts, saying what we think of then so we might try to get somewhere? '3' |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
Fellener said: You want to discuss those parts, saying what we think of then so we might try to get somewhere? '3' I already posted a couple things. |
| Nothing is wrong with complexity as long as it makes sense in the end... |
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| Story: The story was pretty interesting but the way the anime tries to show a bunch of stuff down your throat at once make things unnecessarily tricky to follow. There was also several moments of techno-babel that was pretty much pointless fluff and empty words. Characters: Lain herself is a pretty boring. The rest of the character are kinda just there and similarly flat. Most of them are just there for Lain to awkwardly stare at and/or occasionally ask questions to. What happened to Lain's sister was not talked about was given no significance nor meaning (WHY?). Art: Horrible but it gets a pass cause it came out in 1998. Voice Acting: The only two people whose voices fit them just right are Tero, The blond man in black, and sometimes Lain. Miscellaneous: The drug seen at the begin never came up again and I feel like it should have as it could have made for a good addition to the story. The other version of Lain in the wire should have made a bigger addition to the story. The thing between Alisa and the teacher was pretty pointless, just something to pad the stories length. Question: What happened to Lain's sister??? This could have been something great and I had lofty hopes for it. 5.5/10 |
Kuri_TT0Aug 13, 2015 5:33 PM
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| That drug in the beginning was another one of those things that seemed thrown in there and I didn't really understand, and they never talked about it again. |
StarSushi said: For example, what was all of that with Lain's fake-sister? I remember in one scene involving the sister, we saw the Knights symbol, so I'm guessing they did something to her? But for what reason and what purpose, I have no idea. Every scene with her after that made zero sense to me. Did they ever explain the scene when there were two of her that ran into each other, and Lain saw the ghost-like (Wired?) version of her sister? And they seemed to make a big deal out of her practically drooling all over herself and making that same strange noise over and over... That scene shows the Knights atacking her using the wired to cause her allucinations in the real world. The Knights are following orders from Deus and he wants to take Lain into the wired, thats why he is atacking her. Because of the violent hallucinations, Mika gets stuck between the physical world and the Wired. |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
StarSushi said: That drug in the beginning was another one of those things that seemed thrown in there and I didn't really understand, and they never talked about it again. They basically say that the drug changes the way your mind process things and later on when they explain how the connection between the wired and real world will happen its told that the process is something close to that. So the drug its used to make the barrier between the wired and the real world thiner. |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
| I see a lot of complaints about the complexity of the series. That's one thing I didn't mind. I think the enjoyment that comes from Lain is just trying to figure out what's happening. I think if it had been made any less "complex" that would somewhat ruin the point of the anime. From what I got the point of this anime isn't to enjoy the viewing experience but to enjoy decoding it. It's not supposed to be easy to figure out what's going on - in fact the opposite, the anime is made to be a challenge. The series doesn't expect you to understand it the first go round, it wants you to work to figure it out. Some people won't like this, others will. Lain isn't an anime for everyone, different people get enjoyment out of different things. I see complaints about parts Lain not making sense but can you really say that after just watching it once? That's part of the reason I was a bit conflicted on the anime at first - it's very difficult to tell if you're missing the answers or if they're just not there. After reading some write-ups on Lain I've concluded that they are. I might go back and rewatch the series if I ever feel like a challenge. EDIT: Wow... 8 post while I was writing this xD |
| Every single time you rewatch it, you see a new perspective and find new things and new ways its theme is explored, its really amazing indeed. xD |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
StarSushi said: That drug in the beginning was another one of those things that seemed thrown in there and I didn't really understand, and they never talked about it again. I think that was there to show the influence the Wired can have on the real world, I agree with Fellener on this. |
| I think that was there to show the influence the Wired can have on the real world, I agree with Fellener on this.[/quote] Still thought it was never brought forth again and could have added more to the story. [quote=FriedNut]I see a lot of complaints about the complexity of the series. That's one thing I didn't mind. I think the enjoyment that comes from Lain is just trying to figure out what's happening. I think if it had been made any less "complex" that would somewhat ruin the point of the anime. From what I got the point of this anime isn't to enjoy the viewing experience but to enjoy decoding it. It's not supposed to be easy to figure out what's going on - in fact the opposite, the anime is made to be a challenge. The series doesn't expect you to understand it the first go round, it wants you to work to figure it out. Some people won't like this, others will. Lain isn't an anime for everyone, different people get enjoyment out of different things. The way I felt about the complexity was that it was kind of forced and unnatural. To me its complexity comes more from the way its told that being large dumps of info all at once |
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| Like I said, there is a LOT to take in. Don't try to understand everything in one go. One of the things that this anime tests you on is attention to detail. Remember that guy who took the drug? He saw Lain and said "No! I don't want anything to do with the Wired!" or something like that. And then when you watch the later episodes, you begin to get an understanding of why these events are happening... |
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ChestNutKamhamha said: I think that was there to show the influence the Wired can have on the real world, I agree with Fellener on this. Still thought it was never brought forth again and could have added more to the story. [/quote] I don't think it needed to, I feel it served it's purpose in the story. Anything more would have distracted from the other elements of the story. Just because something's cool doesn't mean it needs to be used more. ChestNutKamhamha said: The way I felt about the complexity was that it was kind of forced and unnatural. To me its complexity comes more from the way its told that being large dumps of info all at once I disagree with this as well. Sure there were some large dumps of info like with the KIDS but there was a lot of more minor details that added to it that would be easy to overlook, like in the sound and animation. I didn't feel like the dumps were too large either and they all tied together with the other goings on in the anime. |
ChestNutKamhamha said: Still thought it was never brought forth again and could have added more to the story. The whole anime is about that... That was just one way of many they were using to break the wall. |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
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