dioptase said: Meta-Battler said to Ange in the ??? that their parents were not bad people. The only way for Battler to make his parents not complete monsters is to explain their motives. Pretty much, Not only motives but possibly hidden messages between the characters actions. For instance the way Kyrie acted (and the stuff she said) after she found out Rudolf's death is an example. From that scene it gave you the impression that she didn't really care much about Rudolf getting killed and moved on (Which heavily contradics what we know about Kyrie's feelings from the previous episodes) although that is most likely a key hint to not take that scene in face value. Battler also said that the truth of what happens in Rokenjima is neither a sad, sorrofull story or a scary story. Considering what we saw in the Tea Party and the fact that were suppose to believe that it's true then I don't see how it can't be "scary" or "sad" at all. I don't believe Battler is going to lie to Ange, one reason is that it would make EP8 quite pointless (to me atleast) if it only consists of Bern's super cruel gameboard and Battler's fake story to please Ange. |
littlegal100Sep 5, 2010 2:37 PM
littlegal100 said: ..... Exactly. Battler will probably give us a different light of the events which will change our perception. See Eva for example, she was portrayed as a ruthless bitch toward Ange in EP3/4 and now she's awesome and the textbook definition of the tragic heroine. EP8 needs to clarify a lot of things: - Backstories of Kyrie, Rudolf and Asumu (please Ryu, we need an Asumu sprite). - All the mess regarding Battler's birth and the baby switch. - Kyrie and Rudolf motives. - What the hell is EXACTLY the meta-world. Nobody agrees upon it. - How does Tohya know so much about the Ushiromiya family? (there's the Tohya is Asumu theory) - What happened to Battler in the end of EP7; it's heavily implied he survived. Battler = Amakusa anyone? - Yasu's gender. littlegal100 said: I don't believe Battler is going to lie to Ange, one reason is that it would make EP8 quite pointless (to me atleast) if it only consists of Bern's super cruel gameboard and Battler's fake story to please Ange. I don't think so either, Meta-Battler promised the full truth. Also, he needs to kick Bern's ass and I'm REALLY looking forward to it. |
| Well maybe the adults were too distracted/amazed at the 10 tons of gold to well dismiss the bomb and the cards or maybe they didn't put it past kinzo to have 900 tons of explossives or something. Although I do admit that at least one person should have noticed something wrong/suspect what Beatrice was claiming. Kyrie (being the most intelligent out of the group) should have noticed something at least.. Fabro said: Well, and then there is the point with the red truth "This is the truth" which could still be something like "This is not the truth.". My cent on that is that Bernkastel taunted Ange, calculated her reaction and let herself interrupt on purpose. That is quite possible consodering the red truth was incomplete. Although Bern wasn't the GM yet so... dioptase said: Also, he needs to kick Bern's ass and I'm REALLY looking forward to it. Hell yeah! It's about time Bern got the ass kicking she deserves! |
| End of the ??? tea party of EP7 (translated): |
| Anybody knows when they're airing the next season? |
  |
TheMcShan said: Anybody knows when they're airing the next season? There's no official announcement yet to my knowledge. EP8 has to be released first, so not before next year anyway. |
| why ask about the anime in a VN discussion thread though O_o |
Darklight0303 said: why ask about the anime in a VN discussion thread though O_o Beats me. On a side note; I found this picture which explains the whole mess with Yasu:  Edit: Better picture! |
dioptaseOct 14, 2010 10:49 AM
| So Shannon is Kanon is Yasu is Beatrice is Lion? |
GarLogan78 said: So Shannon is Kanon is Yasu is Beatrice is Lion? Yes. You can even add Gaap for good measure. |
dioptase said: GarLogan78 said: So Shannon is Kanon is Yasu is Beatrice is Lion? Yes. You can even add Gaap for good measure. Thanks. (Sorry I just finished EP7 so I have a lot of questions). When Kyrie and Rudolf were carrying out the massacre, when Kyrie shot Beatrice, she also "killed" Shannon and Kanon right? This is probably the most stupid question ever..but who is the culprit? Is it Yasu or is it Kyrie and Rudolf? Bern said it red that the game we saw was the truth. But what about all the games where Eva also didn't come back? Were those not true? Was Kinzo also dead at the start of this game, despite appearing at the funeral and before the adults? Was Eva-Beatrice the game master this time? Are we going to see two games next time? Bern's being heartless, and Battler's being kind to Ange or something? |
GarLogan78 said: When Kyrie and Rudolf were carrying out the massacre, when Kyrie shot Beatrice, she also "killed" Shannon and Kanon right? Well, she shot Yasu (the only physical body). Note that when Eva regains consciousness, only the corpses of Natsuhi, Krauss, Hideyoshi and Rosa are mentioned in the room, it kinda implies that Yasu survived. GarLogan78 said: This is probably the most stupid question ever..but who is the culprit? Is it Yasu or is it Kyrie and Rudolf? Yasu is considered as the culprit, at least in the fictions she wrote. On the real Rokkenjima, Kyrie and Rudolf seems to be the actual murderers. GarLogan78 said: Bern said it red that the game we saw was the truth. But what about all the games where Eva also didn't come back? Were those not true? Bern’s red truth was cut mid sentence and red truth is highly context dependent; the TP isn’t necessarily the full truth. This said, all the previous EP were fictions written by Yasu (EP 1&2) and Featherine (the others EP), they are considered “true” because of the whole catbox thing but never happened in reality. GarLogan78 said: Was Kinzo also dead at the start of this game, despite appearing at the funeral and before the adults? Kinzo died in 1984, except in Lion’s world...the miracle kakera and all. GarLogan78 said: Was Eva-Beatrice the game master this time? Assumedly; nobody was. GarLogan78 said: Are we going to see two games next time? Bern's being heartless, and Battler's being kind to Ange or something? Possible, we will have the answer in 10 days when EP8 is out. |
dioptase said: GarLogan78 said: When Kyrie and Rudolf were carrying out the massacre, when Kyrie shot Beatrice, she also "killed" Shannon and Kanon right? Well, she shot Yasu (the only physical body). Note that when Eva regains consciousness, only the corpses of Natsuhi, Krauss, Hideyoshi and Rosa are mentioned in the room, it kinda implies that Yasu survived. What did Yasu do if he/she survived? Did Yasu go to Kuwadorian with Eva or wait until the island blew up? Also, did Battler survive? dioptase said: GarLogan78 said: This is probably the most stupid question ever..but who is the culprit? Is it Yasu or is it Kyrie and Rudolf? Yasu is considered as the culprit, at least in the fictions she wrote. On the real Rokkenjima, Kyrie and Rudolf seems to be the actual murderers. So basically, all of the tales we have been shown so far were just fantasies written by Yasu or Featherine or someone to keep up the "illusion of the witch", but in reality, it was just Kyrie and Rudolf killing everyone for the money no matter which kakera? |
GarLogan78 said: What did Yasu do if he/she survived? Did Yasu go to Kuwadorian with Eva or wait until the island blew up? Also, did Battler survive? Eva survived for sure but Battler’s fate remains unknown. Did Yasu and Battler managed to get out of Rokkenjima alive or not? The question is left open. GarLogan78 said: So basically, all of the tales we have been shown so far were just fantasies written by Yasu or Featherine or someone to keep up the "illusion of the witch", Yup, the bomb obliterated a huge chunk of the island, destroying all the evidences and thus creating the catbox setup. Remember in EP1, the police searched the scene but they just found a part of Maria’s jawbone. Eva, who is the officially sole survivor, locked up the catbox. She never revealed what happened on Rokkenjima, partly to cover up her actions but also to shield Ange from the truth. The whole catbox setting allows you to create tales depicting what may have happened on the island, including a “Witch did it” answer. That’s the "illusion of the witch", in which fantasy and mystery can coexist. Those fictional stories cover up the “brutal truth” (the real event). Yasu’s bottled letters and Featherine forgeries are among the endless stories possible. You can even create your own fanfiction if you want; you just have to respect the mystery (the heart of Beatrice). GarLogan78 said: but in reality, it was just Kyrie and Rudolf killing everyone for the money no matter which kakera? Did they really kill just for money? Will bitched because the TP was heartless, without any “whydunnit”. |
| Thanks for all the clarification! |
GarLogan78 said: Was Eva-Beatrice the game master this time? There's Eva's favourite sentence "why don't you just give up and die!?" in the beginning. Some argue that the Tea Party was Eva's interpretation of the events. It's a distorted version of the Truth, twisted by hatred and sorrow after all those years. |
| I was trying to think about Umineko last night, but I just confused myself and got a headache. So I have another few questions (more broad than just EP7 though) So NOTHING from the first 6 games actually happened? ALL if it was just a story in the cat box? If so, what was the point of seeing it? When will all of the taillights from all of the games be explained? I don't really understand Wright's "Illusions to Illusions" answers. Also, if Kyrie and Rudolf killed everyone, and all the stories of the witch are not true, then why did Beatrice select Battler to go to the meta world and play the games? And can someone clarify to me exactly how and what the meta world is? |
GarLogan78 said: So NOTHING from the first 6 games actually happened? ALL if it was just a story in the cat box? If so, what was the point of seeing it? The events depicted during the 2 days of the family conference are fictional, not the rest (like Rosa witnessing Beatrice II death). The whole point of the previous episodes is to give you clues in order to solve the mystery, and the mystery has always been about Beatrice. So all the episodes contain a part of the truth. Another thing is the “people can be saved if they are understood”: the fictions gave us huge character development as well allowed us to understand the Ushiromiyas, which would have been impossible if we saw directly the bare bone events. GarLogan78 said: When will all of the taillights from all of the games be explained? I don't really understand Wright's "Illusions to Illusions" answers. “Illusions to Illusions” = magic bullshit. Like EP1 second twilight: the chain was simply never set. GarLogan78 said: Also, if Kyrie and Rudolf killed everyone, and all the stories of the witch are not true, then why did Beatrice select Battler to go to the meta world and play the games? And can someone clarify to me exactly how and what the meta world is? The mystery was literally tailored for Battler, so it’s not really surprising. As for the Meta-world, I don’t think anybody can give you a clear answer yet. I see it as some kind of “world of concepts”. |
dioptase said: “Illusions to Illusions” = magic bullshit. Like EP1 second twilight: the chain was simply never set. I see. So pretty much all of the magical closed rooms and stuff were not magical at all? The doors were never really locked, people were never really in an impossible situation, etc? |
dioptase said: “Illusions to Illusions” = magic bullshit. Like EP1 second twilight: the chain was simply never set. I personally find that prety sad. Really. I hoped for tricks etc. |
GarLogan78 said: I see. So pretty much all of the magical closed rooms and stuff were not magical at all? The doors were never really locked, people were never really in an impossible situation, etc? CruelAngel said: I personally find that prety sad. Really. I hoped for tricks etc. It's all tricks & lies since magic doesn't exist. See this for example: "First game, fifth twilight. The last moments of the sacrificed boy with a stake in his chest." "Illusions to illusions. ......The witch and stake of illusions can pierce naught but illusions." The solution is obvious: Kanon was never really stabbed, he just pretended to. Nanjo is an accomplice, he lied and said that Kanon succumbed to his injury. |
| ^ So we can safely assume Kanon was the culprit in the first game? |
 |
| You can solve EP1-4 with Yasu as the culprit (with probably some murders committed by Eva or Kyrie + Rudolf in between during the 3rd and 4th games). |
| Kinzo, in the original flashback, said he was against stealing the Italian's gold. He just wanted to live happily with Beatrice or whatever. But, when Bern is tearing out the cuts, we see a brief scene of someone saying something like "you want to steal the Italian's gold, Ushiromiya?" and stuff... So what really happened in the past? Did it play out like Kinzo said, or did he twist the truth? Did he really start the bloodbath? |
GarLogan78 said: So what really happened in the past? Did it play out like Kinzo said, or did he twist the truth? Did he really start the bloodbath? Kinzo might have suggested to steal the gold but I don't think he started the whole thing (well maybe, I wouldn't put it past him...). I think Kinzo's version is what he actually believes, he convinced himself over the years that the events went how he says. |
dioptase said: GarLogan78 said: So what really happened in the past? Did it play out like Kinzo said, or did he twist the truth? Did he really start the bloodbath? Kinzo might have suggested to steal the gold but I don't think he started the whole thing (well maybe, I wouldn't put it past him...). I think Kinzo's version is what he actually believes, he convinced himself over the years that the events went how he says. It is just really hard for me to understand what happened because SO MUCH of Umineko is subjective. |
| More questions. Regarding EP5 in relation to what we have learned from EP7... My memory is a little fuzzy about EP5. Did the adults fake the first twilight or was it real? If it was faked, why? And if it was real, did Kyrie do it? And why were there murders since Erika solved the Epitaph? Also, why was Hideyoshi killed? |
| I'm making Umineko EP7 commentary. >_> From beginning to end. http://chocolatesyrupywaffles.com/?p=30524 <-- pt. 1 http://chocolatesyrupywaffles.com/?p=30663 <-- pt. 2 and 3 http://chocolatesyrupywaffles.com/?p=30683 <-- pt. 4 and 5 http://chocolatesyrupywaffles.com/?p=30703 <-- Pt. 6 (45 mins long this time) I'll be posting updates everyday, 2 parts each. Youtube's a whore that won't allow past 15 minutes. Edit: So Youtube had a change of heart and allowed me to post videos beyond 15 minutes. Which is good. So now i won't have to do only 15 minutes per gameplay. |
JubbzDec 31, 2010 2:06 PM
 |
Shiyumi said: GarLogan78 said: So Shannon is Kanon is Yasu is Beatrice is Lion? So George,Jessica,Battler which one Yasu love or it three of them. Yasu loves Battler. Shanon loves George. Kanon loves Jessica. And this is pretty much the source of the main conflict. |
Shiyumi said: So George,Jessica,Battler which one Yasu love or it three of them. Jessica has a silly crush on Yasu (as Kanon); while Yasu (as Shannon) is engaged to George but has still feelings for Battler (as Beatrice). Said like this, Umineko looks like a soap. |
| I still don't get how could Yasu pull of Kanon. Jessica and Natsuhi can't be that dumb, to not to notice. |
| Natsuhi is utterly delusional so yeah. Jessica on the other hand.... Guess what? |
dioptase said: Natsuhi is utterly delusional so yeah. Jessica on the other hand.... Guess what? Nothing about Jessica? Or nothing at all? |
| Nothing about Jessica. It's closed in the catbox forever, unless Rei proves me wrong. |
| What had to be explained about her specifically? I can't really think of any loose ends with her. |
GarLogan78 said: Nothing in special really... except how on Earth could she really believe Kanon exists?What had to be explained about her specifically? I can't really think of any loose ends with her. |
CruelAngel said: GarLogan78 said: Nothing in special really... except how on Earth could she really believe Kanon exists?What had to be explained about her specifically? I can't really think of any loose ends with her. "Oh Kanon-kun, you're so dark and mysterious... and TOTALLY NOT SHANNON WEARING PANTS." |
CruelAngel said: GarLogan78 said: Nothing in special really... except how on Earth could she really believe Kanon exists?What had to be explained about her specifically? I can't really think of any loose ends with her. lol true. I don't know. A lot of people think she is just really stupid right? |
CruelAngel said: It's not "Yasu" pretending to be Kanon and Shannon and whatnot. Shannon and Kanon are different people who happen to share a body. It's not like there's a "main" or "real" personality, or anything like that. So in that sense it's not like Jessica and Natsuhi are even being fooled. Yasu her/him/itself believes that all of its various pieces are different people.I still don't get how could Yasu pull of Kanon. Jessica and Natsuhi can't be that dumb, to not to notice. It is a little bit strange that Jessica wouldn't notice, but still easily believable. Maybe "Yasu" is a great makeup artist, for instance. Also, remember that Jessica interacts with Kanon VERY rarely, and with Shannon only when Natsuhi is away. |
naikou said: Yasu her/him/itself believes that all of its various pieces are different people. Yeah, allow me to disagree on that point. Yasu doesn’t believe in her own bullshit; see the part with Maria and Beatrice. However, Yasu sure has a vivid imagination and loves play acting. |
| I don't really know which part with Maria and Beatrice you're referring to, heh. The part where they have nice tea parties in the rose garden? Or one of the specific murder instances? See, though, I don't think it's bullshit it at all. Kanon, Shannon, and Beatrice are distinct individuals. Different names, different behavior, different forms. What is the critical difference between people, if not these? Surely you agree that a body (or vessel, if you will) is not the important part - you are made of none of the same substances as when you were 5 years old (or at least, very little), yet you are the same person. Make no mistake - "Yasu" (there is no such person, really) is fully aware that there are 3 people sharing a container, and that "Yasu" herself created all three of them. That does not diminish the fact that all three really are distinct people. |
| Yup, the part when Beatrice (or Yasu, as you wish) interacts with Maria and more or less admits that the whole magic + imaginary friends thingy is pretty pathetic at her age. She plays along with Maria. naikou said: "Yasu" (there is no such person, really) Hum "Yasu" -> Yasuda Sayo (Shannon being her servant name). naikou said: That does not diminish the fact that all three really are distinct people. I don't think they are really distinct people, just different aspects of the same personality. The parts with Claire/Beato and Shannon look more like inner conversations with herself, Beatrice being the daydreaming part of her personality, believing in miracles and all. That explains why the Beatrice part became "dormant" when Yasu grew up: we all stop believing in Santa at some point. |
Yup, the part when Beatrice (or Yasu, as you wish) interacts with Maria and more or less admits that the whole magic + imaginary friends thingy is pretty pathetic at her age. She plays along with Maria. I don't remember that, my memory is bad.But Beatrice's belief in magic/imaginary friends is worlds away from the Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice issue, so don't conflate the two issues. Think about it this way: suppose, from a very early age, you pretended to be two different people. Eventually, you become equally capable of acting as either person depending on the situation. Is one of those personalities "fake"? Are you deluding yourself that one of those personalities exists? No. In my opinion, you are literally two different people. The issue of shared memories muddles things a bit, but still. dioptase said: Well yeah... but Shannon is not really "Yasu". The original Yasu as seen in EP7 eventually became Beatrice. So talking about someone named Yasu confuses things, since I don't know whether you're talking about the original Yasu, or Beatrice, or Shannon (different people! I insist!).Hum "Yasu" -> Yasuda Sayo (Shannon being her servant name). dioptase said: No, no, Beatrice never became dormant. She continued to play pranks like opening windows, and making creepy formations in the dining room, and talking to Maria, and solving the epitaph, and playing tricks on Jessica and the younger servants, etc.That explains why the Beatrice part became "dormant" when Yasu grew up: we all stop believing in Santa at some point. And they are not all aspects of the same personality! If there actually was a "master" personality controlling all the others, or if one of the personalities was dominant, than the serial murders would not have occurred. The motive behind the crime was that Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice could not choose which two of them would die, so they trusted in the roulette of fate to see how things turned out. If Battler hadn't shown up in 1986, then it would have simply been a decision between Shannon and Kanon, so the crimes would either not have occurred, or else occurred on a much, much smaller scale. 1986 is a problem, because that is the year George proposed, so they HAD to make a choice about who gets the vessel that year. |
naikou said: o, no, Beatrice never became dormant. She continued to play pranks like opening windows, and making creepy formations in the dining room, and talking to Maria, and solving the epitaph, and playing tricks on Jessica and the younger servants, etc. That mainly happened between 1983 and 1986. Anyway, Shannon brushed aside Beatrice for a while, remember when Claire invited Shannon to her tea party and Shannon politely declined? Makes sense again if you consider Beato as an inner part of Shannon; symbolising her dreams, wishes, childish part (the pranks) etc. Sometimes they bubble up to the surface but that’s it. Note that when Shannon says “fuck this” regarding her relationship with Battler, her love for him is turned into an unobtainable fantasy, or if you prefer: she transfers it to Beatrice. Beatrice is some kind of closet for Yasu. She stores inside the things she values but wants to move on from: pipe dreams, things she's outgrown. naikou said: The motive behind the crime was that Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice could not choose which two of them would die, so they trusted in the roulette of fate to see how things turned out. If Battler hadn't shown up in 1986, then it would have simply been a decision between Shannon and Kanon, so the crimes would either not have occurred, or else occurred on a much, much smaller scale. 1986 is a problem, because that is the year George proposed, so they HAD to make a choice about who gets the vessel that year. Agree. Her inner mess (plus the whole gender issue) is the origin of the problem. I think the EP6’s love duel is a hint, Battler was gone and it ended in Shannon's victory because her relationship with George was stronger than Kanon's with Jessica. After all, Kanon was just created by Yasu to help her cope; he would have indeed disappeared when Yasu had sorted out her feelings. Yasu’s main ordeal is the fact Battler returned in 1986. She would have settled with George and left the island in 1987. On the other hand, if Battler had returned a year earlier, she would have gone with him instead. Battler coming back in 1986 was the worst case possible for Yasu and it derailed her feelings again. That’s why she gave the letter to Maria; I see it as some kind of last chance for Battler. They both liked mysteries, so it was pretty much tailored for him. The roulette of Fate indeed…and then the adults solved the epitaph. |
| Seems like the only point we disagree on is whether or not there is a central Yasu personality making decisions. I don't think there is, and you do (although I agree that she probably spends most of the time as Shannon). I'm going to argue that Ryukishi would agree with me. If you look at how he treats Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice in terms of the red text, you'll see that he treats them actually as people, and not just as personalities. He also gave the "name and form" discussion between Maria and Beatrice during EP7, as well as Jessica's hint which was something like "think of an ideal model for yourself, and you can become that person". As another hypothetical: Suppose today you decided to change your name, change your personality, change your behavior, change your appearance, and change your perception of your past. If you successfully accomplished all that, would you be a different person? Really and truly, a different individual? I would say "yes", and I suspect Ryukishi would as well. |
naikou said: Seems like the only point we disagree on is whether or not there is a central Yasu personality making decisions. I don't think there is, and you do Indeed. Well, I "blame" Ryukishi for not being clear. I guess it's fair, as he said he wouldn't explain everything. The whole deal around Yasu is pretty much open to interpretation. Like you said, I consider Yasu (Shannon) as the main persona, and she acts as Beato or Kanon when needed (or when she feels like it?) naikou said: I'm going to argue that Ryukishi would agree with me. If you look at how he treats Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice in terms of the red text, you'll see that he treats them actually as people, and not just as personalities. Oddly enough, Beatrice doesn't seem to count as a person with the red text, while Shannon and Kanon do. See the "Even if you do join us- There are 17 people. " at the end of EP6. Probably because Beato isn't recognized as a person by the other people on the island, unlike Shannon and Kanon. naikou said: As another hypothetical: [...] Really and truly, a different individual? I would say "yes", and I suspect Ryukishi would as well. Yes he would, given what we learn in EP8. I still consider it's a cheap way to go around the red text, but that's how it is. /just my 2 cents. |
dioptase said: No - 17 would mean you have to exclude either Kanon or Shannon, right?Oddly enough, Beatrice doesn't seem to count as a person with the red text, while Shannon and Kanon do. See the "Even if you do join us- There are 17 people. " at the end of EP6. Probably because Beato isn't recognized as a person by the other people on the island, unlike Shannon and Kanon. I think that line of red text is tricky, though. There are a maximum of 17 people at one time, but there are a total of 19 different people. You need a form to constitute a person, so Kanon doesn't count any more than Gaap counts unless "Yasu" happens to be Kanon at that point in time. dioptase said: If you have a different interpretation of what it means to be a person, then Umineko will seem unfair. I'd be interested in hearing your theory of personal identity if you don't agree with Ryukishi's.I still consider it's a cheap way to go around the red text, but that's how it is. The neat thing is, though, that Ryukishi's interpretation is philosophically valid. I don't see any problems with it personally. It's not even an unconventional way of looking at things. We say things like "I'm not the same person I was in high school", or "starting from today, I am a new man!". It's the same concept. |
dioptase said: [ Oddly enough, Beatrice doesn't seem to count as a person with the red text, while Shannon and Kanon do. See the "Even if you do join us- There are 17 people. " at the end of EP6. Probably because Beato isn't recognized as a person by the other people on the island, unlike Shannon and Kanon. So this always confused me. The 17 people are... 01 Battler 02 Maria 03 Jessica 04 George 50 Eva 06 Hideyoshi 07 Kyrie 08 Rudolf 09 Gohda 10 Nanjo 11 Rosa 12 Natsuhi 13 Krauss 14 Kumasawa 15 Genji 16 Shkannon 17 Erika |
More topics from this board
» Your favorite character^^ ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )tsumu - Jul 21, 2009 |
253 |
by LeonhartAugust
»»
Jun 4, 2021 11:18 AM |
|
» Favorite CouplesGamzeeMakara - Aug 28, 2010 |
43 |
by Suzuka
»»
May 23, 2018 12:10 PM |
|
» Least favorite characters ( 1 2 3 )z-pak - Aug 21, 2009 |
132 |
by Suzuka
»»
May 14, 2018 2:44 PM |
|
» Shkanontrice confirmed?? *spoilerRazuhiko - Apr 26, 2014 |
1 |
by Alencia
»»
Apr 29, 2014 6:18 AM |
|
» Umineko Motion GraphicsNiacinamide - Dec 18, 2007 |
29 |
by Krunchy
»»
Feb 15, 2014 10:46 AM |