Xiaraith said: grave_robber said: not only was the town lied to by telling them there were 22 pro-town roles when there were actually 21, the anit-town role was hidden, this is clear deception on your part as hosts. Thus, it breaks the trust between player and host. Wait, did Pyro explicitly tell you that there were 22 pro-town roles in this game? I did not as far as I remember, and it was certainly never my intention to lie to anyone, if it appears this way for whatever reason. Listing the traitor as a hidden role under the town roles was the lie. If you wanna have a traitor, don't hide it. This was my 1st time playing with a traitor role, did you really think townies like me or ones who'd never even heard of a traitor would guess it was an anti-town role? Anyhow, I don't wanna get into a discussion over what constitutes a lie, lies by definition are the act of hiding the truth, so by omission (which you did here) are you lying because you're hiding the truth? This wasn't hiding an ability, no, this was the act of hiding the fact that it was anti-town role not a pro-town role! Hiding a negative utility role might be ok but hiding a clearly anti-town role which is listed as pro-town is a lie and an act of deception by the hosts whether you want to admit it or not. |
The_Pyromaani said: There is 22 town roles. Like listed. Never said anything more about them. listed as pro-town when in fact, it was anti-town and it was hidden. Anyhow, you asked me to post my feedback here so I did. Again, this is just my opinion, I'm sure others have their own. This is the impression you left on me as a host, next time just say it's a bastard game in the signup so I know what I'm getting into. |
| Xia, could I see inside the phantom club please. |
 Where there is no imagination there is no horror. || Arthur Conan Doyle || Happy Halloween! |
| Well grave, I do understand what you are trying to say, but claiming that it's been your first time playing with a traitor is not true, as you have been co-host of Pyro's DBZ game, which also had a traitor, and coincidentally, also listed in the town roles (though not hidden). You and other players who were already familiar with Pyro's games might have considered the possibility of a traitor in this game too. I'm really sorry if the fact that he was hidden comes along as a lie from our part: I didn't know until a few minutes ago that roles listed as town have to necessarily be 100% pro-town aligned. |
Xiaraith said: Well grave, I do understand what you are trying to say, but claiming that it's been your first time playing with a traitor is not true, as you have been co-host of Pyro's DBZ game, which also had a traitor, and coincidentally, also listed in the town roles (though not hidden). You and other players who were already familiar with Pyro's games might have considered the possibility of a traitor in this game too. I'm really sorry if the fact that he was hidden comes along as a lie from our part: I didn't know until a few minutes ago that roles listed as town have to necessarily be 100% pro-town aligned. I would like to say in a game with 2 3rd party killing roles and 2 mafia teams a hidden traitor was a bit much so I can see where Grave is coming from. But I do agree with you on the 2 janitors not been a problem but that is maybe just because of been used to getting no info from SOLC games. |
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| Would love to be invited to the mafia clubs. Especially Suzune's one. Thanks Xia-chan ^u^ |
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Jackrito said: I would like to say in a game with 2 3rd party killing roles and 2 mafia teams a hidden traitor was a bit much so I can see where Grave is coming from. The game had so many killing roles because of the huge amount of players, and we didn't want the game to drag out far too long. On the other hand, town had not less but 4 investigation roles, but unfortunately for town, not a single of them got results. Maybe that's one the reasons why mafia appeared overpowered to a few players. |
Sorlana said: Would love to be invited to the mafia clubs. Especially Suzune's one. Thanks Xia-chan ^u^ This inviting system lol. Let me try again... |
Xiaraith said: Well grave, I do understand what you are trying to say, but claiming that it's been your first time playing with a traitor is not true, as you have been co-host of Pyro's DBZ game, which also had a traitor, and coincidentally, also listed in the town roles (though not hidden). You and other players who were already familiar with Pyro's games might have considered the possibility of a traitor in this game too. I'm really sorry if the fact that he was hidden comes along as a lie from our part: I didn't know until a few minutes ago that roles listed as town have to necessarily be 100% pro-town aligned. Hosting is NOT the same as playing As for my hosting duties in that game, I only did vote count at first, and when I did more than that it was AFTER the traitor was lynched. I only remember a handful of the roles from that game. Furthermore, you just admitted that in DBZ game, the role was NOT hidden and in play view for all townies to know and see it was an anti-town role. Traitor is always listed under town even though it's anti-town. Hiding it was wrong and you know it. You wanna say I knew about it, fine, i'll bite, how about the other players who've never even heard of it? Please stop pretending you didn't mess up on that front. |
Xiaraith said: Jackrito said: I would like to say in a game with 2 3rd party killing roles and 2 mafia teams a hidden traitor was a bit much so I can see where Grave is coming from. The game had so many killing roles because of the huge amount of players, and we didn't want the game to drag out far too long. On the other hand, town had not less but 4 investigation roles, but unfortunately for town, not a single of them got results. Maybe that's one the reasons why mafia appeared overpowered to a few players. I don't think mafia were overpowered in 3 party games the mafia normally kill each other so they need some good roles. The fact that all invest roles got nothing is really unluckly overall I though the game was mostly fair but I died so early I can not really judge. I do also agree about needing that many killing roles because of players and also the shop means less deaths so it was needed. |
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| Heh, Juzzy was the Suzune of the phantoms I see. |
 |
Doughkey said: Heh, Juzzy was the Suzune of the phantoms I see. RIP his poor soul. We relied on him greatly. |
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| I do understand that we might have messed up on that front, but I can also see where you are coming from, grave, that is finding enjoyment in analyzing games based on players and possible roles (that's probably why this janitor/coroner issue is bugging you), and of course someone who tackles games with this mindset wants to have a clear grasp on the possible roles. What I want to say now, I'd actually like to hear opinions of other players and if they perceive a hidden traitor as such a great upset too... |
| This isn't going anywhere, like I said, next time, just say it's a bastard game so players know to expect lies and deception from the host. Also, if you plan to hide roles and abilities and use a test setup, say so in the signup thread and specify that it's not open setup. |
Xiaraith said: I do understand that we might have messed up on that front, but I can also see where you are coming from, grave, that is finding enjoyment in analyzing games based on players and possible roles (that's probably why this janitor/coroner issue is bugging you), and of course someone who tackles games with this mindset wants to have a clear grasp on the possible roles. What I want to say now, I'd actually like to hear opinions of other players and if they perceive a hidden traitor as such a great upset too... My personal opinion is that I hate closed setups, hidden abilities and non-revealed roles. I just don't like being in the dark about stuff. On the other hand, hidden roles are open to a bunch of possibilities. So a traitor role was not to be unexpected. |
|
Jackrito said: I don't think mafia were overpowered in 3 party games the mafia normally kill each other so they need some good roles. The fact that all invest roles got nothing is really unluckly overall I though the game was mostly fair but I died so early I can not really judge. . Yes, I kinda expected that mafia tries to kill each other a bit more, but they successfully avoided the other mafia faction quite nicely. The possibility of mafia killing each other is also one of the main reasons why the ratio mafia/town of one specific mafia faction is >30% this time around. |
| Congrats, ants. This was a really fun game. Sorry for being so inactive towards the end. Thanks for hosting, Pyro and Xia. You really made this a great game. :) |
| I dont really get how we lied. This word. Lies is bugging me most. |
~I am just one sadist who supports friends~  |
Sorlana said: Xiaraith said: I do understand that we might have messed up on that front, but I can also see where you are coming from, grave, that is finding enjoyment in analyzing games based on players and possible roles (that's probably why this janitor/coroner issue is bugging you), and of course someone who tackles games with this mindset wants to have a clear grasp on the possible roles. What I want to say now, I'd actually like to hear opinions of other players and if they perceive a hidden traitor as such a great upset too... My personal opinion is that I hate closed setups, hidden abilities and non-revealed roles. I just don't like being in the dark about stuff. On the other hand, hidden roles are open to a bunch of possibilities. So a traitor role was not to be unexpected. anyone who knew HXH would be able to guess that role was a possible traitor since they are in the show also a bit of background info can help a lot in themed games. |
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Sorlana said: Xiaraith said: I do understand that we might have messed up on that front, but I can also see where you are coming from, grave, that is finding enjoyment in analyzing games based on players and possible roles (that's probably why this janitor/coroner issue is bugging you), and of course someone who tackles games with this mindset wants to have a clear grasp on the possible roles. What I want to say now, I'd actually like to hear opinions of other players and if they perceive a hidden traitor as such a great upset too... My personal opinion is that I hate closed setups, hidden abilities and non-revealed roles. I just don't like being in the dark about stuff. On the other hand, hidden roles are open to a bunch of possibilities. So a traitor role was not to be unexpected. Maybe I have played too many Town of Salem and SoLC mafia games these past couple months, as I am personally quite familiar with (half-)closed setups and hidden abilities. |
DoubleC said: Doughkey said: Heh, Juzzy was the Suzune of the phantoms I see. RIP his poor soul. We relied on him greatly. Just finished all the phantom reading. You guys were in a really great position at first and suddenly s**t hit the fan. I think it is funny whenever we started to heavily question one of you, you would just stop replying as much and we would forget about it. I got a chuckle out of reading the plan between you and Ard to mess with Grave too. Staff edit: refrain from swearing please, or at the very least censor it. |
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Jackrito said: Sorlana said: My personal opinion is that I hate closed setups, hidden abilities and non-revealed roles. I just don't like being in the dark about stuff. On the other hand, hidden roles are open to a bunch of possibilities. So a traitor role was not to be unexpected. anyone who knew HXH would be able to guess that role was a possible traitor since they are in the show also a bit of background info can help a lot in themed games. Also coromandel mentioned Tonpa being possible traitor like day 1 or 2 |
~I am just one sadist who supports friends~ |
| coromandel is wise. |
-MidnightOwl- said: coromandel is wise. Didnt you also think possibility of traitor xD |
~I am just one sadist who supports friends~ |
The_Pyromaani said: Jackrito said: anyone who knew HXH would be able to guess that role was a possible traitor since they are in the show also a bit of background info can help a lot in themed games. Also coromandel mentioned Tonpa being possible traitor like day 1 or 2 I know NOTHING about HxH, not in a million years would I have know that tonpa = traitor. I don't even know what my character looks like (probably some old dude with a big white beard). Anyhow, I apologize for being to harsh about this. I'm upset that you didn't inform us before the game started of the nature of the setup, that you were going to hide roles, that an anti-town role was hidden and placed under pro-town roles (I know traitor goes under town roles but hiding it was wrong, because it concealed the fact that it was anti-town and yes that is a form of lying and when hosts lie and deceive players, it's called bastard modding). Look at points #1 & #2 from the definition of bastar modding: [*]The moderator lies to players, either in their Role PMs (as in False roles) or in their revealed information (as in Death Miller). Yeah, you hid the traitor's true alignment upon his death, he should have been listed as phantom aligned and colored purple. So this point Check! [*]The game incorporates significant game-changing mechanics (Cult being a notorious example) that affects players who may not know about them. Hiding the anti-town role, affects all players who don't know it and changes the game drastically. So this point Check! If only 1 of those points is checked it's a bastard game, you have 2 points! Congrats! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- You wanna host bastard games, that's fine and dandy, but I like to know what I'm getting into before I get into it. That's my point. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Once more, I enjoyed the game, you guys did a great job and I truly thank you for it! |
x_at_home said: Good game everyone. ^^ Congrats to the winners, especially Himi and Suzu for holding out that long and winning in the end and Saya for awesome jester play. Thank you X <3 Xiaraith said: Okay, if anyone else wants any invite to one of the secret clubs, just say so. I'd love to get invites please :3 I do have some feedback, but it might take a couple days >.< |
 |
| Poor, poor inactive town... |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
| They never had a chance..... |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
| GG, and thanks for hosting Pyro. What a fun game. |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Xiaraith said: I do understand that we might have messed up on that front, but I can also see where you are coming from, grave, that is finding enjoyment in analyzing games based on players and possible roles (that's probably why this janitor/coroner issue is bugging you), and of course someone who tackles games with this mindset wants to have a clear grasp on the possible roles. What I want to say now, I'd actually like to hear opinions of other players and if they perceive a hidden traitor as such a great upset too... asu loves closed games :D:D:D reading teh hider role description in teh opening post it seems taht it is stated taht teh hider is an ant tho its rather deceptively written and can come across as being percieved as a full town role asu does admit taht balancing out large games is not an easy task >_< asu knos taht teh ants killed asu but asu still doesnt knos which one >_< |
kg-san said: Asu you're still a fragile flower... But its ok cause you're a beautiful flower! 花火花火花火 :D:D:D |
Asunyan said: It was probably Byon. Byon did most of our killing. I ordered the hit though. I was disappointed when you were the oracle though, I wanted himi to roleclaim it.Xiaraith said: I do understand that we might have messed up on that front, but I can also see where you are coming from, grave, that is finding enjoyment in analyzing games based on players and possible roles (that's probably why this janitor/coroner issue is bugging you), and of course someone who tackles games with this mindset wants to have a clear grasp on the possible roles. What I want to say now, I'd actually like to hear opinions of other players and if they perceive a hidden traitor as such a great upset too... asu loves closed games :D:D:D reading teh hider role description in teh opening post it seems taht it is stated taht teh hider is an ant tho its rather deceptively written and can come across as being percieved as a full town role asu does admit taht balancing out large games is not an easy task >_< asu knos taht teh ants killed asu but asu still doesnt knos which one >_< |
Where there is no imagination there is no horror. || Arthur Conan Doyle || Happy Halloween! |
Suzune-chan said: Asunyan said: It was probably Byon. Byon did most of our killing. I ordered the hit though. I was disappointed when you were the oracle though, I wanted himi to roleclaim it.asu loves closed games :D:D:D reading teh hider role description in teh opening post it seems taht it is stated taht teh hider is an ant tho its rather deceptively written and can come across as being percieved as a full town role asu does admit taht balancing out large games is not an easy task >_< asu knos taht teh ants killed asu but asu still doesnt knos which one >_< asu is curious nows what role did you thinks asu had |
kg-san said: Asu you're still a fragile flower... But its ok cause you're a beautiful flower! 花火花火花火 :D:D:D |
| I had hoped that Asu was part of the phantom. We were desperate to weaken the phantom, however, we continue killing townies on accident. |
Where there is no imagination there is no horror. || Arthur Conan Doyle || Happy Halloween! |
Suzune-chan said: I had hoped that Asu was part of the phantom. We were desperate to weaken the phantom, however, we continue killing townies on accident. Really? You should've lied and said it was all part of your plan. I still think you played a great game. |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Suzune-chan said: I had hoped that Asu was part of the phantom. We were desperate to weaken the phantom, however, we continue killing townies on accident. tahts slightly lulzy asu was townie :D:D:D tho it doesnt seems taht taht mattered much in teh ends >_< asu doesnt likes being investigative roles much >_< |
kg-san said: Asu you're still a fragile flower... But its ok cause you're a beautiful flower! 花火花火花火 :D:D:D |
LucianRoy said: Several good things happened that were part of the plan. That kill on Asu, was not my high moment. Although what came out of a slightly bad moment was brilliant and work well. Suzune-chan said: I had hoped that Asu was part of the phantom. We were desperate to weaken the phantom, however, we continue killing townies on accident. Really? You should've lied and said it was all part of your plan. I still think you played a great game. |
Suzune-chanFeb 26, 2015 4:32 PM
Where there is no imagination there is no horror. || Arthur Conan Doyle || Happy Halloween! |
| ah.. if only i wasn't sick i should have survived too. but we manage to won anyway that's great |
| "This is boring...I'm bored..." |
| Looks like we're not going to reach 10k |
|
| gg guys I had tons of fun playing with you all! |
 [ |
FrozenBeast said: gg guys I had tons of fun playing with you all! But Frozen... |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
LucianRoy said: FrozenBeast said: gg guys I had tons of fun playing with you all! But Frozen... shhh! |
| [ |
| Congratulations ants C:~ and saya x'D Thanks pyro for the amazing game <3 About my feedback:
To be honest the roles overall were perfect c:, Thanks again for hosting this game <3 and Grave for inviting me to play C: Sorry for being useless the whole game town lawl |
grave_robber said: Once more, I enjoyed the game, you guys did a great job and I truly thank you for it! Thank you so much, grave. I would vote for you as best mafia player on this site any time, and reading your posts in particular gives these games a whole new level of quality. |
Suzune-chan said: I had hoped that Asu was part of the phantom. We were desperate to weaken the phantom, however, we continue killing townies on accident. Town even died "on accident" ^^ They really had a difficult standing this game, but nonetheless could have most likely won if it hadn't been e.g. for the random mislynch of Soda. |
| Thanks for the feedback guys! |
~I am just one sadist who supports friends~ |
| I loved the game for the second half I played. Unfortunately my faction didn't have a high gold income so I couldn't experience one of the unique feutures in this game. Having plot twists makes for a more enjoyable game imo, so i don't mind one of the hidden roles being a traitor. Tbh it's not really traitorious unless you think of him as your ally. Having a lot of experience from mafia games on other sites, i can expect anything from hidden roles. I love hidden roles and closed setups. This discussion makes me think we should have more games with a traitor role(but it should maybe be stated in the op). Maybe even reverse mafia? |
  |
| Can we spam the thread now? |
grave_robber said: Why not?Can we spam the thread now? |
|
Byon-kun said: Maybe even reverse mafia? Wow, just read about Reverse Mafia, and this sounds like such a unique experience! grave_robber said: Can we spam the thread now? Wanna reach 10k that badly? ^^ |
| Honorable mention to that phantoms where half of the members were mod killed. Great job! |
Sometimes, I face up before I sneeze and let spit shower my face. Just me things. |
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