Fairy Tail Chapter 463 Discussion

Gin-Tsu said:


The same shit can be said about your OP/Luffy. Stop acting like FT is the only Manga folowing the shounen pattern. It's always the OP fapboys coming up with this nonsense.

CookingPriest said:


He was being worried for Natsu yet it is not what gray fanbois in this thread took from that scene. "Omg Gray was being reasonable and thought Natsu was stupid!"

Gray Fans are almost as bad as Slaine fans were in Aldnoah forums

You know what is upsetting? Gray not getting ANY consequences for a free power up and getting whitewashed for leaving Juvia without explanations to the point of her getting sick. That is what is upsetting.

Ophis said:
Since Zeref is fighting so soon in this arc, I can't help but feel like Anhkseram will be the true final boss, and make a Kaguya-like entrance.

TheGrandSage23 said:
Good chapter(7/10) but god Erza annoys me now and Mavis is being punked by Zeref.

This time this has nothing to do with being a me being a Gray fanboy or not. So don't try to use that angle. Gray was right to second guess. Erza has Natsu's(second favorite character after Post TS Lucy) manhood firmly inside her and it's been that way for too long. Trying make Gray seem like he's in the wrong with her "high and mighty our faith is all that matters bs" then Mavis just comes along and agrees.. No mention of Natsu being too gung ho. And you wonder how Zeref is punking Mavis so easily? This was one of the problems FT had(fixed it after the GMG arc for the most part) that "faith and friendship" was all that mattered to win and not power or skill.

The reason why this situation is better handled is because we know that Natsu is one of the strongest characters in the FT verse and that his power has grown immensely. He was specifically created to end Zeref's life however the thing is that we(the audience) know this not the characters. If Gray knew what Natsu was he wouldn't second guess but instead have faith in Natsu for logical reasons. Instead of having blind faith like Erza or Mavis for no reason whatsoever

BlueBaegon said:
This was a good chapter. I feel like the fight between Natsu and Zeref is too soon, especially because it's it's supposed to be very climactic and they still have 11 spriggans and tons of foot soldiers to beat up.

Darklight0303 said:


I might believe what you say if Gray had not explicitly mentioned the Book of END. You know the same thing he was so gung ho about destroying EVEN THOUGH THE FREAKING HUNDRED IF NOT THOUSAND YEAR DRAGON SAID NOT TO!

Zerienga said:
Gray heard Igneel say this when? Oh, that's right. Igneel only told Natsu that while they were a few hundred or thousand feet in the air. Gray could totally hear that, right guys?

I usually just sit around and read everyone's opinions instead of commenting, but you posted something that is logically impossible.

trump54 said:

Is that the name of the god? Does Zeref still love natsu? The first time they met, his curse activated, the second time it did not. I was wondering if his emotions flared up randomly as they did with Mavis would it kill Natsu.
Or will that situation be avoided

Zerienga said:

*Queue 10 chapter break from the Zeref v Natsu fight* ;)


Gray heard Igneel say this when? Oh, that's right. Igneel only told Natsu that while they were a few hundred or thousand feet in the air. Gray could totally hear that, right guys?

I usually just sit around and read everyone's opinions instead of commenting, but you posted something that is logically impossible.

Theusis3 said:


Technically Gray wasn't around when Igneel said not to destroy the book of E.N.D.
And Natsu only told Gray that he promised Igneel to retrieve the book of E.N.D.
And Gray himself has made a promise to his father to destroy the book of E.N.D.
Both of them naturally conflict due to promises they made.
Erza is blindly trusting in Natsu. However you can see Mavis hesitate. She agrees with Erza as there isn't actually anything they can do about it, but simply trust in Natsu's judgement and abilities. They have other problems to think about.
If anyone believe there is a better idea, please share your thoughts. I just want to state that this is my own observations and opinion.

People usually don't have a problem with characters. They somehow just have a problem with and cannot ignore the fanboys of characters. e.g. Gray's hardcore fanboys apparently.

As for the fact if Gray finds out that Natsu is E.N.D. which he will find out eventually. He'll be faced with a dilemma, whether he will destroy Natsu or not. Can he save Natsu and destroy E.N.D. Is that possible? E.N.D. and Natsu are the same person. What happens when E.N.D. is awakened.

Looking forward to Mashima's writing.

CookingPriest said:
> Implying END story will be about FodderGray and not Lucy

KEK.

Gray is there to be foderized by END, due to his unhealthy END obsession. Lucy is there to save/stop Natsu. That's the only logical way this can go.

Darklight0303 said:
It doesn't matter if Gray heard or didn't hear what Igneel told Natsu. First off Gray was there when Atlas Flame said that Igneel fought END 400 years ago but couldn't beat him. That alone gives Igneel more credence than some revived corpse who had nothing but second or third hand account knowledge of END. Someone who fought END VS Someone who only heard about END. It doesn't take a genius to figure out whose words are more valid.

Darklight0303 said:
Gray was anything but reasonable at that point in time. He wasn't thinking straight in the least. His whole vendetta against END is nothing more than a stopgap measure to keep Gray somewhat relevant Or else he'd end up just as detached from the main plotline as Erza.

Darklight0303 said:
First off END was sealed away hundreds of years before Deliora destroyed his village and killed his parents. IT wasn't like END ORDERED DEliora to do that. At most that would probably be Marde Geer's doing.

Darklight0303 said:
Second: The guarantee that Devil Slayer magic that Silver came up with can for sure take down END. On what basis? Silver was not around when END was active. He has never seen END in action, he has never fought END. And yet somehow this random magic can kill him. Zeref's finest creation for the purpose of killing him.

It's a joke and anyone buying into it literally is nothing more than a fool.

AllenNoah said:

Which is why Gray wanted to destroy the book before E.N.D. could be let out.


How so? He seemed rather composed and reasonable. "Here's Zeref's strongest demon. Right now he's asleep in an easily destroyable book. Let's destroy it before he wakes up."


It's not that he blames E.N.D. for Deliora, he just doesn't want anymore destruction caused by Etherios Demons like he experienced. Kinda like how Crime Sorcerie takes out Dark Guilds related to Zeref.


How is that any different from the people believing in Natsu's secret bandage weapon? He's never actually fought Zeref and has no idea as to what his full abilities are, and yet somehow he developed a move that can in a year, possibly less. Doesn't that sound just as ludicrous.

metsujin said:
Sorry man gotta agree with AllenNoah. I mean you state that part with Igneel saying that the book should not be destoryed, but Gray DOESN'T KNOW THAT. The only one who knows is Natsu.

Why is Gray so keen on E.N.D? Pretty sure he knows he can't do shit to Zeref, but he does know that the Devil Slaying Magic works on his strongest creation, and as AllenNoah stated he's probably doing it because he doesn't want other to go through the same shit he went through.

Darklight0303 said:
Except the Dragon who fought END said NOT to destroy the book. Given he wanted to defeat the demon in the past and now told Natsu to CAPTURE the book instead of burning it outright, something which would be much easier for Natsu to do given his schtick IS fire after all, proves there's a deeper motive behind it. Much deeper than the RAWR revenge bullshit Gray was on at the time.

Darklight0303 said:
If he didn't blame END, he'd focus MORE on the creator of END. Instead he's still going on and on about how he's going to be the one to take END down.

Darklight0303 said:
It is different since Natsu is END. The one Zeref Created with the express purpose to kill him. Natsu unlocking that ability during the one year timeskip is a billion times more believable than a magic concocted on nothing but hearsay.

AllenNoah said:


Somehow I knew you'd say that. Now here's a fun little exercise: Get a pencil and piece of paper and write down everyone in-universe that knows that Natsu is E.N.D. It's easy to forget that as viewers we naturally get to know more than the characters within the story.

Darklight0303 said:


Natsu told Gray that he was supposed to get that book to Igneel. IT was a job from HIS dad. THE DRAGON. The guy who has the most experience with END outside of Zeref. So yes he didn't know ALL the details but he did know that Igneel told Natsu to get him that BOOK. And he stubbornly and stupidly refused.

Look how Close to Natsu Gray is standing. THere's NO way he didn't hear Igneel

http://www.mangainn.me/manga/chapter/129579_fairy-tail-chapter-413/page_11

http://www.mangainn.me/manga/chapter/129579_fairy-tail-chapter-413/page_14

http://www.mangainn.me/manga/chapter/129579_fairy-tail-chapter-413/page_15

Look he was even there when Igneel YELLED at Natsu to GET the book. Did Gray look like he was going to give the book? Nope not in the least.

He only knows what his DAD told him. He has no guarantee whatsoever that Devil Slayer magic will harm END. Because like i have already said a billion times, all the information about END that Silver and even the majority of Tartaros had access to was hearsay. Second hand accounts at best. The only ones who do know the details about END are Zeref, Acnologia and Igneel so far.

Darklight0303 said:
That is irrelevant to the point I am making. Doesn't matter who knows he's END. Natsu was CREATED with the purpose of defeating Zeref. So him naturally developing a move that could kill Zeref is much more believable, than a third party MIRACULOUSLY developing the perfect magic to counter END even though they have never met, seen, or fought said creature.

Darklight0303 said:
The most Silver can guarantee is that his magic is effective against Etherious beeings but that's not saying much given normal magic worked just fine in the end against the other Etherious as well. Heck he didn't even finish off Marde. Critically wound, yes but the one who actually killed Marde was Zeref.

Darklight0303 said:
Another key difference between END and the other demons. He was made with the body of Zeref's brother as the core. Unlike the Other Etherious who could be resurrected ad nauseum as long as they had those pods and the books were intact.

Darklight0303 said:


That is irrelevant to the point I am making. Doesn't matter who knows he's END. Natsu was CREATED with the purpose of defeating Zeref. So him naturally developing a move that could kill Zeref is much more believable, than a third party MIRACULOUSLY developing the perfect magic to counter END even though they have never met, seen, or fought said creature.

The most Silver can guarantee is that his magic is effective against Etherious beeings but that's not saying much given normal magic worked just fine in the end against the other Etherious as well. Heck he didn't even finish off Marde. Critically wound, yes but the one who actually killed Marde was Zeref.

Another key difference between END and the other demons. He was made with the body of Zeref's brother as the core. Unlike the Other Etherious who could be resurrected ad nauseum as long as they had those pods and the books were intact.

So again Silver's words about defeating END with his magic are nothing but baseless wishful thinking with no supporting evidence.

AllenNoah said:

Not exactly. Etherios are programmed to kill Zeref, yes, but it's more like they're given the instinct to kill Zeref, even if they themselves don't know it. Hell, out of all of Tartaros Marde was the only one that actually had a measure to. The others may have been able to hurt Zeref (I'm assuming he can be cut, drowned, poisoned, etc...although he did tell Mavis she'd live even with her head cut off so I dunno. It hasn't really been established if he just has regular immortality or regenerative immortality.) So Natsu's instinct for killing Zeref to me is no more or less valid than Silver's hatred for demons leading him to learn his magic (which by the way, he explicitly stated he learned it because he learned that E.N.D. is a fire demon it wasn't like he was born with it).


It's not like Gray or Natsu couldn't have finished off Marde. They were both just more focused with Acnologia/the Book of E.N.D. since Marde was incapacitated on the ground.


And that means...what exactly when it comes to killing immortals?

Darklight0303 said:


It doesn't matter if Gray heard or didn't hear what Igneel told Natsu. First off Gray was there when Atlas Flame said that Igneel fought END 400 years ago but couldn't beat him. That alone gives Igneel more credence than some revived corpse who had nothing but second or third hand account knowledge of END. Someone who fought END VS Someone who only heard about END. It doesn't take a genius to figure out whose words are more valid.

Gray was anything but reasonable at that point in time. He wasn't thinking straight in the least. His whole vendetta against END is nothing more than a stopgap measure to keep Gray somewhat relevant Or else he'd end up just as detached from the main plotline as Erza.

First off END was sealed away hundreds of years before Deliora destroyed his village and killed his parents. IT wasn't like END ORDERED DEliora to do that. At most that would probably be Marde Geer's doing.

Second: The guarantee that Devil Slayer magic that Silver came up with can for sure take down END. On what basis? Silver was not around when END was active. He has never seen END in action, he has never fought END. And yet somehow this random magic can kill him. Zeref's finest creation for the purpose of killing him.

It's a joke and anyone buying into it literally is nothing more than a fool.




Yup pretty much and that moment can't come any sooner.

Theusis3 said:


I can agree that I don't think Gray will be able to stop END, it is likely to be Lucy in my view. Though I disagree with the argument that it didn't matter if Gray didn't hear what Igneel said or not. In Gray's POV, he only has a promise he made with his dad to destroy all of Zeref's demons, with END being the last one alive. And he only heard Igneel tell Natsu to retrieve the book, never did he hear that Igneel told Natsu not to destroy it.

And also I've always stated and thought that Gray's sudden power-up was Mashima's way to keep Gray relevant in the story, since there was no way he was ever going to get anyone close enough to Natsu and the other characters by just training. Gray was already reaching his limit before the power-up, unless he found a way to improve to re-creating absolute zero.

The whole point is not that END killed his parents or ordered Deliora to do it or not. It was a promise made. And Silva's power was developed to defeat demons, and END is a fire demon according to Silva. So he believed that it would work on END. As for END being created with the body of Zeref's brother as a core, that is difficult to know what and how that would affect things. Also no one knows that except for Zeref and 'perhaps' Igneel.

It was said that Igneel couldn't defeat END 400 years ago. We do not get a reason why or what happened. It could be that Igneel couldn't defeat END because END was still a child, and he couldn't find it in his heart to destroy it. He chose to raise Natsu up, perhaps knowing that he is END, and that if he read the book, it would awaken something and if you destroyed the book, Natsu would die.. Though that is just my speculation.

Also note that I never said that Gray would beat END with his power, but from his point of view, it is his best chance, knowing that his power works against demons.

And what's with people saying about Natsu having suddenly found out a move to beat Zeref. And it's unbelievable. He had a year in training with Gildartz for some parts. Though I do think that if he said it only can be used one time, it might be that he found a way to store magical energy for a whole year while training, and under his bandages are symbols or runes. That's just my thoughts.

Darklight0303 said:


The 400+ year old dragon that actually encountered END said to get the book. If you're thinking straight or being reasonable you listen to the experienced party. Gray did nothing of the sort. He was blinded by vengeance at that time and if Zeref hadn't stolen the book would have probably destroyed the book right in front of Natsu. The book that his dear father told him to retrieve.

Lucy-is-onemagic said:
I just reread the Gray and Natsu vs. Mard Geer. What if inside the bandage is a dragonification thingy?

Lucy-is-onemagic said:
I just reread the Gray and Natsu vs. Mard Geer. What if inside the bandage is a dragonification thingy?

ziggy_Z said:
I'm not doubting it, but that's just fucking stupid. The dragons finally came out of their children because they stopped the dragonification; that's the very reason Igneel didn't come out back on Tenrou, because he didn't create enough antibodies.

But, if it really is that, well... sasuga Hiro.

metsujin said:

Igneel mentions that there's ALMOST no chance they will turn into dragons.

Darklight0303 said:
Why do you bring up instinct? I am talking about ability potential. Something that Zeref himself guarantees given how he acts. Instinct has nothing to do with it. Cease your pathetic attempt to deviate for the core topic as an argument. Ability potential for Natsu dictates he has a higher chance of coming up with a move that will work against Zeref, than some reanimated corpse inventing magic that can take on a foe that they only know about from other people or records.

Darklight0303 said:
Both of which can be hugely unreliable and unable to encompass the full scope of an entity. I mean for fuck's sake Marde didn't even know Natsu was END. You're going to take anything he says about END at face value still? Heck even his plan to erase all magic. Odds are it wouldn't work at all. Since as Igneel himself said the book was not to be opened. MEANING it could be opened at any time.

Darklight0303 said:
Also lets not forget ACNOLOGIA is afraid of END. He clearly recognizes END as a threat. That alone speaks volumes of his power. Power that surpasses those weeny Tartaros punks

Darklight0303 said:
You do realize that every Etherious OTHER than END was a failure don't you? Zeref himself implied as much. =_= keep trying. Maybe you'll find a leg to stand on. Because right now you have none.

CookingPriest said:


^
This.
Gray's revenge quest END obsession is unhealthy bullshit and I damn hope he gets called out on that and suffer for it.

But then again, they already decided to remove consequences for Gray's deus ex machina powerup so hey.

...
Actually the whole secret technique thing makes me think Mashima MIGHT set up the plot that Natsu actually got his memories back during timeskip(and it would explain Lucy's reaction to him in the gmg before sh eknew it was him). It would muddy waters a lot in a good way if what we saw of Natsu post-timeskip is already END.

Darklight0303 said:


The 400+ year old dragon that actually encountered END said to get the book. If you're thinking straight or being reasonable you listen to the experienced party. Gray did nothing of the sort. He was blinded by vengeance at that time and if Zeref hadn't stolen the book would have probably destroyed the book right in front of Natsu. The book that his dear father told him to retrieve. So basically Gray would selfishly decide hey, my dad's more important than yours so I'm gonna ignore the guy who clearly knows more about END and do what I want to make myself feel better about my poor already dead corpse of a father.

CookingPriest said:
Just a transitional chapter, nothing of interest happens.

It is sad that Natsu's "super secret weapon" is bound to fail and the gary stu gray gets to go "I told you guyse"

Part of me is sad that huge part of chapters was pretty much padding to end on that scene, because we have to wait another week to find out what Natsu is hiding behind the cloth and w/e new info we might learn about them.

CookingPriest said:


He was being worried for Natsu yet it is not what gray fanbois in this thread took from that scene. "Omg Gray was being reasonable and thought Natsu was stupid!"

Gray Fans are almost as bad as Slaine fans were in Aldnoah forums

You know what is upsetting? Gray not getting ANY consequences for a free power up and getting whitewashed for leaving Juvia without explanations to the point of her getting sick. That is what is upsetting.

Theusis3 said:


Technically Gray wasn't around when Igneel said not to destroy the book of E.N.D.
And Natsu only told Gray that he promised Igneel to retrieve the book of E.N.D.
And Gray himself has made a promise to his father to destroy the book of E.N.D.
Both of them naturally conflict due to promises they made.
Erza is blindly trusting in Natsu. However you can see Mavis hesitate. She agrees with Erza as there isn't actually anything they can do about it, but simply trust in Natsu's judgement and abilities. They have other problems to think about.
If anyone believe there is a better idea, please share your thoughts. I just want to state that this is my own observations and opinion.

People usually don't have a problem with characters. They somehow just have a problem with and cannot ignore the fanboys of characters. e.g. Gray's hardcore fanboys apparently.

As for the fact if Gray finds out that Natsu is E.N.D. which he will find out eventually. He'll be faced with a dilemma, whether he will destroy Natsu or not. Can he save Natsu and destroy E.N.D. Is that possible? E.N.D. and Natsu are the same person. What happens when E.N.D. is awakened.

Looking forward to Mashima's writing.

Theusis3 said:


Gray wasn't being reasonable with Natsu. Both of them were on opposite ends of what each had to do. And Gray isn't fueled with vengeance, rather the need to uphold a promise made, which he is blinded by. He definitely would have destroyed that book if Zeref didn't take it back.

Mashima has been making Gray and Natsu parallel with each other. Both are now just upholding promises to their respective fathers.

Though Gray did get the book, he only knows that Natsu's job was to retrieve it. He probably never even thought of the idea that the book shouldn't be destroyed, to him the threat should be eliminated. I still think that destroying the book would destroy Natsu, and Igneel didn't want that. We'll never know what Igneel was going to do with the book, perhaps hide it away for ever somewhere. Just a speculation.

CookingPriest said:
> Implying END story will be about FodderGray and not Lucy

KEK.

Gray is there to be foderized by END, due to his unhealthy END obsession. Lucy is there to save/stop Natsu. That's the only logical way this can go.

Darklight0303 said:


I might believe what you say if Gray had not explicitly mentioned the Book of END. You know the same thing he was so gung ho about destroying EVEN THOUGH THE FREAKING HUNDRED IF NOT THOUSAND YEAR DRAGON SAID NOT TO!

Darklight0303 said:


The 400+ year old dragon that actually encountered END said to get the book. If you're thinking straight or being reasonable you listen to the experienced party. Gray did nothing of the sort. He was blinded by vengeance at that time and if Zeref hadn't stolen the book would have probably destroyed the book right in front of Natsu. The book that his dear father told him to retrieve. So basically Gray would selfishly decide hey, my dad's more important than yours so I'm gonna ignore the guy who clearly knows more about END and do what I want to make myself feel better about my poor already dead corpse of a father.

metsujin said:
The amount of hate for Gray lol Here I am sitting eating chips (Light style) while you all argue about this...

Rex_Connor said:
Kinda like how Natsu is obsessed with Acnologia with his selfish revenge plot
I mean Acnologia killing off Igneel was a forced bullshit for Natsu to remain relevant in the quest for revenge.
but you being a stupid shithead of a hypocrite is nothing surprising at this point. You spread your hate on Deviantart, so this is nothing new.
Your obsession for Gray is really amusing. but it's not just an obsession, you're simply jealous that Gray gets consistent character development and isn't a walking talking wreckless shit machine like Natsu lol.



Not hate, it's simply jealousy. it's usually the two retarded insecure clowns so nothing new here.

metsujin said:

Gotta say I disagree with you on the Natsu part, you're basically just defending Gray by making another character look bad, and that's not good.

Also how is Natsu obsessed with Acnologia? He stated that he trained in order to beat Acnologia, and not let him cause him anymore pain and suffering, because Acnologia got him twice.

Rex_Connor said:


It's an eye for an eye. If some blind natsu tards like darklight0303/CookingPriest come out and insult my boy, they better watch their backs and be able to stand up for themselves esp when they make up irrational bullshit statements that contradict their whole thought process Not to mention blatant double standards are obviously seen.

No way has Igneel ever said to avenge me to Natsu. If it has been said then provide me the panels, then we'll talk. So Natsu is obsessed with killing a dragon for relevancy even though it's forced bullshit.
I mean Im using the same standards as people like CookingPriest so it should be okay right?

I mean people like cookingpriest say that Gray has an "unhealthy obsession about END" which is lolworthy given how it hasn't effected him emotionally or mentally as he's capable of getting on the day without thinking about END normally unless he remembers about END bein gconnected to something. Just because Gray is focused on eliminating a demon associated with another demon that has traumatized himself since childhood and a task set by his dead father, doesn't mean he has a "unhealthy obssesion". It's normal to think about the objective when it concerns him.
I mean what kind of fucked up and twisted misconception one has to believe he has an unhealthy obsession? Only Natsu tards can come up with that shit.

metsujin said:


Look I don't give two shits about the 'tards war' or whatever. Natsu is not obsessed with killing Acnologia, he went on a training to get stronger so that he can protect everyone. Now I don't care what the so called 'natsu tards' say about Gray, because I have my own opinion about him.