tsudecimo said: I'm honestly appalled about how some people need to be spoon feed everything, like using your brain is asking for too much. This fanbase if I can even call it that, disgusts me. I understand your enthusiasm toward the series and I appreciate it whenever I see you defending some parts of it, but let's look at it objectively here. If there is any series that is the master of spoonfeeding, it's this one. Not that it's still as smart as before, they just spoon feed some really silly parts. No matter how much overanalysis one can squeeze out, the latest arcs are very inconsistent and shallow, and very simple. If anyone needs to use a brain it's kishimoto, to realize what a job he's been doing. The most obvious plot twist in the history of manga needed half an episode of flashbacks, that were already spoonfeeding sinfe they keep re-playing the same crap with slight additions. And it's all because of sasuke's development going downhill and the much worse obito, who made it very rediculous. The latest arc that is. He's dragging down the quality with him, he needs to die ASAP |
KaiserNazrin said: Well, they are both terrible. Its pretty difficult to choose which one is the worst since they annoyed me equally. The Uchiha are so emotional. Love make you crazy. Batshit crazy. Though I think Obito wanting to throw everyone into illusionary world because his crush died and the world suck is pretty awful. He is angry because the world doesn't go the way he wanted. Like a spoiled brat or something. (at least that how I see it) Who suffered more actually? Obito lost his crush. Half of his body and eye? Sasuke lost his brother, family and clan. Even though his life is terrible, at least Sasuke didn't resort to quit and live in illusion instead. Deal it with, Obito. This whole Uchiha emotional thing is BS imo. The last package of information and powers are just all out of nowhere to ret-con stuff and take away from how good and badass they were. |
Archadian said: I understand your enthusiasm toward the series and I appreciate it whenever I see you defending some parts of it, but let's look at it objectively here. I'm afraid that's not possible for me, you and every other human on this earth. If there is any series that is the master of spoonfeeding, it's this one. Not that it's still as smart as before, they just spoon feed some really silly parts. No matter how much overanalysis one can squeeze out, the latest arcs are very inconsistent and shallow, and very simple. If anyone needs to use a brain it's kishimoto, to realize what a job he's been doing. Over-analysis my ass. The stuff are clear as day but people just misunderstand them or ignore parts of them, to hate on characters. Example is the Obito hate bandwagon. Best example would be how most people seem to misunderstand Sasuke character, and try to ridicule his character with petty immature crap (i.e emo sasugay) The most obvious plot twist in the history of manga needed half an episode of flashbacks, that were already spoonfeeding sinfe they keep re-playing the same crap with slight additions. And it's all because of sasuke's development going downhill and the much worse obito, who made it very rediculous. The latest arc that is. He's dragging down the quality with him, he needs to die ASAP What are you talking about? are you talking about Obito reveal? well you are just wrong because that silent flashback was all new content. It was honestly great and I loved that they did it before the official reveal, the fact that it was silent brought a lot of artistic feel to it. If you are just talking about the Obito flashback where he gets crushed under the rocks that has been played a lot, then that's just the anime studio padding, it wasn't repeated in the manga... No, his latest development was great, and added much depth to him. I loved his last meeting with Itachi even more than the Madara massacre. I don't know what you want me to say, since you are being vague as hell, so I can only counter your 'points' by disagreeing with them.. |
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| Obito is by far my favorite naruto character and the only reason I'm still watching/readin this mess. :/ |
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| New footage, same information, spoon-feeding. Actually back in manga days the silent thing got a lot of shit for ripping off a style of another weekly jump manga that apparently did it a few weeks back. And it was a snooze fest in the anime. In the manga it just made the troll moment a lot worse. I don't read the manga anymore but people are saying it gets even worse. Tobi is the farthest from depth any character could be in the series. And they are actually still focusing on him which is annoying. |
| Don't compare Sasuke to Obito . Obito is the best antagonist on Naruto , while Sasuke is a mere simple minded character . |
-Klad- said: Obito is the best antagonist on Naruto I think you mean in, and I disagree, but I won't explain why, it's too troublesome. I prefer Pein so much more, his ideology is believable, and when he was talking about peace and stuff, looking from another point of view, what he said make sense. |
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
P-sychotic said: Because Sasuke is an annoying whiny bitch and what he wants to do is stupid. Tobi is also stupid and his voice in the first arc (with Sasori and Deidara) annoyed the hell out of me. I agree that Orochimaru is a much, much better villain to have as the main villain all the way through. Took me a while to appreciate his character but when I look back to the original Naruto at least he was pretty badass. Also, Naruto, Tobi/Obito, and Sasuke are all still Genin. The Fourth Great Shinobi War is all being fought because of ninja who haven't passed the ninja equivalent of Middle School. Second this! |
ToG25thBaam said: -Klad- said: Obito is the best antagonist on Naruto I think you mean in, and I disagree, but I won't explain why, it's too troublesome. I prefer Pein so much more, his ideology is believable, and when he was talking about peace and stuff, looking from another point of view, what he said make sense. Actually ON as in Naruto show, and no, he's not the best. Ever since he arrived this show is taking a serious dive in quality. I hope he dies so we can go back to something better. |
| After seeing this, no. |
"I have been wielding a blade since before your were swimming around your father's scrotum." - Kurou |
| You know telling me that Sasuke himself will SURPASS him in being bad doesn't make me feel any better. I want it the other way around. To focus more and improve him. |
| Obito is the worst antagonist in Naruto. His motivations are stupid as fuck. OH QQ Rin died (the girl that never loved me anyways). Now I'm going to go obliterate the world. Really? Sasuke wants to destroy the Leaf because they used his brother as a tool and pretty much ruined his whole family's reputation. Not to mention all his family members were killed in the process. Sounds a lot more reasonable than Obito. Now if you read the manga Obito goes full retard. I won't go into any details b/c well this is an anime discussion. |
zzzeallyApr 4, 2014 12:47 AM
| obito and his reasoning for why he is doing all this are straight up last minute ass pull material. stuff a writer comes up with when he has to write something but is way past the point where he gives a shit. if obito was fully planned out from the very beginning then oh boy. |
xSanox said: obito and his reasoning for why he is doing all this are straight up last minute ass pull material. stuff a writer comes up with when he has to write something but is way past the point where he gives a shit. Last minute .-. |
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xSanox said: obito and his reasoning for why he is doing all this are straight up last minute ass pull material. stuff a writer comes up with when he has to write something but is way past the point where he gives a shit. if obito was fully planned out from the very beginning then oh boy. Trust me it would still have sucked. As a matter of fact, he did plan it from the beginning, but so badly that it felt last-minute to you. (and us) Edit: oops sorry, although in a sense I did you a big favor but since you have a fetish for these plot twists I'll tag them, my bad. |
rodacApr 5, 2014 10:24 PM
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| Omg dude, you just spoiled season 9 for me, and I literally started marathoning today..fuck |
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| Sasuke is not one of my favorite characters anymore,but I believe his actions are quite reasonable compared to what he's been through. Obito lost his crush and felt betrayed so he decided to force everyone to live in an illusion, because he is disappointed in the world. If I had to choose which I like the most that would be Sasuke. However Obito is the one who keeps the story somewhat interesting right now, even though I think this arc is rather frustrating. |
danae17 said: even though I think this arc is rather frustrating. Just curious, why do you feel this way about the war arc? |
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| http://i.imgur.com/SyACzdM.jpg - Chapter 629 "There's no hope in this world, I walked around on behalf of Madara, and everything I saw just confirmed my belief" - Chapter 655 You guys are being too ignorant to understand anything about Sasuke and Obito, don't expect to be satisfied by anything. If you're going to bitch then bitch about Nagato becoming evil because Yahiko died, bitch about Kabuto becoming evil because his mother died, don't bitch about a kid becoming evil because his whole family was slaughtered in front of his eyes. "Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values" - Donquixote Doflamingo Fact is none of us have been in a war, don't pretend you have been and don't project your own opinion on people who have been. |
MinagatachiApr 4, 2014 3:47 PM
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| Sasuke, he has been a shitty character since the start. lol. |
Order-Sol said: Sasuke, he has been a shitty character since the start. lol. Nope. |
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Minagatachi said: http://i.imgur.com/SyACzdM.jpg - Chapter 629 "There's no hope in this world, I walked around on behalf of Madara, and everything I saw just confirmed my belief" - Chapter 655 You guys are being too ignorant to understand anything about Sasuke and Obito, don't expect to be satisfied by anything. If you're going to bitch then bitch about Nagato becoming evil because Yahiko died, bitch about Kabuto becoming evil because his mother died, don't bitch about a kid becoming evil because his whole family was slaughtered in front of his eyes. "Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values" - Donquixote Doflamingo Fact is none of us have been in a war, don't pretend you have been and don't project your own opinion on people who have been. I'm bitching about how repetitive it is. Every villain faces some traumatic event producing the same shit-faced emo villain. I wish we'd get ACTUAL character development from them. But no, it's all after the fighting is over that they throw the flashbacks in our faces and when they lose they make them all tsundere and cute. You don't see them struggle with their beliefs. Shit happens = go crazy. And look, about your second sentence, I'm from Iraq, and lived there until 2006. Didn't really participate in the war but I saw what it was like, not gonna tell you it's all rainbows and giggles, and what's next is unrelated to Naruto or manga, but I'm gonna ask you to have the decency to stop talking like you know what the fuck you're talking about just because a Japanese comic book writer told you to think you know it. So stop trying to justify it in that pseudo-philosophical way using real life political incidents as a defense when you yourself have no idea what it's like. Now back to Naruto, Tobi is just a histrionic little bitch who wants world domination to avenge his crush. One person's life is not insignificant, but the execution of it was terrible. Going through a life time of villainy undone because of some kid after -of course- he had already lost anyway. That seems to be the format of new villains of Naruto. |
| Like who? Was Nagato an ''emo'' villain? Oro? Kabuto? The Akatsuki members? Zabuza? Itachi? The point of that is to humanize some of the villains. For their motivation to be something more than ''lol i'm evilz''. I think he has a done a wonderful job in that regard. And to establish why the Ninja world needs changing, and why Naruto is the person who is gonna change it, carrying the will of the past generations with him. Character development like Nagato when he was a kid, to the grown Nagato, to Pain? if that's not character development than what is? so what if it was in a flashback. The personality of Nagato and how he became Pain was mystery and a secret, so showing it before Naruto defeats the six path of Pain is kinda pointless. How did he not struggle with his beliefs? all that talking of Naruto, and denying everything Naruto said because of his pessimistic beliefs of the world. Thats him struggling with the belief he had. It wasn't until Naruto, reminded him with his old self, through a quote of him, that Nagato, started to change views on his methods. I don't think you know what tsundere means. Archadian said: Now back to Naruto, Tobi is just a histrionic little bitch who wants world domination to avenge his crush Obito is a delusional and a broken person. Rin's death was only the initial spark, it made him disregard all of his former beliefs, ideals and dreams because of the way i happened. He doesn't want to avenge her, he just harbors hatred for the world he lives in. It was not about Rin dying, it was about how it happened. People die especially in the ninja world he lives in. But Rin didn't just die and then he heard about it. She died in front of him by Kakashi. That image was so absurd and insane, that it made him snap, lose his mind and go berserk. I literally can't think of a worse thing to happen to Obito than that scene. Which gets emphasized by him saying ''I'm in Hell''. His resolve to getting better in the first part of the episode was founded by his desire to see Rin and Kakashi. To come back together to the team, to protect them and be with them, but all of that was crushed to pieces by the image of Rin being pierced by Kakashi. That was an extreme mental fuck to him that changed him to his core and changed the way he sees everything. His ideals, hopes, dreams were all crushed after what transpired. He is in a state of personal and mental hell, despair and absolute hopelessness. Without anything to direct this hate towards aside from the cruel unforgiving Shinboi world he lives in. He is broken. I think that makes his execution believable. And gives more than a good enough reason for someone to change drastically. After Rin's death, Madara urged Obito to go see the world for what it is. He kept witnessing the same horrible things over and over again, he realized what the world truly was. That's why he wants to create his own world. In a way Rin's death showed him reality, but the reason he wants to do Infinite Tsukyomi is because he now understands how bad reality is. Rin's death was just the spark and initial motivation for his plan. I say this because he always speaks about how the world is full of lies, betryal and hopelessness. That this worthless world is not worth living. He is deluded to an extreme degree, heartless, emotionless and unfazed to anything. He regards all those death and atrocious things he is responsible for as nothing. Since in his mind, all the suffering he caused, all the people who died or the people who is responsible for their death like Yahiko will live a happy life in his ideal world. They are not real to him, they will only be real to him in that world. Prime example of that would be Kakashi. Obito didn't try to get revenge and kill him when he has fainted. He told Madara when he asked them if he is protecting an old comrade ''that's not the real Kakashi, the real Kakashi will live in the world I create along with Rin.'' A couple of quotes from Obito to reinforce my above points: 'I'm no one… I don't want to be anyone. All I care about is completing the Eye of the Moon Plan. This world is completely worthless...there is nothing left in it but misery' 'This world no longer needs heroes like hope or the future' 'It will be a new world… A world of truth, not lies' 'You've seen reality, you should be able to understand… No wish can become true in this world. That's why I'm pursuing the dream of infinite Tsukuyomi. I want to build a world where heroes don't have to make pitiful excuses in front of graves' ''Even if you delay the problem by using words like ''hope'', the empty reality will still be there waiting for you.'' These aren't the words of someone that's sad about a girl not liking him or a crush dying. That sounds like somebody that's completely and utterly given up on the world and on humanity. A man defined by misanthropy and hatred of the world in general. In future episodes, he will be referencing his famous quote (Those who don't save their comrades are worse than trash) quite a lot, to Kakashi. And there is a lot to come with his conflict with Kakashi, but that would be spoilers. 'Somewhere inside me? Take a good look, there's nothing inside of me anymore! I don't feel pain, I don't feel anything! You need to let that guilt go Kakashi. This wind hole wasn't your doing..it was made by this evil, cruel world.' |
tsudecimoApr 5, 2014 12:10 AM
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Archadian said: Actually, I never said I knew anything about war, I actually said me (and pretty much 100% of people who bitch about this) have NO idea about war. If you're bitching about how repetitive it is because EVERY villain is like this, then why did you single out Obito and Sasuke? Surely if it's repetitive then thread should be called "Why are all villains the same" or something like that. Also, did you lose anyone close to you when you lived in Iraq? In front of your eyes? If not then I'm afraid " I'm gonna ask you to have the decency to stop talking like you know what the fuck you're talking about"Minagatachi said: http://i.imgur.com/SyACzdM.jpg - Chapter 629 "There's no hope in this world, I walked around on behalf of Madara, and everything I saw just confirmed my belief" - Chapter 655 You guys are being too ignorant to understand anything about Sasuke and Obito, don't expect to be satisfied by anything. If you're going to bitch then bitch about Nagato becoming evil because Yahiko died, bitch about Kabuto becoming evil because his mother died, don't bitch about a kid becoming evil because his whole family was slaughtered in front of his eyes. "Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values" - Donquixote Doflamingo Fact is none of us have been in a war, don't pretend you have been and don't project your own opinion on people who have been. I'm bitching about how repetitive it is. Every villain faces some traumatic event producing the same shit-faced emo villain. I wish we'd get ACTUAL character development from them. But no, it's all after the fighting is over that they throw the flashbacks in our faces and when they lose they make them all tsundere and cute. You don't see them struggle with their beliefs. Shit happens = go crazy. And look, about your second sentence, I'm from Iraq, and lived there until 2006. Didn't really participate in the war but I saw what it was like, not gonna tell you it's all rainbows and giggles, and what's next is unrelated to Naruto or manga, but I'm gonna ask you to have the decency to stop talking like you know what the fuck you're talking about just because a Japanese comic book writer told you to think you know it. So stop trying to justify it in that pseudo-philosophical way using real life political incidents as a defense when you yourself have no idea what it's like. Now back to Naruto, Tobi is just a histrionic little bitch who wants world domination to avenge his crush. One person's life is not insignificant, but the execution of it was terrible. Going through a life time of villainy undone because of some kid after -of course- he had already lost anyway. That seems to be the format of new villains of Naruto. |
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Minagatachi said: Archadian said: Actually, I never said I knew anything about war, I actually said me (and pretty much 100% of people who bitch about this) have NO idea about war. If you're bitching about how repetitive it is because EVERY villain is like this, then why did you single out Obito and Sasuke? Surely if it's repetitive then thread should be called "Why are all villains the same" or something like that. Also, did you lose anyone close to you when you lived in Iraq? In front of your eyes? If not then I'm afraid " I'm gonna ask you to have the decency to stop talking like you know what the fuck you're talking about"Minagatachi said: http://i.imgur.com/SyACzdM.jpg - Chapter 629 "There's no hope in this world, I walked around on behalf of Madara, and everything I saw just confirmed my belief" - Chapter 655 You guys are being too ignorant to understand anything about Sasuke and Obito, don't expect to be satisfied by anything. If you're going to bitch then bitch about Nagato becoming evil because Yahiko died, bitch about Kabuto becoming evil because his mother died, don't bitch about a kid becoming evil because his whole family was slaughtered in front of his eyes. "Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values" - Donquixote Doflamingo Fact is none of us have been in a war, don't pretend you have been and don't project your own opinion on people who have been. I'm bitching about how repetitive it is. Every villain faces some traumatic event producing the same shit-faced emo villain. I wish we'd get ACTUAL character development from them. But no, it's all after the fighting is over that they throw the flashbacks in our faces and when they lose they make them all tsundere and cute. You don't see them struggle with their beliefs. Shit happens = go crazy. And look, about your second sentence, I'm from Iraq, and lived there until 2006. Didn't really participate in the war but I saw what it was like, not gonna tell you it's all rainbows and giggles, and what's next is unrelated to Naruto or manga, but I'm gonna ask you to have the decency to stop talking like you know what the fuck you're talking about just because a Japanese comic book writer told you to think you know it. So stop trying to justify it in that pseudo-philosophical way using real life political incidents as a defense when you yourself have no idea what it's like. Now back to Naruto, Tobi is just a histrionic little bitch who wants world domination to avenge his crush. One person's life is not insignificant, but the execution of it was terrible. Going through a life time of villainy undone because of some kid after -of course- he had already lost anyway. That seems to be the format of new villains of Naruto. Because it was good at first and now they are milking the shit out of it. Obito being bad himself doesn't help. Nagato was actually a good character almost all the way through. And yes. I have. Not close to my eyes, but a lot of my friends did, no one is seeking world domination .so I'm gonna make assume real-life events are pretty different from your PG-13 teen ninja comic book. |
Archadian said: So why exactly are you getting angry at a PG-13 teen ninja comic book for not being realistic? Minagatachi said: Archadian said: Actually, I never said I knew anything about war, I actually said me (and pretty much 100% of people who bitch about this) have NO idea about war. If you're bitching about how repetitive it is because EVERY villain is like this, then why did you single out Obito and Sasuke? Surely if it's repetitive then thread should be called "Why are all villains the same" or something like that. Also, did you lose anyone close to you when you lived in Iraq? In front of your eyes? If not then I'm afraid " I'm gonna ask you to have the decency to stop talking like you know what the fuck you're talking about"Minagatachi said: http://i.imgur.com/SyACzdM.jpg - Chapter 629 "There's no hope in this world, I walked around on behalf of Madara, and everything I saw just confirmed my belief" - Chapter 655 You guys are being too ignorant to understand anything about Sasuke and Obito, don't expect to be satisfied by anything. If you're going to bitch then bitch about Nagato becoming evil because Yahiko died, bitch about Kabuto becoming evil because his mother died, don't bitch about a kid becoming evil because his whole family was slaughtered in front of his eyes. "Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values" - Donquixote Doflamingo Fact is none of us have been in a war, don't pretend you have been and don't project your own opinion on people who have been. I'm bitching about how repetitive it is. Every villain faces some traumatic event producing the same shit-faced emo villain. I wish we'd get ACTUAL character development from them. But no, it's all after the fighting is over that they throw the flashbacks in our faces and when they lose they make them all tsundere and cute. You don't see them struggle with their beliefs. Shit happens = go crazy. And look, about your second sentence, I'm from Iraq, and lived there until 2006. Didn't really participate in the war but I saw what it was like, not gonna tell you it's all rainbows and giggles, and what's next is unrelated to Naruto or manga, but I'm gonna ask you to have the decency to stop talking like you know what the fuck you're talking about just because a Japanese comic book writer told you to think you know it. So stop trying to justify it in that pseudo-philosophical way using real life political incidents as a defense when you yourself have no idea what it's like. Now back to Naruto, Tobi is just a histrionic little bitch who wants world domination to avenge his crush. One person's life is not insignificant, but the execution of it was terrible. Going through a life time of villainy undone because of some kid after -of course- he had already lost anyway. That seems to be the format of new villains of Naruto. Because it was good at first and now they are milking the shit out of it. Obito being bad himself doesn't help. Nagato was actually a good character almost all the way through. And yes. I have. Not close to my eyes, but a lot of my friends did, no one is seeking world domination .so I'm gonna make assume real-life events are pretty different from your PG-13 teen ninja comic book. Oh, and Harvey Dent turned evil because the girl he loved died, but no one gave a shit about that. |
MinagatachiApr 5, 2014 1:29 AM
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| Because it doesn't follow its own consistency neither is it GOOD. The whole story built up harvey's character instead of a retrospective flashback pulled out of his after his ass got kicked. |
| So I got ignored ;_; LoneWolfRain said: Tobi is one of the worst characters in Naruto. Ever since I found out his identity I just couldn't bring myself to enjoy the manga. It's bullshit. Why .-. |
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| I will reply later. |
Archadian said: Because it doesn't follow its own consistency neither is it GOOD. The whole story built up harvey's character instead of a retrospective flashback pulled out of his after his ass got kicked. I'm not talking about the execution of his character, I'm talking about the motive. I think it's stupid when people say "Oh Obito is starting a war because the girl he loved died? What a load of shit". Give Two-Face a Sharingan and tell him about Infinite Tsukyomi and I can guarantee he'd pull the same shit. No one is denying that Two Face's descent had a better execution because, like you said, the whole movie's story led up to it. But in terms of motives him and Obito are pretty much in the same boat (and a ridiculous amount of other villains I must add, but I'm just using Harvey off the top of my head). Then you also have Light Yagami. He didn't even have a direct reason for what he was doing except that, like Obito, he saw the darkness of their world and knew he was the only one who had the power to change it. We weren't even given a reason why Light had that view on life, but we were given a reason why Obito did. Again, if we're talking motives then I think Obito's is better than Light's who, by the way, is 4th place on MAL for character popularity. People who complain about Obito's motives are bitching for the sake of bitching, people who are complaining about the poor execution of his character are completely valid in my opinion though (and you seem to be the latter, so I agree with you on that). With that said I believe Pierrot is handling Obito's execution in a much better manner, though that could possibly be because the manga made me set such low standards for him or because I just got tired of complaining. As for Sasuke, I respectfully disagree with anyone who thinks he is a bad character. |
MinagatachiApr 5, 2014 4:03 AM
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| No good reason :/? Did you read my above post? I think there were subtle foreshadowing, but I sadly didn't write it down. |
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| BOY, YO NAME IS TOBEH! |
LoneWolfRain said: I don't see the problem with his reason. I could name so many villains who have turned evil because they lost a loved one, it's honestly that common. And Obito's character is essentially suppose to be a Naruto that has turned bad, and suppose to show what Naruto could have been like. You'll see it go a bit more in depth later on, but the two's similarities is pretty important.tsudecimo said: The thing is, Obito seemed like he had the same exact personality as Naruto. he was a nice kid that was just a little jealous of Kakashi like Naruto was for Sasuke. I know the circumstances for his change were different than Naruto's, but I just didn't like Obito's change.No good reason :/? Did you read my above post? I guess I shouldn't say "no good reason" but more so that I didn't LIKE his reason. |
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tsudecimo said: Like who? Was Nagato an ''emo'' villain? Oro? Kabuto? The Akatsuki members? Zabuza? Itachi? Kabuto, Nagato, Sasuke, Tobi, (previously Gaara, Neji) The point of that is to humanize some of the villains. For their motivation to be something more than ''lol i'm evilz''. I think he has a done a wonderful job in that regard. And to establish why the Ninja world needs changing, and why Naruto is the person who is gonna change it, carrying the will of the past generations with him. Character development like Nagato when he was a kid, to the grown Nagato, to Pain? if that's not character development than what is? so what if it was in a flashback. The personality of Nagato and how he became Pain was mystery and a secret, so showing it before Naruto defeats the six path of Pain is kinda pointless. Humanizing a villain is fine. Rinsing and repeating the same shit over and over because it sold the first time isn't. And no he hasn't. One Piece villains tend to be generic bad guys, and currently Naruto villains tend to be generic good-deep-down bad guys. Pretty much all the same... repetitive. It's different with Zabuza. They might have shown a different size of him. But he did not just suddenly become good. He was still the "demon" that he was. Just.. humanized a bit. GREY. The rest just suddenly and awkwardly jump from black to white. That's the difference. Good character development doesn't show 90% of it after the end of everything to explain shit, after the generic part had already made the cut as if they come in blocks. It doesn't just consist of children going through pretty much the same crap and going melodramatic over it and become super-villain. That's typical "development" 101. There's not even build up. Nothing intricate. Just A leading to B. How did he not struggle with his beliefs? all that talking of Naruto, and denying everything Naruto said because of his pessimistic beliefs of the world. Thats him struggling with the belief he had. It wasn't until Naruto, reminded him with his old self, through a quote of him, that Nagato, started to change views on his methods. Look at the way you described it. Simple as shit and quite a terrible reason to do that. Magnitude of it all is imbalanced. So what, he suddenly forgot the quote? And just a reminder of it made him say ok that's fine whatever? What about the bullshit revival? I'll tell you what. Because fans wouldn't feel for him after killing all those people. He'd be controversial (terribly so still, but...), like I said he wanted to completely wash him and make a new nagato. Black, to white. I don't think you know what tsundere means. Then please, explain it. Oh another tsundere/emo... Kyuubi and the Bijuu, nothing felt like betrayal more than these till Tobi came and made me forget a bit. Obito is a delusional and a broken person. Rin's death was only the initial spark, it made him disregard all of his former beliefs, ideals and dreams because of the way i happened. He doesn't want to avenge her, he just harbors hatred for the world he lives in. Only the spark yet the scene immediately after is where he want batshit. What were his former beliefs ideals and dreams? Whatever they were, he completely disregarded them in one instant, not only is that pretty much the same used plot of the nagato route, how is it good? It's simple and had no development. Just an event. It was not about Rin dying, it was about how it happened. People die especially in the ninja world he lives in. But Rin didn't just die and then he heard about it. She died in front of him by Kakashi. That image was so absurd and insane, that it made him snap, lose his mind and go berserk. I literally can't think of a worse thing to happen to Obito than that scene. Which gets emphasized by him saying ''I'm in Hell''. His resolve to getting better in the first part of the episode was founded by his desire to see Rin and Kakashi. To come back together to the team, to protect them and be with them, but all of that was crushed to pieces by the image of Rin being pierced by Kakashi. Yes. It changed him to the cliche as hell cunt we know now, a jarring breakdown.... until [I hope not] he gets completely 180'd by the heroes' Talk no Jutsu. That was an extreme mental fuck to him that changed him to his core and changed the way he sees everything. His ideals, hopes, dreams were all crushed after what transpired. He is in a state of personal and mental hell, despair and absolute hopelessness. Without anything to direct this hate towards aside from the cruel unforgiving Shinboi world he lives in. He is broken. Which Kishi conveyed terribly. It was very melodramatic and over-the-top. How was he not given anything to direct his hate toward other than... everything? Paradox? Oxymoron? Contradiction? That's stupid. How did it change him to the core? How did it crush his dreams and ideals and everything he had? It's not like those two were the only thing going on in his world. It's not like the world is full of deceit and taking this just like that is quite dumb. I think that makes his execution believable. And gives more than a good enough reason for someone to change drastically. [/quote[ What does? Everything you said describes the what... not the how. After Rin's death, Madara urged Obito to go see the world for what it is. He kept witnessing the same horrible things over and over again, he realized what the world truly was. That's why he wants to create his own world. In a way Rin's death showed him reality, but the reason he wants to do Infinite Tsukyomi is because he now understands how bad reality is. Rin's death was just the spark and initial motivation for his plan. I don't see how parroting his own words is... analyzing but ok. I know these things happened, I'm merely remarking upon how stupid it is. How badly written and executed it was. And how unoriginal the idea itself is. How unbelievable turning into that like that was. 2) You just said everything was crushed at that moment and yet he took it in over time? I say this because he always speaks about how the world is full of lies, betryal and hopelessness. That this worthless world is not worth living. He is deluded to an extreme degree, Again, a change that is melodramatic, not well-transitioned, not well executed... etc etc. heartless, emotionless and unfazed to anything. He regards all those death and atrocious things he is responsible for as nothing. Since in his mind, all the suffering he caused, all the people who died or the people who is responsible for their death like Yahiko will live a happy life in his ideal world. and hence he would consider Rin's death and all the atrocities he witnessed as nothing, that no one is responsible for and it creates a paradox. They are not real to him, they will only be real to him in that world. Prime example of that would be Kakashi. Obito didn't try to get revenge and kill him when he has fainted. He told Madara when he asked them if he is protecting an old comrade ''that's not the real Kakashi, the real Kakashi will live in the world I create along with Rin.'' A couple of quotes from Obito to reinforce my above points: How... do they reinforce them? 'I'm no one… I don't want to be anyone. All I care about is completing the Eye of the Moon Plan. This world is completely worthless...there is nothing left in it but misery' 'This world no longer needs heroes like hope or the future' 'It will be a new world… A world of truth, not lies' 'You've seen reality, you should be able to understand… No wish can become true in this world. That's why I'm pursuing the dream of infinite Tsukuyomi. I want to build a world where heroes don't have to make pitiful excuses in front of graves' ''Even if you delay the problem by using words like ''hope'', the empty reality will still be there waiting for you.'' All these are the same thing. Let's hope he doesn't turn tsundere and make these quotes sound completely retarded. After all, he is completely delusional, unable to see ANY good in the world throughout those years that he witnessed the bad things as well. Even dismissing hope itself. There's no way he could be talk no jutsu'd I think. These aren't the words of someone that's sad about a girl not liking him or a crush dying. Yes, essentially, it is different, and just as bad. Coupled with the horrible execution, and it looks just like that. That sounds like somebody that's completely and utterly given up on the world and on humanity. A man defined by misanthropy and hatred of the world in general. In future episodes, he will be referencing his famous quote (Those who don't save their comrades are worse than trash) quite a lot, to Kakashi. And there is a lot to come with his conflict with Kakashi, but that would be spoilers. on't feel pain, I don't feel anything! You need to let that guilt go Kakashi. This wind hole wasn't your doing..it was made by this evil, cruel world.' So he's just another super-evil typical villain who will either stay in this cliche state or pull a nonsensical 180. Also I like how, just like when Frieza was a lot stronger than Vegeta... this is just a greater degree of the same thing that happened with Nagato. |
| Is there a "they are the same" option? Come on, now both character's decisions depend on what Kishi wants to write next, NOT what they would do. |
Archadian said: Kabuto, Nagato, Sasuke, Tobi, (previously Gaara, Neji) Sasuke and Neji and Gaara are villains? what? None of those were 'evil'. Humanizing a villain is fine. Rinsing and repeating the same shit over and over because it sold the first time isn't. And no he hasn't. One Piece villains tend to be generic bad guys, and currently Naruto villains tend to be generic good-deep-down bad guys. Pretty much all the same... repetitive. It's different with Zabuza. They might have shown a different size of him. But he did not just suddenly become good. He was still the "demon" that he was. Just.. humanized a bit. GREY. The rest just suddenly and awkwardly jump from black to white. That's the difference. Good character development doesn't show 90% of it after the end of everything to explain shit, after the generic part had already made the cut as if they come in blocks. It doesn't just consist of children going through pretty much the same crap and going melodramatic over it and become super-villain. That's typical "development" 101. There's not even build up. Nothing intricate. Just A leading to B. It's a theme in the series. And you establish a theme by showcasing it through different characters and different lives and situations. The point was to show how can anyone become evil depending on the path he takes and how he reacts to the tragedies he suffered through. What are the actual black villains in the series? I can count Deidera, Kakzu and Hidan. Most of the rest are humanized and grey in morality. That's because Zabuza wasn't a good guy from the beginning like Obito and Nagato. He simply cared about Haku and was only honest about it in the end. The rest are grey through and through. They don't jump. They are usually ''white'' and become grey. They don't go from one point to another. Unless you care to give examples. And that's not character development in my opinion too. It's character development in the sense that the past characters changed to this point but it's not a character development in the current time line of the narrative like Garra for example. I don't know how you can think of Pain's character as generic after or before the flashback. And how is the build for his character anything but intricate? it explained in details the personality of Nagato and the rise of the six paths of Pain. His ideals and why he views the world, his past relationships with Jiaiya and it's relation to the current time line, the prodigy thing, the exposition of the Riennegan, and all sorts of details that are relevant to the plot as a whole. I thought it was very well done, and one of the best backstories to an antagonist. It didn't simply lead from Nagato being ''good'', to Nagato being ''bad''. Look at the way you described it. Simple as shit and quite a terrible reason to do that. Magnitude of it all is imbalanced. So what, he suddenly forgot the quote? And just a reminder of it made him say ok that's fine whatever? What about the bullshit revival? I'll tell you what. Because fans wouldn't feel for him after killing all those people. He'd be controversial (terribly so still, but...), like I said he wanted to completely wash him and make a new nagato. Black, to white. Simple to you maybe. But it hold weight to Nagato, not only because it reminded it of himself but because he felt that the answer he seeks is present in Naruto. You have to remember that him doing all those stuff were him trying to create peace in his own way, it was twisted due to his past, and despair of not finding a peaceful way to accomplish it. He was not like Hidan or Kakzu, he didn't kill for the sake of enjoying it or selfish reasons (money), he only did what he thought was necessary to achieve peace, that he despertely seeks. Something people also seem to not realize is that the faceless killing and stoic expression was not Nagato's, it was the six diva's. He is not merciless, he is just a pessimistic person who only sees despair. Naruto influenced that point of view, by meeting him. I don't know why a lot of people have problem with that. In a way it was the same as Chiyo's scene, where in both they are trusting the next generation to better the Shinboi world and they gave their lives away with their jutsus as an atonement to what they have done in the past. It was inspirational. Which is what the manga strives to be. Then please, explain it. Oh another tsundere/emo... Kyuubi and the Bijuu, nothing felt like betrayal more than these till Tobi came and made me forget a bit. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tsundere What? Only the spark yet the scene immediately after is where he want batshit. What were his former beliefs ideals and dreams? Whatever they were, he completely disregarded them in one instant, not only is that pretty much the same used plot of the nagato route, how is it good? It's simple and had no development. Just an event. Are you a robot or something? you expect a 12 year old, to react calmly or with no burst of emotions to such an absurd situation. No I guess, it would have been normal for him to no be extremely emotional after witness his fucking friend killing someone important to him right before his eyes. I said the spark to his moon plan and his later personality. His ideals and dreams were crushed that was the point. Surely when an extremely horrific event happen, that goes against your morals and ideals, you are not gonna keep having them. What is this. You expect people to hold the same ideals and hopes, even if the harsh reality crush them, and not change drastically? are you a child or something. That's so naive and unrealistic. Who thinks like this. I guess everyone who is an opmtemstic and cheerful should stay this way, no matter what, doesn't matter if all sorts of horrible things happen to you. You must remain static in facing them, apparently. I guess you also think Sasuke not being the same happy kid before the murder of his clan to be stupid. Dreams of going back to his team with Kakashi and Rin, to work together with Kakshi and become good friends and protecting both of them as shown in the first half of the episode. Ideals of your comrades being important to you, of being a good Shinobi for Konoha, and overall being good and helpful to others. Those are the ideals and dreams that were crushed by that event. The personality of Obito in terms of how he sees the world after that event is later showed according to manga readers. I think I wrote about this in that post. Yes. It changed him to the cliche as hell cunt we know now, a jarring breakdown.... until [I hope not] he gets completely 180'd by the heroes' Talk no Jutsu. Cliche because? Ehhh. I personally really like Tobi's character, the mystery, his sarcastic remarks, how he plays around with a lot of character and provoke them, his dialogue and his interactions with everyone was enjoyable, interesting and well done. But you are just labeling everything cliche, generic and what's not. What is generic about the Masked guy character? Which Kishi conveyed terribly. It was very melodramatic and over-the-top. How was he not given anything to direct his hate toward other than... everything? Paradox? Oxymoron? Contradiction? That's stupid. How did it change him to the core? How did it crush his dreams and ideals and everything he had? It's not like those two were the only thing going on in his world. It's not like the world is full of deceit and taking this just like that is quite dumb. I didn't feel it was melodramatic. I liked the raw emotions of those scenes, and the layers it had. Nothing to direct his hate towards, like a person I meant. Like how Sasuke directed his hate towards Itachi. Obito wasn't even able to direct it towards Kakashi, the idea of Kakshi was disregarded from Obito's mind. ''The real Kakashi will live in the world I create''. This is also relevant to the truth behind Rin's death which Obito finds out about. Did you not pay attention at all to the first part of that episode? what do you think was the purpose it? They were his motivation and important things he wanted to protect. The event simply broke that and whatever ideals, dreams, hopes, wishes, thoughts, motivation, etc he had with Kakashi and Rin. I'm feel like I'm repeating myself, everything you asked I already addressed, but you seem to disregard some stuff and focus on others. I don't see how parroting his own words is... analyzing but ok. I know these things happened, I'm merely remarking upon how stupid it is. How badly written and executed it was. And how unoriginal the idea itself is. How unbelievable turning into that like that was. 2) You just said everything was crushed at that moment and yet he took it in over time? Again, a change that is melodramatic, not well-transitioned, not well executed... etc etc. Unbelievable how? omg. The personality of his was built over time and further reinforced. Not the initial crush of his. The resolve and the continuous motivation is what took in time. It was well executed. The transition didn't get enough coherent focus yet. and hence he would consider Rin's death and all the atrocities he witnessed as nothing, that no one is responsible for and it creates a paradox. What? he consider them nothing, I didn't say that he thought he was nor responsible for them occurring. A couple of quotes from Obito to reinforce my above points: How... do they reinforce them? They reinforce that Obito is not doing the moon plan, just to have Rin in his ideal world. And reinforce his personality and his mentality. All these are the same thing. Sure why not. They are same, despite some meaning different things, and some having completely different/hardly similar words. http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbl8txctAx1rw5f5so1_r1_500.gif So he's just another super-evil typical villain who will either stay in this cliche state or pull a nonsensical 180. Oh my fucking god. How is he a super evil villain? Did you not get anything out of what I wrote. Meh whatever. Also I like how, just like when Frieza was a lot stronger than Vegeta... this is just a greater degree of the same thing that happened with Nagato. I'm not even going to try and decipher this. |
tsudecimoApr 17, 2014 6:01 AM
|
| Uchihas are emo, they may be both "worse" |
tsudecimo said: Sasuke and Neji and Gaara are villains? what? None of those were 'evil'. They are tsundere black-to-white emo villains. It's a theme in the series. And you establish a theme by showcasing it through different characters and different lives and situations. The point was to show how can anyone become evil depending on the path he takes and how he reacts to the tragedies he suffered through. It's a cliche* in the series. And one that used to be handled well but then was being redone for the sake of it. And still not achieving what it originally had. They were showing that anyone can become evil? Almost every single one of those characters were introduced evil... they weren't showing how deep they can fall... except for Tobi, in which it was shown to be completely retarded. Sasuke was the only legitimate development to show that... until it got AXE'd in shippuden. What are the actual black villains in the series? I can count Deidera, Kakzu and Hidan. Most of the rest are humanized and grey in morality. Grey villains: Zabuza, Danzo Black to white villains (tsundere): Neji (not "black" but... anal... it was early and his position wasn't that high an enemy), Gaara, Nagato, Itachi, Kyubii, Kabuto (kinda), other tailed beasts That's because Zabuza wasn't a good guy from the beginning like Obito and Nagato. He simply cared about Haku and was only honest about it in the end. Which made it far more realistic and personal than the transition-less, teen-boy-catalyzed white-to-black-to-white. The rest are grey through and through. They don't jump. They are usually ''white'' and become grey. They don't go from one point to another. Unless you care to give examples. Being white originally doesn't make them grey. Like I said above, it makes them white-to-black-to-white... which is even more jarring. And that's not character development in my opinion too. It's character development in the sense that the past characters changed to this point but it's not a character development in the current time line of the narrative like Garra for example. I don't know how you can think of Pain's character as generic after or before the flashback. I was just putting him as an example. He's a good character, at least a good portion of him. It's the "development" he got... that was generic. And how is the build for his character anything but intricate? it explained in details the personality of Nagato and the rise of the six paths of Pain. His ideals and why he views the world, his past relationships with Jiaiya and it's relation to the current time line, the prodigy thing, the exposition of the Riennegan, and all sorts of details that are relevant to the plot as a whole. I thought it was very well done, and one of the best backstories to an antagonist. It didn't simply lead from Nagato being ''good'', to Nagato being ''bad''. I liked most of these portions but wouldn't call them intricate... they are informative either way.And fun.Simple to you maybe. But it hold weight to Nagato, not only because it reminded it of himself but because he felt that the answer he seeks is present in Naruto. You have to remember that him doing all those stuff were him trying to create peace in his own way, it was twisted due to his past, and despair of not finding a peaceful way to accomplish it. He was not like Hidan or Kakzu, he didn't kill for the sake of enjoying it or selfish reasons (money), he only did what he thought was necessary to achieve peace, that he despertely seeks. Something people also seem to not realize is that the faceless killing and stoic expression was not Nagato's, it was the six diva's. He is not merciless, he is just a pessimistic person who only sees despair. Naruto influenced that point of view, by meeting him. The end justifying the means trope isn't lost on anyone. And while nagato had a decent run with it, Tobi didn't. First, it was an OP-style repetition, and was badly written, lacking any depth, and lacked any good execution except that which is added by the anime (music, animation). And even that is scarce. I don't know why a lot of people have problem with that. In a way it was the same as Chiyo's scene, where in both they are trusting the next generation to better the Shinboi world and they gave their lives away with their jutsus as an atonement to what they have done in the past. It was inspirational. Which is what the manga strives to be. 1- People weren't really okay with the Chiyo scene 2- One person was not as much of an asspull as a whole village and a main character. 3- People might have been indifferent due to the whole arc being boring as hell, whereas they felt trolled because the invasion was good before that. "The term was originally used to describe characters who began with a harsh outgoing personality, but slowly revealed a soft and vulnerable interior over time. " The examples on that page are more slice-of-life-ish, my point is the black-to-white leap. Add angst and death to the equation and you get a seriously melodramatic emo boy/girl. Are you a robot or something? you expect a 12 year old, to react calmly or with no burst of emotions to such an absurd situation. No, but I also don't expect him to act like a moron either. Especially a kid who pretty much was near death himself (out of willing sacrifice), he'd be more of an adult than anyone I can think of. I expect some actual development, not histrionic one-liner emo shit that you can find on tumblr, to drive his character; i.e I want good execution. He, himself, seemed like a robot being programmed into said "development" rather than naturally happening. They shoe-horned it. No I guess, it would have been normal for him to no be extremely emotional after witness his fucking friend killing someone important to him right before his eyes. I said the spark to his moon plan and his later personality. Masterplan: make an illusion w orld > never occurred to him to inquire about the possibility of that being an illusion. So it sparked the moonplan but his views and ideals were crushed immediately yet he still had to waddle about to watch more for them to crush eventually? Good. His ideals and dreams were crushed that was the point. Surely when an extremely horrific event happen, that goes against your morals and ideals, you are not gonna keep having them. What is this. You expect people to hold the same ideals and hopes, even if the harsh reality crush them, and not change drastically? are you a child or something. That's so naive and unrealistic. More naive and unrealistic than going emo and wanting world domination? Again you're just reiterating what happened. Not why it's good. Traumatic experience> Change in views > Villainy we get it. The way they went along that trope? Horrible. I already said why. Way too unrealistic, over-the-top, and 'jumpy'. Who thinks like this. I guess everyone who is an opmtemstic and cheerful should stay this way, no matter what, doesn't matter if all sorts of horrible things happen to you. You must remain static in facing them, apparently. I guess you also think Sasuke not being the same happy kid before the murder of his clan to be stupid. I guess you think Naruto and Killerbee are static and stupid and unrealistic. I don't want them to be cheerful... I want 1) Kishi to stop repeating the same trope over and over 2) such changes in characters to be well-developed... not shoe-horned and forced. And that's saying a lot since Tobi had a good chunck of shippuden for them to add a lot to it. 3) them to stop going back, once they went black. Dreams of going back to his team with Kakashi and Rin, to work together with Kakshi and become good friends and protecting both of them as shown in the first half of the episode. Ideals of your comrades being important to you, of being a good Shinobi for Konoha, and overall being good and helpful to others. Those are the ideals and dreams that were crushed by that event. You just said that like 16 times, and forced me to reply over and over too... Yes. It changed him to the cliche as hell cunt we know now, a jarring breakdown.... until [I hope not] he gets completely 180'd by the heroes' Talk no Jutsu. Cliche because? Ehhh. I personally really like Tobi's character, the mystery, his sarcastic remarks, how he plays around with a lot of character and provoke them, his dialogue and his interactions with everyone was enjoyable, interesting and well done. But you are just labeling everything cliche, generic and what's not. What is generic about the Masked guy character? His story. I didn't feel it was melodramatic. I liked the raw emotions of those scenes, and the layers it had. Nothing to direct his hate towards, like a person I meant. Like how Sasuke directed his hate towards Itachi. Obito wasn't even able to direct it towards Kakashi, the idea of Kakshi was disregarded from Obito's mind. ''The real Kakashi will live in the world I create''. This is also relevant to the truth behind Rin's death which Obito finds out about. What layers? Wait did he choose to not hate him & avenge her or was he robbed from the choice of hating Kakashi? Did you not pay attention at all to the first part of that episode? what do you think was the purpose it? They were his motivation and important things he wanted to protect. The event simply broke that and whatever ideals, dreams, hopes, wishes, thoughts, motivation, etc he had with Kakashi and Rin. I'm feel like I'm repeating myself, everything you asked I already addressed, but you seem to disregard some stuff and focus on others. You are. But due to lack of things to work with in the argument, not me. If he broke away from all that what was the 'spark' and catalyst for everything? huh... Unbelievable how? omg. The personality of his was built over time and further reinforced. Not the initial crush of his. The resolve and the continuous motivation is what took in time. It was well executed. The transition didn't get enough coherent focus yet. Having time =/= using time.It took long but they never worked well or long enough on it to make it believable. What? he consider them nothing, I didn't say that he thought he was nor responsible for them occurring. Hence, the spark is gone and thus creating another paradox. They reinforce that Obito is not doing the moon plan, just to have Rin in his ideal world. And reinforce his personality and his mentality. The bad execution reinforce the opposite. The quotes reinforce that he's a one-and-half-dimensional villain with one-liners and no depth. Oh my fucking god. How is he a super evil villain? Did you not get anything out of what I wrote. Meh whatever. In the current 'phase' of the world, he dismisses hope and anything good and is willing to do anything bad to accomplish his ends. You just said he even thinks the idea of hope is moot... he's not willing to listen and if he does he's not intent on being swayed... LET. ALONE. GOING. 180. So... if he does go 180 like that other poster hinted... I might buy the volume just to take a shit on it. It would be the biggest asspull of all time. (at least our kishi has a consistency of breaking his own records -.-) I'm not even going to try and decipher this. Well it kinda has more coherence than Tobi's character! Please try to analyse the exuction rather than writing blocks of what we already know. I can't wait for this shit to be over so we can go back to redeeming Sasuke/Orochimaru. |
ArchadianApr 17, 2014 12:09 PM
| Fix your quotes if you want me to reply. |
|
| The current filler is really amazing, and i am skeptical at the fact that kishimoto may of had a hand in it. I don't believe this to be from the minds of the studio. In any case, this just goes to further show how much kishimoto just was not on the ball with certain things and how certain story aspects of his manga didn't quite pan out like he had hoped so he had to try and jam so many of these plot points together in the war arc to make logical sense of it. This story truly needs an epilogue of some sort of a time taking place after the war to really redeem it, i fear its going to end anticlimactic if it ends with the war) Personally i think tobi is a great villain, the way he was developed as a main antagonist, how he was a large part of kakashi's past life and how he was secretly the instigator behind most events and how he was manipulating everyone including the uchiha clan was all great stuff. Its when his revelation as obito was revealed, is when it really starts going down the deep end. I think kishimoto had a good concept that he was following but i think he could of handled it a bit better regarding obito's character. Certain things like rins death was the whole reason behind why he did what he did. Honestly he should of took rin out of the picture, created a scenario that is a bit more believable. It would of added more substance to the character and more logical thinking. Rin is not even a main part of the story really, i mean it was just kind something that their at the spur of the moment, thrown out their as a reason why obito went down such a dangerous path. Maybe at this time he was influenced by his real life and his family in some way, i am not sure. In any case kishimoto actually does come up with a more conclusive reasoning behind obito's "dark descent" but at the same time. it is just not enough to fix what he already integrated into the main story about rin. Though regardless of my complains, i am still enjoying naruto for what it is, its not all terrible, other wise you people would of dropped it along time ago. It is still a very solid series, solid story line and wide range of inspiring and believable characters going through lots of growth through out the series. To me that is what really keeps it going strong, i get tied of seeing cookie cutter villains, white to black with no soul, just a pure evil intent like the espada's from bleach. Naruto tries to keep things more realistic and kishimoto adds a layer of humanistic treats to many of the characters. |
ArtimesGamerApr 17, 2014 4:25 PM
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link9us said: Naruto tries to keep things more realistic and kishimoto adds a layer of humanistic treats to many of the characters. That would be true for the first few arcs, definitely not the current ones. It's very imbalanced and unrealistic. |
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