| well, im just wondering...it says at archer's stat that archer's spirit is emiya...and i saw it too in another forum....how did archer became emiya shirou?? could someone please explain everything to me....because to start off, shirou is not really a hero....and i didnt saw it in the series!! please explain everything to me....arigatou gozaimasu!! |
AsunoMay 16, 2009 3:35 AM
Do you know where hell is? Inside your head.  Put your wishes into the memories you do not want to forget. |
| I'ts not that Archer became Shirou it's more like Archer was one way Shirou could grow up. Well Shirou isn't a hero but he wants to be one. Archer is like in his mid thirties and Shirou is 18. that leaves Shirou about 16 years to become GAR and make a contract with the world. Read Archers page on wiki for more details on how Shirou became Archer and well Shirou became Archer in a bad end of heaven's feel. Also known as the Illiya route.... Where Shirou killes Sakura for the sake of pretty mutch everyone in Fuyuki. |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| The Emiya Shirou that became Archer isn't the same kind of hero that spirits like Lancer are. He became a Counter Guardian, in exchange for power to save people with. And Archer being an alternate future version of Shirou isn't revealed in the anime (though it is hinted at), but rather in the visual novel. |
| Both Archer and Shirou are both the same entities both being the person Emiya Shirou. But both have different fate's. Archer is a Emiya Shirou if another reality that became a Counter Guardian, that ideal which Emiya Shirou wanted to become, the Hero of Justice, like the others said. The Archer that appears in the Grail War, might or might not be the end result of what Emiya Shirou, main male character, will become (of course Heavens Feel Shirou will never become Archer). Technically the Grail, ever since the Third or Fourth Heavens Feel, i forgot, not only Heroes have been summoned, but also Anti-Heroes or beings that weren't even considered heroes, hence Archer, Rider and Caster which both of them were never Heroes in their respective time lines. |
FakerEmiya said: Lol! HF Shirou becomes Archer if you choose to kill Sakura. MIND OF STEEL END aka the Illya route that Natsu didn't give us!Both Archer and Shirou are both the same entities both being the person Emiya Shirou. But both have different fate's. Archer is a Emiya Shirou if another reality that became a Counter Guardian, that ideal which Emiya Shirou wanted to become, the Hero of Justice, like the others said. The Archer that appears in the Grail War, might or might not be the end result of what Emiya Shirou, main male character, will become (of course Heavens Feel Shirou will never become Archer). Technically the Grail, ever since the Third or Fourth Heavens Feel, i forgot, not only Heroes have been summoned, but also Anti-Heroes or beings that weren't even considered heroes, hence Archer, Rider and Caster which both of them were never Heroes in their respective time lines. In the anime it was hinted that Archer is Shirou cuz of the pendant. That stays behind when Berserker kill's him. That was the same pendant that Rin used to save his life before he became a master! |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| Hmm. You say that HF Mind of Steel Shirou becomes Archer but I doubt that's true. That version of Emiya Shirou seems even emptier then Archer. The Shirou that became Archer would be more like Fate Shirou, I believe. |
Enjou said: What makes you think that?Hmm. You say that HF Mind of Steel Shirou becomes Archer but I doubt that's true. That version of Emiya Shirou seems even emptier then Archer. The Shirou that became Archer would be more like Fate Shirou, I believe. Nah, Acher isn't empty. He is full of Gar! |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| Eh, it was just the impression I always got. |
| w8 w8 im getting confused now with all the words that u all been muttering: GAR, heaven feels.....whats that?? |
Do you know where hell is? Inside your head. Put your wishes into the memories you do not want to forget. |
| Archer is in neither route. No route of shirou leads to archer in the game. Archer was Shirou once but the Shirou we know will not be Archer. ( One of the great factors that made this is that when Archer was Shirou the Archer class servant was not him but a different Archer. ) |
jellabee said: newfag... GAR means so manly it makes your manlyness disapear. Heaven's Feel is the true name of the holy grail war. Not knowing this means you must play the VN. It is also the last route in the VN...w8 w8 im getting confused now with all the words that u all been muttering: GAR, heaven feels.....whats that?? Revillo_Phoenix said: We don't know that for shure. Archer had pretty mutch forgotten everything about his past life... And hardly metion his own experiances in the grail war. He did however have a great deal of knowlage of all the other servants(could have been because he can identify every weapon but still) and he was saved by Rin in the same way Shirou(after the fight between Lancer and Archer) was but never found out that it was her who saved him..Archer is in neither route. No route of shirou leads to archer in the game. Archer was Shirou once but the Shirou we know will not be Archer. ( One of the great factors that made this is that when Archer was Shirou the Archer class servant was not him but a different Archer. ) |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| Perhaps, it is because Archer became Tohsaka Rin's servant which prevented Shiro from becoming Archer in the future as that Archer did not tried to kill Shiro when he had multiple opportunities but instead.. Archer gave advices to him, making Shiro stronger which will also in turn prevent him from becoming Archer in the future. Archer obviously had never created the sword of Avalon as that Archer's path was different. It was because of Archer that Shiro created the Avalon and also the blade of Caliburn which destroyed the legendary Heracles, Berserker. Generally, both Archer and Shiro are one and the same entity known as Emiya Shiro. Archer hosts the spirit of Shiro and became Rin's servant because of the same jem which Rin used to summon Saber which was also the jem inside of Archer as that it was used to save Shiro when he was killed by Lancer. As the Counter Guardian, Archer created a time loop which also in turns changes the fate of Emiya Shiro meaning that regardless of the path he chooses, he will never become Archer in the future. In other words, to answer you question.. Shiro never became Archer. Instead, it is Archer who was once Emiya Shiro but he became the true hero of justice which Shiro will never become due to various reasons. |
 |
| Archer most likely still has avalon in him. But he at least knows of it's existance in Shirou. Also Shirou had dreams about Saber's past in witch he saw Caliburn. I see no reason why Archer woudn't have seen those. Unless he lost Saber early on like in HF, or if his was having wet dreams about Archer like he did in UWB? Or did Rin dream those? It isn't realy clear.... If you are correct about Rin summoning Saber the most likely servant for Rin to have summond is either Ajax or Achilles(both used Rho Aias in life). That's pretty badass. Or Archer still has the NP's he has seen as a CG or Gil has it somewhere in his GoB but I doubt he would need to take a thing like that out since he has Ea! Also mind of steel end disagrees that Shirou can and will become a hero of justice... Also Archers original plan was to kill himself by killing Shirou(time paradox). Now that I think of it Archer's end result is what Saber originally wanted. To change the past.... He pawns so freaking hard! |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| Well, we don't know much about EMIYA(Archer) in the holy grail war, but his path was a quite tragic one even in that. Probably almost everyone died. Somehow like that(speculation): The above thing contains some VN (Visual Novel...the original game) spoilers so read it with caution. 'God'(Nasu) stated there's not a single ending where Shirou could become Archer(perhaps the real endings, not the 40 bad ends:p). The main reason maybe his luck and his positive thinking. In the so called "Mind of Steel" ending he becomes the "shadow of Kirigitsu". So he will be more like him. Cold, calculating, sees people as numbers(saving 10 person is better than saving one...regaldless who he/she is) and experiences love as torment. |
 |
| Two important facts: 1) In Archer's past Rin probably had a different servant. It is mentioned that Archer bets everything on the 1 in a million probability that HE may be summoned in the war. If Rin's sevant in his past was the same, there wouldn't be much to bet on in the first place would it? 2) In Archer's recollection they maention that there is one person he can call his lover, if Rin & Sakura died, Saber returned & Illya Expired, then who the hell is that? |
| I don't know...but if that was either of them I bet it was maybe Rin. But it's still a speculation. I changed my opinion after I analysed the Heroic Spirits a bit more. Archer knows about the situation because he is a Heroic Spirit, not because he experienced this in his life. And perhaps it's sure Archer formed an even closer relationship with Illya Shirou had in any of the routes. And because Zouken did nothing special Sakura remained a mistery...I guess Archer probably even forgot her. That's why he wasn't all that surprised in HF about Sakura. Afterall he had little emotional connection to her if anything at all. But I still think the greatest difference between him and Shirou is their luck. Shirou had insane amounts while Archer had even less than an average person. |
| |
| True Archer has shit luck... E rank if I remember correctly. |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Remus_Lupa said: True Archer has shit luck... E rank if I remember correctly. thats why he practically uses real "Sorcery", ... or "MIRACLE" ... luck is not something needed, calculation is used ( like Sion ) |
| "Got it?this is what it means to kill things" |
| reference: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/921327-fate-stay-night/52815141 ...I think it has to be on the 4th route...(Ilya) |
CashdaxMay 17, 2010 9:13 PM
"Your taste is shit cause you like what I hate. Believe me I have 1000 cartoons that I rated with less than 5."  |
| We will never get a Ilya route ;_; |
| "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
| anyway. Fate Shirou is the one who could become Archer. UBW Shirou could become arrchre...but with a very low chance- HF Shirou will definitely NOT become Archer ...no bad ends counted* Archer is from another reality/dimension, so we cannot take both Emiya's as the "same" one. Emiya's Love could've been Taiga or one of the archery club. Remus, too bad dude, u wont have Illya route, but i have Len route :) |
| "Got it?this is what it means to kill things" |
| shut up with that no illya but there ren route, seriously Dude.... what is seriously wrong with you and that fucking fandom to shiki being superior to all and his nanaya gland -_- |
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| il lget u banned if u keep that stuff MangekyouX :/ ( i keed , wont keed in real life, i am your sempai ) |
| "Got it?this is what it means to kill things" |
| shiro is archer but archer is also gilgamesh but gilgamesh uses the gate of babylon different from archer |
| and gilgamesh is also arcueid's male-self and arcueid is an 'heir' of the crimson moon and the crimson moon is an alien |
| Shirou becomes archer in fate route. Because he had Avalon extracted from his body, making him unable to regenerate melanin in his body fast enough making his complexion dark and white hair. It was also stated that archer was betrayed by his "lover" and the only possible route for that is fate route since he lost Saber in fate and he got to stay w/ a girl on the 2 other routes or die and they will most likely not betray him. The heaven's feel mind of steel bad end cannot satisfy the 2 first reasons. |
Kibikun said: Shirou becomes archer in fate route. Because he had Avalon extracted from his body, making him unable to regenerate melanin in his body fast enough making his complexion dark and white hair. It was also stated that archer was betrayed by his "lover" and the only possible route for that is fate route since he lost Saber in fate and he got to stay w/ a girl on the 2 other routes or die and they will most likely not betray him. The heaven's feel mind of steel bad end cannot satisfy the 2 first reasons. Shirou becomes Archer in none of the routes in Fate/stay night >_> |
| did anyone knew that archer is emiya besidesarcher? |
 |
| lol troll |
| Bump! Shirou in all Fate/Stay night routes will never become Archer- Nasu said. Fate UC hinted Archer didn't remember that Rin summoned Archer (Emiya) before or Rin summoned a different servant. But what's verified is that Rin saved Shirou/Archer using the pendant and Archer knew about it (or learns about it). Hypothetically this would have happened: But my version would be: 1. Shirou summoned Saber but Rin stole her from Shirou and Rin removes his memory of the Grail War. 2. Which explains that Archer (Emiya) doesn't remember that Rin summoned him despite seeing him at the school (Lancer vs Archer) 3. Archer was defeated very early, that's why Rin needed a new servant. 4. Rin, Sakura and most people Shirou knew were killed. 5. Shirou made a contract with world by the end of the Grail War. Archer/Shirou loses luck due karmic result. |
| What I find amazing is that Emiya, basically a completely normal person with no linage whatsoever, managed to even become a counter guardian, much less a heroic spirit. Mind of Steel ending consists of Shirou being Kiritsugu.... ring a bell, anyone? So unlike any other Shirous, Archer is the only one who gave his all to become an Ally of Justice. If anything is accurate, a similar ending to 'Mind of Steel' ending of HF's bad end would end this discussion. His lover and betrayal is another story. |
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