| In preparation for Hellsing Ultimate X (the final and 10th OVA episode) being released on Boxing Day, I decided to re-watch the Hellsing TV series and see how it stands to the test of time and just finished it. Hellsing TV series certainly does stand the test of time with an awesome soundtrack and animation being good in general. I remember the Hellsing TV series being just darn awesome and re-watching it makes me feel it still is but the 2nd half of the anime was weaker and there was a point where I got bored of it and actually didn't want to continue watching it. The whole Incognito thing just felt like BS but I guess it is since he was never part of the original manga and so his whole arc and his minions just felt so out of place. Particularly the final episode of the TV series just felt like a mess, it was most definitely rushed to make a conclusion to the Incognito Anime-only arc. The final episode of the series was the weakest of them all. Hence, my final score for Hellsing TV series is 8/10. I've read the manga and I know Integra is So yeah, what do you guys think? |
| Ha, that's interesting! |
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| Kilmat, I haven't read the manga in so long, I did finish it, so my memory of it is very hazy but I'll happily jump into the bandwagon for the pairing of |
| Indeed, Hellsing TV was quite good. Re-watching it made me appreciate it so much more. The atmosphere, the music, more realistic approach to the story and characters. All very well done. The main reason people underrate it is because of the last two episodes, which were complete shit as you pointed out. Incognito ruined the story so much that most people tend to forget about how good the earlier material was, which is a shame. What I don't understand though is why people love Ultimate so much. To me episodes 5-9 feel just as shallow as the old Incognito arc, very little even happens in these episodes. They mostly just consist of characters posing to look cool, characters having 10 minute monologues to sound cool, and the mindless slaughter of folks, of which rarely pushes the story forward. Ultimate definitely had the potential to be a much more fun experience, but I feel they really screwed things up in the second half. Are people just giving this material a free pass because it was in the manga? |
DunkyDec 25, 2012 8:57 AM
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| DunkyHarwood That is a topic to discuss Integra as a character, not to start another pointless Hellsing TV vs. Hellsing OVA already long lost by the TV series. Go away. |
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| Re-read the original post and thread title my man, that's only a part of it. And don't be so afraid of a healthy argument, we are all just trying to better understand and analyze the material, I bring up these questions to better understand the fans, so that I might discover a new way of appreciating the material. That's why I feel it's important to read reviews and read discussion forums, there is always something new to learn. I implore everyone to re-watch the TV series if they are looking for a good time, you might discover something great in it that you never noticed before. |
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| Original post broadcasted about Hellsing TV much, that's true. Thread title? Not at all. But maybe I was a little bit too harsh. Anyway, I don't believe that's the right place still. Here was a place, also we already had our healthy argument there. If you genuinely want even more of my arguments, you can check up me bubbling about Seras forever here. |
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| Well (in addition to the question), perhaps think of this thread as more a suggestion to re-visit the original if you have already watched it, or a suggestion to not skip straight to Ultimate if you haven't seen it yet. I've seen too many suggestion threads that completely dismiss the original, it's really painful to see suggestions like that. It's funny how quickly people forget about how good something was when they see a bad ending. I already got everything I could out of that old thread, I was kind of hoping we could have a fresh argument without things getting so dumbed down, but if people don't want to then I care either way. |
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DunkyHarwood said: I already got everything I could out of that old thread, I was kind of hoping we could have a fresh argument without things getting so dumbed down, but if people don't want to then I care either way. Problem is, most definitely we would just start rehashing old arguments instead of making new ones. Because old arguments are still valid and there are simply not much new ones in sight. No matter the thread. I mean just look at your own first post in this topic and compare it to those from the old one, then try to say I'm not right here with a straight face. But it feels like I'm dragged in again. I has been already mentioned, but the problem with the old series is not just those two last episodes. Incognito at minimum is present in the last five episodes, not two. And there were enough problems before his appearance. |
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Klimat said: Umm, you are very wrong in saying that. I, in fact, raised a new question, and not a question of which series is better as you seem to believe. I asked why people so easily ignore the flaws of Ultimate, but are so quick to bash on the original. That was the whole point of my post. A debate on which series is better was not my main intent, but it would of course come with the territory.I mean just look at your own first post in this topic and compare it to those from the old one, then try to say I'm not right here with a straight face. Klimat said: Yes, I believe he is present in the last 5 episodes, but he makes only very brief appearances in three of those episodes, the story isn't centered around him until the final two, or rather 1 and a half, episodes.Incognito at minimum is present in the last five episodes, not two. And there were enough problems before his appearance. |
DunkyDec 25, 2012 10:40 AM
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DunkyHarwood said: Umm, you are very wrong in saying that. I, in fact, raised a new question, and not a question of which series is better as you seem to believe. I asked why people so easily ignore the flaws of Ultimate, but are so quick to bash on the original. That was the whole point of my post. A debate on which series is better was not my main intent, but it would of course come with the territory. Ok then. Because flaws of Ultimate are only a few and minor, also they are certainly not the flaws you are referring to. In my opinion. OVA flaws are the following: cutting off some scenes from the manga in episode one (Alucard massacring Richard's men, Integra actually killing Richard, gags with Alucard reporting about turning Seras, first shooting practice, Arthur explaining Integra stuff about vampires - this all may sound like a lot, but in fact all of this could have been crammed in four minutes no problem), switching the second shooting practice from OVA3 to credits of OVA6, cutting off the scene with magic bullets destroying SAS helicopters in detail in OVA4, design-wise girl's shoulders (mostly Integra's and Rip's) are too wide in some scenes (mostly OVA5 for Integra, obviously OVA4 for Rip), also OVA8 needs more animation and less static shots/CGI, remastering of OVAs 2, 3 and 4 from DVD format into BD format was not as good as remastering of OVA1. Can't recall more right now. I don't think your complaints are valid. A lot of things actually happens throughout the story, characters are good, long monologues and cool poses are great (really, would you prefer them to talk in generic dull poses as in 95% of other anime shows or what?), slaughter is always a plus. DunkyHarwood said: Klimat said: Yes, I believe he is present in the last 5 episodes, but he makes only very brief appearances in three of those episodes, the story isn't centered around him until the final two episodes.Incognito at minimum is present in the last five episodes, not two. And there were enough problems before his appearance. Neither the story is centered around anything worthy to be centered around. Except for Master of Monster. |
KlimatDec 25, 2012 11:13 AM
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| Yes, this is what I wanted, I'm glad you responded. Maybe we can get to the heart of this question. While I do realize that much of the stuff I dislike are aspects that you might enjoy, I do feel that the general lack of realism in Ultimate leads to poor characterization. They tend to put more of a focus on how the characters present themselves, like with their stances, with their facial expressions, and so on, rather than on a character's actions or on a character's dialogue. It's basically a matter of style over substance. Things aren't as as tastefully done as they are in the TV series (though admittedly, the TV series is sometimes guilty of this too, it just doesn't happen quite as often). And that's not even mentioning the misplaced comic relief, but well, at least most people point this out in reviews and such. It doesn't bother me as much since people acknowledge this as a problem. For me, I feel both series have very apparent flaws (for example neither have very good storylines to begin with), but in Ultimate the flaws are much more numerous. What's interesting is that many of the complaints I have with Ultimate are present in the TV series, but they don't come up nearly as often. I feel like they took all the bad parts of the original and multiplied them ten-fold, while also removing everything that made the original so engaging (in particular the amazing music, the way in which tension builds up, and the haunting atmosphere). The slow pacing, however, is a problem unique to Ultimate. When I diagram what is accomplished in any given episode, I see very little progression of the main storyline. While I do understand that this is an action-oriented show and that the story is secondary, the action scenes quickly lose their value when there is little to no substance backing the them. As someone else pointed out in a different thread, "Action falls flat without a story to carry it." I can't believe you would even assert that leaving out some panels from the manga is a flaw in the anime though. A flaw as an adaptation, perhaps, but certainly not a flaw of the anime. You are basically proving my hypothesis that people are generally more interested in this show as an adaptation rather than as a stand-alone anime. Because of this, I believe many are overlooking the apparent flaws of the show, of which likely come from the source material itself. I do agree with you that the drop in animation quality when they switched animation studios is an issue, I forgot about that one, but it didn't bother me as much as the other stuff I pointed out. |
DunkyDec 25, 2012 12:45 PM
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DunkyHarwood said: You are basically proving my hypothesis that people are generally more interested in this show as an adaptation rather than as a stand-alone anime. Because of this, I believe many are overlooking the apparent flaws of the show, of which likely come from the source material itself. Saying I'm overlooking anime flaws because those flaws are from the manga is not quite correct for the simple reason I never saw them as flaws in the manga itself to begin with. I love the manga. Only flaw I can name there is some drawing inconsistencies, designs changing halfway through in the earlier volumes because it's author was still in the process of finding his art style. Still saying I'm interested in Ultimate as an adaptation rather than as a stand-alone anime is actually 100% correct. On the other hand, there are enough people here on MAL who like OVA without ever reading the manga, I even have an impression they are the majority over the manga-reading team. Well, because people nowadays prefer watching things over reading them in general. To prove it further, Hellsing manga by now has been added to their lists by 23,768 users vs. 77,274 users for Ultimate. DunkyHarwood said: The slow pacing, however, is a problem unique to Ultimate. When I diagram what is accomplished in any given episode, I see very little progression of the main storyline. That's kinda funny because it is possible to prove the opposite with the simplest comparison. Episode 1 from the TV series was exclusively all about the Cheddar incident, 23 minutes long. Well, 20 minutes without credits. In OVA it's 15 minutes if we don't count Master of Monster insert parts. Master of Monster itself in OVA only took 4 minutes vs. the whole freaking episode in old adaptation. Club M - 5 minutes in OVA, another whole episode for Hellsing TV. Actually concerning OVA1 manga fans usually complain the pasing was too fast, not the other way around. Anderson fights are so messed up and rearranged in TV series I just have no idea how co compare them, so let's proceed to Jan & Luke ark. The whole Ultimate episode 2 is dedicated to it, 42 minutes minus the ending credits and two minutes of Alucard's dream in the beginning. For TV it's episodes 4, 5 and 6. Three episodes 20 minutes each without credits, 60 minutes in total. Objectively TV series is the one dragged and slow-paced here. DunkyHarwood said: While I do realize that much of the stuff I dislike are aspects that you might enjoy, I do feel that the general lack of realism in Ultimate leads to poor characterization. They tend to put more of a focus on how the characters present themselves, like with their stances, with their facial expressions, and so on, rather than on a character's actions or on a character's dialogue. It's basically a matter of style over substance. I simply can not agree with that. DunkyHarwood said: While I do understand that this is an action-oriented show and that the story is secondary, the action scenes quickly lose their value when there is little to no substance backing the them. As someone else pointed out in a different thread, "Action falls flat without a story to carry it." But there is a story. |
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| For the slow pacing thing, I forgot to say disregard the first 4, maybe even 5, episodes, I was very happy with the pacing until then. In fact, most of my complaints apply only to the second half. I remember episodes 8 and 9 being the most painfully slow, if I find time I will try to diagram out what happens in one of those episodes to show you what I mean. Klimat said: The only thing I can conclude from that is that I don't get the appeal of this show, at least not the second half of it. I mean, I'm one of the biggest action fans there is, almost everything I watch has action in it, but I just don't have it in me to overlook the extreme superficiality of everything. Don't you at least recognize that the two halves of the show feel very different in pacing and in content? It's like the anime suddenly came to a crashing halt halfway through. I enjoyed the first half because things were actually being accomplished.Saying I'm overlooking anime flaws because those flaws are from the manga is not quite correct for the simple reason I never saw them as flaws in the manga itself to begin with. I love the manga. Only flaw I can name there is some drawing inconsistencies, designs changing halfway through in the earlier volumes because it's author was still in the process of finding his art style. Still saying I'm interested in Ultimate as an adaptation rather than as a stand-alone anime is actually 100% correct. On the other hand, there are enough people here on MAL who like OVA without ever reading the manga, I even have an impression they are the majority over the manga-reading team. Well, because people nowadays prefer watching things over reading them in general. To prove it further, Hellsing manga by now has been added to their lists by 23,768 users vs. 77,274 users for Ultimate. Klimat said: Well, come now, neither series has a very good story. If there's one thing most Ultimate fans will at least admit to, it's that the story has never been its strong point. This one is all about the violence and the over-the-topness.DunkyHarwood said: While I do understand that this is an action-oriented show and that the story is secondary, the action scenes quickly lose their value when there is little to no substance backing the them. As someone else pointed out in a different thread, "Action falls flat without a story to carry it." But there is a story. |
DunkyDec 26, 2012 12:27 AM
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DunkyHarwood said: For the slow pacing thing, I forgot to say disregard the first 4, maybe even 5, episodes, I was very happy with the pacing until then. In fact, most of my complaints apply only to the second half. I remember episodes 8 and 9 being the most painfully slow, if I find time I will try to diagram out what happens in one of those episodes to show you what I mean. Episode 8 was full of grand scale battles eye-candy, of cause those need to take their time. Also one of the major characters died, a major faction got crushed, some big revelations unfolded, character-defining traits were shown etc. Go ahead and diagram episode 9. DunkyHarwood said: The only thing I can conclude from that is that I don't get the appeal of this show, at least not the second half of it. I mean, I'm one of the biggest action fans there is, almost everything I watch has action in it, but I just don't have it in me to overlook the extreme superficiality of everything. Don't you at least recognize that the two halves of the show feel very different in pacing and in content? It's like the anime suddenly came to a crashing halt halfway through. Well, two halves are indeed different: episodes 1-4 are the introduction (fragmented, full of exposition and foreshadowing), episodes 5-10 are the real thing (one integral plot from start to finish, things promised before actually unfold, all Chekhov's guns are firing, characters die, big revelations happen, plotlines are resolved). I definetely like the second half more. DunkyHarwood said: Well, come now, neither series has a very good story. If there's one thing most Ultimate fans will at least admit to, it's that the story has never been its strong point. This one is all about the violence and the over-the-topness. I actually love it for the characters first, action second. The plot is also good. DunkyHarwood said: I mean, I'm one of the biggest action fans there is, almost everything I watch has action in it... So what are your favourite action anime shows ever? |
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| I pretty much agreed with most of what Klimat said about Integra (although her fate, unlike the TV series where she obviously became a vampire, it's more ambiguous. Could be, could be not. It'll depend of what she wants, she doesn't even hate vampires (not even her father hated vampires), she just dislikes enemies. Whatever was an enemy in her book was killed. It didn't matter if they were made of Jesus remains (like Anderson). My two cents. |
ThessDec 29, 2012 3:51 AM
| I loved Hellsing TV whole show was just cool (exept last episode with Incognito) animation music general feel of it just great, i don't like OVAs much, too much mindless slaughter and look at me i am badass. Why people like Integra? for me she was annoying... would rather like to see Serah x Alucard. |
| lakisa Watch OVA episode 7 or better watch OVA till the end, then we'll talk why Seras x someone else except for Pip is bad. |
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| Well... Because she's my favorite character: vulnerable, human in subtle ways (only manga, unless the OVA finally decided to add this), strong, determinate, beautiful young woman with an iron will and immensely loyal with her people. She's very caring too (but isolated, so she only demonstrates this with her close circle). I love her flaws: her antisocial nature, how she's prone to anger, how she's blinded by her trust in others, her paranoia and extreme reaction to betrayal, her healthy vanity. I like Seras too a lot (Integra and Seras with Pip are actually my favorites). I suggest you the manga, since the OVA do cut a lot of emotional development sometimes (and I dislike the designs. OVA 7 is great though). You're entitled to your preferences. Alucard is way more developed in the Manga than he ever was in the Anime where he was your Token Faustian Arrogant Guy (though he did get some development after episode 9, it's still not as striking as Manga Alucard who is the one who actually deals with self-loathing as vampire which gets subtle development first became flooding out full force). I wouldn't say Seras x Anyone else but Pip is bad, shipping is for fun (I do have a soft spot for IntegraxSeras *shot*), but yeah they are the "perfect couple". Seras is happy with him. Pip's happy with Seras. That's kind of refreshing. |
ThessDec 29, 2012 11:22 AM
Klimat said: lakisa Watch OVA episode 7 or better watch OVA till the end, then we'll talk why Seras x someone else except for Pip is bad. hmm just checked episode 7 again didn't Pip died there? Seras just drunk blood from his corpse don't think he became vampire. |
lakisa said: hmm just checked episode 7 again didn't Pip died there? Seras just drunk blood from his corpse don't think he became vampire. The very episode gives you the answer. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't click it. |
ThessDec 29, 2012 10:06 PM
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