| I can't get my mind around this. If Shiro could make a sword that is strong enough to kill Berserker 7 times with one swing. Why can't Archer? He's the older Shiro right!? So if Shiro had those visions about that sword I'm shure Archer can also make it! Also I read that Archers goal was to kill Shiro. To save him from suffering the same fate he did. Even if that where to create a time paradox. So why diddent he just kill Illya and be done with Beserker? He had plenty of chances to do that... |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| Why Archer lost: Simple. He isn't the main character. A.k.a. If we considare power then Archer could have won. In Unlimited Blade Works he creates tons of legendary weapons at once and controls all of them so he can attack whit the sword you talked about and thousands of other swords at the same time. ^^" How ever since the anime is about the Saber path and not the UBW path Archer had to go so his story won't be revaled in this path. In the visual novel there are 3 paths. Saber, Thousaka & Sakura. Saber path = Anime. Thousaka path = Archer's story and stuff like that. Sakura = The dark path whit black saber and stuff whit Rider. Archer's original motive was what you said how ever he realised that Shirou aleady took a different path then what Archer took in his past and that is why he changes his mind. |
| I now found out. In the anime Archer killed Berseker 5 times whit UBW. In the original story he killed Berserker 6 times whitout UBW and while still being injured by the wounds Saber gave him at the begining. Now whitout the wounds and whit UBW he would have won in the original story or so I really think that. |
| Yup, he killed Berserker 6 times. That irritates me the most about the anime. They just wanted to glorify Shiro more than the game did. Plus, he had a chance to kill Ilya but he didn't because he was attached to her. So, he could have won. |
 Znips: When Shay is born she just crawls back in the womb to shitpost for another year |
| Hm, this is definitely a good question. The definite is that Archer was injured, like someone said. You could also consider that Berserker was injured when he fought Shiro, so that may be how he won. What could be hypothesized is that Archer has not seen Caliburn yet, so he could not project it. Then again, it is guessed that Archer's path is a continuation of the Fate route, where Shiro did project Caliburn and kill Berserker, so it is only plausible. In the Unlimited Blade Works route, Archer once threatened to project Excalibur; if he has the ability to do that, then he should've been able to easily defeat Berserker, but he did not. Who knows how he lost, but it is most likely the injury... |
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| Or maybe Archer just doesn't have it to beat Berserker? |
Vaan said: Plz don't Joke around like that. It's not funny!Or maybe Archer just doesn't have it to beat Berserker? |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| I thought he hasn't fully recovered from Saber's slash... |
| So there was somthing special about Excalibur? Or maby Its something abouth the scabbard witch shoud still be in Archers body!? Cuz in UWB he wansn't hit by Saber and he pretty mutch pawned everyone and used the same attack that killed Berserker serveral times. Even al less then 1/10 of his original power. Hardly any magical energy and no master! |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| maybe he wanna to die?? in Ubw Gilgamesh used his noble phantasms to easy kill berserker i think archer can make somethink like that to ...:P to kill berserker of course |
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| Archer was injured by Sabers slash. That is a fact. In the VN he did not use UBW. That is yet another fact. So basically why did he lost: Like I said before...it's not an in story but an out story questin. I'm an RPG admin so I understand this stuff well. When someone is making a story some times he needs something called plot device to make something hapen or prevante something from hapening. Archers death is a plot device of the later. If he lived his story would of been reviled. Now since this was fate and not UBW path that should not happen. So he had to die. Not cuz he would really die if you compare his skills to Berserkers. He needed to die for the sake of the story. I as an rpg admin use such plot devices a lot when I'm forging a story. ( Like I might randomly put a spell ward area against a magic that would make the situation way too easy. I don't put it there cuz it's resonable to be there. It's just there as a plot device. ) To make it short: In Story: He should of won in top form using UBW. He did not cuz of the out story stuff. Out Story: He had to die cuz of a plot device. He had to some how...well you know how. ( I'm not guessing btw. ) |
Revillo_PhoenixNov 23, 2008 6:57 PM
| I still think it had somethig to do with Saber. Oke, after reading the visual novel. I know he didn't kill Illya cuz she was his sister. With 1/10 of his original power he is still stronger then Berserker. Hero's are weak againt things that Killed/hurt them in there lifetime right. So maby Archer died after projecting Excalibur or something and thats why that swing was supper effective. (In heavon's feel all of his Injuries headed exept for saber's attack. In UWB Archer said he coulden't survive projecting Sabers sword) If what Revillo_Phoenix sais is true it would be a plothole. That woulden't be cool.... |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| Shirou projected Caliburn, but it was Saber who actually used it to defeat Archer. |
jorgzimmer said: Shirou projected Caliburn, but it was Saber who actually used it to defeat Archer. ummm don't you mean berserker? |
| I just thought about something. If Archer wasn't able to use Unlimited Blade Works in Fate? After all, Shirou's affinity for swords is due to Excalibur's sheath. If Shirou gives it back to Saber, he keeps his talent, but maybe it was required for UBW? Because I can't imagine Archer lose if he succeed to trap Berserker in his Reality Marble. And even if Emiya Shirou and Heroic Spirit Emiya are different, the two are really different only in UBW: In Fate, Emiya doesn't know him too well to change his destiny, and in Heaven's Feel, Archer isn't too different of Shirou: His comments about the shadow makes me think that both Shirou and Archer had a similar fate in HF. So I think that there are a Fate Archer, a UBW Archer, and a last one (more different), a HF Archer. |
Akinori said: That makes a lot of sence. Thx for your input but i don't think we will ever find out why the freaking hell Archer lost to Berserker.I just thought about something. If Archer wasn't able to use Unlimited Blade Works in Fate? After all, Shirou's affinity for swords is due to Excalibur's sheath. If Shirou gives it back to Saber, he keeps his talent, but maybe it was required for UBW? Because I can't imagine Archer lose if he succeed to trap Berserker in his Reality Marble. And even if Emiya Shirou and Heroic Spirit Emiya are different, the two are really different only in UBW: In Fate, Emiya doesn't know him too well to change his destiny, and in Heaven's Feel, Archer isn't too different of Shirou: His comments about the shadow makes me think that both Shirou and Archer had a similar fate in HF. So I think that there are a Fate Archer, a UBW Archer, and a last one (more different), a HF Archer. |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| he was close to defeating berserker. but he had many wounds so he is weak and berserker has many lives too. i think its too difficult for him. >.< just an opinion. ^^ |
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| actually ill put in spoiler tags <.< done =P |
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| So it's settled. Archer is Emiya from the Ilya route =3 (Ilya route= "There's no need to talk about the obvious outcome. Emiya Shirou will turn his mind to steel, and become a Hero of Justice." Bad Ending, according to Mirrormoon forums..) |
| wa?...not....oh wait...if its the bad ending then maybe <.< i havent played in a while....but i forgot about that one...so yah i guess<.< |
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| Well, if it is the Ilya route, it explains why Archer lost to Berserker. He let Ilya win =3 |
| ^ My dear friend. U are right in many way but also very wrong..... Strenght is al Beserker has(HE ALSO HAS VERY HIGH STATS IN EVERYTHING ELSE)... Beserker has no NP except god hand but that's a deffensive one. Berserker has no master support. The most Illiya could do for him is healing but that wouldn't work during batle. If anything having her there was a disatvantage. Not that Archer would make use of it but still. Tracing normal swords is shit fast(K&B).... Caliburn could have been used. Its was only suited for a king but that doesn't mean he can't use it. Shirou used it 2(without saber). Excaliblast is to slow and so is UWB. If Rin had stayed behind he might have retreated. But if anything not having her there gave him more freedom to do as he pleases(not kiling Illiya) But this discussion is kinda over already... |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| In the anime.. Archer had managed to kill Berserker 4 times before getting killed for five times which ended his life as Tohsaka Rin's servant. Berserker has 12 life force stocks, while Archer had only 5. In other words, no matter how Archer fought Berserker, it will result as a defeat because Archer is not the protagonist of the story as that the anime follows the Saber route as opposed to Unlimited Blade Works. If Archer defeated Berserker, the story would drastically change... After all, Archer would be strong enough to beat Castor, Kuzuki-sensei, Assassin, Lancer, Gilgamesh, and Kotomine. That wouldn't make sense then.. In short, Archer lost to Berserker because he is not the protagonist. |
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| @T-h-ORN: Einzberns aren't realy good at offensive magic. Also she felt like Archer was a weak insect compared to Berserker. So I doubt she would do that. Pride and stuff you know how it is... Not that it could have done more than distract Archer at most. @Kira01: In the VN he killed Berserker 6 times. lol I agree that one of the main reasons Archer lost to Berserker was because of plot reasons. And Archer is the protaganist of the story at least an older version of the protagonist from the future and a different dimention... I'm not 100% shure if Archer could beat Lancer & Gilgamesh... Lancer came pretty close to killing him in Both of their fights and nothing can beat a Ea blast... But he would either remain as Rin's loyal servant or go after Shirou or he might even try to get some sweet Saber. XD God Type-Moon should make another Acher route! And I'm still waiting for my Ilya route! |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| Why did Gilgamesh lose to both Saber and Shirou? Because of his arrogance. It was his handicap. Now Archer has a handicap like that too. He desperately tries to hide his identity. Without Illya present I think he could've defeated Berserker. He's able to trace even Excalibur. With one blast he could've ereased Berserker. But he didn't want to kill Illya and didn't want her to witness the true nature of his powers. She may draw parells between him and a certain orange haired guy That's why he uses unique noble phantasms and uses abilities he didn't known for. Other option is if he really lost his memories and he can't use UBW or even use the tracing to summon known weapons. P.S: If I remember well in the VN his wounds were completely healed. |
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willyvereb said: after Illya took archer in in HF she knew pretty mutch everything about him. There is realy no excuse. It's just lol Natsu.Why did Gilgamesh lose to both Saber and Shirou? Because of his arrogance. It was his handicap. Now Archer has a handicap like that too. He desperately tries to hide his identity. Without Illya present I think he could've defeated Berserker. He's able to trace even Excalibur. With one blast he could've ereased Berserker. But he didn't want to kill Illya and didn't want her to witness the true nature of his powers. She may draw parells between him and a certain orange haired guy That's why he uses unique noble phantasms and uses abilities he didn't known for. Other option is if he really lost his memories and he can't use UBW or even use the tracing to summon known weapons. P.S: If I remember well in the VN his wounds were completely healed. |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| And it's how connected with the fate's Archer vs Berserker fight? Of course if Illya takes archer's soul she finds out his secret. |
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| When Shiro asks Rin, if there is a way to save Saber, she refuses to tell him at first until this situation arises. If Archer can kill berserker 6 times, using a few swords at a time, it isn't THAT hard to except that he can kill him 12 times if he used ALL. Also in the visual Novel, there isn't much hype about Berserker being the strongest servant, instead it is implied that Saber at her full potential (Full Mana + Avalon) is. Also it has been implied that Shirou with sufficient mastery of his power would be quite a strong hero (Which is exactly what Archer is). in all honesty, "Lancelot", the Berserker of the 4th war was a lot better than the current one. Archer's grand plan: Become a servant in the 5th war, kill Shirou, dissapear, Rin (Servantless Master) & Saber (Masterless Servant) team uo with the only remaining people they can trust (i.e. each other), they win the war, realise the truth of the Grail, destroy it, Saber decides to stay or leave, Rin goes to the "Clock Tower", Life goes on. Reasons it gets screwed up: Saber is dissapearing (Needs Mana NOW), He CAN'T attack Shirou now as she would die protecting him, only option (Let Shirou charge her up), he knows how things will end up after that, so its more or less pointless staying, he then realises "Man, I guess I'm an idiot afterall, sacrificing my Perfect Plan for the sake of those two" then he probably thinks "They need some time, so while I AM doing THIS, I MIGHT as well put up a good fight & take a few lives to make Rin proud (Which she will never loudly admit) while I'm at it." So he fights Berserker (It wasn't a STAGED fight, he just used an handicap of not using his PROJECTION magic to its fullest, doesn't mean he went easy on Berserker, you don't kill him 6 times & give him a fight of his life while ruining the castle's halls while your at it when you go easy on him.) |
| Same opinion. And adding to that Archer can't use the very prana-consuming abilities like Excalibur's(because of his somewhat limited magic circuits...the max amount he can release in an instant is 270...even if he's a servant). Or his Magic ciruits overloading and he dies. But I guess he had many powerfull weapons, but he wanted Illya alive so he can't use the most devestating ones. And I guess he forgot the details about the Grail War a long time ago...like Berserker's God Hand ability or how powerfull he really is. Afterall Berserker even without the beneficial effects of the Mad Enchantment had A+ strenght and A class agility. With Mad enchantment he probably was the fastest Servant. Even with clever tactics and wide array of weapons Archer is in disadvantage against such a juggernaut at close ranga and indoors. |
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| Also note that Archer's eyes couldn't keep up with Lancer's moves who also has A rank agility... |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| If Archer wanted to win he WOULD have. We should not forget that his greatest advantage was that he was being underestimated, so if he started with an attack that would critically wound Berserker, he could finish the fight before Berserker can recover. Also Archer CAN use Excalibur while Rin is his master. He didn't use it as the whole mansion would come down & Illya would be killed. |
willyvereb said: So if he lost to berserker his goal hiding who he is would have failed...And it's how connected with the fate's Archer vs Berserker fight? Of course if Illya takes archer's soul she finds out his secret. Archer may be able to use Excaliblast but who is to say that would take all of Berserkers lives in one go? You know Archer even doesn't have enough prana to max out Excalibur... Also casting Ex - Calibur's true name take to long just like UWB. In the time he has spoken Berserker would have killed him... Berserker is after all the fastest servant. |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Evilincarnate said: We should not forget that his greatest advantage was that he was being underestimated Since when does Berserker have the mental ability too underestimate someone? Doesn't he just think "RAWR KILL RAWR" throughout the whole fight. Evilincarnate said: so if he started with an attack that would critically wound Berserker, he could finish the fight before Berserker can recover. You mean before Berseker recovers 11 times. And your reasoning would rely on Archer critically wounding Berserker while ignoring his Eye of the Mind (fake). Berserker won't just sit back and take a move that would finish him, his instincts are too strong. And thinking that Berserker wouldn't be able to recover after his resurrection is just ridiculous. Remus_Lupa said: Also casting Ex - Calibur's true name take to long just like UWB. In the time he has spoken Berserker would have killed him... Berserker is after all the fastest servant. More like he would just side step out of the way. |
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Ketuekigami said: Evilincarnate said: We should not forget that his greatest advantage was that he was being underestimated Since when does Berserker have the mental ability too underestimate someone? Doesn't he just think "RAWR KILL RAWR" throughout the whole fight. Evilincarnate said: so if he started with an attack that would critically wound Berserker, he could finish the fight before Berserker can recover. You mean before Berseker recovers 11 times. And your reasoning would rely on Archer critically wounding Berserker while ignoring his Eye of the Mind (fake). Berserker won't just sit back and take a move that would finish him, his instincts are too strong. And thinking that Berserker wouldn't be able to recover after his resurrection is just ridiculous. Remus_Lupa said: Also casting Ex - Calibur's true name take to long just like UWB. In the time he has spoken Berserker would have killed him... Berserker is after all the fastest servant. More like he would just side step out of the way. Unlimited Blade Works need not be Chanted in one go. Also crically injuring, means stuff like melting or chopping off his ligs, such wounds take a few seconds to heal. And as you said Beserker is DUMB. So, Illya does the thinking & the underestimating. Also it takes archer 1 second to call down a rain of Noble Phantasms. If he released it on Illya, he could have killed Beserker the same way as Gilgamesh did. The only reason that Gilgamesh used the chain was because he was too lazy & arrogant to move himself, while Archer can move around & attack Illya, while DUMB old Berserker would end up as swiss chese trying to protect her. The only risk being that Archer might accidentally end up killing Illya if he makes a single miscalculation. |
| You are underestimating Berseker so much it's not even funny... Berserker is unintelligent, but his Eye of the Mind (fake) and previous battle experience are all still available. He didn't survive in the age of gods as one of legend because he's 99% muscle. His instincts are top class especially with his Eye of the Mind (fake), enough so that even without being able to understand a complex plan by Archer, he can counter it when he senses the danger that will happen moments later. Fate/Stay Night said: Eye of the Mind (fake): B Avoidence of danger by sixth sense/instinct That isn't there just for show. It's a contributing factor too Bersekers strength. And Illya doesnt think for them, she just says "kill them Berserker", and he goes all out. Also, Archer doesnt just "call down a rain of Noble Phantasms". He isn't Gilgumesh outside of UBW. He uses each weapon as if he was their master. Meaning his skills in combat would have too be extraordinarily above Berserkers instincts too make up for the difference in stats. But it is obvious that Archer is not god when he picks up a sword, He was still human and that can only take him so far. Evilincarnate said: Also crically injuring, means stuff like melting or chopping off his ligs, such wounds take a few seconds to heal. Since when does Archer have the physical capabilities to do this? He would need a weapon that grants him physical capabilities beyond even Berserker, and if he had such a weapon, the whole battle should have been cake for him. He can't just "do this or that", everything needs to be possible in the scope of the two characters abilities, and this is clearly not possible for Archer. And no, Gilgumesh used Enkidu because it was the only way too stop him. Granted, It was the way that took no effort on his part, but without it Berserker was pushing him back at the start and came inches away from breaking Enkidu at the end. The only reason Berserker didn't win from the get go was because he was protecting Illya. Too be honest, Archer taking more then 2 lives seems unlikely too me. It's funny how Nasu threw out his characters true skills in Fate route in order to move the plot. It's like i say, Against Shirou, Berserker lost to a plot hole. Since it's literally impossible for Caliburn to take that many lives... I guess unless Nasu says so. |
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| Not gonna quote anyone but I assume you all know who i'm talking to sorry for the bad grammer & spelling in advance. Berserker clearly thinks. He just isn't able to act on it most of the time. He wanted to duel Archer for mutch longer... All his Eye of mind (fake) does is tell him wether, he should run, smash block or just charge straight forward... In a battle Berserker vs Gill. The outcome depends on if Gill can kill Berserker before he smashes Gil to bits... Like shown in UWB. Serious Gill vs Berserker. Gill would win anyday... But serious Gil would beat anyone in fate. UWB chant can be done in pieces but then it would just be a simple poem. It's just words used to focus himself on the spell. He can't deploy a little bit of his RM with one line and expand it with each new line. Or do what he did in the anime... That is so uncannon btw. Again I don't think Archer can swordspam Berserker to death. Not without UWB. He might be able to kill him with it one or 2 times with it though. Berserker has no swordskills at all. So I assume that's how Archer killed him 6 times... Also Gil used Enkidu cuz he likes it. He has ton of other things in the GoB that could take out Berserker. Ea & his flying machine are the standard things to note. |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| The conditions of the spell is for him not to chant/say anything else in between, no restrictions against moving as the spell is cast on himself, so wherever he moves the target (Himself) moves along with him. Not to mention, while "Trace on" activates the circuits for level 1 projection (Creation of weapons whose blueprints he remembers, which is quite a lot actually), "I am the bone of my sword" activates further levels of projection & allows him to call forth more & more weapons from UBW with every next line that he chants & on completion of the spell he releases a boundary field within which UBW is called forth into the realm of reality. (i.e. Archer overwrites a portion of reality with his own). Also isn't it going a little far to think Archer's skill/power/intelligence/talents/arsenal is as pathetic as Shirou's. Cuz, while this is Shirou's first time at projection, Archer has worked hard for years & mastered his skills to the extent that he rightfully (fair & square, with no special memories from his future self) obtained his own WORLD. i.e. the "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS". To think Shirou ripped off that technique from his own future self. Also Archer mentions in UBW that seeing "THAT WORLD" should enhance his tracing skills as long as he understands the meaning of his skills. |
EvilincarnateOct 1, 2009 2:38 PM
| True he can move somewhat when chanting for UWB but he does seed to focus on the spell. You can't focus long enough to summon UWB with Berserker who is stronger, faster & Luckeyer than you will ever be. Even for Archer summoning UWB is no cakewalk. Also no implications have been made that Archer has used UWB on Berserker he would if he could.. UWB Shirou + HF Shirou - Plothax = Archer But Archer realy has zero motivation in most of his shown fights (vs Caster, vs Lancer, vs Saber, vs Rider, vs Sasaki, vs True Assasin). He might have been slightly motivated against Rider & His second time against Lancer... He even loses his will to fight when facing Shirou... I have discussed about Fate/Stay Night on serveral forums, seen the anime & completed the game. I think I sorta understand the scope of Archer's power. |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| As said, Archer's greatest problem is he doesn't want to win & he doesn't want Shirou to be killed. HE wants to KILL Shirou HIMSELF to create a Paradox, which the WORLD would fix by ERASING thier EXISTANCE for good. But, Shirou is the Main Charachter, no one can kill him before the end, not even his own future self, who has more than enough power to squash him like a bug. Also, as Archer IS Shirou from the future, it is a given fact that he is at his maximum potential or even beyond when he fights for the sake of something important to him. This happens only once in the game: Archer v/s Shirou. But, he was annoyed as hell to see Shirou's naivate & as such behaved immaturely, taunting Shirou & trying to compete in projection with him rather than take him out with his superior skill. Also he was constantly pressured by Shirou's persistance despite the odds being against him, a trait he had given up after dying & realising that ultimately he had been betrayed by his ideal. |
| No need for the bold stuff. Like I said.. 'I have discussed about Fate/Stay Night on serveral forums, seen the anime & completed the game.' I know where u are comming from. And agree with pretty mutch your whole post but not saiing anything about it is boring. Archer might have fought for the sake of something important to him. Against berserker... I'm not shure if it was said in the VN but Archer is clearly torn in between helping Rin win the war as her Servant and ending his existance as a CG. Against Shirou. Archer was at least 10 times weaker than normal but Shirou was still no match for him. For some reason Shirou's fighting and speech got to him. Jeez if his resolve could be broken as easy as that no wonder he betraid his ideal.. |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Remus_Lupa said: No need for the bold stuff. Like I said.. 'I have discussed about Fate/Stay Night on serveral forums, seen the anime & completed the game.' I know where u are comming from. And agree with pretty mutch your whole post but not saiing anything about it is boring. Archer might have fought for the sake of something important to him. Against berserker... I'm not shure if it was said in the VN but Archer is clearly torn in between helping Rin win the war as her Servant and ending his existance as a CG. Against Shirou. Archer was at least 10 times weaker than normal but Shirou was still no match for him. For some reason Shirou's fighting and speech got to him. Jeez if his resolve could be broken as easy as that no wonder he betraid his ideal.. His resolve wasn't broken. He would have killed himself without a second thought if he believed what he was doing was right. He realised that his actions were wrong & thus decided to give up. (NOTE: From here on it is mostly speculation on my behalf). |
EvilincarnateOct 3, 2009 10:22 AM
| what EvilIncarnate said + : Archer was below the level of Rider in Fate due to" mana leak" He looses to Berserker in "FATE" since Fate's Shiro is to become Archer, that means Archer has more "Continues" in different worlds/time lines, like a "w/e, try again..."I" have to kill ME anyway" btw.... lol at the "I have discussed about Fate/Stay Night on serveral forums, seen the anime & completed the game. I think I sorta understand the scope of Archer's power." hope you dont believe Heracles Berserker is stronger than Emiya Archer. |
| "Got it?this is what it means to kill things" |
| Actually, the reason that Hercules, Medea & Medusa have insane advantages over future parts is that they are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo old & soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo highly exaggerated in the myths that no real being can match their APPARENT feats. Exceptions being: Crimson Moon, Arcueid Brunestud, Zelretch, Primate Murder & ORT. |
| Or you know... Gil! I'm not sure if Gil could take on Herakles (as an Archer) but even then, if he uses EA it's all over. I hope you don't mean Rider with Shinji as a master... Because she sure as hell wouldn't be able to take even half the amount of lives Archer took. Well unless Bellerophon takes a lot of lives. Herakles might even fight better against Rider because he's the great grandson of her killer... The chance of encountering Shirou was astronomical to begin with. Sure there are bad ends (alternate dimensions were Archer kill him) but he didn't know that. In his mind he won't get another chance. He wasn't sure whether it would work like he wanted in the first place. |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Remus_Lupa said: Or you know... Gil! I'm not sure if Gil could take on Herakles (as an Archer) but even then, if he uses EA it's all over. I hope you don't mean Rider with Shinji as a master... Because she sure as hell wouldn't be able to take even half the amount of lives Archer took. Well unless Bellerophon takes a lot of lives. Herakles might even fight better against Rider because he's the great grandson of her killer... The chance of encountering Shirou was astronomical to begin with. Sure there are bad ends (alternate dimensions were Archer kill him) but he didn't know that. In his mind he won't get another chance. He wasn't sure whether it would work like he wanted in the first place. Nine Lives in Archer form is equivalent to "firing ma Lazor" ...literally. Heracles is "the greatest hero of all times" + being hire to Zeuz. Ea would just count 6 lives maybe? even if it where 10 lives, 1 True Nine lives is to defeat any other enemy ( more if a command spell is used and remembering Illya was her master, no mana problems) Evilincarnate said: Actually, the reason that Hercules, Medea & Medusa have insane advantages over future parts is that they are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo old & soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo highly exaggerated in the myths that no real being can match their APPARENT feats. Exceptions being: Crimson Moon, Arcueid Brunestud, Zelretch, Primate Murder & ORT. they should make a BMW 6 |
NasuverseproApr 17, 2010 7:44 AM
| "Got it?this is what it means to kill things" |
| Dear, I don't think you understand how EA works... Gil pulls it and the match is over. It could level the entire world if Gil wanted to use it that way. The amount of lives it would take for Hera's stock is at least 99 though to be fair any number up until 99^9999999999999999... would be justified. Heracles =/= the greatest hero of all time. He's the greatest Greak Hero though Achilles is a close second or even stronger than him. |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Remus_Lupa said: Dear, I don't think you understand how EA works... Gil pulls it and the match is over. It could level the entire world if Gil wanted to use it that way. The amount of lives it would take for Hera's stock is at least 99 though to be fair any number up until 99^9999999999999999... would be justified. Heracles =/= the greatest hero of all time. He's the greatest Greak Hero though Achilles is a close second or even stronger than him. ...Zeuz himself said he was to be the greatest one...dont dare go against god´s will, Era couldnt o.o >.> Nine lives will create more beams if needed depending on the targets, therefore : half of the world = Enuma Elish both halves of the world= NineLives btw....we jumped off topic. time pulling Ea > time unleashing NineLives Rho Aias <=EA ( Gae bolg =?=Ea since single Target gae bolg is more effective than Ea even though it is B rank D: ) yet enough time to recreate UBW and change positions. anyway, we are off topic again, :s Achilles vs Heracles? that would be interesting, though Zeuz wouldnt want that ^_^d |
| "Got it?this is what it means to kill things" |
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