| There have been countless countries that have been cucked by colonial powers, but still manage to have some semblance of a state established. Afghanistan not being one of them |
Zeally said: What does that even mean The tribalism in Afghanistan isn't a facade by any stretch of the imagination It is. Or at least it's used as one. When you run out of reasons, or your reasons start losing relevance, you would have to come up with more. I live in a neighboring country to Afghanistan. I know the ins and out of this matter so you can trust me. PS Afghanistan was never fully under control of the British. The British only had real power in Central India. So when they left, Afghanistan was pretty much on its own. |
PerpetualTrance said: Zeally said: What does that even mean The tribalism in Afghanistan isn't a facade by any stretch of the imagination It is. Or at least it's used as one. When you run out of reasons, or your reasons start losing relevance, you would have to come up with more. I live in a neighboring country to Afghanistan. I know the ins and out of this matter so you can trust me. PS Afghanistan was never fully under control of the British. The British only had real power in Central India. So when they left, Afghanistan was pretty much on its own. Well the existence of tribes is exactly why no one has ever been able to tame Afghanistan. There's no central node of power |
Zeally said: PerpetualTrance said: It is. Or at least it's used as one. When you run out of reasons, or your reasons start losing relevance, you would have to come up with more. I live in a neighboring country to Afghanistan. I know the ins and out of this matter so you can trust me. PS Afghanistan was never fully under control of the British. The British only had real power in Central India. So when they left, Afghanistan was pretty much on its own. Well the existence of tribes is exactly why no one has ever been able to tame Afghanistan. There's no central node of power If those tribes are what irk you then let me tell you that tribalism was far stronger in Punjab and Central India- more so with the caste system around. Yet that never hindered British power over them. Tribalism has never been the strongest reason of division in predominantly Muslim countries for God knows what reason. Afghanistan simply stumbles because it was never truly under British control. Wherefore the farther West you go, the least British influence you see. |
Paella_ said: PerpetualTrance said: There was already an instability long before the Americans enteredThe reason why Afghanistan is unable to form a stable government is Blame the Soviets if yuo ask me The idea that America could possibly "radicalize" Islam is inane. There had to be that barely suppressed element in the first place in order for America to come in and unleash them. Same thing with Iraq and ISIS. |
Altairius said: Paella_ said: There was already an instability long before the Americans entered Blame the Soviets if yuo ask me The idea that America could possibly "radicalize" Islam is inane. There had to be that barely suppressed element in the first place in order for America to come in and unleash them. Same thing with Iraq and ISIS. It's not an 'idea'. It's the truth. Googling, 'Soviet invasion of Afghanistan', can do you wonders. |
| Did you even read what I said? |
Altairius said: Paella_ said: There was already an instability long before the Americans entered Blame the Soviets if yuo ask me The idea that America could possibly "radicalize" Islam is inane. There had to be that barely suppressed element in the first place in order for America to come in and unleash them. Same thing with Iraq and ISIS. Isn't that just semantic? "Radicalization" = unleashing of the suppressed element (in this case the Mujahideen) However, I would argue that the suppressed element is actually more of a characteristic in human nature, and both Islam and America's policy together (along with a whole list of other things) helped to create ripe conditions for it to flourish. |
HalkenburgNov 28, 2015 3:21 AM
 |
| I'm using "radical" to refer to the views themselves, which is how it's normally used. Islam plays at various dark elements in human nature and gives them a divine weight. I don't find "America's policy" to be comparable in that regard. |
Altairius said: I'm using "radical" to refer to the views themselves, which is how it's normally used. Islam plays at various dark elements in human nature and gives them a divine weight. I don't find "America's policy" to be comparable in that regard. Then bask to your fill in your bias against Islam and abandon your so-called search for truth because you won't gain propinquity to it even if you try a thousand years. |
Altairius said: It isn't at all considering America literally promoted jihad https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/12/08/the-taliban-indoctrinates-kids-with-jihadist-textbooks-paid-for-by-the-u-s/The idea that America could possibly "radicalize" Islam is inane. As The Washington Post reported in 2002, the United States had spent millions of dollars beginning in the 1980s to produce and disseminate anti-Soviet textbooks for Afghan schoolchildren. The books encouraged a jihadist outlook, which was useful propaganda at the time for a Washington driven by the imperatives of the Cold War. "The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system's core curriculum," The Post reported. "Even the Taliban used the American-produced books, though the radical movement scratched out human faces in keeping with its strict fundamentalist code." Printed both in Pashto and Dari, Afghanistan's two major languages, books such as "The Alphabet for Jihad Literacy" were produced under the auspices of the U.S. Agency for International Development by the University of Nebraska at Omaha and smuggled into Afghanistan through networks built by the CIA and Pakistan's military intelligence agency, the ISI. |
 |
| "Anti-Soviet books that encouraged jihad" are to blame. Islam has nothing to do with it! PerpetualTrance said: Altairius said: I'm using "radical" to refer to the views themselves, which is how it's normally used. Islam plays at various dark elements in human nature and gives them a divine weight. I don't find "America's policy" to be comparable in that regard. Then bask to your fill in your bias against Islam and abandon your so-called search for truth because you won't gain propinquity to it even if you try a thousand years. Death for adultery? Yes? No? Maybe? Sometimes? |
AltairiusNov 28, 2015 3:39 PM
Altairius said: FTFY.Anti-Soviet books that encouraged Islamic jihad played a role in the radicalization of Islam . |
DrGeroCreationNov 28, 2015 5:35 PM
|
| The world would be a better place if everyone was a pastafarian. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Altairius said: "Anti-Soviet books that encouraged jihad" are to blame. Islam has nothing to do with it! PerpetualTrance said: Then bask to your fill in your bias against Islam and abandon your so-called search for truth because you won't gain propinquity to it even if you try a thousand years. Death for adultery? Yes? No? Maybe? Sometimes? Lol, Christianity supposedly believes in death for adultery as well, depending on who you listen to. You may call that a crazy version, but you'd be really no different than the Muslims who denounce ISIS, al Qaeda, etc. There are different interpretations of every religion. Depending on the environment, certain interpretations are more likely to flourish. The USA didn't change the Quran but they changed how Islam was interpreted. |
|
| I wonder what % of Christians in 2015 believe in death for adultery. Also, there's a difference between ISIS and the amount of Muslims who believe in the traditional punishments. You seem unaware of just how large the latter group is. |
FloatingIdiot said: Altairius said: "Anti-Soviet books that encouraged jihad" are to blame. Islam has nothing to do with it! Death for adultery? Yes? No? Maybe? Sometimes? Lol, Christianity supposedly believes in death for adultery as well, depending on who you listen to. You may call that a crazy version, but you'd be really no different than the Muslims who denounce ISIS, al Qaeda, etc. There are different interpretations of every religion. Depending on the environment, certain interpretations are more likely to flourish. The USA didn't change the Quran but they changed how Islam was interpreted. Wait.....which Christians are going around asking for death for adultery? In fact, when did Jesus ever kill anyone for committing adultery? There happens to be a story that tells quite the opposite.... |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Altairius said: I wonder what % of Christians in 2015 believe in death for adultery. Also, there's a difference between ISIS and the amount of Muslims who believe in the traditional punishments. You seem unaware of just how large the latter group is. The Christian community has evolved in a way that rejects views like that. Look at what most modern Christians think of groups like the Westboro Baptist Church, and the Lord's Resistance Army. Christians as a whole ostracize groups like that. It wasn't always like that. See: the Dark Ages Is Islam more prone to those views? Sure, that is probably the case, but your giant red herring still hasn't shown how the USA hasn't radicalized it. While Christianity keeps moving in the direction away from radicalization, Islam keeps moving in the direction of radicalization. Why is that? All you have to do is look at the conditions and forces within the regions where these radical groups are spreading. While we may not still be handing out jihadist textbooks, when you create a bunch of chaos and instability, people tend to think in extremes. Not only is that how ISIS is able to recruit so well, but also why historical groups like the Nazis were so successful. |
|
| Its funny bcoz we dont rly include Protestantism divisions as a "branch" of Christianity more like OP is referring to the Latin Catholics, Chaldean Catholics, Coptic Catholics, Armenian Catholics and other independent Catholic churches and Orthodox ones FloatingIdiot said: Specifically the Protestant ReformationAltairius said: I wonder what % of Christians in 2015 believe in death for adultery. Also, there's a difference between ISIS and the amount of Muslims who believe in the traditional punishments. You seem unaware of just how large the latter group is. The Christian community has evolved in a way that rejects views like that. Look at what most modern Christians think of groups like the Westboro Baptist Church, and the Lord's Resistance Army. Christians as a whole ostracize groups like that. It wasn't always like that. See: the Dark Ages. |
DiginarcissaNov 28, 2015 8:24 PM
| Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race |
FloatingIdiot said: Altairius said: I wonder what % of Christians in 2015 believe in death for adultery. Also, there's a difference between ISIS and the amount of Muslims who believe in the traditional punishments. You seem unaware of just how large the latter group is. The Christian community has evolved in a way that rejects views like that. Look at what most modern Christians think of groups like the Westboro Baptist Church, and the Lord's Resistance Army. Christians as a whole ostracize groups like that. It wasn't always like that. See: the Dark Ages Is Islam more prone to those views? Sure, that is probably the case, but your giant red herring still hasn't shown how the USA hasn't radicalized it. While Christianity keeps moving in the direction away from radicalization, Islam keeps moving in the direction of radicalization. Why is that? All you have to do is look at the conditions and forces within the regions where these radical groups are spreading. While we may not still be handing out jihadist textbooks, when you create a bunch of chaos and instability, people tend to think in extremes. Not only is that how ISIS is able to recruit so well, but also why historical groups like the Nazis were so successful. You'd have to show how the US caused the depth of radicalism that we see. I'm saying the explanation about the US spreading around anti-Soviet, jihadist textbooks in Afghanistan is pathetically weak and specific. There has to be that degree of radicalism (barely suppressed by whatever dictator is in at the time) in the first place to take advantage of. Think of it this way, if the Middle East had been Christian, do you think there would be remotely the same kind of divergence of civilizations between it and Europe? Of course there would be conflict, but more just in the vein of countries tearing themselves apart, as they always have. |
Altairius said: "Anti-Soviet books that encouraged jihad" are to blame. Islam has nothing to do with it! PerpetualTrance said: Then bask to your fill in your bias against Islam and abandon your so-called search for truth because you won't gain propinquity to it even if you try a thousand years. Death for adultery? Yes? No? Maybe? Sometimes? And death for adultery means bomb the fucking adulterers? What are you trying to say? is there a correlation between giving death penalty to adulterers and bombing people? |
| "We might kill adulterers, but at least we don't bomb them!" Dude, the traditional stoning to death is way worse than bombing (as a means to kill one person), which is over immediately. But yes, no fucking shit there's a connection between the two. The connection is that both can only be carried out by violent, backward freaks. You think "radical" starts with bombing? I don't even have to respond like this. Any sane person can already see you're fucked in the head. Wait, the quote in your signature is from a Muslim? What, Islam is just the truth so it's not religion? What an archaic fuckwit. God I hate ancient people. |
AltairiusNov 29, 2015 1:36 AM
Altairius said: FloatingIdiot said: The Christian community has evolved in a way that rejects views like that. Look at what most modern Christians think of groups like the Westboro Baptist Church, and the Lord's Resistance Army. Christians as a whole ostracize groups like that. It wasn't always like that. See: the Dark Ages Is Islam more prone to those views? Sure, that is probably the case, but your giant red herring still hasn't shown how the USA hasn't radicalized it. While Christianity keeps moving in the direction away from radicalization, Islam keeps moving in the direction of radicalization. Why is that? All you have to do is look at the conditions and forces within the regions where these radical groups are spreading. While we may not still be handing out jihadist textbooks, when you create a bunch of chaos and instability, people tend to think in extremes. Not only is that how ISIS is able to recruit so well, but also why historical groups like the Nazis were so successful. You'd have to show how the US caused the depth of radicalism that we see. I'm saying the explanation about the US spreading around anti-Soviet, jihadist textbooks in Afghanistan is pathetically weak and specific. There has to be that degree of radicalism (barely suppressed by whatever dictator is in at the time) in the first place to take advantage of. Think of it this way, if the Middle East had been Christian, do you think there would be remotely the same kind of divergence of civilizations between it and Europe? Of course there would be conflict, but more just in the vein of countries tearing themselves apart, as they always have. You're really jumping around here. If the Middle East was not predominantly Muslim (and thus different from Europe), there would not be the "divergence of civilizations" but that is self-evident. The divergence exists due to Europe's cultural difference with Islam, not Islam's inherent "badness". The divergence leads to conflict, but that does not imply that Islam itself is a "worse" religion than Christianity, or that Muslims are more to blame than Europe/USA. The idea of being "barely suppressed" ideology does not take any blame off the shoulders of America for supporting the Mujahideen in Afghanistan and Pakistan which led to al Qaeda and the Taliban, nor does it for destabilizing major portions of the Middle East which subsequently served as breeding grounds for more jihadi fighters. In general when civilizations become more advanced and quality of life improves, radical fundamentalist religious sects become more and more suppressed, and the societies become more secular. The West's meddling in the Middle East not only directly trained and funded Mujahideen groups which turned into vicious enemies, but also set the environmental conditions for these evolved modern jihadi groups to thrive, most recently through the Iraq War and support of Arab Spring. Look at places like Iraq, Libya, and Syria and think of how they would be if the status quo was more or less maintained: much less radicalized. If all you are trying to say is "if the Middle East was a Christian majority there would be less conflict", then of course. But if you are trying to say "everything is the fault of Islam", Islam was only one ingredient and many others were provided by non-Muslims. And the path to a more peaceful, stable future involves working to a state where Sunni Muslims effectively suppress the violent, radical Sunni jihadists. You aren't going to take away the culture of a people, but you can give them less reasons to join radical movements when their life isn't all that bad and don't feel like the West is at war with the entirety of Islam. |
HalkenburgNov 29, 2015 3:26 AM
|
| I never said the US has no fault. I'm saying it's depressing that the balance is so fragile that all it takes is the US or whoever else dicking about to unleash a tidal wave of shit out of that asshole of the world. Also, that doesn't account for the majority of people in fucking Indonesia holding extreme views. |
Altairius said: I never said the US has no fault. I'm saying it's depressing that the balance is so fragile that all it takes is the US or whoever else dicking about to unleash a tidal wave of shit out of that asshole of the world. Also, that doesn't account for the majority of people in fucking Indonesia holding extreme views. Dude you sound like such a dumbass. Just stop. Fuck sake do you even live in the US to be talking so much shit. |
 |
| What the fuck kind of irrelevant comment is that? |
| This thread really just needs to go away. The OP's hypothetical was dumb, and now it's derailed. |
|
Altairius said: I wonder what % of Christians in 2015 believe in death for adultery. Also, there's a difference between ISIS and the amount of Muslims who believe in the traditional punishments. You seem unaware of just how large the latter group is. No offense but you are pulling statistics out of nowhere. The very large group of muslims that have successfully integrated into western society would tell you that the traditional sharia law no longer has any place in today's world, any rational educated muslim would agree to that much considering we now have a fully functioning civil law system that protects people's rights hence no need for intimidation via brutal punishment like beheading for murder or 70 whips for adultery. Altairius said: Also, that doesn't account for the majority of people in fucking Indonesia holding extreme views. You've basically picked the worst possible example for an extreme muslim country. Again, the problem with radicalization of third world countries stems from a bloodied history of colonization. Some countries like France have made a SIGNIFICANT amount of effort to integrate Arabs into their society, it's a slow process, but it's one that's guaranteed to work over time. ISIS are the leftovers of the dark ages, judging from their primitive behavior and brutal nature, these are basically a bunch of people that "believes" that the rest of the world is out to get them, it's founded on that sole belief. This has entirely nothing to do with reading a book with a bunch of text and laws that tells you to do this and not that: a law book in nature that was written and dedicated for a time when a person can walk by you on the street, mug/rape/kill you and walk away casually without any fear of repercussions. Reading a book does not turn someone into a mindless animal, one can assume that they found self-validation in it by projecting what they have already been bred to believe in. Perpetuating hate and intolerance in the face of all muslims will only help speed up their growth by radicalizing more Muslims that don't even share their belief system, this behavior will actually validate their cause. Nothing but time and patience will eradicate ISIS and their current actions have caused a world wide binary reaction among muslims, they helped significantly to separate the retarded muslims that agrees with them from the rational ones that don't. |
ZA_WAYDNov 29, 2015 9:06 AM
 |
Altairius said: "We might kill adulterers, but at least we don't bomb them!" Dude, the traditional stoning to death is way worse than bombing (as a means to kill one person), which is over immediately. But yes, no fucking shit there's a connection between the two. The connection is that both can only be carried out by violent, backward freaks. You think "radical" starts with bombing? I don't even have to respond like this. Any sane person can already see you're fucked in the head. Wait, the quote in your signature is from a Muslim? What, Islam is just the truth so it's not religion? What an archaic fuckwit. God I hate ancient people. Haven't you had enough of making a joke of yourself? |
| ^ Lack of response = stoning is cool. ZA_WAYD said: Altairius said: I wonder what % of Christians in 2015 believe in death for adultery. Also, there's a difference between ISIS and the amount of Muslims who believe in the traditional punishments. You seem unaware of just how large the latter group is. No offense but you are pulling statistics out of nowhere. The very large group of muslims that have successfully integrated into western society would tell you that the traditional sharia law no longer has any place in today's world, any rational educated muslim would agree to that much considering we now have a fully functioning civil law system that protects people's rights hence no need for intimidation via brutal punishment like beheading for murder or 70 whips for adultery. Altairius said: Also, that doesn't account for the majority of people in fucking Indonesia holding extreme views. You've basically picked the worst possible example for an extreme muslim country. [vid] In Western countries the statistics are lower but still way too high. lol, Reza Aslan. You're going to learn right now not to post that guy. |
Altairius said: In Western countries the statistics are lower but still way too high. lol, Reza Aslan. You're going to learn right now not to post that guy. Let me get this straight, you're going to ignore the legitimacy of the content of the video i posted (because Reza aslan is in it ?) and you're countering my observational arguments by posting a video of BS poles? He does look smart though ... i am enticed to believe him. I have nothing further to add to this discussion. |
|
| What legitimacy? His only real point was about FGM, which I never mentioned. Apparently it does mention it in the Hadith though, so his argument about it happening in Christian majority countries is faulty. That doesn't prove it's not the Muslims in those countries that are doing it. "BS poles"? Your bias is showing. PEW research regarding Muslims' actual opinions across the world vs. Aslan's lame statement about "female heads of state". You're going to maintain the latter constitutes a stronger case? |
More topics from this board
» Do you love anyone in your life?LenRea - Mar 31 |
35 |
by Maou_heika
»»
5 minutes ago |
|
» Have you ever put someone on the 'Ignored Users' list?Thy-Veseveia - Yesterday |
11 |
by Maou_heika
»»
10 minutes ago |
|
» Do you collect trading cards?Malkshake - Apr 30 |
33 |
by Hitagi__Furude
»»
10 minutes ago |
|
» Do you celebrate your BirthdayST63LTH - Yesterday |
27 |
by Maou_heika
»»
16 minutes ago |
|
» Have you ever been falsely accused of anything? ( 1 2 )Ejrodiew - May 1 |
58 |
by Maou_heika
»»
19 minutes ago |