Insertanamehere said: Oh wait, I take that back regardless. Shirou does kill Gil with a headshot. So would I, but given we don't have a Fate route it would make her seem like even more of a character who is just kind of....there, than she already is, which certainly wouldn't be a point in UBW's favour to new watchers. Why they cut out the reactions in the shed is beyond me. For the first time in history, they portrayed Seiba correctly What else do you ask for? |
June93 said: chickenonthepan said: -Not really as just Archer, Caster, and Rin have vehicled Shirou's development.Uhm, you know, sometimes a good story need a good plot device. Saber plays a part in Shirou's development, so she is not irrelevant. Vacuous? Maybe. Writing a character arc for her in UBW is not Ufo's job. If you want one, Nasu is the man to ask for. Since Nasu wrote a short story for her that will be included with the BD, I believe that they had decided to ignore Saber in this adaption. Her "development" will be offscreen. End of the story. I don't think that's bad since we will have more time for 3 main characters in this route. And for Caster, ofc. I have to agree with Fai that I'd like to have more about Shirou (and Archer) rather than have more about a side character. -UBW can't stand on its own as it's only 1/3 of a story, the VN route works because you already know all about Saber from the first route so you can understand her growth by the end of the story without retreading back into already known territory. Here though UBW is the singular narrative so anyone not familiar with the source material will be confused by the end when with Answer when Saber goes "oh lol i get it". It's just plain bad writing and it's surprising that the staff chose to not capitalize on such numerous, blatant openings for characterization. -External material -Saber takes up a lot of screen time that could have been used for the actual characters in the story, like the protagonist, all of which has been wasted. Ufo dun goofed, that's the end of the story So Ufo should rush things like fuck to give Saber some char arc. Meanwhile people that see Fate/ for the first time dont give a fuck. |
| In other words online communities that know of the original source and expect that. Saber is Shirou's Servant and as far as newcomers are concerned she is just there to fight for Shirou(and Rin). Exactly like she was in UBW VN. |
Othi-tan said: In other words online communities that know of the original source and expect that. Saber is Shirou's Servant and as far as newcomers are concerned she is just there to fight for Shirou(and Rin). Exactly like she was in UBW VN. I don't understand how you can claim this is not an issue. Lack of character development for the character with the fourth highest screen time is a major issue. You only thing this way because you've read the VN. Meanwhile for anime only viewers Saber is just a superstrong moeblob. June93 said: Either cut down on her screen time or do something with her character in the numerous scenes she appears in. Those training scenes being one example or the shed scene in the end of episode 11 where while Archer was shit talking on Shirou's ideal, something that she should be able to empathize with, we got absolutely no emotive input on her part (instead time was dedicated to Rin's assets) . It's just a clear fault in the writing to have this much screen time allocated to a character who has nothing to add to the narrative. Saber being a non-character is a common complaint I've seen in the other online communities name it Beast's Lair, Neogaf, /a/, or what have you. I still do sort of hope they make at least some effort in the BD's-she doesn't even really need additional content, just alter her scene in the shed. |
InsertanamehereFeb 12, 2015 3:05 AM
Insertanamehere said: Othi-tan said: In other words online communities that know of the original source and expect that. Saber is Shirou's Servant and as far as newcomers are concerned she is just there to fight for Shirou(and Rin). Exactly like she was in UBW VN. I don't understand how you can claim this is not an issue. Lack of character development for the character with the fourth highest screen time is a major issue. You only thing this way because you've read the VN. Meanwhile for anime only viewers Saber is just a superstrong moeblob. June93 said: Either cut down on her screen time or do something with her character in the numerous scenes she appears in. Those training scenes being one example or the shed scene in the end of episode 11 where while Archer was shit talking on Shirou's ideal, something that she should be able to empathize with, we got absolutely no emotive input on her part (instead time was dedicated to Rin's assets) . It's just a clear fault in the writing to have this much screen time allocated to a character who has nothing to add to the narrative. Saber being a non-character is a common complaint I've seen in the other online communities name it Beast's Lair, Neogaf, /a/, or what have you. I still do sort of hope they make at least some effort in the BD's-she doesn't even really need additional content, just add her scene in the shed. At this point I'm not sure if it's more frustrating or hilarious the fact that almost all problems people have with the adaptation could be fixed with such minor tweaks. It's as if they went and removed essential parts on purpose. But yea, BDs are what will make or break it as an adaptation. Either way, I'd really like to know what has been going through Miura's head while he was making this (other than Rin's ass, that is). |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
HungryPriest said: Either way, I'd really like to know what has been going through Miura's head while he was making this (other than Rin's ass, that is). "Hey they hired me again that must mean they like how completely I fucked Oblivion Recording, I'll do the same thing here" :DDD "We don't need depth, just some fanservice and cool action" |
| Now this begin to get annoying... This is not perfect, but it is nowhere near fucked. (HungryPriest proves that he is not much better than Fai) How much time was dedicated to Rin's assets? Could you tell me? This is the shittiest complain I ever hear. Oh, I remember now, June. You said that they wasted episode 9 because we had Rin's cameo with Shirou about Issei. Then we had Shirou meets Rin in front of Matou household (let alone they meet Gil for the first time thanks to that). They should cut all of that to get screen time for Saber. If they cut these, I bet we would have even more rage. Rin-Shirou relationship already feel a little rushed. If you cut these too, what's left? And I'm sure Rin-Shrou relationship is 100 times more important than Seiba. If Ufo goofed, it is the scene in the shed where they "forgot" to give Saber the reaction. And I agree that they goofed in that scene. But adding additional content for Saber is not their job. That's how it is in the VN. I'm waiting for similar complains about Rider in HF if Ufo doesn't give her a character arc. I'm pretty sure it will be: "Nah, it's not Miura, so it's ok. I let it pass, that's how it is in the VN anyway" |
Just_ChickenFeb 12, 2015 7:23 AM
Insertanamehere said: HungryPriest said: Either way, I'd really like to know what has been going through Miura's head while he was making this (other than Rin's ass, that is). "Hey they hired me again that must mean they like how completely I fucked Oblivion Recording, I'll do the same thing here" :DDD "We don't need depth, just some fanservice and cool action" It's annoying if overused, you know... |
| He took Saber is a robot a little too literal, they might fix her reaction in the BD. Show Saber making funny faces in the background during Answer. Leave her short little monologue when she disappears and flash to her pulling the sword or w/e was suggested yesterday. They could put something in the 2nd half BD for her because imo Shirou/Archer stuff is more important for the broadcast version. |
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chickenonthepan said: This is not perfect, but it is nowhere near fucked. (HungryPriest proves that he is not much better than Fai) Yes, it is so fucked up it might end up being the worst anime in this decade. Which is why all the horrible decisions and inaccuracies have forced me to lower the personal score for this piece of shit from 10 down to 9. It takes quite the talent to destroy the adaptation like that. (The above was a sarcasm, in case it needs to be spelled out.) You know what's really annoying? People like you and Fake shitting on others' opinions when it comes to criticizing the adaptation. The fact is that FSN is one of the most popular VNs ever made. As such, many people have very high standard for the adaptation and that makes all the criticism sound very harsh. But that doesn't change the fact that, as far as animes go, it is still a very good anime. You need to learn to accept that some things can be both good and have harsh criticism at the same time. In fact, the reason why people "bash" it so hard is because it is good and has so much more potential. Is it so hard to believe that many people want to see a story they love presented in the best way possible? Lastly, allow me to explain my Miura line, since reading comprehension isn't your strongest point. There are a lot of places in the anime that with only a small tweaks would fix most of the problems. Add a few scenes and we have all problems solved. Now let us imagine, for the sake of argument, that all that ends up in the BD release, in which case I would wonder why the hell would Miura not have those in TV version (sans the extra scenes). What sane reason would there be? And in case they're not in the BD release, then I would wonder why he is so fixated to the whole "show, don't tell" concept? And if he so far showed such an aversion toward (internal) monologues, what does that mean for the Answer? It's a valid concern. |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
| We already know what Answer is without internal monologues, thanks DEEN. |
|
| As you said somewhere before, it's a discussion forum. They have the right to say their opinion, we have the right to disagree. I am one of the people you say. I love this anime, but I have criticism for it. But it doesn't mean I have to agree with you all. For example, "focus on Rin's assets", how much time was spent for that? And it's not like they have time-restriction and each person has different aspect of the show that they considered "important". Btw, saying something like that and then proceed to bash my reading comprehension is not nice. |
chickenonthepan said: Insertanamehere said: "Hey they hired me again that must mean they like how completely I fucked Oblivion Recording, I'll do the same thing here" :DDD "We don't need depth, just some fanservice and cool action" It's annoying if overused, you know... I'm sorry I don't much respect for a guy who botched up on the adaptations of two of my favourite works of their original mediums, when a few simplistic changes could have made it much better. chickenonthepan said: Oh, I remember now, June. You said that they wasted episode 9 because we had Rin's cameo with Shirou about Issei. Then we had Shirou meets Rin in front of Matou household (let alone they meet Gil for the first time thanks to that). They should cut all of that to get screen time for Saber. If they cut these, I bet we would have even more rage. Rin-Shirou relationship already feel a little rushed. If you cut these too, what's left? And I'm sure Rin-Shrou relationship is 100 times more important than Seiba. Yes, but on the other hand people eating is not more important than actually giving her a character. I'm waiting for similar complains about Rider in HF if Ufo doesn't give her a character arc. I'm pretty sure it will be: "Nah, it's not Miura, so it's ok. I let it pass, that's how it is in the VN anyway" But that's the truth, Rider isn't much of a character in HF, which June already stated above. Saber on the other hand actually has a character which was thrown away here. It's even moreso damning given that the impact of what happens in HF is already greatly lessened without Fate, now it'll be"that boring moeblob got eaten, okay" "oh wow sabers so much cooler now when shes not eating shes much better as a bad guy" |
chickenonthepan said: As you said somewhere before, it's a discussion forum. I said that in the ep discussion thread if we're going to be exact. That's one of the places where you'd expect everything posted to be a part of the discussion. Elsewhere it may or may not, imo. They have the right to say their opinion, we have the right to disagree. Using strawman argumentation to present others as if they claimed that the adaptation is the worst thing ever is not disagreeing, it's just being an idiot. I don't have a problem with anyone disagreeing with anything, I only first started complaining because of statements like that. I am one of the people you say. I love this anime, but I have criticism for it. But it doesn't mean I have to agree with you all. See above. For example, "focus on Rin's assets", how much time was spent for that? I never made those arguments myself. I only ever use it as a sarcastic joking material. And it's not like they have time-restriction and each person has different aspect of the show that they considered "important". Which is why my main complaints are things that don't require entire scenes, but things like one or two extra lines. Also, I don't remember me trying to shove my sense of "importantness" onto others. In fact, it feels the other way around, strawman argumentation makes the other person's argument seem as if it is factually wrong hence, having to fight an uphill battle if he takes the bait. Btw, saying something like that and then proceed to bash my reading comprehension is not nice. I don't see where my comprehension was inaccurate. Please point it out for me. |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
| So all this time people shit on ufoFSN not because it isnt a good series but because it didnt reach their expectations. Right. So you guys are so obsessed with that that you have to say it again and again in several threads?And then get angry because others disagree with your overreactions?Because thats what it is based on what you just said Hungry. So many circlejerks because of "what it could have been" when it is already pretty good according to you.I really dont get it.Instead of being happy that it is already that good we bash them for what it could have been? |
Othi-tan said: So all this time people shit on ufoFSN not because it isnt a good series but because it didnt reach their expectations. "Good" being a relative term here, but yes. I really dont get it. You're right about that as well. You seem to be unable to comprehend a form of communication where people don't twist each other's arguments. Something I pointed out several times. Allow me to repost: I said: Using strawman argumentation to present others as if they claimed that the adaptation is the worst thing ever is not disagreeing, it's just being an idiot. I don't have a problem with anyone disagreeing with anything, I only first started complaining because of statements like that. You're also imprinting your perception of "our" arguments as a general fact ("overreactions"). Not to mention lumping everyone together in this so-called "Fai team" even though everyone have slightly different view on it. Next you're trying to dismiss the whole "circlejerking" simply because "you don't get it" and enforce (intentionally or unintentionally) your general outlook on others (anyone who agrees with anything that Fai says is a toxic troll and everyone should just be happy and not complain at all). Need I go on? |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
| Chicken agrees with Fai as well in some cases.But he refuses to see how the series is totally ruined without even looking at the second cour like Fai does. Which is MY and Chicken's problem.Till we went and become the "bad VN guys" that disagree with Fai's bullshit negativity, nobody was disagreeing with that.Then we had one page of people calling him obnoxious and tiring but thats it. Makes us think that, yes people do agree with everything he says.Fai got to the point where almost every scene is badly done and everything is ruined.I dont see anyone of you disagreeing with that.Which means that ufoUBW isnt even relatively good according to you all. You guys have your issues with ufo, I get it.I cant change it even if I dont see them or dont care enough for them.What I dont get is that acceptance of Fai's pessimistic opinion about all of it.So tell me how can I not group you together?In other words it is ok to accept everything one is saying about doomsday but is isnt not ok when someone says that it isnt that bad? I really dont she the "slightly different view on it" when you never disagree with him and only respond to us for not being like Fai. There is no strawman when we only see you agree with Fai, with all the issues me and Chicken have with Fai's criticism. |
Othi-tan said: But he refuses to see how the series is totally ruined without even looking at the second cour like Fai does. Except he doesn't. This is just you pulling flowers out of your ass again. Which is MY and Chicken's problem.Till we went and become the "bad VN guys" that disagree with Fai's bullshit negativity, nobody was disagreeing with that.Then we had one page of people calling him obnoxious and tiring but thats it. Makes us think that, yes people do agree with everything he says.Fai got to the point where almost every scene is badly done and everything is ruined.I dont see anyone of you disagreeing with that.Which means that ufoUBW isnt even relatively good according to you all. Fai bashing was about his constant poison posting iirc. The rest of this is putting words into people's mouths. I guess you know better than them. You guys have your issues with ufo, I get it.I cant change it even if I dont see them or dont care enough for them.What I dont get is that acceptance of Fai's pessimistic opinion about all of it.So tell me how can I not group you together?In other words it is ok to accept everything one is saying about doomsday but is isnt not ok when someone says that it isnt that bad? What's "pessimistic" for you looks "realistic" to me. Again, this is an issue with you not understanding others' point of view and running in to "fix" that. Also, you're putting words in others' mouths again. I really dont she the "slightly different view on it" when you never disagree with him and only respond to us for not being like Fai. Personally, I respond to your posts because I find them extremely toxic, not because of what you're disagreeing with. I gave up on those with you. Oh, and you're putting words in other's mouths again. I think I'm seeing a pattern here. There is no strawman when we only see you agree with Fai, with all the issues me and Chicken have with Fai's criticism. There are several right in your post here. Also, what does it matter who agrees with who about what? Maybe it's because he has many valid points? Are you trying to say that people have wrong opinions? Or that this is just another illuminati plot against you and chickin? Sans all Fai's negativity and attitude, he does provide very good argumentation to most of his claims whether you like it or not (except when it's about Sakura). |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
HungryPriest said: Except he doesn't. Yes he does. Not totally, but nearly for him. Even fight scenes are mostly bad now. |
chickenonthepan said: HungryPriest said: Except he doesn't. Yes he does. Not totally, but nearly for him. Even fight scenes are mostly bad now. Most of them aren't really anything special, tbh. And I know it's been repeated a lot, but Prillya does show good examples of how fight scenes should be done. Also, you're saying that Fai claims the show to be ruined completely while ignoring BDs/2nd cour? Because that's what my line was about. |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
| Yes Hungry I am just crazy and Chicken even more for agreeing with me and Fai never said all those. 1 out of many Let me guess.Sarcasm...Oh wait that was a few posts before you called me out about strawman arguments. Also yes there are wrong opinions.Just because it is an opinion doesnt mean it is flawless. You agree with fai and I dont.You see my problems with you guys as toxic and wrong.Well my problems are my opinion.According to you my opinion cant be wrong.So lets keep the "protection of opinions" out of it. Now please go on with your bullshit whitewashing of Fai. Lets ignore that Fai makes generalizations,speaks on behalf of people we and he dont know and ignores those that represent them as FSN newcomers. Oh yeah did I mention the bias where he doesnt care about HF as long as UBW is done right?I dont see the love for the popular VN here.Or is that a strawman again? |
| Man, you're making it too easy. I'm more arguing your way of argumentation rather than the actual content here. Let me break this one down for ya. You said: But he refuses to see how the series is totally ruined without even looking at the second cour like Fai does. You argue how Fai flags show ruined while ignoring future content. As a proof you post that quote. However... Fai said: ...we need either some brilliant BD scenes OR a whole episode... Fai says how it would be fine with certain BD content or an episode in the second cour. Then you proceed to claim how that quote somehow proves your point. What point? The above clearly refutes what you said. So the hell are you talking about now? And why are you talking about strawmans here? Strawman argumentation takes someone else's argument and twists it to sound idiotic. I don't see anyone else's argument there. Or are you talking about S;G comparison? That's hypothetical scenario, not a strawman. I'm not even going to try to understand the rest of that post, because it would turn into an essay. It feels as if a bunch of impulsive thoughts got glued together without any sort of cohesion. Each of your posts tend to look as if you forgot half the things said before. Yes, I think you really are crazy. Chicken not, though. |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
| Speaking of strawmans. Yeah extra content that he assumes Miura wont add because he is Miura and an entire original Shirou ep.Or else everything is ruined.Because without those the second cour will 100% be shit. Yeah he really isnt overreacting at all. |
Othi-tan said: Speaking of strawmans. Yeah extra content that he assumes Miura wont add because he is Miura and an entire original Shirou ep.Or else everything is ruined.Because without those the second cour will 100% be shit. Yeah he really isnt overreacting at all. Strawman argumentation takes someone else's argument and twists it to sound idiotic. I don't see anyone else's argument there. Each of your posts tend to look as if you forgot half the things said before. You argue how Fai flags show ruined while ignoring future content. The above clearly refutes what you said. I'm more arguing your way of argumentation rather than the actual content here. |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
Insertanamehere said: My view: To be honest, I think it's too much for just 12 episodes to fit in--my optimal pacing for the events in each episode ended up with me going 5 episodes over the limit and I have to pack a lot of stuff into just one episode. Fortunately, last episode will be 1 hour long. something like this |
Othi-tan said: Speaking of strawmans. Yeah extra content that he assumes Miura wont add because he is Miura and an entire original Shirou ep.Or else everything is ruined.Because without those the second cour will 100% be shit. Yeah he really isnt overreacting at all. One of the most significant examples of Fai's pessimism is that of each 20 of your comments about FSN UBW, nor even suggests 1 point positive... and this is much tiresome... |
survivor_heroFeb 15, 2015 10:26 AM
I am Hatedmainofanime. More no one. |
| Looks like some revision is going to ve needed. Insertanamehere said: Revised verson + Chickens ideas |
| Reaction Channels for Fate/Stay Night UBW (TV) first season second season |
MagicalMeido said: Looks like some revision is going to ve needed. Insertanamehere said: Revised verson + Chickens ideas might as well delete everything past Ep1 since anime original bullshit HEYOOOOOOOO |
 |
| Lol I guess my speculation was too optimistic. Which is exactly the opposite of what I thought it was, but, hey, whats life without surprises? |
Insertanamehere said: whats life without surprises? Fiction. Just likethe idea of proper fsn adaptation sadly |
|
| I still wonder how they are going to pull off the giant asspull of in the anime, or if they're just going to leave it as is without explaining shit. |
 |
| Great list, Steve. 10/10. They're definitely gonna adapt it like that. |
WormPriest said: Great list, Steve. 10/10. They're definitely gonna adapt it like that. It's how we wished they did it. |
Insertanamehere said: WormPriest said: Great list, Steve. 10/10. They're definitely gonna adapt it like that. It's how we wished they did it. Not enough content though, sorry guys. |
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nocorras said: Insertanamehere said: It's how we wished they did it. Not enough content though, sorry guys. Dont worry Miura will fix that problem 8D |
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Mickdrew said: June93 said: The Saber train has long passed, they had as many windows of opportunity as there are stars in the sky to develop a character arc and chose to ignore every single one. As of now Saber is just a secondary, non-character whose detrimental to the quality of the narrative by having a lot of screen time while being completely vacuous and irrelevant, 'sorta like Rider in HF.  But but, Rider was best girl |
Insertanamehere said: I don't understand how you can claim this is not an issue. Lack of character development for the character with the fourth highest screen time is a major issue. You only thing this way because you've read the VN. Meanwhile for anime only viewers Saber is just a superstrong moeblob. Protaganist, deuteragonist, and tritagonist plus sometimes an antagonist which usually is filled by the deuteragonist. I see no place for the 4th character, in any form of literature. There is no such thing as a quadrupogonist or fourthagonist. So I don't see the issue in the 4th character of the story not getting that much development. Especially when the 4th character never gets much development in any form of writing. Shirou, Archer, and Rin are the 3 main and you can say Archer/Caster fill the antagonist role... there is no room for saber. Therefore, there is no room to complain about her development. |
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| >UBW route >complaining about Saber's development Wut You guys make no sense srsly UFO already said they won't focus on saber in this adaptation ( even if she is like the 4th char in order of importance during UBW) , and Nasu already said his main specifications for her character was to draw and make her look pretty (LMAO) The only major dev. she has in UBW is near the end, so at least I hope they represent that in some manner at least And if you guys want saber dev, pray for a future adaptation of fate route after the HF movies |
Mathias2001 said: it's a lieMightyM16 said: >UBW route >complaining about Saber's development Wut You guys make no sense srsly UFO already said they won't focus on saber in this adaptation ( even if she is like the 4th char in order of importance during UBW) , and Nasu already said his main specifications for her character was to draw and make her look pretty (LMAO) The only major dev. she has in UBW is near the end, so at least I hope they represent that in some manner at least And if you guys want saber dev, pray for a future adaptation of fate route after the HF movies The studio is thinking about doing HA if Heaven Feels and UBW gets enough sales so I dunno if they will ever get their Fate Route |
| BAN ME |
Mathias2001 said: The studio is thinking about doing HA if Heaven Feels and UBW gets enough sales so I dunno if they will ever get their Fate Route HA needs Fate route to work though. |
Insertanamehere said: Mathias2001 said: The studio is thinking about doing HA if Heaven Feels and UBW gets enough sales so I dunno if they will ever get their Fate Route HA needs Fate route to work though. Android Fate route. |
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OneTrueEmiya said: Insertanamehere said: HA needs Fate route to work though. Android Fate route. Then at least make a world wide release for everyone not just to the japs |
MightyM16 said: OneTrueEmiya said: Android Fate route. Then at least make a world wide release for everyone not just to the japs no one cares about gaijins |
Insertanamehere said: MightyM16 said: Then at least make a world wide release for everyone not just to the japs no one cares about gaijins ;-; |
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