| I'm trying to research this topic and find out what the legitimate complaints about the arc are and whether the complaints only come from the light novel readers or also from anime only viewers. I know that the arc is potentially plagued with technical issues, character issues and chronological issues. I'd rather people focus on the former two types of issues as it is fairly pointless to talk about chronological issues for an anime which never cared about them in the first place; just accept that they're there and move on as there are clearly bigger problems to talk about. Please be civil and construct your arguments without flaming or swearing; this is not a thread for venting your frustration with the arc. At the same time, this is not a thread which debates whether or not the issues are issues at all; this is just a thread for constructive criticism. Tell me if your read the source material or not. Tell me why the issues that you have with the arc are issues in the first place and why they lead you to not enjoying this arc. Which moment in the arc did you go from "not particularly caring too much about it" to "disliking it" or to "hating it" Which moment in which episode did the arc make its biggest"mistake" (aside from the last episode)? Specifically, which part in the arc defines its biggest problem? Lastly, given all of the complaints you had with the arc, what was the worst moment in the arc?;what was the best? Try and set out your arguments properly and please remember to be civil. |
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| I'm one of those people who don't care about the Silent Party arc rather than downright hate it, but I suppose I can still offer some criticism. I'm too lazy to address all of your points and talk about things super critically, but I hope this will help you with your research. For your information, I began reading the Index LNs a few episodes into Silent Party, and the Railgun manga after this season ended. The last episode was a visual fanfare, but did little for the story. One thing I like about the Raildex series is that violence doesn't exist for its own sake. Each clash of powers represents a clash of ideals. Silent Party's conflict and final battle, however, is so poor so as to be a joke, not to mention already done in the series; the Level Upper arc is all about power inequality in Academy City. At least the writers were aware of it, since they added in Kihara Gensei laughing off STUDY's scheme. Really, for a shounen series, the villains in this arc are bad. I mean, as a prior anime-original viewer, I didn't sympathize with Accelerator until I read volume 5 of the Index LNs, but at least he is a formidable force. As for the part where they started jumping the shark, I guess it was when they started addressing the issue of this being the "darkness of AC." I laughed when Misaka exclaimed, "She's going to die without lollipops" and sighed when Heaven Canceler asked her if she was willing to face the darkness. I can deal with Telestina being part of the darkness, but not this. It's just insulting to the series as a whole. The Level Upper arc, while not highly acclaimed, still addresses a darker part of AC. I think having a ragtag group doing cruel experiments that the higher-ups don't even care about has a lesser impact than a group doing cruel experiments that the higher-ups have approved. And this isn't an impression that comes with reading the LNs and such; there's enough content in the Railgun anime that outweighs this arc in dark matter. I wouldn't have minded had they not dwelled on this "darkness" point so much. I also don't like these filler arcs (Big Spider, Poltergeist, Silent Party) because they ruin the consistent narrative thread found in the manga. As an anime-only viewer, I was wondering why the two seasons didn't connect with each other. Yet they did, but only after reading the manga, which I read because I couldn't wait to see the dark side of the Daihasei Festival. You would wonder why Kazuma Kamachi would choose to skip all the way to the Daihasei Festival instead of fleshing out events from Index LNs volumes 4-8. That led me to worry that there would be some sort of inconsistent gap between the arcs, but there aren't. In fact, in the D-Festival arc, I found throwbacks to the Level Upper arc (Misaki mentioning that she taught Kiyama how to manipulate brainwaves)! The only complaint I have about the manga is that it is slowly becoming harder to read as a stand-alone series. As for characters, I don't have much of a problem with that. However, there is one part that bugs me, and it involves a spoiler from Index LN volume 16. In Silent Party, Misaka asks Misaki to remove people's memories of the incident, What are the good things about this arc? Well, I like the effort they put in it. They brought back characters we thought we would never see again, like Shinobu and Telestina, although the latter was underused. Actually, we did expect to see Shinobu again, since Kazuma Kamachi likes bringing back old characters (unfortunately not the case for Kiyama Harumi). Shinobu doesn't reappear in D-Festival, so I guess adding this arc gave her whereabouts some closure. Yet I also feel like the author had some plans to bring her back one day before this was created. Anyways, I like the fact that the studio is trying to make Railgun their own product, with things like connecting the "you can't escape the darkness of AC" theme into this arc, rather than just a simple adaptation of the source material. If only "their own product" was better written. I mean, seriously, STUDY being the darkness makes me want to laugh. I also like the friendship. Well, you can't go wrong on that aspect with Nagai as director. And "eternal reality" is one of my favorite songs ever. In a simple statement, Silent Party was boring. The science side always has interesting conflicts in Index, yet they made AC seem tame in this arc. And you can't go worse than that. |
| A small correction,Kamachi isnt involved with the filler arcs.He just takes what he/she likes as canon.Thats why you dont see chars referring back to those arcs.The most you see is names and photos of Banri and her friend.Unless if he forgets what has written before while he is writing them. First of all what I hated the most.Misaka asking everyone and their dog for help against what she thought to be like Accelerator and ITEM.THey could have done a lot of things to avoid that,like having Heaven Canceler not talking about the darkness at all or saying that the darkness refused to accept them.Anything that would make Misaka NOT put them at the same basket with ITEM and the level 6 shift.As long as Misaka was asking them to help her asking a bunch of nobodies,because thats what they were,I would be fine with that. Then we have all the plot devices that were used to prolong the arc. THE Heave Canceler not being able to recreate whatever was inside the lollipop. Uiharu's abilities are non existent and she ends up as some net search engine. Misaka barely holds back an Armored Suit.This gets even worse when you see her knocking out dozens of them while carrying Febri. Kongou reduced to a failed comic relief char. Yoshikawa sitting at home,leaving children deal with something very dangerous.....and appears only for the big final ep and still lets them do all the work. In case Misaka's power does allow her to increase her speed to stop a gun,why didnt see use that when she first saw STUDY's leader and take the valuable info instead of allowing them to paralyze her? That is all I remember for now. Then we have characters going out of character like the very mc,Misaka blindly trusting someone that really couldnt care less if they all die.Especially after the end of the Sisters arc where she sees that AC just isnt a place that can be trusted. Febri,Janie,the lollipops and even STUDY arent the problem.The problem is how they presented them. I am not going into detail about the last ep that ruined the very set of laws that Kamachi has set. There is a reason why in the LN,a Saint is the only one sent into space while unprotected,there is a reason everyone can breathe easily while on the Star of Bethlehem etc. |
ssjokgOct 5, 2013 4:50 AM
| When Misaka is able to hold back forces on the level of Brunhild I dont see how she cant easily hold back a metal bar/suit without breaking a sweat. Since the suits arent any different with each other,I dont understand how her powers suddenly start working against the the last ones. She has enough control of her powers to raise or lower the level of her attacks many times,not just between super weak level and devastating level.Obviously they are made out of the same metal.So why cant she just use electromagnetism to hold it back with ease? It doesnt make sense how many of them in ep24 just fall down by her just touching them but against that one in ep20 she cant use her powers. Also Misaka has seen those suits before.She knows that a hard fall wont injure or kill the human inside.That is one of their purpose anyway.To protect the one inside.As for her holding back to not injure him is also bs when she is shown frying people in Academy City without any problem some times simply because they called her a kid. I think that attacking seriously against someone that obviously wants to harm you and your friends is part of her char. |
| And again Iam not saying that she should open a hole in it. Since electricity DOES work on them why didnt she keep it still with electromagnetism?Why go through the trouble of pushing herself by using the iron sand? I said seen not fought.Misaka knows the detail about every other non classified Hard Science model.Why would she not know about a type of Armored Suit that the villain of the last season was in command of? THEy were so strengthened that they ended up being stopped by some kids and being KOed by Misaka touching them with her palm and electricity..... I also have to mention that it doesnt make sense that she is able to stop them like this since there are no circuits to fry but anyway.... |
Terrie said: Strengthened enough to resist an iron sand attack that would knock out those marble robots from last season, I suppose. Teleportation displaces matter, so even cotton can destroy diamond. If I remember correctly, Saten failed with her bat. Misaka obviously upped her electricity output, by gauging the defence of the first robot she fought. ssjokg said: I also have to mention that it doesnt make sense that she is able to stop them like this since there are no circuits to fry but anyway.... Huh? She destroys ceramic with her electricity. Why would she need to fry any circuits at all when she can just destroy the robots with her electricity? I am not talking about Kuroko but the level 0's that were stopping the suits by just pushing them with riot shields. So why didnt she do it to the first one?It's not like all the others had any visible major damage.As I said she was stopping some simply by touching them.Why couldnt that happen earlier? The biggest problem is that the studio couldnt just decide how strong those suits were.Or how strong Mikasa is.I dont know. |
ssjokgOct 7, 2013 1:32 AM
| here is a legitimate complaint they did a filler arc instead of one of the cannon arcs from railgun :) |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=670147 I mentioned (what I thought to be) a problem with the chronology of events in the above post, but this was more in relation to the Index movie. IMO i didn't care for the silent party arc. On the surface I can see what it was trying to do, Mikasa trying to learn from the mistakes made in the course of the Level Upper arc, and close the series on a positive note. No need to mention the "darkness of AC" in Upper arc as it was implied through the subject matter! And the whole fight at the end just didn't make sense. Those machines should've slammed alot of people really. Its too "happily-ever-after" that no one was seriously hurt. I would rather they have ended at the end of the Upper arc, then fill with some slice-of-life stuff. Or, even better, **POSSIBLE SPOILER** explore the sub-story about how Kuroko eventually learns about the Sisters program when she fights Awaki Musujime! I know it was covered off in the second season of Index in two or so episodes. Why not expand on it, add a few new perspectives, and then close on the whole friendship/learn-from-your-mistakes thing?! Those few episodes were the best of Index 2! Anyway, just a rant. |
| This has all been very useful feedback from you guys... hazerddex said: here is a legitimate complaint they did a filler arc instead of one of the cannon arcs from railgun :) Except you hazerddex, obviously. From what I can tel,l my thoughts are more or less in alignment with you guys. I didn't like the antagonists at all, I couldn't get attached to Febrie, I kept on seeing characters display PIS and see them going out of character. And the last episode (even though it was a visual treat for anime fans) was completely broken on both logic and following the rules and laws already established in the source material. That being said, the completely opposite mood compared to the Sisters arc was the right thing to do IMO. Seeing Mikoto rely on her friends in this was also good (if they didn't try to cram it down our throats). However, she CANNOT involve her friends with the darkness; it goes against her character and the already established franchise. This is coming from a stats guy like me but after looking at the poll responses from both MAL and Animesuki, Ep21 is the point where dissatisfaction in the arc by LN readers becomes apparent; all due to that moment. That may be the arc's biggest flaw. Calling Study a part of the darkness and getting everyone to fight against the darkness. If they had not done that, then it wouldn't matter if Mikoto involved her friends or that the villains were terrible; and LN readers would be able to swallow the arc a bit easier. The last episode is a stand alone problem. If it were any other anime, I'm sure LN reader and what not would have enjoyed it as much as anyone else. But the writers failed to realize that they were writing a story in the Index universe: where there is a clearly established set of laws and a logical reason behind everything that occurs in the story and action the more you think about it (I'm talking about the Index LNs and Railgun Manga here; NOT the INDEX ANIME!). When you try to think about the last episode in regards to the source material, almost nothing works.: Saten fighting against powered suits with a baseball bat and then piloting one perfectly on the the first try after just reading the manual the night before? A bit much for a Level 0 with no special qualities or skills don't you think. Mikoto and Kuroko breathing in space without wearing protective suits and then getting back to the Earth's surface safely due to Kuroko's teleporting? Teleporting is supposed conserve momentum goddammit! And they'ld be dead before that issue due to being exposed to temperature and pressure differences without protective equipment. Again any other series would have been fine, but not this series, not this franchise... All of the good stuff in the arc largely falls on great... no spectacular animation, seeing the characters do STUFF, seeing Mikoto slowly recuperate after the Sisters Arc... However, if the plots and threads that hold it together just don't work AND you aren't willing to ignore it, then the arc CANNOT be enjoyable. dwilli10 said: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=670147 I mentioned (what I thought to be) a problem with the chronology of events in the above post, but this was more in relation to the Index movie. IMO i didn't care for the silent party arc. On the surface I can see what it was trying to do, Mikasa trying to learn from the mistakes made in the course of the Sisters arc, and close the series on a positive note. No need to mention the "darkness of AC" in Upper arc as it was implied through the subject matter! And the whole fight at the end just didn't make sense. Those machines should've slammed alot of people really. Its too "happily-ever-after" that no one was seriously hurt. I would rather they have ended at the end of the Sister arc, then fill with some slice-of-life stuff. Or, even better, **POSSIBLE SPOILER** explore the sub-story about how Kuroko eventually learns about the Sisters program when she fights Awaki Musujime! I know it was covered off in the second season of Index in two or so episodes. Why not expand on it, add a few new perspectives, and then close on the whole friendship/learn-from-your-mistakes thing?! Those few episodes were the best of Index 2! Anyway, just a rant. Fixed it. If by mistakes you mean not telling her friends, there's good reason not to involve her friends with murderers. Also you should probably rewatch those episodes again and listen carefully to what was being said and how it was being said. Kuroko still doesn't know about the Sisters. Better yet, read the LNs; they are an order of magnitude better than the Index anime. |
|
| Yep, "mistakes" meaning not involving her friends. Of course she had her reasons. I might have to re-watch them then. From memory it wasn't said explicitly but I thought it was implied and Kuroko had learned the truth. I'm reading the LNs atm ;) EDIT: You're right. Kuroko doesn't actually learn about the sisters, does she. Hmmm. |
dwilli10Oct 7, 2013 9:29 PM
ssjokg said: And again Iam not saying that she should open a hole in it. Since electricity DOES work on them why didnt she keep it still with electromagnetism?Why go through the trouble of pushing herself by using the iron sand? I said seen not fought.Misaka knows the detail about every other non classified Hard Science model.Why would she not know about a type of Armored Suit that the villain of the last season was in command of? THEy were so strengthened that they ended up being stopped by some kids and being KOed by Misaka touching them with her palm and electricity..... I also have to mention that it doesnt make sense that she is able to stop them like this since there are no circuits to fry but anyway.... well there might be circuits if its the kind of suit they used in the document of Constantine arc |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
hazerddex said: ssjokg said: And again Iam not saying that she should open a hole in it. Since electricity DOES work on them why didnt she keep it still with electromagnetism?Why go through the trouble of pushing herself by using the iron sand? I said seen not fought.Misaka knows the detail about every other non classified Hard Science model.Why would she not know about a type of Armored Suit that the villain of the last season was in command of? THEy were so strengthened that they ended up being stopped by some kids and being KOed by Misaka touching them with her palm and electricity..... I also have to mention that it doesnt make sense that she is able to stop them like this since there are no circuits to fry but anyway.... well there might be circuits if its the kind of suit they used in the document of Constantine arc The one sin this arc didnt have.Thats is why she failed with the first one. |
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