| Which is $10,000 a year that is insanely low source: http://kotaku.com/the-average-anime-salary-in-japan-is-shockingly-low-1700892325 |
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| There are some organizations supporting them .. But still their living standards are really very low.. |
"They say that if you change yourself, you'll change the world, but that's a complete lie. They're just forcing you to compromise by feeding you a convenient little fib. Let me show you how to really change the world." -Hikigaya Hachiman |
| Oh and just a friendly reminder , Don't follow that site ... Its the epitome of cancer which does not represent Real anime community at all and says rubbish many of the times.. |
"They say that if you change yourself, you'll change the world, but that's a complete lie. They're just forcing you to compromise by feeding you a convenient little fib. Let me show you how to really change the world." -Hikigaya Hachiman |
kazuro said: It's the first thing that popped up on google my badOh and just a friendly reminder , Don't follow that site ... Its the epitome of cancer which does not represent Real anime community at all and says rubbish many of the times.. |
|
| i guess they don't go out too much? heu |
"Urushibara Ruka. The mannerisms and voice of a woman... No... More feminine than any woman. But he's a guy. Taller than Mayuri, but so very thin... But he's a guy. Looks great in a miko outfit... But he's a guy. It's already twilight And yet, it's so hot. The cicadas are crying. But... He's a guy." |
Kwebi said: kazuro said: It's the first thing that popped up on google my badOh and just a friendly reminder , Don't follow that site ... Its the epitome of cancer which does not represent Real anime community at all and says rubbish many of the times.. Yeah but its really true that animators are paid very less compared to the work they do ... So much that If they had better salaries we could even be getting many more sequels of many anime... |
"They say that if you change yourself, you'll change the world, but that's a complete lie. They're just forcing you to compromise by feeding you a convenient little fib. Let me show you how to really change the world." -Hikigaya Hachiman |
kazuro said: Kwebi said: It's the first thing that popped up on google my bad Yeah but its really true that animators are paid very less compared to the work they do ... So much that If they had better salaries we could even be getting many more sequels of many anime... or maybe they would get lazy and live off the there money for longer/? |
| "Urushibara Ruka. The mannerisms and voice of a woman... No... More feminine than any woman. But he's a guy. Taller than Mayuri, but so very thin... But he's a guy. Looks great in a miko outfit... But he's a guy. It's already twilight And yet, it's so hot. The cicadas are crying. But... He's a guy." |
| Huh... Considering Japan is even more expensive than the US, how the fuck are they even alive? |
| I remember reading somewhere that a lot of animators get supported by their families. It really sucks that their salary is so low :( |
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| Don't studios offer them free food and accommodation? |
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| Meh now i feel bad to pirate everything from them, but on the other hand they don't give a damn about "western barbarians", so whatever... |
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Swagernator said: rip Meh now i feel bad to pirate everything from them, but on the other hand they don't give a damn about "western barbarians", so whatever... kazuro said: and much better production qualityKwebi said: It's the first thing that popped up on google my bad Yeah but its really true that animators are paid very less compared to the work they do ... So much that If they had better salaries we could even be getting many more sequels of many anime... |
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Kwebi said: Which is $10,000 a year that is insanely low source: http://kotaku.com/the-average-anime-salary-in-japan-is-shockingly-low-1700892325 * Pulls out a calculator, converts to US dollars and to yearly income. * That's actually more than I earn. And I consider myself to be having a reasonably good salary and living a decent life. Well, I guess I'm living in a hellhole. On the good side, I don't feel so bad about pirating anymore. |
Kwebi said: Which is $10,000 a year that is insanely low source: http://kotaku.com/the-average-anime-salary-in-japan-is-shockingly-low-1700892325 Lol. In Poland (real) average yearly earnings =~ $6.750 and we have western prices for electronics, games, music etc. How the hell most of people lives in my country? Example: $562,5 monthly salary and average pc game costs ~$50-60. Fortunately I'm closer to Japanese yearly earnings, but most of people not. |
rsc-plDec 28, 2016 3:06 AM
| Dub = fake crap. Always. |
Kwebi said: Which is $10,000 a year that is insanely low source: http://kotaku.com/the-average-anime-salary-in-japan-is-shockingly-low-1700892325 Maybe you should search for more concrete source like from JAniCA or ask someone else who knows this matter more than kotaku. For example people on sakugabooru. www.blog.sakugabooru.com Also maybe you'll be interested in reading this interview with Toshiyuki Inoue. He's a true animator to the core, not interested in anything other than drawing key animation, while his peer like Okiura and Iso start working as Director, he still prefer doing animation til now. PA WORKS: I think many people enter this line of work simply hoping to earn enough to put food on the table. Nobody becomes an animator to get rich. If you want to improve that situation - so at least people think they might be able to earn enough to buy a house and not just scrape by - I think people have to start thinking of themselves more as workers in this sector of industry, so to speak. Company policy should do something to reinforce that consciousness. Inoue: But people today are definitely more concerned about the pay than before. In my day I never worried about whether I'd make enough to eat, because I saw that other people were eating, so I assumed I could too. I was just happy to be able to work in animation, so I didn't care if I even made enough to eat - I loved it that much. That might not have been a good thing. I probably should have thought about it more seriously, as a way of earning a living. Anyway, I get the feeling there's already more consciousness of what you're saying than there used to be. People have a stronger consciousness of wanting to work in animation and get a good pay for it. But as to whether they're putting in the commensurate effort, I'm not so sure. There's a feeling of wanting more pay for the same amount of work. It's accepted without question that the unit price is in animation today is too low. It's certainly low, but to a certain extent it feels like they're hiding behind that as an excuse for why they're not earning enough. The unit price is much better than it used to be. ..... PA WORKS: I know you work on a fixed salary for films, but what surprises me is that someone of your skills still does piecework, with a fixed price per shot. The upshot is that you earn less per key, but still have to draw just as much. You've already done so much to contribute to raising the quality of films and keeping them on schedule, so why don't you focus on salary work, which would allow you to do less volume and focus on raising the quality? Inoue: Well... the reason is simple. I just want to draw as much as possible. You're right that if I did that, I'd make more per drawing, and then I'd be able to spend my time more as I wanted. But would I use that extra time to focus on improving other areas? No. Because in the end all I'm interested in is drawing as many good shots as possible. I've never even thought about the money. If you do it the right way, the money will follow. That money would have absolutely no effect on the way I do things. http://www.pelleas.net/aniTOP/index.php/toshiyuki_inoue_interview_part_2 |
kyuudereDec 28, 2016 3:38 AM
rsc-pl said: Well shit I might as well move over there roflKwebi said: Which is $10,000 a year that is insanely low source: http://kotaku.com/the-average-anime-salary-in-japan-is-shockingly-low-1700892325 Lol. In Poland (real) average yearly earnings =~ $6.750 and we have western prices for electronics, games, music etc. How the hell most of people lives in my country? Example: $562,5 monthly salary and average pc game costs ~$50-60. Fortunately I'm closer to Japanese yearly earnings, but most of people not. |
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Kwebi said: Swagernator said: rip Meh now i feel bad to pirate everything from them, but on the other hand they don't give a damn about "western barbarians", so whatever... kazuro said: and much better production qualityYeah but its really true that animators are paid very less compared to the work they do ... So much that If they had better salaries we could even be getting many more sequels of many anime... What? You two even know what you're talking about? Is the complete opposite! If you pay more money to every people in a project it will cost more and so you will do less, not more. If a series cost 10k to make and earns 15k you might think of doing a sequel, costing the same, but if you start paying double your people the project jumps to 20k cost, so earning 15k for it means you lost money, and so forget about doing a sequel. More quality? A guy that receives 10k per year works as much as a guy that earns 20k. Is not because you earn more money that you start working more. In fact the people that receive less are more prone to work more, for 2 reasons. They are working for so low because they really need the money or are passionate enough to receive that little, and so they can be pushed to work more. And people that receive less will work more to jump faster to the increase salary. Also is important to understand that the "animator" area isn't an homogeneous place where everybody receives around the same. You have the entry level works and salary and then you have many other levels and responsibilities. Also you have companies that pay really little and companies that pay a lot. Now instead of the Kotaku source here is 2 better sources that use the Japan Animation Creators Association (JAniCA). In 2013 the average payment for animators was 28,000 per year. So 2,000 per month(counting 14 months). Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-05-15/study-animators-earned-usd28000-on-average-in-japan-in-2013/.87762 Now, entry level animators receive in average 9,200. So 657 per month(Counting 14 months). Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-04-28/study-new-entry-level-animators-earn-usd9200-a-year-in-japan/.87602 This is indeed a really low entry point, though in average a person that endures that entry point and continues in the industry gets a 1,343 dollars salary jump during its career. This is basically that kind of job that in the beginning you need an external support, normally your parents. So we have an idea of the bottom line(9,200 dollars/year - 657 dollars/month) and the medium line(28,000 dollars/year - 2,000 dollars/month), what is missing is the top line. Here it is: Toei Animation Average Salary payment(Warning: Not only animators, but the entire company) Average Salary -> 7.28 Million Yen(Yearly); 520,000 Yen(Monthly, 14 months) (=) Average Salary -> 61,858 dollars/Year - 4,418 dollars/month Source: http://nensyu-labo.com/kigyou_toei_anime.htm So you can expect that a random individual that makes a lifelong career in the anime industry to go from: . 657 dollars -to-> 2,000 dollars -to-> 4,418 dollars. |
bigivelfhqDec 28, 2016 6:03 AM
| I earn around 120,- Euros a month. They should be happy... But then again I work around 2 days a week and 3 hours only. |
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. | You know what I hate the most? People who aren't free. They're no more than cattle. |
| Stay in a tiny apartment and eat nothing but cup ramen I assume. |
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bigivelfhq said: Kwebi said: rip and much better production quality What? You two even know what you're talking about? Is the complete opposite! If you pay more money to every people in a project it will cost more and so you will do less, not more. If a series cost 10k to make and earns 15k you might think of doing a sequel, costing the same, but if you start paying double your people the project jumps to 20k cost, so earning 15k for it means you lost money, and so forget about doing a sequel. More quality? A guy that receives 10k per year works as much as a guy that earns 20k. Is not because you earn more money that you start working more. In fact the people that receive less are more prone to work more, for 2 reasons. They are working for so low because they really need the money or are passionate enough to receive that little, and so they can be pushed to work more. And people that receive less will work more to jump faster to the increase salary. I disagree with you about quality. 1) The trick about quality is that if we double the payment per frame, that guy would (probably) not make the same amount of pictures. He'd start earning about 15k, and making his pictures better. Animators are paid per frame, you know. 2) Depending on how poor animators actually are, better pay might actually increase quality, because the animators will be more healthy. 3) Better pay can hire higher-quality workers. |
flannan said: bigivelfhq said: What? You two even know what you're talking about? Is the complete opposite! If you pay more money to every people in a project it will cost more and so you will do less, not more. If a series cost 10k to make and earns 15k you might think of doing a sequel, costing the same, but if you start paying double your people the project jumps to 20k cost, so earning 15k for it means you lost money, and so forget about doing a sequel. More quality? A guy that receives 10k per year works as much as a guy that earns 20k. Is not because you earn more money that you start working more. In fact the people that receive less are more prone to work more, for 2 reasons. They are working for so low because they really need the money or are passionate enough to receive that little, and so they can be pushed to work more. And people that receive less will work more to jump faster to the increase salary. I disagree with you about quality. 1) The trick about quality is that if we double the payment per frame, that guy would (probably) not make the same amount of pictures. He'd start earning about 15k, and making his pictures better. Animators are paid per frame, you know. 2) Depending on how poor animators actually are, better pay might actually increase quality, because the animators will be more healthy. 3) Better pay can hire higher-quality workers. 1) If he will spend more time per picture, than he will not earn the equivalent of the per frame increase. 2) We are only talking of salary increase, not job conditions. So with the same job conditions, hardly a worker improves its output. Obviously if he has problems like starvation with the previous payment, the increase will improve substantially the quality. Though, remember the reason most people work by such a low wage is because they have external support, mainly parents or the company that provides meals and accommodations. 3) We're talking of increasing the payment of workers, not making contract with new ones. Also normally people in the same work level, receives the same amount of money, the biggest difference between salaries of people in the same "level" is seen when you go higher in the ladder and have more negotiation power. Normally, bigger salaries means more satisfied employees that will stick with the company for longer, not significant bigger quality. Work conditions and the company vision/mission are a way bigger factors for quality, than salary increase. |
| They probably are male escorts at night |
| 한 번만 살지만 제대로 하면 한 번이면 충분해요 |
bigivelfhq said: flannan said: I disagree with you about quality. 1) The trick about quality is that if we double the payment per frame, that guy would (probably) not make the same amount of pictures. He'd start earning about 15k, and making his pictures better. Animators are paid per frame, you know. 2) Depending on how poor animators actually are, better pay might actually increase quality, because the animators will be more healthy. 3) Better pay can hire higher-quality workers. 1) If he will spend more time per picture, than he will not earn the equivalent of the per frame increase. 2) We are only talking of salary increase, not job conditions. So with the same job conditions, hardly a worker improves its output. Obviously if he has problems like starvation with the previous payment, the increase will improve substantially the quality. Though, remember the reason most people work by such a low wage is because they have external support, mainly parents or the company that provides meals and accommodations. 3) We're talking of increasing the payment of workers, not making contract with new ones. Also normally people in the same work level, receives the same amount of money, the biggest difference between salaries of people in the same "level" is seen when you go higher in the ladder and have more negotiation power. Normally, bigger salaries means more satisfied employees that will stick with the company for longer, not significant bigger quality. Work conditions and the company vision/mission are a way bigger factors for quality, than salary increase. 1) Yes, that's what I meant to say. And more time means more quality, right? 2) I do not have the data to make proper speculations. But the "tiny apartment and cup ramen every meal" model surely is not good for health and output of the workers. 3) As you have said, employees stay with company for longer, acquiring more skill and doing a better job. Also note that as amount of anime expands, the workforce must expand too. And with better pay, studios can be more picky about who they hire. 4) At this levels of pay, companies risk the "they pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work" work ethic. |
flannan said: bigivelfhq said: 1) If he will spend more time per picture, than he will not earn the equivalent of the per frame increase. 2) We are only talking of salary increase, not job conditions. So with the same job conditions, hardly a worker improves its output. Obviously if he has problems like starvation with the previous payment, the increase will improve substantially the quality. Though, remember the reason most people work by such a low wage is because they have external support, mainly parents or the company that provides meals and accommodations. 3) We're talking of increasing the payment of workers, not making contract with new ones. Also normally people in the same work level, receives the same amount of money, the biggest difference between salaries of people in the same "level" is seen when you go higher in the ladder and have more negotiation power. Normally, bigger salaries means more satisfied employees that will stick with the company for longer, not significant bigger quality. Work conditions and the company vision/mission are a way bigger factors for quality, than salary increase. 1) Yes, that's what I meant to say. And more time means more quality, right? 2) I do not have the data to make proper speculations. But the "tiny apartment and cup ramen every meal" model surely is not good for health and output of the workers. 3) As you have said, employees stay with company for longer, acquiring more skill and doing a better job. Also note that as amount of anime expands, the workforce must expand too. And with better pay, studios can be more picky about who they hire. 4) At this levels of pay, companies risk the "they pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work" work ethic. Probably you're only talking of the Entry Level salary, the 10k from the OP. Reread the post that I made about salaries. 1) Most people don't take more time doing a drawing when they get an increase. Specially not people that receive little before. If you earned 10k first and your salary was increased to 20k, would you do the same work, receiving the double or would you do just 75% of the work and only receive 15k? 2) It depends on the situation of each person, but most those people live with their parents, or the company(or a foundation) accommodations). They certainly have money to eat more than cup Ramen, though they can have such diet due to other things. Like overwork and being easier and faster to just eat Ramen). Or saving money for other stuff. 3) Again, employee that stay longer in a company already get good salary increases. Please look at my previous post. Paying a newbie double, 20k, would not increase his quality, at least not significantly(unless of course we're assuming all of them have poverty and other types of problem related with short salary). Also increasing a veteran 28k to 56k or a 62k to 104k will not increase his quality, like I said before, at least not significantly. People get promotions and increase of salary, not to work more and to get better quality in their work, but because they proved to deserve such a reward. 4) This level of pay you're talking is just entry-level. And most places entry level is really low. Specially when talking of arts. How do this newbies want to get promoted if they just "pretend to work"? I believe that most people certainly are doing their best, |
| I don't know in my country that would be a reasonable salary and you could live well with it but I'm guessing that things in japan are more expensive so perhaps they take multiple jobs or have families that support them. |
bigivelfhq said: flannan said: 1) Yes, that's what I meant to say. And more time means more quality, right? 2) I do not have the data to make proper speculations. But the "tiny apartment and cup ramen every meal" model surely is not good for health and output of the workers. 3) As you have said, employees stay with company for longer, acquiring more skill and doing a better job. Also note that as amount of anime expands, the workforce must expand too. And with better pay, studios can be more picky about who they hire. 4) At this levels of pay, companies risk the "they pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work" work ethic. Probably you're only talking of the Entry Level salary, the 10k from the OP. Reread the post that I made about salaries. 1) Most people don't take more time doing a drawing when they get an increase. Specially not people that receive little before. If you earned 10k first and your salary was increased to 20k, would you do the same work, receiving the double or would you do just 75% of the work and only receive 15k? 2) It depends on the situation of each person, but most those people live with their parents, or the company(or a foundation) accommodations). They certainly have money to eat more than cup Ramen, though they can have such diet due to other things. Like overwork and being easier and faster to just eat Ramen). Or saving money for other stuff. 3) Again, employee that stay longer in a company already get good salary increases. Please look at my previous post. Paying a newbie double, 20k, would not increase his quality, at least not significantly(unless of course we're assuming all of them have poverty and other types of problem related with short salary). Also increasing a veteran 28k to 56k or a 62k to 104k will not increase his quality, like I said before, at least not significantly. People get promotions and increase of salary, not to work more and to get better quality in their work, but because they proved to deserve such a reward. 4) This level of pay you're talking is just entry-level. And most places entry level is really low. Specially when talking of arts. How do this newbies want to get promoted if they just "pretend to work"? I believe that most people certainly are doing their best, I assume that the stated figure, 10k$, is average of all the animators, beginners and veterans. I have no idea what salary structure they actually have, beyond "paid per frame drawn", and "many are freelancers, working for whomever is shorthanded right now". |
| 10.000 : 12 = 833 per month 400-500 for rent 50-100 for food The rest for other expenses. And you get benefits depending on the company like free apartment, food or transportation which lowers it heavily. Done, stop being entitled. |
 |
flannan said: bigivelfhq said: Probably you're only talking of the Entry Level salary, the 10k from the OP. Reread the post that I made about salaries. 1) Most people don't take more time doing a drawing when they get an increase. Specially not people that receive little before. If you earned 10k first and your salary was increased to 20k, would you do the same work, receiving the double or would you do just 75% of the work and only receive 15k? 2) It depends on the situation of each person, but most those people live with their parents, or the company(or a foundation) accommodations). They certainly have money to eat more than cup Ramen, though they can have such diet due to other things. Like overwork and being easier and faster to just eat Ramen). Or saving money for other stuff. 3) Again, employee that stay longer in a company already get good salary increases. Please look at my previous post. Paying a newbie double, 20k, would not increase his quality, at least not significantly(unless of course we're assuming all of them have poverty and other types of problem related with short salary). Also increasing a veteran 28k to 56k or a 62k to 104k will not increase his quality, like I said before, at least not significantly. People get promotions and increase of salary, not to work more and to get better quality in their work, but because they proved to deserve such a reward. 4) This level of pay you're talking is just entry-level. And most places entry level is really low. Specially when talking of arts. How do this newbies want to get promoted if they just "pretend to work"? I believe that most people certainly are doing their best, I assume that the stated figure, 10k$, is average of all the animators, beginners and veterans. I have no idea what salary structure they actually have, beyond "paid per frame drawn", and "many are freelancers, working for whomever is shorthanded right now". flannan said: bigivelfhq said: Probably you're only talking of the Entry Level salary, the 10k from the OP. Reread the post that I made about salaries. 1) Most people don't take more time doing a drawing when they get an increase. Specially not people that receive little before. If you earned 10k first and your salary was increased to 20k, would you do the same work, receiving the double or would you do just 75% of the work and only receive 15k? 2) It depends on the situation of each person, but most those people live with their parents, or the company(or a foundation) accommodations). They certainly have money to eat more than cup Ramen, though they can have such diet due to other things. Like overwork and being easier and faster to just eat Ramen). Or saving money for other stuff. 3) Again, employee that stay longer in a company already get good salary increases. Please look at my previous post. Paying a newbie double, 20k, would not increase his quality, at least not significantly(unless of course we're assuming all of them have poverty and other types of problem related with short salary). Also increasing a veteran 28k to 56k or a 62k to 104k will not increase his quality, like I said before, at least not significantly. People get promotions and increase of salary, not to work more and to get better quality in their work, but because they proved to deserve such a reward. 4) This level of pay you're talking is just entry-level. And most places entry level is really low. Specially when talking of arts. How do this newbies want to get promoted if they just "pretend to work"? I believe that most people certainly are doing their best, I assume that the stated figure, 10k$, is average of all the animators, beginners and veterans. I have no idea what salary structure they actually have, beyond "paid per frame drawn", and "many are freelancers, working for whomever is shorthanded right now". The OPs 10k is just entry level animators salary(Is important to note that the exchange rate between yen and dollars has an hand in the numbers). By Janica Entry Level 9.2k -> 657 per month Overall 28k -> 2,000 per month Best place 61.9k -> 4,421 per month About salary structure. There are people that are paid fixed salaries, and there are people that are paid by frame, and people that are paid in a mixed way, they have a low fixed salary and an added income by frame. Companies workers have to be paid by fixed salary, or they are illegal. Freelancers can be just paid by frame. Though I believe the most frequently done is the mix. Sometime ago there was a contract shown, and it was the mixed one. Manga authors also receive the mix one. Normally this contracts have a ton of clausules. |
ichii_1 said: 10.000 : 12 = 833 per month 400-500 for rent 50-100 for food The rest for other expenses. And you get benefits depending on the company like free apartment, food or transportation which lowers it heavily. Done, stop being entitled. Normally that is divided by 14, not 12 -> 714 per month Normally a person that earns that little doesn't pay for a 400-500 rent. They live in the suburbs where is cheaper and rent just a room, with house expenses included. I would assume it would cost around 300-400. Depending if house expenses includes food or not. Other expenses. And yep that would be it. Though it doesn't provide for much savings, if at all. |
bigivelfhq said: ichii_1 said: 10.000 : 12 = 833 per month 400-500 for rent 50-100 for food The rest for other expenses. And you get benefits depending on the company like free apartment, food or transportation which lowers it heavily. Done, stop being entitled. Normally that is divided by 14, not 12 -> 714 per month Normally a person that earns that little doesn't pay for a 400-500 rent. They live in the suburbs where is cheaper and rent just a room, with house expenses included. I would assume it would cost around 300-400. Depending if house expenses includes food or not. Other expenses. And yep that would be it. Though it doesn't provide for much savings, if at all. Mind to explain why 14? AFAIK one year is 12months not 14. |
SkullProX said: bigivelfhq said: Normally that is divided by 14, not 12 -> 714 per month Normally a person that earns that little doesn't pay for a 400-500 rent. They live in the suburbs where is cheaper and rent just a room, with house expenses included. I would assume it would cost around 300-400. Depending if house expenses includes food or not. Other expenses. And yep that would be it. Though it doesn't provide for much savings, if at all. Mind to explain why 14? AFAIK one year is 12months not 14. he might have added 13th month pay and 14th month pay which are bonuses but i do not know if japan has those kinds of bonuses |
SkullProX said: bigivelfhq said: Normally that is divided by 14, not 12 -> 714 per month Normally a person that earns that little doesn't pay for a 400-500 rent. They live in the suburbs where is cheaper and rent just a room, with house expenses included. I would assume it would cost around 300-400. Depending if house expenses includes food or not. Other expenses. And yep that would be it. Though it doesn't provide for much savings, if at all. Mind to explain why 14? AFAIK one year is 12months not 14. They are obligatory bonuses, and they are automatically included in the total year Salary. Normally they are 2 months, and many countries force to be exactly that. So it makes sense to round to that value(even if a country doesn't forces that number, allowing flexibility for companies to pay less their employees). For Japan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_bonuses_(Japan) |
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