| This is the very first time I've seen a Love Live series getting a 3rd season... OwO (I really have yet to watch the 2nd season tbh but it's in my priority lists) So far, I have only seen a maximum of 2 seasons per group or generation whatever you call it. Anyway, are you excited? |
| It's not that I dislike this genre but... to add unnecessary fan services to/in/for heroines and ultimately destroys her character and personality; their purity tarnished because of it, is the only thing I hope to not happen to them. For that sole purity is my fan service. |
nevergain said: The casual side of the fanbase seems to by "hyped" but the more hardcore side of the fanbase like the subreddit, East Asians (JP, KR, CN), didn't enjoy season 2's writing. It feels like it's just an excuse to add more cast members to sell, especially since they'll be doing another open auditions for new members. While I agree that maybe the hardcore side of the fanbase likes SS less than the casual side, SS's writing to me is just way better in terms of quality compared to its predecessors. I am by no means calling it flawless. But people that enjoyed the... (oftentimes) senseless shenanigans and direction of previous shows are less likely to enjoy SS - which, imho, has legitimately good pacing and direction for the most part. I've watched all the LL shows since the beginning, so I'd consider myself a hardcore fan. However, I never considered the shows to have good writing until now. It seems those that find SS writing to be good will likely find SIP/Sunshine/Nijigasaki writing poor, and vice versa. side note: adding new members with each season makes complete sense. Finally, a series in LL where the years actually progress and the club actually functions like a club and senpais are actual senpais. SS is about the birth of a school. SIP/Sunshine dealt with the ending of a school, and their clubs/shows had no longevity. It could only last 1 year by necessity, because it started with girls in their last year. I actually think they are trying to change the demographics of LL's fanbase - they are making it more accessible to the "normal"/casual population. Perhaps they're no longer targeting people who just want to see cute girls doing cute things and being excessively moe. Which is a great thing, imo. |
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Fail_Man_X said: iunne said: If "good" writing gets me 8 episodes of "the first years suck, they're holding back their talented senpais" or an entire episode worth of "Kanon is sooooo talented. Too talented for Liella. She should go study abroad...oh whoops, nevermind", I'd much rather see the Aqours working at the beach or the Niji girls playing an ARG. This season had an episode where Ren was addicted to video games, so it COULD have fun. It just chose to be miserable most of the time. While I agree that maybe the hardcore side of the fanbase likes SS less than the casual side, SS's writing to me is just way better in terms of quality compared to its predecessors. I am by no means calling it flawless. But people that enjoyed the... (oftentimes) senseless shenanigans and direction of previous shows are less likely to enjoy SS - which, imho, has legitimately good pacing and direction for the most part. I've watched all the LL shows since the beginning, so I'd consider myself a hardcore fan. However, I never considered the shows to have good writing until now. It seems those that find SS writing to be good will likely find SIP/Sunshine/Nijigasaki writing poor, and vice versa. side note: adding new members with each season makes complete sense. Finally, a series in LL where the years actually progress and the club actually functions like a club and senpais are actual senpais. SS is about the birth of a school. SIP/Sunshine dealt with the ending of a school, and their clubs/shows had no longevity. It could only last 1 year by necessity, because it started with girls in their last year. I actually think they are trying to change the demographics of LL's fanbase - they are making it more accessible to the "normal"/casual population. Perhaps they're no longer targeting people who just want to see cute girls doing cute things and being excessively moe. Which is a great thing, imo. Yes, differences in values as usual. Kanon is our first leader with the actual skills to carry a school idol group (in Muse, Umi/Maki/Eli have clearly better vocal technique than Honoka and Yohane/Mari are much better than Chika). And you're absolutely exaggerating. It was not 8 episodes of "first years suck." Much of the show was focused on the assimilation of the first years into the group, which is completely realistic. It's funny how people irl were already freaking out over adding girls to Liella and demanding the og5 remain untouched, so it's only natural that the first years would feel similarly. The insecurity that comes with "changing" Liella and entering as inexperienced first years - this is what a club goes through every year without exception, and we finally get to see that in LL. In previous schools, the third years were honestly not any more skilled overall than the years below and there was virtually no difference in experience among the "senpais" and "kouhais." However in SS, the senpais are more experienced and have more honed skills. They take all this into consideration while balancing the desire to win. This is a conflict that had to be addressed to realistically justify the first years joining, and it's a scene that is all too common irl. If you don't like it, that's completely fine and I have no problem with it, but to say the plot is bad quality is a different story and requires concrete reasons that can be discussed. Why are people so angry that Kanon has more screen time than the other girls? This is absolutely true, and no different than Honoka and Chika. They are the main characters of the story. Except in SS's case, it actually makes sense. Kanon is vocally the strongest of the 9 (Wien could rival her, but I need to hear more from her first) and collected and mature - these are qualities that set her up for success. It's called Superstar, not Superstars xD No but in all seriousness, I would like it if the other girls had more screen time myself but I don't think the way they distributed it is any worse than SIP/Sunshine. |
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nevergain said: iunne said: Perhaps they're no longer targeting people who just want to see cute girls doing cute things and being excessively moe. Which is a great thing, imo. That's actually what Nijigasaki is... they have the most grounded and sensible cast of characters, which the casual audience can find boring. It's written/directed by a different team from previous entries and Superstar!! Superstar!! still has many over-the-top reaction faces and gimmicks. I disagree hard with Nijigasaki having the most grounded and sensible cast. This is purely from the anime btw, as I don't read the stories in SIFAS. Nijigasaki girls as a whole are largely undeveloped. Most of the girls get one episode before they become a background character again. For example: In S1, Shizuku's episode was extremely disappointing and empty. They wanted to portray her struggle between the two sides of her - which is a good idea and made me excited - but it was so shallow. They never even explained what those two sides actually were and just wrapped it up with a cliche: "they're both me." Not to mention, Setsuna/Nana herself already demonstrates that notion but with actual concrete ideas [idol & student council president/"perfect daughter"]. In S1, Emma didn't even get an episode to herself. Most of it was spent on convincing Karin to join. We don't actually delve deep into Emma as a person at all. In S2, the episode with Ai's childhood friend, Misato, was laughably bad. Where did she come from, why does she matter, and where did she go after the episode? And if you think about it, in the 26 episodes of Niji (S1 & S2), tell me what actually happened plot-wise. Literally, all they did was hold festivals and perform at them (except for in the beginning of S1 where they broke up the club then revived it). That's it. There is no plot. I have no problem with people liking directionless "stories," but I'd like to see explanations for how that's a better story than the ones in SS/Sunshine/SIP. Edit: Forgot to add that Nijigasaki is actually a spin-off series of LL, and not considered part of the "main franchise." To me, it seems like it's just fan-service for the people that play the games. Nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't change the fact that it's bad writing and lacks an actual story. Pretty similar to Magia Record, honestly. Both are animes that were created from mobile games that are spin-offs of a popular franchise. So it makes absolute sense that less care was put into the anime. |
iunneOct 11, 2022 1:50 PM
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| Since the story has not reached a satisfactory ending, it makes sense that there would be a 3rd season, although they might have been able to conclude the story with a movie instead. Maybe they will also make a movie next. Hopefully featuring Sunny Passion. |
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nevergain said: Awesome, then at least we agree Niji has no plot/SoL.iunne said: Edit: Forgot to add that Nijigasaki is actually a spin-off series of LL, and not considered part of the "main franchise." To me, it seems like it's just fan-service for the people that play the games. Nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't change the fact that it's bad writing and lacks an actual story. Pretty similar to Magia Record, honestly. Both are animes that were created from mobile games that are spin-offs of a popular franchise. So it makes absolute sense that less care was put into the anime. I don't want to argue with an essay about how you prefer characters but I guess you'd be surprised to know it has a lot better numbers than Superstar!! Blu-ray sales, ratings in JP sites, a lot more MV views, way more fanarts/doujins, etc... that's kinda embarrassing for a "flagship project" to lose to a "spin-off". Superstar!! just had been out of touch and only been aggressively trying to sell their IRL cast. Also, no plot/SoL > bad plot. If you don't want to have a discussion, then we can end here (but I actually frequent forums to discuss). But just wanted to add, numbers are not the best indication of quality. I was never arguing about which group is more popular overall, nor do I find it particularly relevant to the topic. I could also go into detail about how those numbers actually aren't the best measure of popularity (there are certain groups of people that spend a lot of money, but it doesn't necessarily mean it is liked by a large number of people. However, this is also a digression). |
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| Yeah, surprisingly. Wasn't really into S1, but I think S2 came through for me! Interested to see more of Margarete. |
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Fail_Man_X said: iunne said: I think you got caught up in semantics. You took offense to the word "sucks" then went on to explain that the entire season was about how the first-years aren't as good as the second-years. You're right, it makes sense for the first-years to be behind the second-years, but they aren't really ever assimilated. They have the conversation multiple times and always come to the same conclusion: keep pushing on, they'll catch up, and if they don't, we'd rather lose than exclude them. The entire season is them trying to catch up; even in the last episode, they split off to practice alone. I guess it paid off because they won, but is that result realistic? Margarete beat Liella when it was the original 5 + Kinako. Wien then goes on to beat the reigning champs and favorite Sunny Passion. If we're going for realism, they should have lost again in the Tokyo Tournament. Where is the realism that has a top flight music school is interested in Kanon when she couldn't even get into her own school's music program and lost in the Tokyo Tournament the year before. But she was so impressive in defeat that Margarete was sent to Japan to either win Love Live or recruit Kanon. Where is the equivalency to that? Not to mention that Kanon studying abroad was just abruptly nixed. That is an entire episode and rival character wasted. Yes, differences in values as usual. Kanon is our first leader with the actual skills to carry a school idol group (in Muse, Umi/Maki/Eli have clearly better vocal technique than Honoka and Yohane/Mari are much better than Chika). And you're absolutely exaggerating. It was not 8 episodes of "first years suck." Much of the show was focused on the assimilation of the first years into the group, which is completely realistic. It's funny how people irl were already freaking out over adding girls to Liella and demanding the og5 remain untouched, so it's only natural that the first years would feel similarly. The insecurity that comes with "changing" Liella and entering as inexperienced first years - this is what a club goes through every year without exception, and we finally get to see that in LL. In previous schools, the third years were honestly not any more skilled overall than the years below and there was virtually no difference in experience among the "senpais" and "kouhais." However in SS, the senpais are more experienced and have more honed skills. They take all this into consideration while balancing the desire to win. This is a conflict that had to be addressed to realistically justify the first years joining, and it's a scene that is all too common irl. If you don't like it, that's completely fine and I have no problem with it, but to say the plot is bad quality is a different story and requires concrete reasons that can be discussed. Why are people so angry that Kanon has more screen time than the other girls? This is absolutely true, and no different than Honoka and Chika. They are the main characters of the story. Except in SS's case, it actually makes sense. Kanon is vocally the strongest of the 9 (Wien could rival her, but I need to hear more from her first) and collected and mature - these are qualities that set her up for success. It's called Superstar, not Superstars xD No but in all seriousness, I would like it if the other girls had more screen time myself but I don't think the way they distributed it is any worse than SIP/Sunshine. When used say "good", I was trying to point out the subjectivity of it. It IS just a matter of opinion. I like what I like, good or bad. I prefer my idol shows as CGDCT with music. I didn't care for the second-years > first-years plotline no matter how much sense it made. Drama is fine - episode 10 of Sunshine S1 is my favorite episode in the franchise - but this wasn't fun and there always felt like a rift between the girls. In the episode where Sumire tries to cut out the first-years, they have a meeting at Kanon's cafe. Then the first-years leave and the second-years continue meeting without them. It's realistic, but it goes against the spirit of the show. The whole show is about these 9 girls coming together, and it doesn't feel as if they do. This rift is constantly present - it feels like two separate groups. I also don't care for how much the shows pushes Kanon, as its just another divide. Kanon>second-years>first-years. If that's good (no quotes this time) then whatever. I'd rather have bad Love Live. I'm going to break up my response into parts so hopefully it'll be easier to follow. - I apologize if I misunderstood you, but I took "sucks" to mean "bad" then went on to explain why I disagree. - I disagree with ...always come to the same conclusion: keep pushing on, they'll catch up, and if they don't, we'd rather lose than exclude them The second years (with the exception of Sumire in earlier episodes) are extremely supportive of the first years and don't mind them playing catch-up. After all, we had an episode dedicated to the second years supporting the first years (e.g. Chisato & Shiki dancing, Ren & Mei on the piano). Not a hint of wishing to exclude them for being behind after the initial drama. In the last episode, they did not split up to practice alone at all? You can see Kinako jogging alongside Sumire, Shiki jogging with Mei, and Keke and Chisato working on abdominal training. Unless you're talking about splitting by years? That wouldn't be true either, as Sumire was with Kinako around 14:00. Not to mention, even if they do sometimes practice alone or with someone in the same grade, it isn't necessarily because of exclusion or skill difference. It's personal/voluntary training, and you can do that alone or with people you're closer to or with those who are available or in your proximity. I see no suggestion that the splits in the final ep were due to skill.- Wien eventually losing in an idol competition is realistic. She has a lot of talent in both vocals and dance, but this isn't The Voice or X's Got Talent. It's a competition for idols. We all know Celine Dion or whoever would smoke every K-pop and J-pop idol group combined in terms of vocal skill. But she isn't an idol. As for Wien, if you're going to announce to the world that you think idols are a load of shit, getting cancelled for it is pretty expected. - Kanon didn't get into the music course of her school because she couldn't sing, obviously. But she got over that in S1 and now nothing is holding her back. Liella lost the Tokyo tournament last year, but that's not a direct reflection of vocal skill as mentioned in the point above with Wien. - My least favorite part of S2 was the last 30 seconds. I've said this in other places, but that would be a fine ending of an episode, but not that great for a season. However, 30 seconds is not enough to invalidate everything else, especially when we know that S3 will be a direct continuation. This sort of "closing of a chapter/beginning a new one" at the end of a season is not new in anime. Many shounen anime do the same and it's tolerable albeit not ideal. That's because people understand the story isn't over at all. I prefer my idol shows as CGDCT with music... If that's good (no quotes this time) then whatever. I'd rather have bad Love Live. Like I said, I'm totally ok with this. If CGDCT = good and not CGDCT = bad, then I feel no need to explain my thoughts because we already agree that SIP/Sunshine/Niji are CGDCT and SS is less so. However, my first assumption when people call something "good" or "bad" is to look at it in a more "objective" manner. Please understand that I don't mean it's a fact that one show is better than the other, it's just that the arguments aren't as dependent on one's personal preference. Like even if someone loves CGDCT, they can still recognize that the characters aren't very realistic or there's little plot. It's fine to like different things. Some people prefer more realistic settings. Some people prefer more emotional drama. You really can't have a discussion regarding those preferences, so what I was aiming to do was explain how SS's writing is overall better in terms of standard quality (pacing, character-writing) and why perhaps that makes it more popular with the casual audience who isn't all gung-ho with the "standard" LL idols. I disagree with the statement that Liella feels like two separate groups, but I agree that there is a distinction between the first years and second years and it is realistic, therefore I love it. You also can't say it's not similar in SIP/Sunshine. Girls in the same years tend to hang out together... it's how it is in LL and irl. However, neither group is excluding the other. I'll need a reminder on the context of the topic/episode # for the meeting at Kanon's cafe before I can answer that point specifically. |
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nevergain said: Yes, this is what I've been aiming to explain. I agree with everything there (minus the portion I crossed out, which is based on the fact that there is no plot to drive. So it's just a small nuance).I can't really change people's preference to characters and storytelling. Nijigasaki is more character-driven and gives fair focus between its characters while Superstar!! is heavily plot-driven by its main protagonist. If you liked Superstar!! more, then that's perfectly fine. nevergain said: The link I added there on my previous message just shows how badly this finale (and season 2) was received. More than 50% of the viewers gave the lowest rating while only 18% gave the highest, and it has more than 1:3 dislike ratio on YouTube. I also did not like the last 30 seconds of the episode, but 30 seconds does not invalidate the quality of the whole show. If we want to discuss the last 30 seconds, we can, but that was not the focus of our discussion. Also, do you really want to fight over numbers here? On that one video you linked that goes only over one episode of the thirteen, there are 6.5k votes in total. Now let's take a look at the score of every LL show on MAL. SS S1 and S2 are still rated higher than any other LL listing (besides SIP's movie), and there are way more than 6.5k votes I might add. So if you want to use numbers as the decider for which is "better," SS is the current winner... |
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nevergain said: SS S1 and S2 are still rated higher than any other LL listing (besides SIP's movie), and there are way more than 6.5k votes I might add. So if you want to use numbers as the decider for which is "better," SS is the current winner... Yes, it's what I said on my earlier post. Because MAL is more about the casual global viewers. Heck, I actually think Sunshine!! had the best plot despite it being the lowest rated here. I'm showing stats from the more engaged audience (JP), the ones that actually buys the merch, concerts, etc. And this rating is not just for the finale episode, it just kept dropping and dropping from episode 5. There are a lot of issues with this season, episodes 1-4 were fine for me, I even praised it... the mess started in episode 5, they made Natsumi very unlikable that episode but it gets worse when Kanon suddenly shows up out of nowhere to recruit Natsumi for pretty dumb convenience. Episode 7 was "fun" but that only made Ren a gag character and was over-the-top even for LL standards. Episode 8 where a whole episode wasted with Kanon trying to find a venue for their performance. Episode 9 was saved by Sumire and Keke's drama but SunnyPa getting shafted in favor of a new rival, so Liella! couldn't get their revenge match. And yes, the last 2 episodes of build-up for Kanon to go overseas only for it to be canceled the last minute. It was a frustrating experience for some fans. Their Love Live! winning journey was also very underwhelming compared to Sunshine. Sunshine had a lot more build-up and emotional roller-coaster and it was a very satisfying win. The Love Live! "winning" songs this season are also underwhelming and MV views are pretty low. None of them reached 1M yet while Nijigasaki S2 had 1M views on some of their insert MVs in just 2-3 weeks and 1 insert song already reached 3M views, already higher than the best song released by Liella! in S1. I'm starting to get confused. Correct me if any of these are wrong. 1) We agree that Liella is no longer targeting numbers/the hardcore LL fans. Which I also mentioned in my first reply to yours: iunne said: So all this talk about not appealing to the "old" fans of LL is exactly right and expected.I actually think they are trying to change the demographics of LL's fanbase - they are making it more accessible to the "normal"/casual population. Perhaps they're no longer targeting people who just want to see cute girls doing cute things and being excessively moe. Which is a great thing, imo. 2) We agree that Niji has no plot/SoL. 3) What we disagree on is SS's plot being bad. I'm going to go over a few things that you said. Their Love Live! winning journey was also very underwhelming compared to Sunshine. Sunshine had a lot more build-up and emotional roller-coaster and it was a very satisfying win. Probably agree, because Sunshine and SIP had 2 seasons dedicated to one year for LL. SS imo is not trying to do the same thing. They are placing less importance on the win (because they're going to win again in S3, therefore becoming the first group to win LL twice is my prediction), and more on the growth of Liella as a group. The achievement isn't what's important. SS is more focused on the journey and development. Which checks out because it's being aired on NHK Educational TV, which is targeted at children.I agree that Kanon did not need to be in Hokkaido in that one episode. Was unnecessary (but doesn't destroy the pacing and direction of the season as a whole). SunnyPa getting shafted in favor of a new rival, so Liella! couldn't get their revenge match. This was great imo. It completely subverted expectations. Muse competed against A-RISE their whole journey. Aqours had only one rival, Saint Snow, that turned out not to be a rival because they got axed early on. SS introduced a behemoth rival (SunnyPa stomped our girls) S1, then put things into perspective by having someone else stomp the stompers. It took the LL competition out of this 1v1 bubble.I think Ren is the worst character in SS. I agree, she's more of a gag character and could be developed a lot better. Natsumi was annoying in her introductory episode, but she grew to be a very nice addition to Liella. Having someone who cares about publicity, attention and media really adds to the realism of the cast imo, instead of it just being a group purely fueled on idealism and pretty feelings. By no means did I ever claim SS to be flawless, but in terms of writing it does much, much better than the other schools. I could definitely go into detail as to why I think SIP and Sunshine's writing is inferior, but I think that would be a long message and I would rather move our convo to DMs for that. Send me a message if you want |
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| Super prestigious school: Kanon, you're really talented, please come to our school! Kanon: No thanks, I want to be with my friends! Chisato: You should go! Kanon: I should go! I changed my mind, super prestigious school, here I come! Super prestigious school: actually, the letter of invitation was a mistake. sorry～ (ρω< )⌒☆ Kanon: What - the end - i guess that's one way of ending a season. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
Fail_Man_X said: Let me start by saying that I appreciate the dialogue. You present your points without condescension or hostility. I hope you feel the same way, and I apologize if I've come across as excessively combative. In the last episode, 4:40 in, after Ren goes to meet with Chisato, the 4 first-years are at a bench discussing the situation. This is them taking a break from extra training because they have to get as close to the second-years as possible.Yes, they're not as good as the second-years. Everyone repeats that over and over throughout the season. I wish they wouldn't keep harping on that point, but it's just a personal gripe. Watching the scene again, Natsumi wonders how the second-years decided ended up, and Mei said it's not their place to say anything. I'm not sure if they are saying that it's Kanon's decision, but as members of Liella, they shouldn't have any less say than the second-years, as it affects them too. It ties back into my other example. In episode 9, about 8 minutes in, after celebrating making it to the Tokyo Tournament and finding out that Sunny Pas lost to Margarete, Chisato calls a second-years only meeting to express concerns over how the first-years are still not caught up. They say they don't want to worry the first-years...before Sumire suggests the first-years not participate in the Tokyo Tournament, and Keke's situation is revealed. To say nothing of the first-year-only training camp they have in Hokkaido in episode 6. I'm not saying the second-years are malicious (except Sumire) towards the first-years; they're written as nice senpais who just want to have fun in club with their kouhais (and win, even though the kouhais are kind of holding them back). It's the first-years who are written with this everlasting inferiority complex (though, is it a complex if they ARE inferior?) - Margarete, at the point she lost in the Tokyo Tournament, had already beaten both Liella and Sunny Pas. They try to excuse it by saying Sunny Pas let their guard down (despite not trying any less), and Liella has 3 more rookie members, so it's essentially a different team. The best answer would be that she got herself cancelled - no way was she winning after she said the stuff she did - but why allow her to win at all? - I'm not arguing against Kanon's talent, I'm arguing against her circumstance. Why does Margarete have to win Love Live to get into the school? Like you said, it's not a singing competition, it's an idol competition. Conversely, why does that not apply to Kanon? Not to mention they knew about Kanon coming into the season despite her lack of performances or results. How dialed in to the idol scene are they? - The last 30 seconds renders everything from midway through episode 11 to the halfway point of episode 12 moot. I was already not a fan of the skill-gap drama. Now there is an entire episode of pointless drama. Personally, I dropped my score from a 7 to a 6. Not ruined, per se, but you can't waste an entire episode like that. Even a last minute "I love Liella too much to go" would have been preferable, and I'm not sure if there is an explanation that could be satisfactory next season. I really appreciate your first line. I enjoy conversations with varying opinions, so long as they don't get excessively emotional or hostile. I almost never try to personally attack someone for holding an opinion, but just question the arguments used to support an opinion. It can be hard to find people that don't freak out at the first hint of disagreement, so honestly I'm really grateful that you don't think/realized I'm not trying to attack you. I don't really know if you came off as excessively combative at first, but even if you did: 1) it's nbd because it's the natural first response - there are a lot of trolls on the internet, and 2) you actually voicing your appreciation of the conversation/the current state is what actually matters. Anyway moving on. The meeting held after Wien beats SunnyPa is just the initial drama extended, so it would be fair to say that it's somewhat cyclical from a writing perspective. While the first years do play catch-up most of the season, it's not that bad imo (as someone who places realism high up on my likes) because it's not like you can expect the first years to catch up within one month. Perhaps waiting until winter (the training camp) is too long, but I don't think it's that excessive. Especially since I have a strong feeling that in S3, the "first years" will have caught up with the "second years" and overcome their (based?) inferiority complex. In a way, perhaps S2 -> S3 will demonstrate the growth of the new 4 like how S1 -> S2 showcased how far the first 5 had come. But instead of repeating this gap-in-skill problem with the new first years in S3, we'll probably at least have Wien, who is clearly skilled enough, so they can avoid repeating a problem that realistically should come up every year. I do see what you mean about the first years having just as much say in the matter of Kanon's leaving as the others, but I think them leaving the second years on their own is understandable and not new to LL. In the end, Kanon's known the other girls longer and Chisato even more so. When there are conflicts in SIP/Sunshine, it's almost always the girls' peers that slap sense into them (e.g. Umi & Honoka, Mari & Kanan) or prevent them from flying away lol. - I've actually had quite a few convos with people who legitimately think Wien should've beat Liella in the Tokyo tournament due to her being more skilled. I agree that Wien as an individual is probably more well-rounded/talented than any one girl in Liella (although I don't really know how proficient of a dancer Kanon is, but she's not on Keke's level at least lol), which is probably what got Wien so far. So I think there are 2 believable reasons for why Wien lost: 1) she really did get herself cancelled - she hadn't made those remarks prior to her previous performances, and 2) the contrast between the two songs really reminded everyone what being an idol means. It's actually pretty cool looking at their lyrics. In Wien's song, she sings that she wants to shine for the whole world to see. In Liella's song, the lyrics are about shining/lighting the path for each other. They lyrics go: "Even if there are nights where we can't see a thing... that sparkle should still get through." Frankly, Sing! Shine! Smile! is not the type of music I'd listen to in my free time, but hearing it directly after Wien's convinced me that Liella would win, because it was a solid demonstration of the difference in mindsets. Actual talent vs. popularity is a common discrepancy in the real world. Some mediocre actors/singers/etc. are popular, and some may find it "unfair" while others consider it the name of the game. - This is also speculative, but I think the school set up the condition for Wien because they know she's too cocky/reliant on her technical skills. They might've known she'd eventually get beat by girls who are technically less skilled than her, and that would make Wien realize that technical skill isn't everything. I personally feel Kanon might've had enough performances of her singing in year 1/1.5 to show her consistency and technique. All it takes is for one person in Vienna to take notice of Kanon, then bring her up in a meeting/discussion. At least, I know that's how K-pop idols are often scouted. - I really wish they hadn't ended on those last 30 seconds. I think they can turn the decision into a believable one (e.g. the school becomes more interested in the school idol scene, and wants to see what heights Kanon & Wien can take it), but I don't want to wait a whole year for that justification. I don't mind the twist in itself (it reminds me of one of my favorite scenes in Avengers: Infinity War), but the placement was just bad. Edit: This post got way too freakin fat so I removed our earlier posts |
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Lanzhu alone is better than the entire Liella. |
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iunne said: Sunshine and SIP had 2 seasons dedicated to one year for LL. SS imo is not trying to do the same thing. They are placing less importance on the win (because they're going to win again in S3, therefore becoming the first group to win LL twice is my prediction), and more on the growth of Liella as a group. The achievement isn't what's important. SS is more focused on the journey and development. I think the difference here is that in both SIP and Sunshine, winning the tournament was a means to an end. Winning per see wasn't important. The girls wanted to, above all else, make people become interested in attending their otherwise unremarkable school. If they can attract enough people, they could prevent the school from having to close. This is also why the final live in Sunshine was meaningful - the girls experienced severeal setbacks and failures before finally emerging successful. From being a school idol group nobody wanted to cast a vote for to becoming number one in the nation. It's ultimately a tale of perseverance. That hard work pays off in the end. This message of perseverance is also reflected in the opening theme of the second season, and is arguably one of the most inspiring songs in the franchise as a whole. As for growth, the girls have grown together as a result of spending their time together as Aquors. While Chika is the "leader", the series makes it clear that each and every girl in the group are just as important for the group as a whole, if not more so. This point is emphasized in the movie. I can't say the same thing with Liella. As much as I like the other girls, it is clear that Kanon is by far the most important girl in the group, and is treated as such throughout the series, all the way to the end. i love all the songs from Nijigasaki, and Diver Diva may be my favorite duo from Love Live. Lanzhu solo is really catchy, but i like Mia's more. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
| Not really super hyped as I do prefer µ's but I'll take a Third season. More Love Live! is always a good thing for me. |
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DreamingBeats said: iunne said: Sunshine and SIP had 2 seasons dedicated to one year for LL. SS imo is not trying to do the same thing. They are placing less importance on the win (because they're going to win again in S3, therefore becoming the first group to win LL twice is my prediction), and more on the growth of Liella as a group. The achievement isn't what's important. SS is more focused on the journey and development. I think the difference here is that in both SIP and Sunshine, winning the tournament was a means to an end. Winning per see wasn't important. The girls wanted to, above all else, make people become interested in attending their otherwise unremarkable school. If they can attract enough people, they could prevent the school from having to close. This is also why the final live in Sunshine was meaningful - the girls experienced severeal setbacks and failures before finally emerging successful. From being a school idol group nobody wanted to cast a vote for to becoming number one in the nation. It's ultimately a tale of perseverance. That hard work pays off in the end. This message of perseverance is also reflected in the opening theme of the second season, and is arguably one of the most inspiring songs in the franchise as a whole. As for growth, the girls have grown together as a result of spending their time together as Aquors. While Chika is the "leader", the series makes it clear that each and every girl in the group are just as important for the group as a whole, if not more so. This point is emphasized in the movie. I can't say the same thing with Liella. As much as I like the other girls, it is clear that Kanon is by far the most important girl in the group, and is treated as such throughout the series, all the way to the end. I agree with the first paragraph. Well-stated. The competition means completely different things in SIP/Sunshine than SS. As for the second paragraph, I agree that Kanon is by far the girl they focus on the most, and that's how it's supposed to be. The screen time for the other girls in SIP/Sunshine is not much fairer. However, I don't agree that that makes the other girls less important to the group (e.g. Maki is also the best singer and the composer of Muse, but it's not like the group is nothing without her either). Kanon is the strongest singer of the 9, and I think it's easy to argue she does most of the carrying from a canonical standpoint (same as Maki, perhaps). This is not bad from a writing perspective. The thing with Honoka and Chika is that the shows are more about "cute girls doing cute things" and it's honestly not that important that the leaders aren't actually skilled (and they kinda aren't compared with their members). SS pays way more attention on actual skill, which can be seen in Kanon, Wien, and the problems that come with catching up the first years who are a whole year's worth of experience and practice behind the second years. Kanon, who is actually skilled, is natural choice as the main character. It's normal. Think about other anime shows. The main characters of most anime shows have some sort of "superpower" or are skilled at something (Spy x Family, Railgun, Sakurasou, AC, Fate/zero). SS is overall more realistic and grounded, while its predecessors are not so focused on building realistic characters or settings. The predecessors care less about making things believable - it's more like K-On's situation (where Yui is.. not so talented) but the main difference is K-On acknowledges this canonically and the girls in K-On don't win any big competitions or anything. In LL SIP/Sunshine, they exist in a more fairytale like setting where it doesn't matter at all. If you prefer LL to be more of SIP/Sunshine's vibe, there's nothing wrong with that. But that doesn't mean their writing is better or SS's writing is worse. |
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nevergain said: I'm actually kinda indifferent with Superstar!!'s S2 finale, my previous post was pretty much what the main complaints from the fans are. And the reason I never really got into Superstar is it's too commercialized with their partnership with NHK and a talent agency that manages Liella's open audition talents. There's too much backing that it feels artificial, which is opposite to Nijigasaki that grew/expanded more organically when they were mostly ignored for being a "spin-off" during Sunshine!!'s era. Yeah let's agree to disagree. I think SS's backing is what makes it the most realistic, grounded show in the LL franchise so far. They don't want to appeal as much to the niche pool of anime viewers or gamers (i.e. otakus). They're trying to extend their audience into the more "normal" side of the population, which is why NHK Education TV probably even backs them/airs them. Basically, make it a show that is not so cringe to the average person - a show most parents would let their kids watch. |
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| [quote=nevergain message=67688793] iunne said: I don't want to argue with an essay about how you prefer characters written but I guess you'd be surprised to know it has a lot better numbers than Superstar!! Blu-ray sales, ratings in JP sites, a lot more MV views, way more fanarts/doujins, etc. It's kinda embarrassing for a "flagship project" to lose to what you call just a "spin-off". Superstar!! just had been out of touch with the fanbase and been aggressively trying to sell its IRL cast. yeah. Niji sales on the first week are very high.  1. Lycoris Recoil 2. Love Live! Nijigasaki Gakuen School Idol Doukoukai 2nd Season 3. Sono Bisque Doll wa Koi wo Suru 4. Princess Connect! Re:Dive Season 2 ____________ Anyway, I like both Niji and Superstar. purchased a lot of merchandise from both of them. glad Superstar is gonna have another season. :) |
Liddo-kunOct 13, 2022 11:53 AM
| @Liddo-kun Just wanted to let you know you quoted the wrong person. Those weren't my words xD |
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| @iunne oh, sorry about that. I was quoting the other person. was a bit tired playing Genshin yesterday, did not notice that you were the one that got quoted. |
| They kind of need a third season with how they handled everything in the second one. I hope the writing is not horrible this time, but Love Live writing has always been subpar at best so whatever. Maybe be a bit more ambitious with the songs at least |
iunne said: nevergain said: The casual side of the fanbase seems to by "hyped" but the more hardcore side of the fanbase like the subreddit, East Asians (JP, KR, CN), didn't enjoy season 2's writing. It feels like it's just an excuse to add more cast members to sell, especially since they'll be doing another open auditions for new members. While I agree that maybe the hardcore side of the fanbase likes SS less than the casual side, SS's writing to me is just way better in terms of quality compared to its predecessors. I am by no means calling it flawless. But people that enjoyed the... (oftentimes) senseless shenanigans and direction of previous shows are less likely to enjoy SS - which, imho, has legitimately good pacing and direction for the most part. I've watched all the LL shows since the beginning, so I'd consider myself a hardcore fan. However, I never considered the shows to have good writing until now. It seems those that find SS writing to be good will likely find SIP/Sunshine/Nijigasaki writing poor, and vice versa. side note: adding new members with each season makes complete sense. Finally, a series in LL where the years actually progress and the club actually functions like a club and senpais are actual senpais. SS is about the birth of a school. SIP/Sunshine dealt with the ending of a school, and their clubs/shows had no longevity. It could only last 1 year by necessity, because it started with girls in their last year. I actually think they are trying to change the demographics of LL's fanbase - they are making it more accessible to the "normal"/casual population. Perhaps they're no longer targeting people who just want to see cute girls doing cute things and being excessively moe. Which is a great thing, imo. I´m totally agree with you, I'm a fan since the first season (kotori best girl hehe), In fact, I consider myself a hardcorel fan. I am of the opinion that sunshine gave a slump since it was a copy paste of muse. Instead, I think this new season brings freshness to the franchise with new themes. |
| Liella will have two new members! |
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