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#1
May 11, 2009 11:07 PM

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well, im just wondering...it says at archer's stat that archer's spirit is emiya...and i saw it too in another forum....how did archer became emiya shirou??

could someone please explain everything to me....because to start off, shirou is not really a hero....and i didnt saw it in the series!!

please explain everything to me....arigatou gozaimasu!!

Modified by Asuno, May 16, 2009 3:35 AM
Do you know where hell is? Inside your head.

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#2
May 15, 2009 4:28 AM

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I'ts not that Archer became Shirou it's more like Archer was one way Shirou could grow up.
Well Shirou isn't a hero but he wants to be one. Archer is like in his mid thirties and Shirou is 18. that leaves Shirou about 16 years to become GAR and make a contract with the world.

Read Archers page on wiki for more details on how Shirou became Archer and well Shirou became Archer in a bad end of heaven's feel. Also known as the Illiya route.... Where Shirou killes Sakura for the sake of pretty mutch everyone in Fuyuki.
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise"
 
#3
May 16, 2009 3:35 AM

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The Emiya Shirou that became Archer isn't the same kind of hero that spirits like Lancer are. He became a Counter Guardian, in exchange for power to save people with.

And Archer being an alternate future version of Shirou isn't revealed in the anime (though it is hinted at), but rather in the visual novel.
 
#4
May 16, 2009 3:12 PM

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Both Archer and Shirou are both the same entities both being the person Emiya Shirou. But both have different fate's. Archer is a Emiya Shirou if another reality that became a Counter Guardian, that ideal which Emiya Shirou wanted to become, the Hero of Justice, like the others said. The Archer that appears in the Grail War, might or might not be the end result of what Emiya Shirou, main male character, will become (of course Heavens Feel Shirou will never become Archer).

Technically the Grail, ever since the Third or Fourth Heavens Feel, i forgot, not only Heroes have been summoned, but also Anti-Heroes or beings that weren't even considered heroes, hence Archer, Rider and Caster which both of them were never Heroes in their respective time lines.





 
#5
May 16, 2009 3:44 PM

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FakerEmiya said:
Both Archer and Shirou are both the same entities both being the person Emiya Shirou. But both have different fate's. Archer is a Emiya Shirou if another reality that became a Counter Guardian, that ideal which Emiya Shirou wanted to become, the Hero of Justice, like the others said. The Archer that appears in the Grail War, might or might not be the end result of what Emiya Shirou, main male character, will become (of course Heavens Feel Shirou will never become Archer).

Technically the Grail, ever since the Third or Fourth Heavens Feel, i forgot, not only Heroes have been summoned, but also Anti-Heroes or beings that weren't even considered heroes, hence Archer, Rider and Caster which both of them were never Heroes in their respective time lines.
Lol! HF Shirou becomes Archer if you choose to kill Sakura. MIND OF STEEL END aka the Illya route that Natsu didn't give us!

In the anime it was hinted that Archer is Shirou cuz of the pendant. That stays behind when Berserker kill's him. That was the same pendant that Rin used to save his life before he became a master!
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise"
 
 
#6
May 25, 2009 3:47 AM

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Hmm. You say that HF Mind of Steel Shirou becomes Archer but I doubt that's true. That version of Emiya Shirou seems even emptier then Archer. The Shirou that became Archer would be more like Fate Shirou, I believe.
 
#7
May 25, 2009 9:08 AM

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Enjou said:
Hmm. You say that HF Mind of Steel Shirou becomes Archer but I doubt that's true. That version of Emiya Shirou seems even emptier then Archer. The Shirou that became Archer would be more like Fate Shirou, I believe.
What makes you think that?

Nah, Acher isn't empty. He is full of Gar!
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise"
 
#8
May 27, 2009 7:38 AM

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Eh, it was just the impression I always got.
 
#9
Jun 18, 2009 4:32 AM

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w8 w8 im getting confused now with all the words that u all been muttering: GAR, heaven feels.....whats that??
Do you know where hell is? Inside your head.

Put your wishes into the memories you do not want to forget.


 
Jun 21, 2009 8:47 PM

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Archer is in neither route. No route of shirou leads to archer in the game. Archer was Shirou once but the Shirou we know will not be Archer. ( One of the great factors that made this is that when Archer was Shirou the Archer class servant was not him but a different Archer. )
 
Jun 23, 2009 11:55 AM

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jellabee said:
w8 w8 im getting confused now with all the words that u all been muttering: GAR, heaven feels.....whats that??
newfag... GAR means so manly it makes your manlyness disapear. Heaven's Feel is the true name of the holy grail war. Not knowing this means you must play the VN. It is also the last route in the VN...

Revillo_Phoenix said:
Archer is in neither route. No route of shirou leads to archer in the game. Archer was Shirou once but the Shirou we know will not be Archer. ( One of the great factors that made this is that when Archer was Shirou the Archer class servant was not him but a different Archer. )
We don't know that for shure. Archer had pretty mutch forgotten everything about his past life... And hardly metion his own experiances in the grail war. He did however have a great deal of knowlage of all the other servants(could have been because he can identify every weapon but still) and he was saved by Rin in the same way Shirou(after the fight between Lancer and Archer) was but never found out that it was her who saved him..
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise"
 
Jul 15, 2009 6:01 PM

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Perhaps, it is because Archer became Tohsaka Rin's servant which prevented Shiro from becoming Archer in the future as that Archer did not tried to kill Shiro when he had multiple opportunities but instead.. Archer gave advices to him, making Shiro stronger which will also in turn prevent him from becoming Archer in the future. Archer obviously had never created the sword of Avalon as that Archer's path was different. It was because of Archer that Shiro created the Avalon and also the blade of Caliburn which destroyed the legendary Heracles, Berserker.

Generally, both Archer and Shiro are one and the same entity known as Emiya Shiro. Archer hosts the spirit of Shiro and became Rin's servant because of the same jem which Rin used to summon Saber which was also the jem inside of Archer as that it was used to save Shiro when he was killed by Lancer. As the Counter Guardian, Archer created a time loop which also in turns changes the fate of Emiya Shiro meaning that regardless of the path he chooses, he will never become Archer in the future.

In other words, to answer you question.. Shiro never became Archer. Instead, it is Archer who was once Emiya Shiro but he became the true hero of justice which Shiro will never become due to various reasons.
 
Jul 20, 2009 3:36 PM

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Archer most likely still has avalon in him. But he at least knows of it's existance in Shirou. Also Shirou had dreams about Saber's past in witch he saw Caliburn. I see no reason why Archer woudn't have seen those. Unless he lost Saber early on like in HF, or if his was having wet dreams about Archer like he did in UWB? Or did Rin dream those? It isn't realy clear....

If you are correct about Rin summoning Saber the most likely servant for Rin to have summond is either Ajax or Achilles(both used Rho Aias in life). That's pretty badass. Or Archer still has the NP's he has seen as a CG or Gil has it somewhere in his GoB but I doubt he would need to take a thing like that out since he has Ea!

Also mind of steel end disagrees that Shirou can and will become a hero of justice...
Also Archers original plan was to kill himself by killing Shirou(time paradox). Now that I think of it Archer's end result is what Saber originally wanted. To change the past....

He pawns so freaking hard!
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise"
 
Aug 3, 2009 3:03 PM

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Well, we don't know much about EMIYA(Archer) in the holy grail war, but his path was a quite tragic one even in that. Probably almost everyone died. Somehow like that(speculation):


The above thing contains some VN (Visual Novel...the original game) spoilers so read it with caution.
'God'(Nasu) stated there's not a single ending where Shirou could become Archer(perhaps the real endings, not the 40 bad ends:p). The main reason maybe his luck and his positive thinking.
In the so called "Mind of Steel" ending he becomes the "shadow of Kirigitsu". So he will be more like him. Cold, calculating, sees people as numbers(saving 10 person is better than saving one...regaldless who he/she is) and experiences love as torment.
 
Sep 29, 2009 12:06 PM

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Two important facts:
1) In Archer's past Rin probably had a different servant. It is mentioned that Archer bets everything on the 1 in a million probability that HE may be summoned in the war. If Rin's sevant in his past was the same, there wouldn't be much to bet on in the first place would it?
2) In Archer's recollection they maention that there is one person he can call his lover, if Rin & Sakura died, Saber returned & Illya Expired, then who the hell is that?
 
Sep 29, 2009 2:45 PM

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I don't know...but if that was either of them I bet it was maybe Rin. But it's still a speculation. I changed my opinion after I analysed the Heroic Spirits a bit more.
Archer knows about the situation because he is a Heroic Spirit, not because he experienced this in his life. And perhaps it's sure Archer formed an even closer relationship with Illya Shirou had in any of the routes. And because Zouken did nothing special Sakura remained a mistery...I guess Archer probably even forgot her. That's why he wasn't all that surprised in HF about Sakura. Afterall he had little emotional connection to her if anything at all. But I still think the greatest difference between him and Shirou is their luck. Shirou had insane amounts while Archer had even less than an average person.
 
Sep 30, 2009 2:17 PM

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True Archer has shit luck... E rank if I remember correctly.
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise"
 
Apr 16, 2010 5:06 PM

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Remus_Lupa said:
True Archer has shit luck... E rank if I remember correctly.


thats why he practically uses real "Sorcery", ... or "MIRACLE" ... luck is not something needed, calculation is used ( like Sion )
"Got it?this is what it means to kill things"
 
May 17, 2010 9:07 PM

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reference: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/921327-fate-stay-night/52815141

...I think it has to be on the 4th route...(Ilya)
Modified by Cashdax, May 17, 2010 9:13 PM
"Your taste is shit cause you like what I hate. Believe me I have 1000 cartoons that I rated with less than 5."


 
May 18, 2010 2:27 AM

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We will never get a Ilya route ;_;
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise"
 
May 19, 2010 11:30 AM

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anyway.
Fate Shirou is the one who could become Archer.
UBW Shirou could become arrchre...but with a very low chance-
HF Shirou will definitely NOT become Archer

...no bad ends counted*

Archer is from another reality/dimension, so we cannot take both Emiya's as the "same" one.

Emiya's Love could've been Taiga or one of the archery club.


Remus, too bad dude, u wont have Illya route, but i have Len route :)
"Got it?this is what it means to kill things"
 
May 19, 2010 10:33 PM

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shut up with that no illya but there ren route, seriously
Dude.... what is seriously wrong with you and that fucking fandom to shiki being superior to all and his nanaya gland -_-

 
May 29, 2010 9:35 PM

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il lget u banned if u keep that stuff MangekyouX :/

( i keed , wont keed in real life, i am your sempai )
"Got it?this is what it means to kill things"
 
Jul 12, 2010 4:28 AM

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shiro is archer but archer is also gilgamesh but gilgamesh uses the gate of babylon different from archer

 
Jul 12, 2010 4:44 AM

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and gilgamesh is also arcueid's male-self and arcueid is an 'heir' of the crimson moon and the crimson moon is an alien
 
Aug 25, 2010 4:56 PM

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Shirou becomes archer in fate route.
Because he had Avalon extracted from his body, making him
unable to regenerate melanin in his body fast enough making his complexion dark and white hair. It was also stated that archer was betrayed by his "lover" and the only possible route for that is fate route since he lost Saber in fate and he got to stay w/ a girl on the 2 other routes or die and they will most likely not betray him.

The heaven's feel mind of steel bad end cannot satisfy the 2 first reasons.
 
Oct 24, 2010 8:06 AM

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Kibikun said:
Shirou becomes archer in fate route.
Because he had Avalon extracted from his body, making him
unable to regenerate melanin in his body fast enough making his complexion dark and white hair. It was also stated that archer was betrayed by his "lover" and the only possible route for that is fate route since he lost Saber in fate and he got to stay w/ a girl on the 2 other routes or die and they will most likely not betray him.

The heaven's feel mind of steel bad end cannot satisfy the 2 first reasons.

Shirou becomes Archer in none of the routes in Fate/stay night >_>
 
Nov 1, 2010 4:40 AM

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did anyone knew that archer is emiya besidesarcher?
 
Jun 16, 2011 12:33 PM

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lol troll
 
Feb 5, 2012 9:13 PM

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Bump!

Shirou in all Fate/Stay night routes will never become Archer- Nasu said.

Fate UC hinted Archer didn't remember that Rin summoned Archer (Emiya) before or Rin summoned a different servant. But what's verified is that Rin saved Shirou/Archer using the pendant and Archer knew about it (or learns about it).

Hypothetically this would have happened:


But my version would be:
1. Shirou summoned Saber but Rin stole her from Shirou and Rin removes his memory of the Grail War.
2. Which explains that Archer (Emiya) doesn't remember that Rin summoned him despite seeing him at the school (Lancer vs Archer)
3. Archer was defeated very early, that's why Rin needed a new servant.
4. Rin, Sakura and most people Shirou knew were killed.
5. Shirou made a contract with world by the end of the Grail War. Archer/Shirou loses luck due karmic result.
 
Dec 22, 2012 12:48 PM
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EMIYA is Shirõ, but Shirõ isn't EMIYA...
The real route to become the Heoric Spirit EMIYA is Heaven's Feel, choosing kill Sakura...
Rin summon another Archer Servant, but, at the edn of the war, her Servant is Gilgamesh, rescued by the alliance Emiya, Tohsaka Ilya after Saber and Berseker was taken for the Black Grial... for this reason, EMIYA have a lot of Noble Phantasm that only exist inside of the Gate Of Babylon...
Second, all except Emiya died in the 5 Heven's Fell...
He kill Alter Saber (that's why he isn't nervius in the firsth round when he and Arturia fight in the Kotomine Kurch, before he needs use UBW to stay alive in that fight)
Sakura fight against Rin and Gilgamesh... but she was more that they can do, so, they are deafeted by Dark Sakura... or they are close, when Shirou appears and, in a combination with the gate of Babylon, their atack Dark Sakura and give her enough damege to give a chance to Rin to kill The Shadow... but Rider kill Rin, and, becouse this Tohsaka kill Sakura, not the Shadow... that permits than a half completed Angra Manyu appears in oru World, and the King of Heros prove why he's was the first hero in the history... given a Emiya a present before he's died... this scenario is something that I think happens in the 5 Holy Grail War, becuse one part of EMIYA costume is to close to one that use Gilgamesh, second, he can be seem very afected by the words taht Gilgamesh use to refer him, as a "Faker", proving he's admiration for this hero...
Other point... I'm not sure abut his lover... but maybe could be Luviagellita or Caren Ortenshia... Ilya meaybe died or live with Shirõ for a short time, before the Einzbern do somthing agaisnt the guy that disbanish their plans whit the grial...
Returnen to EMIYA, he obtein the Shroud of Martin from Ciel, that told us that EMIYA maybe fight against the True Ancestors (causing that Arcueid needs to interfere in this mess, becuse EMIYA using a lot of Noble Phantasm that he's seen in the Gate of Babylon, and he's have now he's eye of mind, that give him the ability and the power to defeat any Death Apostle that interfire in hi's way to be a Hero.
After that, he and his frind (mention in Extra) became an Ally of Justice, and do a seme job that Kiritsugu did (here could be another good point to introduce a llover, or only a parner that never was correspond by EMIYA).
Doing this, EMIYA get involve in a war, a huge one, that he's finished.
To do this, he make a deal with Gaia, to obtein a power that he never dream to stop the war.
But he was betryed by one of the pople that he save or (taht is mentioned in Extra) by his frind (in this point I think that the son of bitch that is mention here was Shinji, how could this bastard survive the 5 Heven's Feel, I don't know, but I'm sure that this bastard do this).
For this reason he's executed. In this moment, Gaia, give to EMIYA a vision of his inner world.
Stating in this moment, Emiya Shirõ stop to exist as an entity and become to exist as a Counter Guardian, from the Counter Force taht sirves to Alaya to protect the humanity from the self destruction.
But, this actions oppose directly with his ideals... tha's why he obtain this personality.
From this point, he's wants rerutn in the time and kill himself to stop to be a Counter Guardian...
but hi's chances are really low...
well, he's luck ins't bad enugh to made it, right?
in this point start F/SN... so, with this you can see that the Heroic Spirit EMIYA in fact was a Emiya Shirõ from another reality... in other words no is the protagonist taht we know in the Novel, anime, etc, but, at teh same time, is the same person... is like we encounter whit ourselves but our other self have 5 or 7 years younger than us
 
Jul 9, 2013 7:01 PM

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What I find amazing is that Emiya, basically a completely normal person with no linage whatsoever, managed to even become a counter guardian, much less a heroic spirit.
Mind of Steel ending consists of Shirou being Kiritsugu.... ring a bell, anyone?
So unlike any other Shirous, Archer is the only one who gave his all to become an Ally of Justice. If anything is accurate, a similar ending to 'Mind of Steel' ending of HF's bad end would end this discussion.
His lover and betrayal is another story.

 
Aug 25, 2015 6:26 PM
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thanks guys the show is taking way to long to say that archer is shirou and i finally could not stand waiting for it to reveal it
 
Sep 8, 2015 10:02 PM
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Jellabee, you would've figured everything out without asking us if you didn't slack off (not trying to be mean, just telling the truth).I read everyone's comment and some of them are correct, but some of them aren't literally answering your question, so I will try to (Mine is long because i am fascinated by Shirou & Archer so much that I'm actually studying on him and even understood what Archer was saying to Shirou. For you to catch up with us a bit, it will be neccessary for you to know (maybe even all of) this. I will be answering how shirou became archer, why archer wants to kill shirou, and one more thing is that UBW has a more understanding story because it focuses more on shirou and archer (a bit of saber as well i guess) I'd recommend watching UBW Season 2. If you don't want to read my story then i'll post links for you at the bottom to have a fair amount of understanding Archer.

Oh and btw, Archer is neither a swordsman nor a bow user, he is a Magician. Archer said it so himself, literally. Oh And one question I have is "why don't you know HF,UBW,fate zero, or whatever it is that you don't know?"

Emiya Shirou got his ideals of wanting to be a "Hero of Justice" by Kiritsugu. Shirou knows that Kiritsugu can't continue his own goal, so instead, Shirou will inheret Kiritsugu's goal (this makes Kiritsugu's goal become Shirou's goal LITERALLY), so Kiritsugu taught enhance and projectile magic to Shirou after he was begged many times. Shirou was so selfless that even his friend at school (glasses, blue hair) and a couple of others realized this was sort of a problem. (trust me, you need to know this information before anything else)

Archer is one of the many future possibilities that Shirou could've become, not necessarily his ONE AND ONLY future route. Archer is the true ideal of Shirou, meaning the closest man out of all of his possible future selves that fit the category "Hero of Justice".

Later in the future, Shirou actually does save many people, but he realized that he couldn't save a lot of people when he was alive, so before his death he (somehow, there's no ACTUAL reason) made a contract with the world/earth to become a counter guardian/ guardian of the earth after he dies so that he can be summoned to dispose of any human that would bring the earth to it's own destruction.

When he was alive, he helped SO many people, he saved SO many people, but he was also betrayed by SO many people (No, seriously, this isn't even a joke). Archer said that in the ending, he was not only betrayed by a lot of people, but EVEN his own ideals/goals of being a "hero of justice".

Archer prayed many many times to become a heroic spirit and go to his era from before he got so strong which leads to Emiya Shirou. Archer tried killing Shirou a couple of times so that Shirou doesn't cause the same mistake and so that he can erase himself as well.(You're probably thinking "What, Why?") well that's because he wants to put a stop to Shirou from EVER reaching the same (or even close to the same) ending as him.

Archer's quote:
"I am the bone of my sword.
Steel is my body, and fire is my blood.
I have created over a thousand blades.
Unknown to death.
Nor known to life.
Have withstood pain to create many weapons.
Yet, those hands will never hold anything.
So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."
these are Archer's cursed words learned by the Earth he made a contract with, allowing him to be stronger and enhance his magic when he uses Rhio Aias (his magic, purple shield) or any other abilities of his.

IF you bothered to even read all of this, then thank you~.

NOW HERE IS YOUR TRUE ANSWER.
Emiya Shirou inherited his dream from Kiritsugu, then lived a normal life after learning magic from Kiritsugu. WAY AFTER the 5th Holy Grail War was over, Shirou helped others, went to wars (apparently), was betrayed by many people, found the earth's power and made the contract, becoming a counter gaurdian after his death. Before he died, he had realized his ideal of being a "Hero of Justice" was a naive dream. When he died he killed humans when the earth needed his assistance to help preserve the earth before it was on the path to destruction. Archer found this as an endless loop time after time, and didn't like this either. He prayed to meet Shirou (his past self) from before shirou was anywhere near Strong. His wish was granted, but at the ending he hesitated on killing Shirou, allowing Shirou to stab him when he could've just killed Shirou right there. He then promised Rin to take care of Shirou and somewhat lead him to a different path, if possible.

links:
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Archer_(Fate/stay_night)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aILRGZDB06g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jliNbqNdrcA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jliNbqNdrcA
https://www.facebook.com/KaroshiMyriad/videos/965616986794415/

Oh and also,don't ask us if your not going to try and understand it yourself. just a heads up.
Modified by Emiya_Avenger, Sep 10, 2015 7:06 PM
 
Dec 3, 2015 9:34 PM
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Its possible that archer may be the shirou emiya of the first fate stay night where he fell in love with saber.
 
Oct 8, 2016 9:58 PM
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well on an unrelated note there are 3 servants whom were alive {not yet servants} around fate zero and fate stay night although 1 of whom are from alternate universe 2 of whom were are versions of Shirou {archer and ruler classes} as well as kiritsugu who became an assassin plus to alternate universe Shirou was not Shirou emiya but instead Shirou kotomine plus he was instead master of assassins of red. and as a final side note there is limited/zero over Shirou wich is his full mage potential
 
May 9, 2019 6:14 PM
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Shirou does not become EMIYA in any of the routes as stated by Nasu himself and he even said the chances of Shirou from any of the three routes is pretty much Shirou. EMIYA's route is shrouded in mystery, but we know in that route the Archer of EMIYA's Holy Grail War had to be some other Heroic Spirit, and that the Shirou of EMIYA's route never pursued any romantic interest. He still had a crush on Rin in high school and thought Saber was gorgeous when he summoned her, but he never pursued romance. He did nothing but chase after his ideal, pushing everyone away until he was alone. The Shirou of all 3 routes always had someone. Saber, Rin, or Sakura. Even the mind of steel Shirou wouldn't become EMIYA. EMIYA didn't kill those he loved he pushed them away. I think that Shirou would be the closest to becoming Nameless from the Moon Cell, or he would be just like Kiritsugu
 
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