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#1
Aug 5, 2010 6:16 PM

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Because Tokyo Majin is a rather large franchise, and the anime especially left a lot of loose ends and open-ended stories, I figured I would start a thread for us all to post our ponderings and questions.

I'll start with something pretty basic: At the end of season two, Raito Umon says something quite curious. In his final scene, he tells Rasetsu to watch over his guitar, and that he'd be "on tour" for awhile longer.

Here is his parting harmony shot:



I guess he knows, too, the battle isn't over... but where do you suppose he felt compelled to go? I assumed he left Tokyo to find Tatsuma, because throughout the series he seemed thoughtfully mindful of the softness in Tatsuma, and the boy's willingness to protect, not kill. Although I must say, the crow makes it look rather malicious... Opinions?
Modified by hlwar, Jan 8, 2011 3:50 PM
 
#2
Aug 5, 2010 6:32 PM

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I was wondering if anybody had any theories on Maria Alucard's back-story? Hers was always kinda confusing, and pointless in the grand scheme of the show. I was thinking since most of the characters in Kenpuchou are descendants of those in the Gehouchou videogame, is it possible she is related or based on Miuyu Hinokami? I read Miuyu gets possessed by a spirit, called Pucelle, claiming to be Joan of Arc. Alucard-sensei is shown to have a European aristocrat background, and she always wears a cross necklace, so...

Here are screen captures that I'm basing my reasoning on. Be forewarned, it gets graphic behind the button:
Modified by hlwar, Mar 15, 2011 11:24 PM
 
#3
Aug 5, 2010 6:58 PM

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Oh, here's something fun! In the Gakkyuu Nisshi radio dramas, there is a track called Claire - Strawberries and Ramen and You in which Marie Claire has a dream that she's a poor, struggling single girl with a lot of misfortune. Her savior is of course Tatsuma. However, she does not understand a single word he says, so Claire dubs him her "Strawberry Prince" (Ichigo no Oujisama).

Why does she not understand him? Because he is speaking Korean! I watch Korean movies and saeguk (historical) TV dramas, but it took me awhile to pick up on the language change since darling seiyuu Hiro Shimono isn't that good with it. Finally though I heard him greet Claire, in which Tatsuma says in a sing-song way: 안녕하세요~ (Annyeong haseyo~)

Now I had seen a Japanese review for this drama before I heard it myself, and at the time I was baffled because the reviewer mentioned South Korean heart-throb Bae Yong-joon (or Yon-sama as his Japanese fans call him). Putting this altogether, I recalled this teacher at Magami Academy:



Does he not remind you of Bae Yong-joon from Winter Sonata? So crazy! Is there some kind of inside joke going on? o_O
 
#4
Aug 11, 2010 4:14 PM

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Does anybody know if Chaos is featured in the videogame? I don't remember reading about such a character, but if he is, what's his role?

He is in the manga, and is very mysterious. In the manga his name is strictly Kaosu (過王須) and I'm under the impression it is meant to be read Kaosu (not as Chaos) because it is sometimes broken down using the hiragana かおす; however other times it is broken down with katakana, which confuses me, since my Japanese is so poor.

In the anime, he is given the name of Ryuuji Yashiro (耶之路龍治) and thus Wikipedia states that Ryuuji is an anime-only character. His nickname is always written out with katakana カオス which does make it the borrowed English word Chaos. We know this, too, from the Chaos Game written in English on their cellphones in the anime.

But then the other day I happened to notice this manga throw-back in the anime:



Makes me go (O_o), this character's background. I wonder, is manga-Chaos meant to be Chinese? Is that why the manga ends with Kyouichi boarding a plane to China?

I know nothing of the Chinese language, so I had to use an online translator to get: Guò Wáng Xū from the manga kanji. Which intrigued me, because if you think Wáng-xū is his first name (Asian order) than it loosely means "Necessary King". Just to think how Yagyuu treats Kaosu in the manga, it seemed approperiate...

Yeah, I over-think things.
 
#5
Dec 17, 2010 9:01 PM

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Hi hlwar! You make some interesting observations - after watching this show a few times, I also thought of some moments where I just sat there, scratching my head - especially with Maria's sidestory going on. My first impression was also a Joan of Arc thing, with people dying on stakes and the feel of the period I felt the show was representing. I did not understand the last screen capture either - some anachronistic stuff going on there? What's with the vintage clothing, but the modern day oxygen mask?

Raito! Love him! I thought of two reasons for his leavetaking: either he also went to help find Tatsuma, or maybe help the survivors rebuild Tokyo, ya know, since he contributed to the mess. ;) And the crow I think is actually a good thing, since his friend was represented by one and perhaps Raito is comforted or getting support from his friend from beyond thru the crow.

The Chinese-vibe is interesting, because in the anime, how did Kyouichi figure out that Tatsuma was headed to China? That always baffled me.

Your brainstorming is stellar! Hahaha keep it up.
 
#6
Dec 25, 2010 1:26 PM

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Hi JuniorMintKiss! Thanks for reading my rambling, and I'm glad you actually enjoyed all the random musings. ;)

With Maria's last screen capture, it shows her in Dr. Iwayama's hospital after being attacked by the detectives, during the time Aoi's Bosatsu-gan powers call back the spirits of their loved ones, to face Yagyuu. Hence the modern-day oxygen mask. I chose that particular still because I'm assuming the spirits standing in the background are her parents - and it gives hints to the era she was actually born in.

Yeah, I agree about the crow on Raito's shoulder; I think it's symbolic of Ryouichi and their band, but with no real plot implications. I never really thought about his just leaving to help Tokyo, but I don't know if he would leave Rasetsu behind for that... To me, that meant he was expecting danger, and didn't want to involve her anymore.

The anime does draw from Chinese Taoism, so the whole Chinese-vibe is made apparent at different times. I still don't get much of it, either. o_O Like in episode one, where Kyouichi is the "aniki" to those three Chinese thugs, Old Man Yang, Wang and Fan. I don't know anything about Shinjuku, and have never been to Japan, but does Tokyo have China Towns? Explains Kyouichi's favored Chinese Ramen shop, too. *shrugs*

I was under the impression that Kyouichi knew Tatsuma was following Yagyuu to China from his vision of Tatsuma under the sakura tree. In other words, a showcase of their strong connection, and Tatsuma kinda saying goodbye. What do you think?
 
#7
Dec 28, 2010 12:25 AM

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Well, I had many questions that were left untold after I finished the anime. Believeing that Kyouichi and Hisuragi went to find Tatsuma on their own in China like they said. What would happen to Claude, Claire, Daigo, and Hisuragi since they all had that strange glow signifying that they had the demons inside of them. I assume they died, correct?

But why not Hisuragi? Unless my assumption was inccorect there. I believe that Inugaami, er...the carrot man(nickname ^^), he said in the anime to Maria that he had made a promise on his lifestyle. To whom did he make a promise to and why? I can't figure that out. I still have thousands of things I want to say, but my head is hurting from thinking of all the things.


But your answer to Lightning head, well...I believe your right. I think he knew all about it and decided to go find Tatsuma as well. Maybe, if they continued the show, it would have shown him, Kyouichi, and Hisuragi fighting alongside eachother. >< Maybe...
Huh? What?! A zoo? A world zoo?! Do not touch or feed the nations?! ~ Spain, Hetaoni
 
#8
Dec 28, 2010 1:26 PM

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hlwar said:
With Maria's last screen capture, it shows her in Dr. Iwayama's hospital after being attacked by the detectives, during the time Aoi's Bosatsu-gan powers call back the spirits of their loved ones, to face Yagyuu. Hence the modern-day oxygen mask. I chose that particular still because I'm assuming the spirits standing in the background are her parents - and it gives hints to the era she was actually born in.


Oh see, I didn't know that she was at Dr. Iwayama's hospital and I didn't make the connection with Yagyuu and Aoi's powers and Maria's parents' spirits. That makes more sense now. BTB, I am watching this show again with my new surround sound I got for Christmas! And I can't believe the sounds and images I didn't pick up before. It's actually made me pick up more snippets in the show. W00T!


hlwar said:
Like in episode one, where Kyouichi is the "aniki" to those three Chinese thugs, Old Man Yang, Wang and Fan. I don't know anything about Shinjuku, and have never been to Japan, but does Tokyo have China Towns? Explains Kyouichi's favored Chinese Ramen shop, too. *shrugs*


Ya, I never got that either - how a high school student is Old Man Yang's "boss".

hlwar said:
I was under the impression that Kyouichi knew Tatsuma was following Yagyuu to China from his vision of Tatsuma under the sakura tree.


When did Kyouichi have a vision about Tatsuma? Wow - I really missed that one!
 
#9
Dec 29, 2010 2:57 PM

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Hi Cross_Snow! Thanks for joining the conversations!! First of all, may I just say your combination of Hisui Kisaragi's name is adorable (Hisuragi) - it could be his new fangirl nickname. (LOL)

As for the Vessels of the Four Gods, Ryuuzan Arai did give hints that the human body was too frail to hold the powers of the deities, and therefore was suggesting that Daigo, Kisaragi, Claire and Alan might all become gravely ill after the Gods awakened - enough to die. Will we ever know for certain? Probably not. I guess each fan can speculate as they see fit...

There were some fans suggesting that Kisaragi was not showing side effects of Genbu's awakening because his connection to the Golden Dragon was cut off, quite literally, when Tatsuma lost his left hand in battle. If you'll recall, when Aoi's powers resurrected the dead, Tendou kinda gifted a hand to Tatsuma, and the birthmark was replaced with the Kodzunu tattoo.



I personally don't buy this theory. Just because Tatsuma's human body lost a hand does not mean Genbu was no longer housed in Kisaragi; and as long as both Genbu and the Golden Dragon existed, they'd be connected. I think Kisaragi, as always, wouldn't allow himself to externally show his pains and suffering. That's all.

Ahh, here we go with the videogame throwbacks! ;) To answer your query on Inugami, he is actually an inugami (a dog-spirit) and was raised in the Edo period; he is also in the prequel videogame Gehouchou. He cannot leave the Magami school grounds because he is spiritually bound by his promise to his Master to protect the old school building (the broken down building where the Sadako/Ju-on like demon rises in episode two).





His Master to whom he made the promise is Magami founder Yuri Tokizusa, the woman who created the supernatural school during the Bakumatsu to battle the demonic forces fighting the Shogunate. Yuri Tokizusa is also the spirit who has been calling out to Tatsuma and is the ghost he meets in the final omake (the Romeo and Juliette episode).







After I read all about this, I actually got teary-eyed when I saw that omake for the second time. I loved when Tatsuma went to Inugami with Yuri's message, when she said "I'm sorry, and thank you." The sorry part got me because if you read how an inugami is created - how Yuri created Inugami himself - it's really distrubing and grossly sad... (read here). Somehow "sorry" doesn't seem like enough, poor guy. :(

Yay JuniorMintKiss for rewatching, and for the new surround sound!! :D Lucky duck! All I got for Christmas was a fleece blanket for my bed. Heehee~

Anyway, I guess Kyouichi must have beaten up Old Man Yang's boys during one of his rampages in middle school, like how he got Azumabashi and his boys under him. Kyouichi woulda made a good Yakuza! (LOL)

There's actually multiple showcases that Kyouichi might be connected to Tatsuma as well, whether a show of their true friendship or just by sharing the same Dragon Vein power, who knows. But at the end, we see Tatsuma and Yagyuu battling (the "Cherry blossom that does not fall" moment) and it instantly flashes to Kyouichi standing under the sakura tree, thinking. He muses to himself, "Would I just get in the way?" and then tells Aoi he knows Tatsuma is in China.





It's the same with his other vision while in China, with the falling sakura petals. And also in the Prayer OP, where it shows Kyouichi chasing after Tatsuma, and finding him (but not actually reaching him) under the sakura tree. I think all this symbolizes the same thing, sorta. *shrugs*



Modified by hlwar, Dec 29, 2010 4:27 PM
 
Dec 29, 2010 6:53 PM

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Thanks! I liked the name Hisuragi for him. ^_-
And I never thought of it that way, I had wondered why Tendou gave Tatsuma his left hand during the battle. But that sort of makes since the way you put it.
Poor Inugami. ): I didn't know that was his life style and that sure does explain the lady who kept calling to Tatsuma.

Oh yeah, I also don't really understand why Tatsuma's hair turned white. Was it because of his new power? Can his body not handle the Golden Dragon like the other four?
Huh? What?! A zoo? A world zoo?! Do not touch or feed the nations?! ~ Spain, Hetaoni
 
Dec 29, 2010 7:06 PM

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hlwar said:
Anyway, I guess Kyouichi must have beaten up Old Man Yang's boys during one of his rampages in middle school, like how he got Azumabashi and his boys under him. Kyouichi woulda made a good Yakuza! (LOL)

Well, after going through my screen caps, I found out that what I mentioned before was precisely what he did; there's a scene in the first omake that shows Kyouichi beating up Yang's notorious "Three Wise Men" group:



I guess all the well-meaning thugs respected his iron-fist and self-righteousness to keep order in their little nook of the criminal underworld.

And I'm still not sure about Chinatown, but I just read the following at a travel wiki, which says a lot about Kyouichi's upbringing and Club Diva:

The Kabukichō (歌舞伎町) district is Tokyo's most notorious red-light district - although during the daytime you might not even notice, especially if you can't decode the elaborate Japanese codewords on the billboards. At night it's a different story though, as sharkskin-suited junior yakuza gangsters hustle and girls in miniskirts beckon customers amid the adults-only vending machines. Night or day, it's always packed with people, and until recently quite a bit of gangland violence went on in the vicinity (though at any rate outsiders are generally not involved).

To the south of Kabuki-cho is Shinjuku ni-chome (新宿2丁目), Tokyo's largest gay district.
Modified by hlwar, Dec 29, 2010 11:19 PM
 
Dec 29, 2010 11:13 PM

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Cross_Snow, yeah, Tendou hated Yagyuu too, so I think renewing Tatsuma's hand was not only his gift (since he truly was not an evil person) but also his way of saying "screw you" to Yagyuu.

As for Tatsuma's white hair, you're right. It was due to the sudden surge of power that went through his body. I believe that sometimes occurs if a person is struck by lightning, all that momentous voltage. And actually, I think the same thing happened to Tendou. Arai said that Tendou's body had been infused with Dark Arts by whoever granted him his powers, and remember little Manabu originally had brown hair:



So I think extreme power bleached his hair just like Tatsuma. (I'm sure he dyed the red streaks though, to go with his badboy tattoos. ^^)
 
Jan 6, 2011 6:35 PM

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Hmmm...I'm wondering now. When that spirit was called in the begining of the anime...was that when the four deities were decided or was that previously? Or was that just for the stars of fate who fight alongside like Kyouichi and Lightning head?
Huh? What?! A zoo? A world zoo?! Do not touch or feed the nations?! ~ Spain, Hetaoni
 
Jan 6, 2011 8:22 PM

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Um, you're talking about when the Sadako-esque spirit attacked the Magami five, right? That was when Tendou and Yagyuu broke the flow in the Dragon Vein, and due to the disruption, it awakened the supernatural powers in everyone who was gifted (so to speak). All magic and monsters aside, this would be like someone discovering they had ESP.

The Vessels were born Vessels, and thereby would have had the Four Gods and the Dragons inside them their whole lives. That's why Tatsuma was born with those birthmarks. And remember Claire was Suzaku, and she was using her fire-powers her whole life.

I really don't get into horoscopes, but every single person is born under a certain star class. And if you believe in horoscopes and such, then your fate would follow the path set by the map of the stars when you were born (like how your blood type can dictate your personality, or so they say). That's what Star of Fate refers to; it's not just something for those with power fighting with the Dragon.

Anyhoo, that's my take. :)
 
Jan 7, 2011 3:58 PM

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Oh! Okay! That sums it up! :D Your really knowledgable in this. ^^ I can't wait till I get to that point. (lol)

I thought thats what happened, but I wasn't quite sure............(8D) uh.....I just forgot what else I was going to say......(XD)
Huh? What?! A zoo? A world zoo?! Do not touch or feed the nations?! ~ Spain, Hetaoni
 
Jan 8, 2011 3:12 PM

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Thanks, Cross_Snow! I try. XD

Here's something that had me wondering the very first time I saw the series. In the Magami kids' timeline, 17 years ago others were battling Munetaka Yagyuu, and I wondered: Who's the other guy in this flashback?



It's Ryuuzan Arai holding baby-Tatsuma:


And obviously the man with the bleeding eyes is Doushin Narasaki. He is trying to restrain Tougo Narutaki (Tatsuma's shishou) from saving Genma Hiyuu (not pictured). But... then who is the man holding Tougo's other arm?



My theory? I think it's Kyoushiro Kamui, the ronin who took in Kyouichi. As much as Kyouichi doesn't believe in destiny, I think there was a higher reason as to why he met Kyoushiro. Everything in the Tokyo Majin world works as a wheel, and ultimately the Stars of Fate in the tale, new and old, crossed paths at some point during the war against Yagyuu.

I also wonder why baby-Tatsuma was present for the epic battle to seal Yagyuu and his powers? Could it be because Yagyuu was trying to steal away (or kill) the Vessel of the Golden Dragon? That might explain why Tatsuma's father was so willing to give his life...
 
Jan 11, 2011 6:16 AM

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I knew it! I had my suspicions about Kyoushiro! And the first time I saw him I thought it was Kyouichi's father, but that apparently wasn't true after I saw the extra episode. Walk On Child. Maybe that was true, actually, I believe the theory is correct. The more information we gain it seems, the more we are to figuring out the truth! The ending. :D
Huh? What?! A zoo? A world zoo?! Do not touch or feed the nations?! ~ Spain, Hetaoni
 
Jan 12, 2011 5:24 PM

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Oh wow! I was reading a character list for the videogame Tokyo Majin Gakuen Oboro-Kitan and it seems my theory above was correct - it is Kyoushiro Kamui. He's featured in that game along with Tougo and Tatsuma Hiyuu's real parents.

Although it was in Japanese and my reading is basic, I've learned a few things that make some theories a little clearer. It seems Genma Hiyuu (緋勇弦麻) meets the same end in the game's story, and it keeps mentioning China's Hakka (中国の「客家」). It seems like the Hakka group is led by Yagyuu, whom Genma dies fighting against. This would explain why Yagyuu flees to China at the end of the anime.

I was really surprised, however, to read about Hiyuu-kun's real mother. Kayo Hiyuu (緋勇迦代) also had the power of the Bodhisattva Eye, born under the same Star of Fate as Aoi Misato. She died giving birth to Tatsuma, the Vessel of the Golden Dragon; it almost seemed like it was an exchange of powers.

That's pretty revealing stuff!
 
Mar 18, 2011 4:13 PM

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It's been quiet around here lately, so I thought I would share some information from the Japanese wikipedia regarding Kodzunu's Kidou-shuu (鬼道衆) or what they dubbed in English as the Demoniacal Horde.



The Horns

In the anime, they make it seem like these five demons are all of the existing Kidou-shuu. However, in the manga and game, the Kidou-shuu is more like a cult and has a mass following. While the Kidou-shuu five leaders and Kodzunu do transform many followers into monsters (as in the anime), it seems like most of the people are already loyal members of the cult and use the Dark Arts.

And in case anyone was wondering why I spell it "Kodzunu":
Since the videogame's release in 1998, his name has always been romanized differently in the English-speaking fandoms. I've seen "Kodunu" a few times, but mostly everyone wrote it "Kozune" (the norm when the anime came out) or "Kodzuno". I even had to ask someone when I got into the anime because I was confused myself!

I did not get a definite answer, but here is his name in Japanese: 九角天童 Broken down into simpler hiragana by Japanese info sites: こづぬ てんどう and this reads Kozunu Tendou. But because years ago the gamers always added the phonetic "d" sound, I've opted to do the phonetic spelling (Kodzunu) out of respect - since 9 years is a long time to be gaming it before an anime; and it just looks cooler!

Due to the nature of writing Japanese into English, other completely acceptable spellings of his first name are Tendō and Tendoh. I just choose to write it Tendou because the hiragana says the "u" (う) should be there... Although, that in itself is somewhat subjective; just look at the title broken down: とうきょうまじんがくえんけんぷうちょう (Toukyou Majin Gakuen Kenpuuchou) and I don't actually write it out as such. Technically, they are all correct. *shrugs*
Modified by hlwar, May 1, 2011 5:42 PM
 
May 9, 2011 4:34 PM

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I'm sorry to "revive" this, but I was rereading and since I recently rewatched it again, I have some comments--

About
There's actually multiple showcases that Kyouichi might be connected to Tatsuma as well, whether a show of their true friendship or just by sharing the same Dragon Vein power, who knows. But at the end, we see Tatsuma and Yagyuu battling (the "Cherry blossom that does not fall" moment) and it instantly flashes to Kyouichi standing under the sakura tree, thinking. He muses to himself, "Would I just get in the way?" and then tells Aoi he knows Tatsuma is in China.


So, I don't know if the Tatsuma's sentence (だったら僕が知らない桜になる」 was translated as "I'll become the Cherry Blossom that won't fall." or not. I guess it could be translated as that. (It literally says, I'll become an 'unknown' cherry blossom' .. with 'unknown' having the meaning of being different of the rest etc.)
(I never watched this with english translations so... anyway),

That's not really what I wanted to comment, Aoi was repeatedly standing there as well right? Also, she went there again at that time.
Basically either the link is through the dragon veins as you mentioned, because Aoi -did- notice it and went to the sakura. Notice that Komaki also headed there?

Or Tatsuma is basically connected to the Sakura trees. I mean, every time they were thinking about Tatsuma, they would stand (by) or (below) the sakura. But, Tatsuma only talked to Kyouichi (and Mary Claire & possibly Kisaragi)--

Kyouichi didn't mutter his "be in the way" as a question, but as a reconfirmation that someone told him he would be.
「足手纏いか。。。わかっちゃいるが。。。」
"I'll be in the way, huh? ... I know, but..." (I'll go there anyway)

(As for why he didn't tell/talk to Aoi, Komaki or Daigo-- the most simple reason would be his personality. He knows that they don't want to fight, and doesn't want to force them to fight. He'd actually prefer Kyouichi remaining behind as well, but...)

The last part/vision, with Kyouichi saying he'll beat Tatsuma awake makes it seem that Tatsuma took out Yagyuu, or sealed Yagyuu. At the cost of himself/consciousness/something like that, because Tatsuma basically told him, "I'm here."
Since I doubt Tatsuma would reveal where he is, if Kyouichi would be basically just get KO-ed after one second or they'd relocate before he can do anything.

Though, this is just my own view of it.
I mean, you can read Kyouichi's sentence as him telling that "he doesn't have to fight alone" for all that matters.
 
May 17, 2011 4:26 PM

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No worries, Tsunamu - I'm happy to find folks reviving threads! There's certainly enough open-ended subjects in Tokyo Majin to warrant long discussions, and everyone has their own theories, I'm sure. Thanks for adding yours! :D

Anyway, yeah, the English translation for the Chiranai sakura is "Cherry Blossoms That Do Not Fall" (it's that episode's title, too). I suppose they took into consideration the 'unknown' being 'opposite'; Yagyuu was saying about people inevitably falling like the flower petals, so Tatsuma would be the one that wouldn't. One of those loosely, creatively translated lines you mentioned to me? ;)

I personally think the sakura viewing by all the characters was just moments of symbolism, not factually meaning anything specific. A lot of anime use sakura as a visual, don't they? Whether for a showcase of someone's inner ponderings or emotions, or something spiritual. Kinda like how a lot of movies show people staring at the ocean as they think - the waves themselves don't signify anything concrete or tangible, only a visual for that character's indepth thoughts and feelings. *shrugs*

And I thought Komaki was heading to Aoi (who was either looking for Kyouichi, or was going off to stare at the blossoms for another "ocean moment") not specifically the sakura? Perspective, I guess. What I took from it was moreso that everyone already involved knew the battle wasn't over, and they all obviously knew Tatsuma was still fighting it. Everything they thought or felt was possibly their own perspectives of the situation. I don't think Tatsuma was actually talking to them, so much as they already knew what Tatsuma would say to their thoughts.

I do believe, on a spirtual, celestial level, the Golden Dragon would call to the Four Gods. Therefore Kisaragi, Alan, Claire, and Daigo would hold the deepest connection to Tatsuma - but they were not the ones visiting the sakura. Is that sending conflicting messages? Or perhaps because they do have a higher connection to Tatsuma, they don't need to think about it so much?

But again, on a supernatural level, it could be the Dragon Vein connection, too, following the flow of its power. Hence, Tatsuma's other friends would also "feel" where he is, just not as strongly as the Vessels.

As for Kyouichi musing to himself, I agree, he was thinking out loud. Obviously he really wanted to go help his best friend, but he was worried he would get in the way since Tatsuma was fighting on a whole other level, being the Golden Dragon and battling the Yin Dragon outside the physical world. And Kyouichi isn't a Vessel like Tatsuma. I don't think it was Tatsuma telling him he'd be in the way, it was Kyouichi wondering if his mortal presence would be in the way. And as is his personality, he decides to just do what he wants, to go for it and help Tatsuma. That's what I got from that moment, anyhow.

And I felt the last vision of Kyouichi's was another one of those "Thank you" moments. There was a lot of effort to show how grateful Tatsuma was towards his friends, and deep down, I think he'd be touched that Kyouichi came for him. In a sense, he would want to tell him "I'm here." And I thought Kyouichi's joking statement about knocking Tatsuma awake was an emotional character throw-back to the beginning; he said it in the same jovial badboy way of his old self, not with the dire seriousness of the situation. I believed it to be Kyouichi's declaration to his friend that he was coming to help, the same as he always did.

Personally, I don't feel it was meant to signify that the battle was over, and Yagyuu was sealed and Tatsuma dead. I mean, if you wanted closure for the anime, I guess it would be a good ending... but why would Kyouichi and Kisaragi continue to stay in China then? I really think it was left open-ended, just like the video game. To allow a continuation of the franchise.

Thanks for the chat! :D
By the way, this actually let me express and clarify some of my own opinions that I'm using to write my sequel fanfic! ^^
 
May 17, 2011 6:42 PM

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Here's something I thought I'd offer, seeing as how not many of the anime fans seem to realize it (judging from the English Wikipedia, and fanfics I've read where Tatsuma was naked):



Tatsuma actually has birthmarks not only on both hands, but also both feet and chest. The screen capture above shows the Golden Dragon's powers pouring out of those marks; insert is concept sketches detailing them. Those on his limbs constitute his connection to the Four Gods - as seen by the light emanating from the respective areas on Kisaragi (image below), Daigo, Claire, and Alan - and the chest "wings" represent the Center, the Golden Dragon.

 
May 18, 2011 6:50 AM

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Oh it's "chiranai" ... I heard him say "Shiranai" that's why I went with "unknown" rather than "not falling." XD If it's chiranai, then it's correct.

I personally think the sakura viewing by all the characters was just moments of symbolism, not factually meaning anything specific. A lot of anime use sakura as a visual, don't they? Whether for a showcase of someone's inner ponderings or emotions, or something spiritual. Kinda like how a lot of movies show people staring at the ocean as they think - the waves themselves don't signify anything concrete or tangible, only a visual for that character's indepth thoughts and feelings. *shrugs*


I would say yes, but Tatsuma has been shown paired with a sakura [tree/petal], like almost all the time. I know that Sakura indirectly stands for "a new beginning," and usually just stands for symbolism, but the amount of sakura-watching that they did was a little too much at one time?
If it only was Aoi, Kyouichi, Daigo and Komaki there at the same time, I would've agreed but first it was Aoi by herself. Then it was Kyouichi, and so on.

I think that the vessels do have a deeper connection to Tatsuma than the ones only with dragon veins...depending on Tatsuma himself. How much would he open up to them, things like that to explain why Daigo chose to not chase Tatsuma.
Alan wasn't part of the group, so that explains that.

So I think Mary Claire knows/knew (depending on what you consider her end), where Tatsuma was at. Kisaragi knows, but he disappeared probably cause of his injuries due to Genbu.

And I thought Kyouichi's joking statement about knocking Tatsuma awake was an emotional character throw-back to the beginning; he said it in the same jovial badboy way of his old self, not with the dire seriousness of the situation.


Could be, since the "standing in the way" is a hint to what he kept telling Aoi. That's why I thought Tatsuma was definitely "saying" or "conveying" it. (Not using those exact words but basically showing "I'm here, but it's best if you don't help out." xD)
 
Jun 22, 2011 5:41 PM

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Tsunamu said:
So I think Mary Claire knows/knew (depending on what you consider her end), where Tatsuma was at. Kisaragi knows, but he disappeared probably cause of his injuries due to Genbu.

Interesting. In her last scene, just before she passes out, she gets a "vision" of Tatsuma. Although, I don't think Marie Claire knew exactly where Tatsuma was because she's too immature, not much of a deep thinker. Claire is childishly selfish, however, so I guess you could see her "vision" as merely wishful thinking of an exhausted little girl.

You know, a lot of fans think that Kisaragi disappears at the end - but that's not true. Because he meets up with Kyouichi and the both of them go to China to find Tatsuma. Not only do we see this conversation, but during the graduation ceremony for the Magami students, they show Kyouichi and Kisaragi roaming through Chinese villages, where Kisaragi is inquiring to locals (so I'm assuming Kisaragi speaks Mandarin).

Something else going around in the fandom is that many people seem to assume Kisaragi is Aoi's official bodyguard. Someone even wrote on the English Wikipedia that protecting the Misato family was a part of his tradition. Wha?! Says who!? This is complete fanon, and absolutely false! No where is this written, and never is this shown or stated in the anime series.

I mean, even Aoi introduces Kisaragi as the person who sells antiques to her father. That's how they met as kids, through the delivery of antiques. Facts at face value. That's all there is to their story, sorry. And if he were her bodyguard, would he be leaving her alone so often, at such dangerous times? He'd be a pretty sucky bodyguard then. o__O
 
Jun 26, 2011 12:53 PM

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hlwar said:
Something else going around in the fandom is that many people seem to assume Kisaragi is Aoi's official bodyguard. Someone even wrote on the English Wikipedia that protecting the Misato family was a part of his tradition.


Wasn't there a part in the show where Kisaragi's grandfather alludes to the fact that the Kisaragi family has always served the Misato clan? Perhaps this is where people are getting the ideas about the bodyguarding... :P
 
Jun 27, 2011 10:12 PM

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JuniorMintKiss said:
Wasn't there a part in the show where Kisaragi's grandfather alludes to the fact that the Kisaragi family has always served the Misato clan? Perhaps this is where people are getting the ideas about the bodyguarding... :P

That's true, but why would everyone automatically assume his grandfather meant that as: "We've been their bodyguards for ages now!" ((+_+)) I think the translation of served was probably a bad idea; a better word would be serviced as they provide a service of finding old items.

Never once do you see the Kisaragis protecting the Misato family and property. I just screen cap'ed that episode to be sure, and every time you see them at the estate all they're doing is delivering antiques.

I think his grandfather only said it like that to drive it into little Hisui's mind he should not get too close to Aoi (who just gave him a bracelet). He wanted his grandson to be professional in the face of their long-standing clients (people who are just as traditional), and think only of their duty in life (fighting demons).

Clearly, in the beginning, Aoi has no inkling of what Kisaragi does for a living beyond his antique shop, and I think if he were her appointed bodyguard, she'd have to know. It just seems common sense to me. *shrugs*
 
Jul 23, 2011 3:33 PM

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What did you guys think of the Twelve Heavenly Generals of the Martial Fist? Before I knew anything of the franchise and just exclusively watched the anime - I didn't like them.

My first thought was the Martial Fist was a rip-off of the assassin group Weiß (Weiß kreuz). Granted, the general concept isn't very original anymore, but the Fist and Weiß are both assassination organizations that kill criminals who escape the justice of civil society. Both are backed by the police (Big Mama makes a note to say the police in Shinjuku turn a blind eye to the activities of the Fist) and headed by secretive men (Tougo Narutaki and "Persia"). Just too alike.

And in the entire plot of the anime, I felt the Generals and the Fist were very pointless. Only Kureha, Ukon, and Renji needed to be a part of the cast as they were the only ones to serve a purpose and drive the story. The entire organization, the other nine members of the Martial Fist, were useless. On top of that, after their handful of episodes, they only came back to provide [useless] support for the final battle. It didn't make sense to me.

When I started researching the title, my foremost focus was on the Shinto connotations because I found it interesting. I learned there really are Twelve Heavenly Generals (Juuni Shinshou) in Buddhism culture, and they're said to represent the 12 animals of the Chinese zodiac - which would hearken back to the Four Saint Beasts and the Golden Dragon.

However, in the end, none of the inspirations were relevant. The Generals in the Martial Fist may have been using the Buddhist names (possibly codenames), as I recall the one to attack Kisaragi had a name that either was, or similar to, Bikyara (see the list at the link above). But if this were so, it wasn't elaborated on at all.

I couldn't even say for sure if the assassins were using the same weapons as appointed to the respective Divine. Actually, the one girl was using a modified bagh nakh (tiger claws) which is the weapon of Weiß member Ken "Siberian" Hidaka (and it was designed exactly like his in the manga version). So where exactly was inspiration drawn from? ò_ô

And then I began to research the history and the franchise. And it seems the Martial Fist was created to replace certain characters in the original videogame and manga. (Which again leads me to believe there was never an intention to make a third and final season of the anime, because they obviously tried to use up the characters!)



Kureha Mibu is himself. He is in the original sources, and he is an assassin. But he works alone. And Daigo's friend Renji Magatsu is, for the most part, the same character with the same motivations.

Ukon Yatsurugi is an anime-only character. I have never seen this name for any of the videogames. However, he is voiced by Tomohiro Tsuboi, and given this along with his pretty-boy looks, sauve and arrogant speech... I'm starting to believe Ukon was created as a replacement for Haruaki Mikado, the Onmyouji student also voiced by Tsuboi-san.

And next we have mute Raesetsu, the girl who attacks, and then falls in love with, Raito Umon. Her weapon is a fan, which led a lot of gamers to believe she was the anime's version of Fuyou - Mikado's beautiful and stoic shikigami who fights with paper fans.

If you look towards the center of the above screen capture, you will see two twins who are rather hulking and gruff; they attacked the Oribe twins. I finally realized they were meant to represent the game/manga character Hyougo Shigure. Hyougo splits into two people for a double attack in the game. Hence his "anime twin".

And then we have the assailant on Aoi:



Like most of the Fist, she is unnamed in the anime. But with the purposefully exposing of her face to view her bindi, it's rather obvious she is Sara Thoth from the game (not in the manga). (_O_)

Anybody have any thoughts on this, or the Martial Fist and their arc in general?
 
Feb 1, 2012 4:05 PM

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Hey hlwar! Perhaps you can help me with something...
In the extra chapter episode 'Walk Onward Children' (or whatever the title is), there is a scene with Kyouichi beating up a drug dealer in an alley way. Aoi then approaches them and tells Kyouichi, more or less, to stop beating the guy up. Then she says how no one is born evil, everyone has a heart, etc. Kyouichi then looks at her, then we get a flashback of the faces of his mentor and Daigo. He makes some kind of connection between them and Aoi's actions.




Where I get hung up on is what exactly was Koyuichi's epiphany? Right after this, he goes to find the sash that his sensei left for him. What dawned on him right then and there? Because, to me, this is the exact moment where Kyouichi starts to really respect Aoi. I know the answer is staring me in the face, but I just need some clarification - it's been bugging me for quite a while!
Modified by JuniorMintKiss, Feb 1, 2012 8:48 PM
 
Feb 4, 2012 2:54 PM

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Oh! Hey there JuniorMintKiss! ヾ(^∇^)

Well, here's my overly dramatic take: The whole extra episode is spent showing how much Kyouichi fought on the streets. How much he acted like a tough kid who needed no friends. All he wanted to do was fight because he thought it was the right thing to do. But... right for whom?

Kyouichi's epiphany is understanding. What happens in this moment is Aoi has just told him her strong beliefs, the reason she's defending the dealer. And as Kyouichi starts to bully her out of his way, he looks into her eyes -

The look in her eyes reminds him of Daigo's expression during their big brawl, when Daigo refuses to back down (despite the fact Kyouichi was clearly winning and beating the hell out of him). Kyouichi didn't understand why Daigo would foolishly risk his life for his friends, not able to comprehend that Daigo also had a difficult youth and problems with his father. I think Kyouichi was selfishly dwelling on his own grief and vengeance, and more concerned with why Daigo wouldn't concede to his "righteousness".

The fervor of Aoi's determined look also reminded him of the disapproving look in Kamui's eyes. Kyouichi had earlier been beaten by Kamui, who traded weapons with the teenager and bested Kyouichi's real blade with the bokuto. Kamui tells Kyouichi that he can't win because he has no sense of self, no sense of what to defend. All Kyouichi had been doing was fighting for the sake of fighting; he was in pain, so his only relief was to give out pain. Even though Kyouichi immaturely thought he was protecting "good people" on the streets from "bad people", he had no real reason. By bushido, this is not justice.

With Daigo, with Aoi, he saw they had reason. And they deeply believed in it. They fought for others; they fought to protect (a passionate statement that was re-enunciated with meeting Tatsuma Hiyuu, whose sole purpose was to protect and save). Meeting them, Kyouichi finally understood what Kamui was trying to teach him.

This lifted his hurt feeling of being abandoned by Kamui (who disappeared and left behind his bokuto sheath for him) and Kyouichi realized how much Kamui as a person and father figure meant to him. So he went to find the gifted sheath, breaking down into tears because he understood, and regretted.

He also attempted to talk to Daigo when he bumped into him again, after learning Magatsu killed his father and Daigo was having problems of his own. This showed a HUGE change in Kyouichi's personality because before he vowed to crush Daigo if he ever saw him again. Now he's showing compassion and understanding. He was growing up.

Personally, I don't feel this moment has anything at all to do with Aoi. She was a complete (and annoying) stranger to him at the time, and all her appearance did was allow Kyouichi to learn about himself. He learned to respect himself. Of course, this also gave him history with the girl he would later attend high school with, and because she had such a big impact on his own self-awareness, naturally he was drawn to her. He just wouldn't admit he liked her because she was a rich girl from the other side of the tracks - he still wanted to keep up his "badboy" reputation.

But the episode did end with him being relaxed and laid back (the Kyouichi we knew through the whole series) no longer raging for a fight to prove himself. He learned it wasn't about being better than someone else, and there was no honor in hurting people just because. We see Kyouichi believing in his strength with his bokuto as a means to truly protect.

Like Kamui and Tatsuma said to him, Kyouichi finally learned where to point his sword. Even if he couldn't fully let go of what happened to his father.

That's how I perceived him, anyhow.
 
Feb 4, 2012 10:50 PM

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Ahh, I see now...thanks so much! Even though I could see that Kyouichi was being a total asshat to so many people who tried to help him, I just didn't make the connection as to what his resolve was. I think Kamui's comments kinda threw me off balance, as I couldn't really pick up on what he was trying to teach Kyouichi. I guess I need to indulge and watch it again!
 
Mar 2, 2012 7:43 PM

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i got a question o.0 after watching the last episode of the second season (where they were supposedly doing a umm play?) at the end Tatsuma came by said "Thank You" to Aoi im still confuse..was that episode part of the season as well? cause it didnt seem to make since or was it a vision that Aoi had?

thanks
I desire money. Not because I am poor or because I am greedy. It is because with money I will gain power and with that power I will be able to change the world.
 
Mar 24, 2012 3:15 PM

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hewhodoesnotcare said:
i got a question o.0 after watching the last episode of the second season (where they were supposedly doing a umm play?) at the end Tatsuma came by said "Thank You" to Aoi im still confuse..was that episode part of the season as well? cause it didnt seem to make since or was it a vision that Aoi had? thanks

Hi there, hewhodoesnotcare! Sorry for such a late reply. Normally I get notifications when someone posts in threads, but I didn't this time. And I stopped checking the club regularly since it's so quiet. But seriously, I apologize! m(_ _)m

Anyway, hopefully I can answer some of your questions for you - although I'm sure there are many that disagree with my opinions or have different ideas on the anime.

The two extra episodes are basically fillers. The last episode is set during the end of the entire series, when Tokyo is destroyed and the government is moving people out of the ruins and shelters. Aoi goes to the drama department one last time (notice she has her eye-patch) in the beginning, to reflect before leaving, and notices something...

The episode then jumps backwards in the timeline, and is now set 10 days after the Twelve Heavenly Generals arc. It's before the whole Chaos ordeal, and the Magami kids are just focusing on regular school life: graduation, ceremonies, and putting on a final play for the celebrations. Hence the American title of this episode: "Romeo and Juliet".

However, the real Japanese title is "Arigatou" and is meant to focus on everyone being thankful for their friendships - especially Tatsuma, who never had any real friends before. This is shown in his personal flashbacks, when he's a child and essentially an outsider looking in; never playing with the other children, or participating in any of the school events. But now, thanks to his friends, he readily offers to help the Magami girls put on their play (even accepting to try on Juliet's dress), for once having fun with the other students and feeling a part of the group event. This episode is built around him telling his friends (and not just Aoi) "Thank you."

It also shows the rest of the kids being thankful for meeting Tatsuma as well. They openly state they owed everything they had become - their strengths and friendships and powers and futures - to Tatsuma Hiyuu. If he had never transferred to Magami, then none of them would have become true friends. Aoi reflects she's happy to continue fighting with them, all who give her strength to battle where no one else probably could have done so.

Yet they all still notice how mysterious Tatsuma really is, and how he doesn't share much about himself. Except, maybe, to Kyouichi (remember, he only tells Kyouichi he wanted to investigate the old school building alone, leaving the others to wonder where he'd gotten to).

No one seems to notice the strong message of friendship in this anime, only wanting to find romantic pairings, but it's a real character-driven plot; it is a story of friendship and destiny nonetheless. That's why, after Tatsuma's encounter with the ghost in the old school building, he invites everyone fighting on his side to a late ramen dinner with the main Magami kids (and Kisaragi was shocked to be invited, Raito teases Kyouichi, etc.). And when they go out for ice cream, he braves to voice out loud... "Than----"

Here the credits role, playing ACID's Hanafubuki (which is a song of gratitude towards someone you love and miss). But the final sequence returns us to the present, where [eye-patch] Aoi is back in the ruins of Magami Academy, and Komaki and Anko come to tell her they have to leave for good. Going with her friends, tears come to her eyes one last time at the message on the chalkboard.

That "Arigatou" is open to interpretation. I don't believe it was an actual message from Tatsuma to Aoi. I think it was the drama club president's message to the rest of the students putting on Romeo and Juliet before. An ironic final message to be left behind after the devastation of Chaos and Yagyuu. Not a vision, but something which Aoi sincerely felt personally, reflecting on her story - and the story the audience just watched. And the finish of Tatsuma's "Thank you" that we did not get to hear, but understood nonetheless. You could also view it as the creators of the franchise telling the fans/audience thanks via Tatsuma. *shrugs*

This is actually a more deep episode than just the quirky filler it seems to be. It hints at A LOT of inside knowledge for the entire Kenpuchou franchise, and is a way for the audience to reflect and say good-bye. It is the final episode after all.
 
Mar 24, 2012 3:40 PM

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Oh. I have this originally posted in the Project Wiki thread, but I believe it also deserves to be here in the theories and facts section, too. 'Cuz I'd really like it to be explained. Oo

Also, I never noticed until I started heavily researching this anime just how fanon the en.Wikipedia.org really can be. I admit ignorance before - I just assumed the website was like an online encyclopedia, and everything on it was from official sources. You know, like a real encyclopedia book. (_O_) But now keeping my eye on the Tokyo Majin section, I'm understanding just how much English-speakers don't know about this anime and its universe. It's kinda sad how most of it is fanon and opinion-based. Oo

What really caught my eye was saying Ken Kaze Tobari is the name of the original game, and that it became Kenpucho after the anime, when the game was upgraded and re-released. Up until now, I'd been quoting that, thinking it was researched fact. But as I transliterated all the names of the games for the TM wikia, I noticed... I don't think that is true.

I realize my Japanese is basic, but really, I think everyone was confusing the kanji for Kenpuuchou (剣風帖 = けんぷうちょう) as 剣 (Ken) 風 (Kaze) 帖 (perhaps confused for 帳 strain which is Tobari). The Japanese wiki does a good job at providing hiragana spellings, and I've never seen the Ken Kaze Tobari (けんかぜとばり) used. Can anyone include reliable, Japanese-literate sources for where Ken Kaze Tobari possibly came from? (I asked this at their Talk page, too.)


Anybody? Know for sure?
 
Mar 24, 2012 7:22 PM

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hlwar said:
hewhodoesnotcare said:
i got a question o.0 after watching the last episode of the second season (where they were supposedly doing a umm play?) at the end Tatsuma came by said "Thank You" to Aoi im still confuse..was that episode part of the season as well? cause it didnt seem to make since or was it a vision that Aoi had? thanks

Hi there, hewhodoesnotcare! Sorry for such a late reply. Normally I get notifications when someone posts in threads, but I didn't this time. And I stopped checking the club regularly since it's so quiet. But seriously, I apologize! m(_ _)m

Anyway, hopefully I can answer some of your questions for you - although I'm sure there are many that disagree with my opinions or have different ideas on the anime.

The two extra episodes are basically fillers. The last episode is set during the end of the entire series, when Tokyo is destroyed and the government is moving people out of the ruins and shelters. Aoi goes to the drama department one last time (notice she has her eye-patch) in the beginning, to reflect before leaving, and notices something...

The episode then jumps backwards in the timeline, and is now set 10 days after the Twelve Heavenly Generals arc. It's before the whole Chaos ordeal, and the Magami kids are just focusing on regular school life: graduation, ceremonies, and putting on a final play for the celebrations. Hence the American title of this episode: "Romeo and Juliet".

However, the real Japanese title is "Arigatou" and is meant to focus on everyone being thankful for their friendships - especially Tatsuma, who never had any real friends before. This is shown in his personal flashbacks, when he's a child and essentially an outsider looking in; never playing with the other children, or participating in any of the school events. But now, thanks to his friends, he readily offers to help the Magami girls put on their play (even accepting to try on Juliet's dress), for once having fun with the other students and feeling a part of the group event. This episode is built around him telling his friends (and not just Aoi) "Thank you."

It also shows the rest of the kids being thankful for meeting Tatsuma as well. They openly state they owed everything they had become - their strengths and friendships and powers and futures - to Tatsuma Hiyuu. If he had never transferred to Magami, then none of them would have become true friends. Aoi reflects she's happy to continue fighting with them, all who give her strength to battle where no one else probably could have done so.

Yet they all still notice how mysterious Tatsuma really is, and how he doesn't share much about himself. Except, maybe, to Kyouichi (remember, he only tells Kyouichi he wanted to investigate the old school building alone, leaving the others to wonder where he'd gotten to).

No one seems to notice the strong message of friendship in this anime, only wanting to find romantic pairings, but it's a real character-driven plot; it is a story of friendship and destiny nonetheless. That's why, after Tatsuma's encounter with the ghost in the old school building, he invites everyone fighting on his side to a late ramen dinner with the main Magami kids (and Kisaragi was shocked to be invited, Raito teases Kyouichi, etc.). And when they go out for ice cream, he braves to voice out loud... "Than----"

Here the credits role, playing ACID's Hanafubuki (which is a song of gratitude towards someone you love and miss). But the final sequence returns us to the present, where [eye-patch] Aoi is back in the ruins of Magami Academy, and Komaki and Anko come to tell her they have to leave for good. Going with her friends, tears come to her eyes one last time at the message on the chalkboard.

That "Arigatou" is open to interpretation. I don't believe it was an actual message from Tatsuma to Aoi. I think it was the drama club president's message to the rest of the students putting on Romeo and Juliet before. An ironic final message to be left behind after the devastation of Chaos and Yagyuu. Not a vision, but something which Aoi sincerely felt personally, reflecting on her story - and the story the audience just watched. And the finish of Tatsuma's "Thank you" that we did not get to hear, but understood nonetheless. You could also view it as the creators of the franchise telling the fans/audience thanks via Tatsuma. *shrugs*

This is actually a more deep episode than just the quirky filler it seems to be. It hints at A LOT of inside knowledge for the entire Kenpuchou franchise, and is a way for the audience to reflect and say good-bye. It is the final episode after all.


Thank you very much for this! xD i was soo confuse with the last episodes i was like ehh but with this i get it now ^^ love the anime and i never was statisfy with the anime ending like that x.x... I must get my imagination and writing skils together! so i can write a fanfic in which i will be statisfy!

Again thx for the help
I desire money. Not because I am poor or because I am greedy. It is because with money I will gain power and with that power I will be able to change the world.
 
Mar 24, 2012 11:32 PM

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You're most welcome, hewhodoesnotcare! Yeah, the extra chapters can be really confusing if you're not paying attention (or don't have a freakishly awesome memory) and not familiar with the rest of the franchise. If you have any more questions about the ending, or would like to share your own views and opinions, please also check out these threads: Dai ni Maku: The end? and Question about the ending (spoilers)

Yay! You're writing a finale fanfic? That's so cool! I actually started one myself, but I kinda since stalled out... I really need to start writing again, though; I'm getting rusty. In the meantime, I'd love to read someone else's take on closure needed. ;D
 
Aug 29, 2012 7:06 AM

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Hi there! Mm.. I have a question..
You see..


The place where Tatsuma and the others fight against Yagyu is still inside human world, right? (If I'm not mistaken, it's in Reihou Fuji).

Then.. What about the place where Tatsuma's fighting against Yagyu? I know they're in China, but the place they're fighting in, is it still in human world too? Or it is in some kind of another dimension/another world/something like that?

Modified by Natsu_Neko, Aug 29, 2012 4:36 PM
 
Dec 5, 2012 7:04 AM

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The thing is, how did Kyouichi and stoic guy managed to walk from Japan to China, I mean there is no sign that they used any transportation method in the anime, and it took only below 10 days as seen on the 12th episode. I bet their legs had been dislocated a lot of times from their journey huh?
 
Jan 5, 2013 11:13 AM

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Natsu_Neko, your images are not loading but I know which scenes you're referring to. These "places" are obviously imaginary and open to interpretation. They could be spiritual, pure fantasy, sci-fi alternate dimensions - whatever you personally want to believe.

I am guessing, KyousukeImadori, that the production staff were hoping the audience would automatically assume Kisaragi and Kyouichi took a plane to China because that's just common sense. In the world of movie-making, it's a waste of time to show scenes like getting a passport, waiting in customs, boarding a flight, etc. all those little mundane activities that people should already know must take place in order to get from Japan to China. Why slow the anime down, you know?
 
Jan 21, 2013 7:10 PM

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hlwar said:
Natsu_Neko, your images are not loading but I know which scenes you're referring to. These "places" are obviously imaginary and open to interpretation. They could be spiritual, pure fantasy, sci-fi alternate dimensions - whatever you personally want to believe.

I am guessing, KyousukeImadori, that the production staff were hoping the audience would automatically assume Kisaragi and Kyouichi took a plane to China because that's just common sense. In the world of movie-making, it's a waste of time to show scenes like getting a passport, waiting in customs, boarding a flight, etc. all those little mundane activities that people should already know must take place in order to get from Japan to China. Why slow the anime down, you know?






Hello,

I recently joined the Tokyo Majin fan club! I was so excited to find this website, though very sad and disappointed to see so little activity. Nevertheless, undeterred and driven by my love for the series, I hope to learn the answers to a few questions to which simple google searches shed no light. I am happy to have joined, specially because I am member # 200!! That merits a celebration :-)

Anyway, happy to be here.

-Neo
 
Feb 23, 2013 6:20 PM

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So uhhhhh is there any way for me to find out what happens after season 2? Also judging from what you said there is a prequel is there any way i can see it (if its a video game was it ever sold in the U.S)
 
Mar 17, 2013 12:26 PM

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Hello and welcome, Neo! It's very awesome to have you as our newest member - and YES! Thank you for finally getting us to 200 members!! This anime is so underappreciated, it's great to finally have some new blood here. \(^o^)/

Please, feel free to ask about anything you were curious to know. I'll try my best to answer, although I apologize for any delays. m( _ _ )m; I don't get notifications anymore when someone posts (I used to - what's up with MAL?) and I don't check often because the community is so quiet.

Nice to meet you!

Welcome RandomAsianGuy also!! To answer your questions, there is no way to find out what happens after Season 2 - because nothing exists afterwards. Both the manga and anime stop at the same place, and no new Kenpuchou video games or radio dramas were released since (at least to my current knowledge, though I admit I haven't kept as up-to-date as I once did).

Yes, TM is a franchise built around the original video games. Unfortunately, the VGs were never released outside of Japan. The only way to learn about it is to purchase from retailers in Japan, or talk to someone who has played it. I only know Zach over at LiveJournal, and he's shared a lot of the backstory for the prequel and character details at the Tokyo Majin Community there.
 
May 2, 2013 6:54 PM

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Im not sure if you went over it but I tried to skim over to see and didnt find anything.

What is your ideas on Claire, She was one of my favorite characters even before the switch to the good side. Her ending seems to be the most harsh, By herself, Blind and just wanting to be with Tatsuma. It was kinda of disappointing to see her that way and not getting any closure on it.

Thoughts about her?
 
Jun 2, 2013 10:20 PM

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Hey there, BozoThyClown! ( ´ ▽ ` )ノ Thanks for joining us, and making an effort in the group. It's nice to hear from people every now and again.

I really liked Claire, and that says a lot because I typically do not care for female characters, and especially the kawaii Lolita types. I admit, I do prefer her as the little villainess - I loved her crazed anger and the way she clashed with Tendou (I even wrote a fanfic about it!). But because she was so awesome as an antagonist I could tolerate her as a protagonist... although I really wish her mental transformation was given a longer lapse since her back-story was so deep, but it was understandable. She lost the object of her obsession (Yagyuu) and found a new "saviour" in Tatsuma.

I did get tired of her silly infatuation with Tatsuma. That is, until I read the manga. She's never a villain in the original story. She runs away from her school (Rosenkreuz Academy) and by chance meets Tatsuma - who ultimately saves her from the scientists and teachers of Rosenkreuz, who are corrupted by the Kidou-shuu and turn into demons. Afterwards, she has a major crush on Tatsuma and likewise calls Aoi her "big sister". So the Claire in season two finally embodies her true self, as it were.

What I liked best about her crush on Tatsuma was how ferociously it seemed to make Suzaku fight in the end. I think you're right, she did seem to get the worst ending, losing her hero and "love of her life" and ending up blind. I think she probably went blind because unlike the other Vessels, she'd been using her fire-powers since, apparently, forever - and when she did use them, her eyes bulged out and her body kinda, uh, fell apart.(゜◇゜)The other Vessels were shown as being ill by the end too, but they were new to their powers so not as drained.

She did end up all alone more or less by choice - she went looking for Tatsuma (as best she could in her state). I think the lack of closure for her was another way to tell the audience that Tatsuma was still alive and fighting.

Was there anything specific you wanted to know? She really does have a bigger involvment in the anime so there's not much else to go by in the manga or game, unfortunately.
 
Sep 1, 2013 7:46 AM

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Hello there. I'm new here but I've watched TMGKT multiple times and I saw it the first time when it first came out. This is definitely one of my favorite anime series.

I realize this forum doesn't get much traffic, but I would like to address some comments made here. They are old comments, so please excuse me for coming to the party so late.

hlwar said:
That "Arigatou" is open to interpretation. I don't believe it was an actual message from Tatsuma to Aoi. I think it was the drama club president's message to the rest of the students putting on Romeo and Juliet before. An ironic final message to be left behind after the devastation of Chaos and Yagyuu. Not a vision, but something which Aoi sincerely felt personally, reflecting on her story - and the story the audience just watched. And the finish of Tatsuma's "Thank you" that we did not get to hear, but understood nonetheless. You could also view it as the creators of the franchise telling the fans/audience thanks via Tatsuma. *shrugs*


I also do not think it was an actual message by Tatsuma to Aoi, but considering the whole episode in which it was shown, it seems to be symbolically something Tatsuma himself said (wrote), even though he didn't write it himself.

In the episode it was cut right before Tatsuma managed to say "thank you" with his own voice (hence the chalkboard "is his voice"); this coupled with the ending theme that shows Tatsuma at the very end in the part with "arigatou", it seems quite logical to conclude it was symbolically Tatsuma's message. BUT why didn't Komaki-Anko take it as such? Why did Aoi look at the dress (which Hiyuu was supposed to wear) and then shed a tear after reading the thank you (which was symbolically Hiyuu's message)? I think this is one of the confirmations the series lays out along its path that Tatsuma is Aoi's beloved.

I will continue on that note a bit later.


-Tatsuma's connection with the sakura tree.

I do think the sakura actually became symbolic of Hiyuu himself to the main cast. Hiyuu was the only character in the anime depicted along with a sakura tree. True, other characters were referred to as sakura flowers, but not the tree itself. The cast even said how important Hiyuu's impact was on them, how they wouldn't have even become what they were without Hiyuu. When Aoi and Kyoichi look at the sakura they always recall Hiyuu so it's safe to assume that they have attributed Hiyuu as the sakura tree.


-Hiyuu's cut hand and the connection to Genbu/Kisaragi

I can see why the connection was made since all other vessels except Kisaragi showed clear signs of the gods taking a toll on their bodies. Kisaragi's mark was also on the same hand that was cut off Hiyuu's body. But Hiyuu did get an arm back. Indeed it didn't have the same tattoo on it anymore and Kisaragi didn't show any signs of being fatigued by Genbu, so this is something I cannot really refute nor argue anymore. I will say though that in my opinion I think hlwar is right about the connection to Genbu NOT being severed.


-Kyoichi and Aoi relationship.

Now we're getting into an interesting topic I noticed after my last time watching this series (which was two days ago, lol). I actually don't think they have romantic feelings for one another, and even if they did, Kyoichi wouldn't do anything about it. Here's why: Kyoichi seems to be the rock of the group. He's like an immovable mountain and very vital to the whole group. But due to that he's also everyone's sort of "big brother". Kyoichi is the only one who doesn't have unresolved spiritual issues. Daigo's issue is him "betraying" his friend and having a crappy dad, Komaki is just hysterical actually, Hiyuu's parents got killed and he has been without friends his whole life, Aoi feels guilty for not helping her friend in the fire and carries a lot of responsibility.

Yes, Kyoichi's father did die, but honestly Kyoichi seems to have gotten over it. He even conquered his weakness back when one of the Kenbu almost killed him. When someone needs something to look up on, they look at Kyoichi. When someone needs an extra push to get over their current issues of low confidence (Komaki and Sakura situation where Komaki couldn't pull herself together over Sakura; Hiyuu's parents dying and Kyoichi snapping Hiyuu back to reality; Aoi's overburdance by everyone else's problems and getting acknowledgment from Kyoichi that she did enough in s2ep10) they go to Kyoichi! Kyoichi doesn't really seem like a love candidate to Aoi anymore, he's more like a big brother.

Indeed, Kyoichi did give Aoi his sheath but he also gave it to Anko. Indeed, Kyoichi didn't say what Aoi was in s2e10, but considering the context it didn't seem like Kyoichi was trying to say he loved her, but rather something more straight forward (like Kyoichi did always), such as Aoi not being able to help with Hiyuu's situation when Aoi tried to go with him, and being too important to the other people for her to leave (which actually could be one of the reasons why she snapped because she was tired of it).

Then why did Aoi so desperately want to go with Kyoichi if not because of love? I'll tell you why, Komaki wasn't really that fair to Aoi. She kept bombarding Aoi with her own personal problems even when Aoi was faced with her own problems. Aoi constantly took the weight of the world on her shoulders (something stated by Kyoichi as well in s2e10) and helped everyone else deal with their problems. Who helped Aoi? Hiyuu and Kyoichi, not Komaki ;)
What Aoi was afraid of was that she would be crushed by everyone else's problems, that she would have to do all the protecting and not be protected herself (which Hiyuu and Kyoichi did). She needed Kyoichi there to be the rock he always was to everyone. Without Kyoichi who would help Aoi deal with her problems? What would Aoi have to look up to and rely on if not Kyoichi? Aoi bursting had more to do with fatigue and overburdance than actual romantic love towards Kyoichi. I admit she may confuse her feelings as love, but here's where I trust Kyoichi works as the reality check.


-Aoi and Tatsuma.

This pairing was pretty much confirmed in the series. In season 1 at the end it's clear that Tatsuma was really the only one capable of drawing Aoi back to reality. They share a bond much more than friends so Tatsuma was really the only one. In season 2 when Maria was looking at Aoi trying to say something to Hiyuu, Maria mentioned what Aoi was trying to say: For Aoi and Hiyuu to run away together and leave that mess behind. Why didn't Aoi say that then? I can't really say for certain if it was due to Aoi's own realization of how irresposbile it would be to leave the mess behind, or if it was Hiyuu's sixth sense realizing what Aoi was trying to say and kindly pointing out to her that they can't do that; but she thought it nonetheless.

Aoi also got jealous of Hiyuu when he was dating the dead girl out of guilt. She is very mature though so she won't show her jealousy any more than she did. At the end of season 1 Aoi stuck to Hiyuu like Marie Claire did in season 2, and kindly showed her amusement over Marie Claire being so clingy to Hiyuu (but didn't show jealousy as she did with the dead girl, so she never really saw Marie as a valid candidate for Hiyuu's love, most probably due to Hiyuu's own lack of interest). Not to mention the whole scar showing thing she did with Hiyuu (and no one else). At the end of season 2 she seems unable to get Hiyuu out of her mind, going constantly to the sakura tree to be reminded of Hiyuu and even NEEDING to get Hiyuu back. The very end of season 2 seems to be a confirmation of how much she misses Hiyuu. She didn't shed a tear for Kyoichi after all. Furthermore I read that in the mangas and the games it's more obvious Aoi loves Hiyuu, and one of the mangas was made after the anime.

And the final nail on the coffin: Official artwork depicting Aoi and Tatsuma getting married.


-So who's Kyoichi's lover?

Hard to say. He seems to me like he's the Miyamoto Musashi of the group, trying to better himself, a true warrior who just may want to end up alone. But there were little hints here and there. At first I didn't consider Anko a candidate but after Kyoichi giving her the sheath, her wanting a picture, and then looking at the picture for a long period of time even after Kyoichi came back makes me think she has romantic feelings for him. Does Kyoichi think the same? I honestly don't think so. I would like it though since Koyichi is an amazing character and it would be nice to see him happy, but he has that warrior shtick working too well for him.

Another candidate could be one of the miko sisters. The Aoi mk2 (who shoots a bow I think) admitted she had feelings for someone, I tried to think who it may be but couldn't think of a single guy she interacted with... Except Kyoichi. She went behind Komaki mk2 when Kyoichi looked at her, and Komaki mk2 interpreted the situation as her sister being frightened. But was she just shy? It's a fairly common anime situation that a girl goes behind something or someone due to a boy and becomes shy.


I tried to base all of my points on objective observations. Hopefully no one gets annoyed or offended by these points :)
 
Sep 9, 2013 2:16 PM

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Hello EmAyEx! Thank you for joining our club and adding to the conversations! It is dead here, but every little bit helps. And wow, those are some clear-cut observations. :)

Official artwork depicting Aoi and Tatsuma getting married.

Where did you see artwork of them getting married? (O_o) Unless you mistook the prom picture?

Anyway, the anime decided to throw in so many romantic oblique allusions for Aoi it's a little frustrating for fans. That was probably their intention since they discarded a number of characters from the multiverse. Yet the manga the anime is based on clearly represents Aoi and Tatsuma as the pairing. (Like you mentioned - which you probably read somewhere from me because, sadly, I think I'm the only English-speaker who talks about this series as a whole. ><)

BUT this is because in the manga Kyouichi is paired with Arisa Fujisaki. She was left out of the anime, and instead the staff decided to focus conflicted feelings towards Aoi.

The miko sister you're talking about, Hinano Oribe, is alluded to have feelings for Hisui Kisaragi.
 
Mar 21, 2014 8:00 PM

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I just finished up the show, and I'm so grateful I found this thread. The open ending would've driven me nuts trying to figure out what happened to everyone!

Gotta agree with a lot of the theories here, and wanna throw in my own thoughts.

There were a few references throughout the show about Tatsuma being asleep, so Kyoichi saying he'll "wake him up" makes me think that in order for Tatsuma to hold back/stop Yagyuu, he had to "sleep" in some form. Maybe he even knew of the sacrifice he had to make (and being unable to return to his friends), judging by his expression right before he disappeared.

There's also definitely some sort of connection between Tatsuma and Kyoichi. The very first day in class, Kyoichi ran right up to him and started fighting. There's probably some deep meaning for this connection, but I'm certain Kyoichi didn't come up with Tatsuma's location by accident.

I'm also wondering: what exactly is Yagyuu's power? Based on how he was targeting the Yin/Yang Vessels, perhaps the reason he's lived so long is that he's had experience with them in the past (and maybe even was partially successful - enough to give him immortality). We even see that after absorbing Ryuuji, he became younger (although I'm not sure if that's just because Ryuuji himself was young when they merged).

At the end it seems like he completely absorbed the Yin/Black Dragon from Ryuuji. His left eye has a weird slit and seems to be the source of his power, and we see that at the end, Ryuuji is sealed up with charms and they cover his left eye (and missing an arm and a leg). Perhaps having his power stolen made him "unstable" in a way and they had to seal him? Considering the Yin is an existence that wasn't meant to exist at the same time as the Yang, this probably made him even more "unstable" than he may have already been. Perhaps being disabled and in a wheelchair was a sign of that instability.

Assuming Yagyuu has stolen the Yin, this kinda makes it seem poetic in a way, seeing as there's no foreseeable end to the anime/manga:
Tatsuma, the Yang, stuck in an eternal (but balanced) fight with Yagyuu, the Yin.

(Also did Aoi lose her eye or was it just healing? I couldn't tell)
Modified by Vysarine, Mar 21, 2014 8:49 PM
 
Jun 18, 2014 9:21 PM

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I finished this anime a few hours ago and like many others disliked the way it ended. The final epic fight unfinished, my favorite character by far, tatsuma, gone (forever? no way to know). Anyways, I read this whole thread and had something to ask. I saw some people wondering how Kyouchi knew that tatsuma was in China. and raito (lightning boy right? some of the names are hard for me to remember :x) leaving for a tour.

Now my question is. There was a scene in the anime, season 2 episode 10, in which boy raito and Kyouchi are demanding the truth from the old master and uh the guy that's with him. I just assumed that it was these two who told both raito and kyouchi that tatsuma was still fighting somewhere in China. From the confusion I read in the first thread of this topic, I'm beginning to think my initial assumption was wrong.

Also wanted to say, lot of helpful insight in here! It just sucks that this will probably never get the closure that would have made it, in my opinion, one of the best animes I've seen :/
 
Dec 5, 2014 2:29 PM

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Hey guys! Just checking in. I apologize for my long absence but I don't visit MAL much anymore, mostly because I don't get to watch new titles to archive. Anyway, it is awesome to see folks still interested in Tokyo Majin.

Thanks for adding your thoughts everyone! To Vysarine, I don't think Yagyuu has a specific power. Let's just call him a Master of the Dark Arts, an all-around magician. (^_~) But I have to agree with your thoughts, I do think he was leeching power off his underlings; he is usually depicted as the goading force behind the Kidou-shuu cult. The slit in his eye, I believe, is from fighting Tatsuma's father, when he was sealed the first time, and it's true it seems his lifelong, ultimate goal was absorbing the powers of the Golden Dragon. In Tatsuma's time, there is the existence of the Yin Dragon, which became his new target. So I think all your theories are correct.

Also, regarding Aoi, I can't tell for certain, either. I too thought it was just healing, but she might just keep it covered because it shows the Bodhisattva Eye sign (the ying yang symbol, was it?) after her power awakened. We don't know.

tom2991, yeah, one of the eternal questions: how did they know Tatsuma was in China? I don't think anything concrete was offered. It was possible Ryuuzan Arai (the old guy) told them, because I think Ryuuji was connected to Tatsuma and would know; but the other Stars of Fate would then also know because of their connection, hence Kisaragi going with Kyouichi. And I don't think Raito knew where Tatsuma was. I think he merely made the decision to go look for him on his own.

It's one of those up-in-the-air topics. I don't think we're meant to know for sure. All they wanted to do was continue the eternal balancing act of the Ying and Yang, sell more video games in the franchise and keep the door open for a possible sequel. What they really wanted us to realize was that Tatsuma's friends never stopped hoping to bring him home safe. End on that positive message.
 
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