Sword Art Online (light novel)
| id say aria in the starless sky is part of the main story but the ME's like monochrome concerto and the rest aren't part of the main story as they contradict each other a lot |
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| To be honest I also thought when I started reading the LN that their relationship progression went a little too fast. When the anime just began I thought it was pretty incoherent, but now that I think of it, it probably presents the best chronological version of how things went. But I doubt the author will ever get to fix vol. 1 to make all those stories fit seamlessly seeing that there would only need to be minor fixes and mentions here and there. Perhaps after the whole novel is finished? |
| No. Asuna said that she fell in love with Kirito in the sleeping under the tree scene, aka the side story Murder Case in the Area(episode 6 and 7 of the anime). In no ways was it mentioned that that was their first meeting. It was mentioned also in volume 1 that they meet together in boss meetings. If anything, in Aria in the Starless Night, Kirito gave Asuna the drive to survive and fight to clear the game. Then later on in Murder Case, he kind of shown Asuna how to live and enjoy life in the game. So it doesn't contradict the point where Asuna fell in love with Kirito. With that, I don't consider Rondo(ME8) and Monochrome(ME9) to be canon, as any interactions between them after Aria severely contradicts the fact that they tend to disagree often in boss meetings(as mentioned in volume 7 and 8) and rarely talk outside of those meetings. Rondo and Monochrome has them partying and they get along too much. That's why Aria saw print in Dengeki and Rondo and Monochrome stayed in doujin form. |
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NeverSleep said: kamikaze_1996 said: id say aria in the starless sky is part of the main story but the ME's like monochrome concerto and the rest aren't part of the main story as they contradict each other a lot I also have this feeling, from where Aria in the Starless Night left, they could just have forgotten each other after a while, but the other side stories after contradicts a lot, maybe that's why they're not in a book but as a side story. The anime kind of promote somethings to canon though. In doubt, only consider what's on the released volumes and possibly the anime since it usually have the author supervising a few things. Lol haven't you realized that every episode BESIDES Aria have been released Volumes? AND Aria contridicts Volume 8 Murder in the Area directly when Kirito mentions this is the first time he's partying with Asuna. inb4 "LOLthe characters must have forgotten". More like "LOL the writer retconned it and now we're covering up bad writing." The way I see it, it's just a bunch of LN whiners complaining about a "crappy" adaptation of Aria, when I contend that they should be greatful they decided to put it in the anime at all. |
plushkinAug 8, 2012 9:21 AM
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| ^ kiss my ass plushkin, i know very well that aria in the starless sky contradicts the LN, in vol.1 asuna states that around the first time she met him was when he was relaxing under the tree and even on vol.8 it says thats its his first time partying with asuna "Now that I think about this, this is the first time I'm teaming up with this girl" but hey, in vol.1 he said that he has never been into a restaurant with asuna before which contradicts what he did in vol.8 aria in the starless sky (the actual novel) was released by reki after he wrote volume 8 and he clearly said in the authors notes that he will be writing about kirito's first sword and how he beat the first boss, it also explains how the term beater came about and how he got his black attire so i would consider it part of the main story however the other material editions and the web sidestories that were never released as a novel aren't part of the story and they are inconstant with each other and contradict each other too much |
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kamikaze_1996 said: ^ kiss my ass plushkin, i know very well that aria in the starless sky contradicts the LN, in vol.1 asuna states that around the first time she met him was when he was relaxing under the tree and even on vol.8 it says thats its his first time partying with asuna "Now that I think about this, this is the first time I'm teaming up with this girl" but hey, in vol.1 he said that he has never been into a restaurant with asuna before which contradicts what he did in vol.8 aria in the starless sky (the actual novel) was released by reki after he wrote volume 8 and he clearly said in the authors notes that he will be writing about kirito's first sword and how he beat the first boss, it also explains how the term beater came about and how he got his black attire so i would consider it part of the main story however the other material editions and the web sidestories that were never released as a novel aren't part of the story and they are inconstant with each other and contradict each other too much LOL that's my point. I take these people's argument and I turn it on itself. They propose the sidestories are not canon because they are not volume publications and contradict the main story, and yet they consider Aria canon. But Aria itself is a non-volume publication and it also contradicts the main story. The fact that volume 8 contradicts volume 1 suddenly makes it ok, does it? it's odd that i'm getting hate for a series I love, but hey, that's whiners for you. lol stay classy |
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| The author said that he'd go back and wrap up inconsistencies/contradictions/clear things up for stories that exist eventually. As for what's canon and what's non-canon, assume that if the SS occurs in the anime, it's most likely canon. The little details don't matter but the fact that the overall event occured does. In that sense, Asuna's first meeting with Kirito was on the first floor and not anywhere. |
| Aria was published just this year in the May 2012 issue(last April). That's why it had that cover page in B-T plus some illustrations by abec. |
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plushkin said: kamikaze_1996 said: ^ kiss my ass plushkin, i know very well that aria in the starless sky contradicts the LN, in vol.1 asuna states that around the first time she met him was when he was relaxing under the tree and even on vol.8 it says thats its his first time partying with asuna "Now that I think about this, this is the first time I'm teaming up with this girl" but hey, in vol.1 he said that he has never been into a restaurant with asuna before which contradicts what he did in vol.8 aria in the starless sky (the actual novel) was released by reki after he wrote volume 8 and he clearly said in the authors notes that he will be writing about kirito's first sword and how he beat the first boss, it also explains how the term beater came about and how he got his black attire so i would consider it part of the main story however the other material editions and the web sidestories that were never released as a novel aren't part of the story and they are inconstant with each other and contradict each other too much LOL that's my point. I take these people's argument and I turn it on itself. They propose the sidestories are not canon because they are not volume publications and contradict the main story, and yet they consider Aria canon. But Aria itself is a non-volume publication and it also contradicts the main story. The fact that volume 8 contradicts volume 1 suddenly makes it ok, does it? it's odd that i'm getting hate for a series I love, but hey, that's whiners for you. lol stay classy say what? im seriously baffled right now -_-? im just gonna say that aria is part of the main story considering Reki is helping out with the anime and he let them animate it |
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kayos90 said: The author said that he'd go back and wrap up inconsistencies/contradictions/clear things up for stories that exist eventually. As for what's canon and what's non-canon, assume that if the SS occurs in the anime, it's most likely canon. The little details don't matter but the fact that the overall event occured does. In that sense, Asuna's first meeting with Kirito was on the first floor and not anywhere. You know what, I can respect that. The SS are interesting enough to be included in the anime. I definitely would like to see a second publication, because these contradictions need to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that some of these contradictions don't just affect the small stuff (when they meet, first time they eat together, etc.), but rather the entire progression of their relationship. Reading the first volume, even though the author doesn't go into too much detail, my brain recognizes the relationship of Kirito/Asuna over 2 years has been a slow progression of raid party -> acquaintances -> friends -> lovers. Nothing was tied by fate or destiny like in other fantasy/sci-fi works, so it felt more natural. Going back and filling in story is fine, but you don't want to retcon their relationship in the process; you don't want to change too much of what was sucessful. "Midi-chlorians" is a good example and a good lesson of what happens if you try to change or add too much in an otherwise great story. And let's face it, we want SAO to be great. It's why we discuss it. =) |
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plushkin said: kayos90 said: The author said that he'd go back and wrap up inconsistencies/contradictions/clear things up for stories that exist eventually. As for what's canon and what's non-canon, assume that if the SS occurs in the anime, it's most likely canon. The little details don't matter but the fact that the overall event occured does. In that sense, Asuna's first meeting with Kirito was on the first floor and not anywhere. You know what, I can respect that. The SS are interesting enough to be included in the anime. I definitely would like to see a second publication, because these contradictions need to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that some of these contradictions don't just affect the small stuff (when they meet, first time they eat together, etc.), but rather the entire progression of their relationship. Reading the first volume, even though the author doesn't go into too much detail, my brain recognizes the relationship of Kirito/Asuna over 2 years has been a slow progression of raid party -> acquaintances -> friends -> lovers. Nothing was tied by fate or destiny like in other fantasy/sci-fi works, so it felt more natural. Going back and filling in story is fine, but you don't want to retcon their relationship in the process; you don't want to change too much of what was sucessful. "Midi-chlorians" is a good example and a good lesson of what happens if you try to change or add too much in an otherwise great story. And let's face it, we want SAO to be great. It's why we discuss it. =) Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the anime is going to be the more canonical version as of now because it's going to be the one with least inconsistencies and contradictions in and of itself. We'll have to see how it turns out. |
kamikaze_1996 said: plushkin said: kamikaze_1996 said: ^ kiss my ass plushkin, i know very well that aria in the starless sky contradicts the LN, in vol.1 asuna states that around the first time she met him was when he was relaxing under the tree and even on vol.8 it says thats its his first time partying with asuna "Now that I think about this, this is the first time I'm teaming up with this girl" but hey, in vol.1 he said that he has never been into a restaurant with asuna before which contradicts what he did in vol.8 aria in the starless sky (the actual novel) was released by reki after he wrote volume 8 and he clearly said in the authors notes that he will be writing about kirito's first sword and how he beat the first boss, it also explains how the term beater came about and how he got his black attire so i would consider it part of the main story however the other material editions and the web sidestories that were never released as a novel aren't part of the story and they are inconstant with each other and contradict each other too much LOL that's my point. I take these people's argument and I turn it on itself. They propose the sidestories are not canon because they are not volume publications and contradict the main story, and yet they consider Aria canon. But Aria itself is a non-volume publication and it also contradicts the main story. The fact that volume 8 contradicts volume 1 suddenly makes it ok, does it? it's odd that i'm getting hate for a series I love, but hey, that's whiners for you. lol stay classy say what? im seriously baffled right now -_-? im just gonna say that aria is part of the main story considering Reki is helping out with the anime and he let them animate it Lol "let them"? But that would also mean he oversaw the adaptation of episode 2, which a ton of people loathed, so there that is. On an aside, I liked episode 2 and it fit well into the story. I don't mind that people consider it part of the main story. I'm merely laughing at their reasoning behind it. |
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kayos90 said: Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the anime is going to be the more canonical version as of now because it's going to be the one with least inconsistencies and contradictions in and of itself. We'll have to see how it turns out. Agreed. If the author is indeed keeping a hand over this series, I'd say that this is his opportunity to repackage the loose ends he created when he first began writing SAO. Like someone mentioned earlier though, a second publication wouldn't be out of the question if he wishes, and it's something I think will make sense once the entire work has been finished. |
tezann_t said: kayos90 said: Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the anime is going to be the more canonical version as of now because it's going to be the one with least inconsistencies and contradictions in and of itself. We'll have to see how it turns out. Agreed. If the author is indeed keeping a hand over this series, I'd say that this is his opportunity to repackage the loose ends he created when he first began writing SAO. Like someone mentioned earlier though, a second publication wouldn't be out of the question if he wishes, and it's something I think will make sense once the entire work has been finished. I would love a republish but I don't think it's realistic, even if he said he was going to do it. I would see something along the lines of him clearing things up as a list of contradictions/inconsistencies in a blogpost/interview. I wouldn't mind this. |
| He's gonna release a new publication in Dengeki called SAO:Progressive this Fall. It's a rewrite of the whole Aincrad arc in chronological order. He hopes to remove the inconsistencies there. It will have a slower release than the main volumes as he wants to prioritizes the Alicization arc more. |
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belatkuro said: He's gonna release a new publication in Dengeki called SAO:Progressive this Fall. It's a rewrite of the whole Aincrad arc in chronological order. He hopes to remove the inconsistencies there. It will have a slower release than the main volumes as he wants to prioritizes the Alicization arc more. I hope it doesn't distract from Alicization too much. I heard it's supposed to be a 5+ novel arc. |
belatkuro said: He's gonna release a new publication in Dengeki called SAO:Progressive this Fall. It's a rewrite of the whole Aincrad arc in chronological order. He hopes to remove the inconsistencies there. It will have a slower release than the main volumes as he wants to prioritizes the Alicization arc more. I suppose this makes sense as a way of retconn without being forced to mess with the entire series. So is this SAO Progressive series going to include more content than currently introduced in the main SAO LNs? Or is it just going to be just him putting all the current pieces in order? Either way, I'm excited for it. |
plushkin said: kamikaze_1996 said: plushkin said: kamikaze_1996 said: ^ kiss my ass plushkin, i know very well that aria in the starless sky contradicts the LN, in vol.1 asuna states that around the first time she met him was when he was relaxing under the tree and even on vol.8 it says thats its his first time partying with asuna "Now that I think about this, this is the first time I'm teaming up with this girl" but hey, in vol.1 he said that he has never been into a restaurant with asuna before which contradicts what he did in vol.8 aria in the starless sky (the actual novel) was released by reki after he wrote volume 8 and he clearly said in the authors notes that he will be writing about kirito's first sword and how he beat the first boss, it also explains how the term beater came about and how he got his black attire so i would consider it part of the main story however the other material editions and the web sidestories that were never released as a novel aren't part of the story and they are inconstant with each other and contradict each other too much LOL that's my point. I take these people's argument and I turn it on itself. They propose the sidestories are not canon because they are not volume publications and contradict the main story, and yet they consider Aria canon. But Aria itself is a non-volume publication and it also contradicts the main story. The fact that volume 8 contradicts volume 1 suddenly makes it ok, does it? it's odd that i'm getting hate for a series I love, but hey, that's whiners for you. lol stay classy say what? im seriously baffled right now -_-? im just gonna say that aria is part of the main story considering Reki is helping out with the anime and he let them animate it Lol "let them"? But that would also mean he oversaw the adaptation of episode 2, which a ton of people loathed, so there that is. On an aside, I liked episode 2 and it fit well into the story. I don't mind that people consider it part of the main story. I'm merely laughing at their reasoning behind it. what are you talking about? thats a good enough reason if any Reki is involved with the anime production, why would he allow uncanonised stories into the anime where it will contradict with the story that he is writing, if he allowed material into the anime that isn't part of the main story and contradicts it, the anime won't last very long and they won't be able to animate more seasons if that happens the anime is relying on the material that the LN/Reki provides, so if they animate anything that isn't part of the main story and would contradict what could be written in later novels, the anime would be screwed |
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tezann_t said: Pretty sure it will have some new content, else he wouldnt be allowed by Dengeki to have a new publication with the content already published before. Just so you know, the side story in vol8, First Day, is a new story not in the web version because he was asked by fans as to what happened after Kirito left Klein when the game started. I'm sure he has ideas for new content.belatkuro said: He's gonna release a new publication in Dengeki called SAO:Progressive this Fall. It's a rewrite of the whole Aincrad arc in chronological order. He hopes to remove the inconsistencies there. It will have a slower release than the main volumes as he wants to prioritizes the Alicization arc more. I suppose this makes sense as a way of retconn without being forced to mess with the entire series. So is this SAO Progressive series going to include more content than currently introduced in the main SAO LNs? Or is it just going to be just him putting all the current pieces in order? Either way, I'm excited for it. |
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kamikaze_1996 said: what are you talking about? thats a good enough reason if any Reki is involved with the anime production, why would he allow uncanonised stories into the anime where it will contradict with the story that he is writing, if he allowed material into the anime that isn't part of the main story and contradicts it, the anime won't last very long and they won't be able to animate more seasons if that happens the anime is relying on the material that the LN/Reki provides, so if they animate anything that isn't part of the main story and would contradict what could be written in later novels, the anime would be screwed Lol what reason? Because it's in the anime, it must be canon? Because "Reki-sama" says it's canon, it must be canon? I'm pretty sure he would also consider Rondo and Concerto canon too, but no one seems to be defending it. I'd pick apart your logic, but I'm pretty sure you've already made up your mind about it. It basically boils down to "I think this should be canon, so I'll say it is", which is fine btw, but it just cracks me up that you think Aria was deemed canon by some higher authoratative power. You somehow seem to be laboring under the falicy that original work >>>>anime adaptation, or that Reki's opinion trumps the production team's. Anime adaptations have deviated from original works before. Anime adaptations have directly contradicted original works before. You think creators never allowed noncanonised stories to be animated before? To employ hyperbole here, the anime's overreliance on the the material that the LN/Reki provided has been a plague on this adaptation. None of the stories ever connect with one another, and it's driving anime only fans nuts. ...Lol but then again, what we're doing right here is 100% speculation, because we have no freaking clue how much creative control Reki has over this project. It's not like he's sitting in the director's chair telling them what to put on the page (if he is, then hey, more power to him. although i would have no idea what the producers would be thinking to do that). |
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plushkin said: kamikaze_1996 said: what are you talking about? thats a good enough reason if any Reki is involved with the anime production, why would he allow uncanonised stories into the anime where it will contradict with the story that he is writing, if he allowed material into the anime that isn't part of the main story and contradicts it, the anime won't last very long and they won't be able to animate more seasons if that happens the anime is relying on the material that the LN/Reki provides, so if they animate anything that isn't part of the main story and would contradict what could be written in later novels, the anime would be screwed Lol what reason? Because it's in the anime, it must be canon? Because "Reki-sama" says it's canon, it must be canon? I'm pretty sure he would also consider Rondo and Concerto canon too, but no one seems to be defending it. I'd pick apart your logic, but I'm pretty sure you've already made up your mind about it. It basically boils down to "I think this should be canon, so I'll say it is", which is fine btw, but it just cracks me up that you think Aria was deemed canon by some higher authoratative power. You somehow seem to be laboring under the falicy that original work >>>>anime adaptation, or that Reki's opinion trumps the production team's. Anime adaptations have deviated from original works before. Anime adaptations have directly contradicted original works before. You think creators never allowed noncanonised stories to be animated before? To employ hyperbole here, the anime's overreliance on the the material that the LN/Reki provided has been a plague on this adaptation. None of the stories ever connect with one another, and it's driving anime only fans nuts. ...Lol but then again, what we're doing right here is 100% speculation, because we have no freaking clue how much creative control Reki has over this project. It's not like he's sitting in the director's chair telling them what to put on the page (if he is, then hey, more power to him. although i would have no idea what the producers would be thinking to do that). again, kiss my ass, Reki is the original creator of SAO what your trying to say is that he can't decide what is canon or not and thats just a load of bull, of course he can decide, he is the goddamn creator of SAO he can write up whatever he wants and if he says its canon its canon also i know adpatations can diverge off their original source but 98% of the time, their unsuccessful because the creator is the only one who knows how the story ends and how it goes, why do you think anime's make fillers most of the time, its because they are waiting for more material from the LN/Manga to be released so they can continue with the story, if they try to diverge its gonna end in failure, almost all the animes that do this end up dead with an incomplete story and no sequel if they didn't add those side stories and made up their own stuff, they would essentially contradict the original story and risk ruining itself also i don't know how much influence Reki has over the director but its obvious why he is there, its so that if the director is thinking of animating something a little different from the LN, Reki can give the heads up and say its perfectly fine or say it will contradict the story why else would he be there other than that? |
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NNick said: Here's A suggestion. Make A separate thread just for LN readers. Discuss whatever the hell you want to. Lol sorry about that, let's bring it back to the topic at hand. The question TC posted is that Volume 1 had Kiroto and Asuna only really known each other for 6 months, but the Aria SS retconned that idea, having them meet at lvl 1. He asks which is right. Now, immediately afterwards, people have argued that they met in Aria (lvl 1) and that Aria is part of the main story. Their reasoning behind this and the fact that ME's were not considered part of the main story was because: a.) Aria's a published work and ME was written under a pseudonym, and b.) ME has story that contradicts the main story. Now from there, I brought up the point that Aria contradicts the main story, and so Aria shouldn't be considered part of the main story. And from there came a flood of nerdrage. I don't know how it happened. I only suggested that only Volume releases be considered canon and they just lost it. |
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NNick said: Here's A suggestion. Make A separate thread just for LN readers. Discuss whatever the hell you want to. thats pretty hilarious considering you have been discussing the LN countless times in the episode discussion threads NNick said: Im Confused, I just forced myself to finish reading Volume 1, does the whole story ends there? I mean NNick said: Well, i just finished reading Volume 3, and it was nowhere near as good as volume 1 in terms of how exited i was to read it. I want SAO Not some NNick said: Well, LN, was good until Also Kirito is such a ___re, he sleeps with every female, not to mention, he's what? 15? i myself am wondering why people are discussing the LN in the anime threads instead of going to the LN threads where they should belong |
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NNick said: Here's A suggestion. Make A separate thread just for LN readers. Discuss whatever the hell you want to. As much as I don't like to flame anyone online, it's ridiculous that you seem so condescending toward LN discussions now considering that (like kamikaze_1996 said) you've been right in the middle of some LN discussions. Personally, I think discussions of whether x or y side story is canon should be held off until SAO: Progressive comes out. Really, the only judge of whether something can be canon is the author himself so there'd be no point of debating about it now when he seems to be shifting a little bit. Maybe he'll find a way to incorporate all the side stories, you never know. |
NeverSleep said: Post full of spoilers, I won't even bother to tag it. [RANT]You guys worry too much about what the author is doing, personally I don't care, dropped the thing in volume 6 because i knew he was going to appear and save Shino from the usual freak stalker guy in love with the girl that fell in love with Kirito, but at the same time I thought it was dumb and maybe, just maybe for once, he didn't use this stunt, but he did, and then I was like "okay, the fucking author did it four times in 6 volumes, and something similar a few more times, fuck it" and dropped the novel. He also did something like this a lot of times in Accel World. Dude, in Sword Art Online the whole thing is dumb, it's in first person, the protagonist is a Gary Stu giving it even more the impression of self-insertion fic, all women fall in love with him and he saves them from the bad guys who fall in love with them what makes them love him even more, but he's on a too high moral ground to be separate from the girl he choose first. It should've ended around volume 4 without that sister in love relationship even being mentioned... I do like the worlds Reki created, but the characters and how they interact sucks, not the plot itself.[/RANT] I can't argue with the idea that the LN comes of as a self-insertion fiction sometimes (all novels are to some extent), but I have to say Reki does create some unique stories out of the common threads we see. I think the best thing about SAO is that Reki adds some nice twists to what we've all probably seen in other animes, mangas, and novels. But I don't know why you'd be on this board if you hate this series that much... |
kamikaze_1996 said: again, kiss my ass, Reki is the original creator of SAO what your trying to say is that he can't decide what is canon or not and thats just a load of bull, of course he can decide, he is the goddamn creator of SAO he can write up whatever he wants and if he says its canon its canon I don't even know how someone had to write this. Seriously? If the author can't decide what is cannon and what isn't, then who will? The fans? Lulz. I don't even... |
belatkuro said: He's gonna release a new publication in Dengeki called SAO:Progressive this Fall. It's a rewrite of the whole Aincrad arc in chronological order. He hopes to remove the inconsistencies there. It will have a slower release than the main volumes as he wants to prioritizes the Alicization arc more. That's great. I hope it turns out well. He's a very talented writer. Even in the early SAO works you could see it. But the whole overall story in Ainclad Arc/SAO was fractured and lacked continuity. Mainly because the original arc skipped a lot of the potential story and focused mainly around Kirito and Asuna near the end of their time together in Ainclad. While the side-stories and back-stories that he wrote after did a decent job filling in some spaces and help you understand Kirito more, they seemed to be jammed into the series awkwardly. Also, story inconsistencies began to creep into the story, like Asuna's initial contact with Kirito. If he can return to his original work, look things over, add new and more interesting story elements, and then rebuild the story while keeping the story as a whole intact and improved upon, I would be tremendously happy. I also wish for him to get full licensed internationally. |
NeverSleep said: Fukiri said: I don't even know how someone had to write this. Seriously? If the author can't decide what is cannon and what isn't, then who will? The fans? Lulz. I don't even... Yeah, he have the rights, but making retcons changing and/or contradicting what have been already said are always a bad thing to do as a writer.. Well, not all retcons can be bad. Trust me, I've been in retcon hell.. COUGH*DCCOMICS*COUGH Too much retcon is honestly a bad habit though. |
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