Visual Novels

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We like visual novels in all shapes and forms. :3

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Where to get visual novels rpgdiva	14 replies	by Lootskin »» 11-18-09, 5:28 AM
Dark VNs? ( 1 2 ) dragonshade	27 replies	by kishima »» 11-12-09, 2:49 AM
Which visual novels have you played or want to play? ( 1 2 3 4 ) yuri_fangirl	62 replies	by Lootskin »» 11-11-09, 9:26 AM
Sticky: Visual Novels with Anime/Manga Adaptations accela	9 replies	by Shinkenshi »» 11-09-09, 11:40 AM
What did you just finish playing? ( 1 2 ) Entropy	20 replies	by whobody »» 11-08-09, 3:40 AM

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Mueti | 11-12-09, 1:22 PM

Uhm, yeah, you obviously need words for the grammar to apply in practice - but you don't need them to understand the concepts themselves, that's all I meant. But I see what you're getting at now, we simply talked past each other.
You also missed a part in my second paragraph: I said that I was always reading something along the way, as in, I learned about 10 Kanji and all correlating words a day, as well as reading something (manga in the beginning, later novels and some VN). The mentioned aha-moments happened because I always noticed the results of the dry learning fairly quickly this way. ;)

Shinkenshi | 11-12-09, 7:40 AM

Each person have their own way of learning. Simply because it's a test requirement doesn't mean it's always a good way to learn. Mueti didn't say that it's a good way to study for JLPT1, simply that it worked for him reading manga and playing games. Let's be honest here: how much of that correlates to everyday Japanese?

For me, since I am Chinese, I can recognize basically all the kanji; therefore, my focus was on the pronunciation and the spoken language instead of the writing, and that's basically the general approach the teachers took in Hopkins the one semester I took Japanese there (dialogue based backed up by vocab and grammar used in the convo).

Iryoku | 11-12-09, 6:06 AM

Even if do you know the grammar, that doesn't mean a damn thing, since you can't write/say anything cause of the vocabulary lack, no? Therefore, it's completely useless :D
And since I've also read many kinds of text, etc, I can't agree that you'll ultimately become better. Rather, you have to actually learn the new words... Even if you do learn a couple by reading a text, I doubt that you can do the same 10000 times, right? (since that's the word count you require for the JLPT Lvl1)...

Shinkenshi | 11-11-09, 11:07 PM

Just started Rance. Goddam, SO disappointed in the highly praised gameplay. It's basically a dumbed down version of Nobunaga and Sangokushi series from what I've seen the first few turns. Oh well, at least some dialogues are funny. Definitely NOT a good title to revive my interest in visual novels. Guess I'll go back to finishing Aoi Shiro or Kiss My Deity.

Mueti | 11-11-09, 11:36 AM

I don't quite see how grammar would give you trouble without extensive knowledge of vocabulary - you can understand grammatical concepts perfectly fine based on a couple of examples that don't require a huge vocabulary, no? Or am I misunderstanding you somehow?

And the studying itself isn't very exciting but since I always was/am reading something along the way I've had many an aha-moment when I noticed that I no longer had to look up certain Kanji and could read through longer and longer pieces of text fluently. Very satisfying.

Iryoku | 11-10-09, 4:44 PM

Manga isn't hard to translate, but that doesn't actually apply to a novice ^^' You'll just end up being confused with the words/grammar.
If you don't believe me, try to translate a song (Jap -> Eng), and you'll see my meaning :D (Unlike many people think, songs really AREN'T worth translating, cause they lose they real quality, but it's possible, yes).

eddyak | 11-10-09, 4:31 PM

I'm planning on learning the basics, then trying to translate simple stories or manga, and looking up the kanji/words as I go along. With enough time, I could learn it better that way.

Iryoku | 11-10-09, 4:18 PM

@Mueti:
If you don't learn all kanji (many kanji = many words thanks to the 訓読み /kun reading/... although originally I started to learn some side grammar around the count of 1000), you'll struggle through the grammar process. I had tried your method in the past, and it sadly failed... To say the truth, studying Japanese isn't that exciting, at all. What's exciting is when you use it later (play games/talk/chat/etc, for example)