| After watching Death Note back in 2007, I thought the series' success would bring a less explored area of anime into the limelight with villainous protagonists. Light's narcissistic and sadistic personality was just so enjoyable to watch for so many people. But after waiting for the better part of a decade, not a single series that I've seen has chosen a similar type of protagonist. The closest series to Death Note as far as the protagonist's nature is concerned is Code Geass, and that was released in the SAME SEASON back in 2006. With that said, Lelouch isn't even villainous, despite being the closest anime protagonist I've seen to Light. I've seen a few series released after 2006 with protagonists sharing characteristics with Lelouch, but they weren't villains. Am I just not looking in the right places or are creators intentionally avoiding evil protagonists? I can't see a financial reason for producers not to pick up stories with these types of characters, it's been shown in the past to be an extremely successful approach. Does Japan have moral concerns with this type of series? Is it simply too difficult to pull off well? Once again if there are other good series with this type of lead character that have been slipping under my radar, I would really appreciate recommendations (and if that's the case, I'll be a little bit embarrassed about posting this!). But I do want to stress that I'm only curious about real villains, not the pseudo-bad guys who simply have an edgy guise. That trick is used constantly. Feel free to not recommend anything, that isn't the primary purpose of this post anyways. |
ghoulcustomerJan 27, 2015 7:17 PM
 |
| “A lesson without pain is meaningless. That's because no one can gain without sacrificing something. But by enduring that pain and overcoming it, he shall obtain a powerful, unmatched heart. A fullmetal heart.” -Hiromu Arakawa Fullmetal Alchemist, Vol. 25 |
htdepaula said: While I would argue that Light is the protagonist of the anime, I can understand that a lot of people may not enjoy his personality. Having a villain as a main character is going to be somewhat controversial. I actually respect your position, because to me it shows that your strong moral values do not allow you to sympathize with the villain. Nonetheless, many others with a looser sense of morality did enjoy watching the show from the villain's perspective. To me, what made Death Note one of the greatest anime of all time was its beautiful execution in developing a truly bad person as a main character. Even in the "Light VS. L" thread, the community is split almost 50/50, indicating that around half of the immense MAL Death Note fanbase actually preferred Light. Obviously that thread isn't a very solid basis for that assumption, but I think a significant part of Death Note's incredible success was due to the villain main character. Would you agree or disagree with that? I appreciate the suggestion! I've seen several episodes of Psycho-Pass but Shougo wasn't a main character during that period. I noticed that he's labeled as a main character on the MAL page, so it would be interesting to see him play a significant role as the show goes on. I would be especially interested to see some internal monologue from him to show his side of things. I'll probably pick the series back up, thanks! |
ghoulcustomerJan 28, 2015 8:47 AM
| |
Hiei3x said: Let's say the truth here: L is boring and thinks he knows it all. "oh look at me i'm the boss". Near defeating Light is pathetic, he is just a boring kid. Light is the true hero of the show, the villain are Mello, Near and L. The world is a better place with Light. Now with Near the brat, the world turns back to chaos. You happy? I personally enjoyed both Light and L as characters. They both feel significantly less bland and formulaic than the characters I've seen in almost every series since. Not to insult htdepaula, but I find Zankyou no Terror to be a perfect example of a series that rehashes the same formula that's used so often in order to make boring characters with a lot of false depth. It's as if the same couple of protagonists appear in every anime wearing different clothes and using different voice actors. You know you have an actually interesting character if you can really resonate with them without knowing about a tragic back-story or something that, like I mentioned before, adds completely false depth. Ginko, Tenma, Light, and L are all great examples of this. For the majority of Death Note, you don't know anything about L's past other than that he's a renowned detective, but you can still feel his character. They didn't have to go off on a tangent with a flashback to some sob story from his past in order to explain why he acts the way he acts. Everything he does is so believable because of the wonderful monologues and interactions he has. At least, that was how I felt about it. But that's a topic for a different discussion; What I want to know is why evil protagonists aren't being made! Is it possible that creators are worried about the social consequences of showing characters like that in a positive light? I think this is a question that should have been posed long ago (maybe it has been, but I couldn't find answers online), because the total absence of this entire genre is completely bizarre. Especially if you consider the incredible success of both Code Geass and Death Note. What happened? |
ghoulcustomerJan 28, 2015 6:59 PM
| |
ghoulcustomer said: I think a significant part of Death Note's incredible success was due to the villain main character. Would you agree or disagree with that? I 100% agree |
| “A lesson without pain is meaningless. That's because no one can gain without sacrificing something. But by enduring that pain and overcoming it, he shall obtain a powerful, unmatched heart. A fullmetal heart.” -Hiromu Arakawa Fullmetal Alchemist, Vol. 25 |
htdepaula said: ghoulcustomer said: I think a significant part of Death Note's incredible success was due to the villain main character. Would you agree or disagree with that? I 100% agree So the question then is, why aren't there more shows like this?? Do you have any ideas? |
| |
ghoulcustomer said: What I want to know is why evil protagonists aren't being made! Is it possible that creators are worried about the social consequences of putting characters like that in a positive light? I wouldn't be surprised. Ppl clearly doesn't know how to recycle.ppl sees him as a hero even though he was a serial killer -Kira killed 12 Americans including Raye Penber for no reason. -He also killed Raye Penber's fiance ( he had to hold himself from laughing out loud as he saw her walk away to hang herself (disgusting)). (Naomi Misora) -He called his father a fool and laughed at him and his death even after everything his father did for him -He almost killed his own sister because of the book and even so she suffered from Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) -He made that famous girl burn herself alive. (Kiyomi) -He was the cause of the blond's girl death because he had made her cut her life in half twice and erased her memories to save his own skin. -He was the cause of L's death and Rem's. -He was threatening ppl for fun and to feel powerful -He Killed Aiber and Wedy, again for no reason -He is the reason Higuchi, Namikawa and the rest of the Yotsuba group dies -and the list goes on..he did not only kill evil people but innocent people too. L saw that Kira was becoming psycho after Lind L. Tailor's death and I saw that too, It amazes me to know and see that people didnt. like Rem said "Humans are truly... disgusting creatures" |
htdepaulaJan 28, 2015 7:12 PM
| “A lesson without pain is meaningless. That's because no one can gain without sacrificing something. But by enduring that pain and overcoming it, he shall obtain a powerful, unmatched heart. A fullmetal heart.” -Hiromu Arakawa Fullmetal Alchemist, Vol. 25 |
htdepaula said: ghoulcustomer said: What I want to know is why evil protagonists aren't being made! Is it possible that creators are worried about the social consequences of putting characters like that in a positive light? I wouldn't be surprised. Ppl clearly doesn't know how to recycle.ppl sees him as a hero even though he was a serial killer -Kira killed 12 Americans including Raye Penber for no reason. -He also killed Raye Penber's fiance ( he had to hold himself from laughing out loud as he saw her walk away to hang herself (disgusting)). (Naomi Misora) -He called his father a fool and laughed at him and his death even after everything his father did for him -He almost killed his own sister because of the book and even so she suffered from Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) -He made that famous girl burn herself alive. (Kiyomi) -He was the cause of the blond's girl death because he had made her cut her life in half twice and erased her memories to save his own skin. -He was the cause of L's death and Rem's. -He was threatening ppl for fun and to feel powerful -He Killed Aiber and Wedy, again for no reason -He is the reason Higuchi, Namikawa and the rest of the Yotsuba group dies -and the list goes on..he did not only kill evil people but innocent people too. L saw that Kira was becoming psycho after Lind L. Tailor's death and I saw that too, It amazes me to know and see that people didnt. like Rem said "Humans are truly... disgusting creatures" I'm not arguing with you there, I agree and have agreed from the beginning that Light is absolutely vile. Although my opinion differs from yours in that I think Light was as depraved in the first episode as he was in the last. I don't see any progression of insanity. But in any case, it's that twisted personality of his that I adore so much. I can't help it! I do find it strange that people actually see Light as a hero, nothing about him is heroic. I am glad though that you brought up the scene with Misora Naomi, that's one of my favorite parts of the series as it is one of those points where you REALLY get a taste of Light's sadistic nature. To him, the sight of his victim's reaction after letting them know that he was Kira all along was a moment to savor. It was perverse, and it truly was a treat for me to watch. |
ghoulcustomerJan 28, 2015 9:40 PM
| |
ghoulcustomer said: htdepaula said: I wouldn't be surprised. Ppl clearly doesn't know how to recycle.ppl sees him as a hero even though he was a serial killer -Kira killed 12 Americans including Raye Penber for no reason. -He also killed Raye Penber's fiance ( he had to hold himself from laughing out loud as he saw her walk away to hang herself (disgusting)). (Naomi Misora) -He called his father a fool and laughed at him and his death even after everything his father did for him -He almost killed his own sister because of the book and even so she suffered from Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) -He made that famous girl burn herself alive. (Kiyomi) -He was the cause of the blond's girl death because he had made her cut her life in half twice and erased her memories to save his own skin. -He was the cause of L's death and Rem's. -He was threatening ppl for fun and to feel powerful -He Killed Aiber and Wedy, again for no reason -He is the reason Higuchi, Namikawa and the rest of the Yotsuba group dies -and the list goes on..he did not only kill evil people but innocent people too. L saw that Kira was becoming psycho after Lind L. Tailor's death and I saw that too, It amazes me to know and see that people didnt. like Rem said "Humans are truly... disgusting creatures" I'm not arguing with you there, I agree and have agreed from the beginning that Light is absolutely vile. Although my opinion differs from yours in that I think Light was as depraved in the first episode as he was in the last. I don't see any progression of insanity. But in any case, it's that twisted personality of his that I adore so much. I can't help it! I do find it strange that people actually see Light as a hero, nothing about him is heroic. I am glad though that you brought up the scene with Misora Naomi, that's one of my favorite parts of the series as it is one of those points where you REALLY get a taste of Light's sadistic nature. To him, the sight of his victim's reaction after letting them know that he was Kira all along was a moment to savor. It was perverse, and it truly was a treat for me to watch. no I know I'm just saying cuz Hiei3x said that he is a hero and he is not. But youre right, he was so well written and his lines were amazing, everything that he would say or think made me speechless of how brilliant he was. Some times I would be like "oh youre so screwed! LMAO" and he would prove me otherwise, there are no words to explain how awesome the guy who wrote Death Note made him. Light without the death note was dangerous because of how super smart he was and with he was like....I got no words....he was just amazing...or Kira i guess lol the name that came from the word "Killer". OR GOD as he called himself lol |
| “A lesson without pain is meaningless. That's because no one can gain without sacrificing something. But by enduring that pain and overcoming it, he shall obtain a powerful, unmatched heart. A fullmetal heart.” -Hiromu Arakawa Fullmetal Alchemist, Vol. 25 |
| What about this guy? :P |
Clockwerk93 said: What about this guy? :P Makoto Itou, of course! How could I forget him? He's definitely a villain as well, though unfortuantely School Days wasn't written or developed very well. But one major difference between School Days and Death Note/Code Geass is that in School Days the protagonist is intentionally created to be a total joke for the audience to laugh at. The creators are making fun of the villain and trying to express that his morality is wrong. Whereas with Death Note, no such bias exists. This makes Light a much more human character. Itou, Griffith, and Alucard (I think he's a bit morally ambiguous) are certainly characters that are a part of the conversation, but the series' that these characters are from do not attack from the same angle as Death Note. On top of that, they're all old shows! WHAT HAPPENED?? |
ghoulcustomerJan 29, 2015 11:02 AM
| |
| I can't believe nobody corrected this. Light is the protagonist of the story, this is not debatable, that is a mere fact. Protagonist and villain are not mutually exclusive terms. And protagonist is not a synonyms with hero. A villain can be the protagonist and the hero can be the antagonist if the author wishes to. Light is a villain but to be more accurate he is an anti villain. ' a villain with heroic goals, personality traits, and/or virtues. Their desired ends are mostly good, but their means of getting there are evil. Alternatively, their desired ends are evil, but they are far more ethical or moral than most villains and they thus use fairly benign means to achieve it, and can be rather heroic on occasion.'' |
 |
tsudecimo said: I can't believe nobody corrected this. Light is the protagonist of the story, this is not debatable, that is a mere fact. Protagonist and villain are not mutually exclusive terms. And protagonist is not a synonyms with hero. A villain can be the protagonist and the hero can be the antagonist if the author wishes to. Light is a villain but to be more accurate he is an anti villain. ' a villain with heroic goals, personality traits, and/or virtues. Their desired ends are mostly good, but their means of getting there are evil. Alternatively, their desired ends are evil, but they are far more ethical or moral than most villains and they thus use fairly benign means to achieve it, and can be rather heroic on occasion.'' Yes I understood that, but I decided not to bother veering off in that direction because I wanted to stay on topic rather than discuss semantics. Ok, Light is an anti villain. Why do you think that the anime industry is avoiding the use of this type of protagonist, despite past success? And if you think this is not the case, which series' do you think used a similar approach with their main character since 2006? |
| |
| Well Death note is a manga not an anime. There are more villain protagonists in manga from what I know. Example: http://myanimelist.net/manga.php?id=727 |
|
tsudecimo said: Well Death note is a manga not an anime. There are more villain protagonists in manga from what I know. Example: http://myanimelist.net/manga.php?id=727 So why do you think more of those manga aren't receiving anime adaptations? Is it because the manga with villain leads are simply not good enough to be adapted, with Death Note being the exception? Or is there another reason? |
| |
| There are indeed not many anti-hero's. The only one I can think of are Light and Lelouch. |
Psycaloria said: True.. although in the end, Lelouch kinda "redeem" himself by ordering suzaku to kill him while in DN Light stay as a "villain" even until the end..There are indeed not many anti-hero's. The only one I can think of are Light and Lelouch. |
Reality is the lifeblood that makes a work pulse with energy. Reality itself is entertainment  |
| Bumping my old thread, since I think it's still a question today. Anyone have ideas about this? |
| |
ghoulcustomer said: your friend made a more updated thread on this question in the recommendation sectionBumping my old thread, since I think it's still a question today. Anyone have ideas about this? https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1609919 |
 |
| Wow, he posted that only a few days ago. Glad to see that my thread had some lasting interest. |
| |
More topics from this board
» Opinions on Donald Trump's cameo?Kafzeth - Yesterday |
21 |
by Owlblocks
»»
19 minutes ago |
|
Poll: » Death Note Episode 31 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Kayrhandros - May 17, 2007 |
118 |
by Trebor367
»»
9 hours ago |
|
» Death Note Episode 13 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Xinil - Jan 13, 2007 |
130 |
by Heayven
»»
Today, 4:35 AM |
|
Poll: » Death Note Episode 37 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Boursk - Jun 27, 2007 |
920 |
by DarkVoyagerx
»»
Yesterday, 3:36 PM |
|
» Light's "innocent" voice is so fucking funnyVanVeleca - May 22 |
39 |
by VanVeleca
»»
Yesterday, 12:46 PM |