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| So my relationship with anime has basically dwindled to only watching it in March, so I understand this is a super late response but it's new to me so I want to respond anyway. Ended up checking your profile because I wanted to reference other OP Movies in my response and didn't want to spoil them too much if you haven't seen them, but it appears you also haven't been on MAL in about a year. Guess we're actually kindred spirits. But yeah, I'm not expecting any sort of response but I'm bored and this stuff is fun. Madonis said: really don't agree with the vast majority of your criticisms, but I'll discuss only one part of them here in the interest of saving time. Objectively, Uta grew up feeling abandoned by Shanks. You can't easily erase the pain and suffering of such a traumatic experience, especially at such a young age. That's arguably quite realistic. Furthermore, it is clearly incorrect to say that Uta knew everything. No, she saw a recording showing Shanks and the pirates attacking Tot Musica, while someone blames her for the destruction. That's all, it's not a full explanation or anything. That...doesn't really make things any easier for Uta. This is a minor point since it's not really related to my criticism's, but the only thing Uta didn't really know about what happened was Shanks motivation for abandoning her after the attack. Least by the time of the film, she clearly understood Tot Musica and it's involvement in the incident, otherwise she wouldn't have kept it for this, wouldn't have unleashed it later in the film, and wouldn't have said stuff to Gordon like "Why didn't you throw it away! Maybe you were hoping for the dawn of a new age too" (around 42 minutes into the movie). And there's only really too options for why Shanks would've left her behind. Either the truth where he left her behind so she could pursue her singing career, which she definitely could've figured out as it was their last major conversation with each-other, and I know in her shoes I'd be replaying the conversation all the time in my head. Or she could've thought that Shanks abandoned her because Shanks blames her for the attack, the framing of the reveal implies she believes this. But I imagine she never settled on a definitive opinion, and was probably a source of constant agony for her. Keep in mind this only happened after she had already become famous. On the contrary, she has spent more than a year gaining fans through their shared hatred and victimization at the hands of pirates, and now...she realizes that at least part of this shared experience was based on a lie. What could she do? Revealing the truth would most likely make people hate her and Uta was already embarking on a plan that, from her perspective, would save the population from any further violence. Knowing that you can't reveal the truth to anyone adds to her anxiety, rather than calming her. It's not a wise decision, but Uta is not supposed to be a highly experienced and mature individual. Quite the opposite. Okay I think I get it, you're saying Uta was lying. See, when I watched the movie, I took Uta's feelings & reactions as genuine. I thought she legitimately couldn't reconcile the idea of a Pirate also being a good person, so that when she found out Luffy was a Pirate and he wouldn't quit when she asked, she took that as him committing to the bad side. If you believed that Uta genuinely had believed pirates to be the source of all that's wrong and couldn't reconcile the idea of good pirates then my original opinion still seems inarguable to me. That those feelings and belief would be more strongly justified if she thought Shanks was the the one behind the attacks. I was stating there's no reasonable explanations for Uta's emotional state, I acknowledge some people will still find it justified, I was criticizing the movie for leading with a stronger emotional driver for her worldview, then replacing it with one that's objectively weaker. Again, at least if you believe that she couldn't reconcile the concept of a "Good pirate". It sounds like what you're saying is "Of course she knows that being a pirate doesn't automatically make you a bad person, but treating Luffy any differently would risk revealing the truth to the people she's sworn to save from piracy." So even if she doesn't believe Luffy is bad, she has to treat him like a villain for the optics, because she can't risk revealing the truth. Which could be the case, it fits with the idol theming since idols often have to portray personalities to appeal to their demos. And it does make my complaint invalid since Uta wouldn't actually have that strong hatred for Pirates as I thought. I don't know that I agree with that reading, but maybe. I will say however, that would make me like her even less. Like sure it makes sense, but just understanding the reasons why someone does something doesn't make them more likable. And I would like Uta more if her hatred to Pirates and turn on Luffy for being one was genuine, rather than something that's kind of a performance. If I'm wrong and that's not what you were getting at, then I guess no comment because otherwise I don't see how that counters my criticism. As someone who lives in the year 2023...it's a fact of life that many people in our current society will resort to various types of drugs or even just alcohol for many reasons, both of which can have a significant effect on people's behavior and emotions. Anime may exaggerate this a little, but the idea itself is also nothing remotely absurd nor impossible. Besides, I think there's plenty of foreshadowing throughout the movie, before we get the exposition scenes. Therefore, it wasn't an element they threw in at the last minute. It's only "manipulative" if you believe anime isn't allowed to include such things in the first place, even if they exist in our reality (and many real people are either dead or in jail for actions they committed under the influence). You definitely didn't understand my criticism so let me make myself clear, the reason I called it "manipulative" had nothing to do with it being drugs. I don't think it's manipulative to have drugs in anime, One Piece proper has done it before and I'm fine with it. I don't think it's manipulative to have drugs alter a characters personality, the same month I watched Film Red, I had also watched Cyberpunk: Edgerunners, an anime explicitly about that. And while I don't love the show, I wouldn't call it manipulative. In fact, the reason I called her Uta Uchiha in the paragraph about Wake-Shrooms specifically isn't because of the Madara references everyone makes. It's because Naruto does the exact same thing I'm criticizing Film Red for, except in Naruto, drugs aren't involved at all. I won't go into that because I don't want to spoil Naruto but I can explain what I mean using One Piece proper as an example. I think Ace's death in One Piece proper is kinda manipulative. It's not because I don't think it's realistic for someone to die by getting donutted, it has nothing to do with Ace's death at all. Oda had almost certainly planned for Ace's death by the time of his introduction in Alabasta, however Ace wasn't giving a ton of screentime prior to his death to really solidify his character. I would argue most of his characterization comes after his death, or at the very least, in the chapters leading up to his death. But this is a pivotal moment, so how do you ensure his death holds the impact necessary when you don't necessarily have the time to truly bond the audience with the character? Well, one way is to condition the audience into believing that nobody dies in current day One Piece, so that when Ace becomes the first to do so, it packs an extra punch. So when Pell or Pagaya survive their death scenes, it feels like it's done in service of Ace's eventual death. Pagaya's not that bad, but Pell's surviving hasn't amounted to anything in the story proper, and actually hurts Alabasta which spent a good time dedicated to the idea that war has causalities and Vivi wasn't going to accomplish this without losing anyone. Pell's death was the perfect way to tie up that thematic bow, and him surviving undermines that. And seemingly the only benefit towards that was to make Ace's death more impactful due to the surprise. To be fair, while Oda has certainly got better about actually killing characters off, he's still pretty bad with the amount of fake-out deaths and people turning up alive undercutting the dramatic tension, so I don't necessarily think it's intentional but functionally I'll still call it as such. Regardless, that's a scenario where even if you disagree with my assessment, it should be easy to understand why I think it's manipulative, even if I don't think his death scene itself is manipulative. It's the same scenario here, what I find manipulative isn't the drugs, it's the fact that they waited to reveal this until right before she unleashes Tot Musica to reveal this information, despite it making perfect sense to introduce it earlier. As I brought up in my initial post, why would Blueno & Koby mentioned that aspect of the Wake-Shrooms when they give the rundown of their situation to Luffy, Law, & others (around 52 minutes in when they discuss the Wake-Shrooms)? In-Series, the only reasons they wouldn't mention it is either A. They don't know about it, or B. They don't think it's important. The former I just don't believe, it makes no sense that this would be a secret side-effect only known to a few select cooks, especially since "making you aggressive & lose control of your emotions" is a pretty obvious side-effect then anyone would be able to observe. And the latter is more believable but would just paint them as super incompetent since the emotional stability of Uta is something that is incredibly important considering the circumstances. So I don't think it makes sense In-Series for them not to divulge this information but out of series, it makes perfect sense. Uta's about to do something awful in releasing Tot Musica, and since they want to ensure that Uta remains sympathetic to the audience, revealing this additional effect right before she does something awful will produce a chilling effect to the hostility the audience might feel to her. Had they simply revealed this earlier along with the other information, I wouldn't have called it manipulative. I'll grant I might not have liked it since I still think it's a pretty shallow/surface-level depiction of drug use (in fairness, maybe I was subconsciously comparing it to Cyberpunk's portrayal, which isn't entirely fair to Film Red), but I certainly wouldn't have been as aggressive about it or labeled it manipulative. So if you want to change my mind on this, you'd have to argue that there's a strong reason for Blueno & Koby not to mention this side-effect and/or give a strong reason to wait until right before Uta unleashing Tot Musica that has nothing to do with providing a chilling effect. Now, this doesn't mean you'd have to agree me with me. I think it'd be fair to say either "maybe it is manipulative but it is effective, and I watch media to be brought on an emotional journey so I'm not going to fault them for that" or more where I think you'll land "most media is structured in a way to elicit an emotional reaction, I don't think this reaches the pejorative of "manipulation" because shining a light on real-world issues matter's more than just being as forthright about what they were going for". I don't really agree with either, particularly the latter, but I think are fine responses to my criticism. As for the foreshadowing, I don't really remember any but it's been a year, so maybe I forgot. Only thing I remember is Sanji noticing the Wake-Shrooms early and reacting to them, which hints that he at least knows what they are, but not to the actual effects. I couldn't find it while skimming but I'm 100% confident that it was before the audience was even clued into what the Wake-Shrooms are. I don't recall any other instances but if you come back on, feel free to list them because I could've missed it. The only other thing I think you could mean with foreshadowing, is that you can use it to explain some of Uta's previous outbursts or reactions, which sure you could post-hoc but Uta's negative reactions to the people rejecting the forever concert makes perfect sense without any drug involvement. It doesn't need that to explain anything. Almost her entire social life has been hearing nothing but praise from her fandom or hearing them complain about pirates and how her music helps make it easier to get by or whatever. So obviously, when she comes up with a way to save them for their plight, after only ever being on a pedestal for them, along with the aforementioned guilt with Tot Musica, obviously when they reject her she's going to take it hard because she never got the chance to learn how to handle that healthily, and I'm sure she's also messed up because if she believes she caused Shanks to abandon her with the Tot Musica attack in the past, she's worried about a similar level happening again. You could call it foreshadowing because it lines up with her previous actions, but the drugs themselves aren't necessary in explaining that. They do however, make it more palatable for people to empathize with her, because it might've been too much of an ask for people to empathize with her without that external force. Which a total aside, while skimming through the movie again, they imply the initial attack was brought upon but Tot Musica exerting influence over child Uta before she even read it. Didn't remember that, thought she just found them and sang it because why would she expect anything bad to happen from that. I don't mind this on a kid level because nobody reasonable would truly blame kid Uta, but I assume this means even in the modern day Tot Musica might be influencing her on top of the drugs as well. Which blegh, but it's a small line so this is a minor quibble if anything. I would say the parallel you've mentioned does exist, among others, but it's up to the viewer to make such judgments of morality and ethics. I didn't need the movie to jump out and explicitly spell it out for me, to be honest. Especially since it's hard to give Shanks the spotlight as a character before the manga gives him a lot more attention, so the film needed to be careful about how much he was allowed to say or do. Despite that...there's various connections we can identify and draw, but they are more implicit than anything else. Further, I would say the movie does sympathize with his intentions being initially good, but I didn't feel his action in and of itself was necessarily being justified at all. Parents can make mistakes that hurt their children all the time, even if they thought those actions were for their own good, and you don't always need someone to say "I admit that was wrong" for the underlying message to be conveyed. Hell, you could argue that Shanks coming back to save her and exposing himself, in practice, already says a lot. You don't have to say the parallel exists, I explicitly said it did. My contention was that they don't do anything with it. For example, I don't know if you've seen Film Gold, but in broad strokes, the villain of that movie gets a backstory. I love his flashblack, it's one of my favourite scenes in any One Piece movie. I've rewatched it several times, I love the story itself but particularly how it's shot. However, I would argue they don't really do anything with it. If you remove the backstory, nothing about the movie really changes. You'll understand the big bad more, but that's it. His backstory never really comes back into play at the end, despite how easy to do such (literally just like a line of dialogue would've suffice). Like how I praised Film Red for featuring The World's Continuation earlier on so it meant more in the climax, Gold doesn't do anything like that with the backstory. Granted, a flashback is something more tangible than a parallel, I guess I'd want more concrete criticisms. And of course I didn't need the movie to jump out and explicitly spell it out for me either, because as you can tell from my previous post, I had already came to my own moral judgments about the situations. My problem is that I don't agree with what I read to be the movie's stance. Like Luffy's reaction to finding out why Shanks' abandoned her is "that makes him a good guy" and while Luffy's an idiot, he's pretty much utilized as the show's moral compass, I can't think of any instance where the show doesn't align with Luffy's perspective. Granted, any other instance is more implicit, I would argue the reveal of why Shanks abandoned her as a whole is painted quite favourable towards him, from like the music, Gordon's reaction, and the general tone and I guess you could argue Uta not being swayed by this is them disagreeing with it. Although typically, series don't side with the antagonists so I wouldn't use her positions to defend the movie's position on things. Being charitable, I assume the reason they didn't really criticize Shanks at all throughout the movie is because they obviously want people to sympathize with Uta, and from a Utilitarian aspect what Uta's doing is far worse than what Shanks did, so how can they go hard on Shanks if they want people to still feel for Uta despite her actions being worse. At least from a Utilitarian perspective, personally I'd probably say Shanks' actions were worse than Uta's. But uncharitably, it feels pretty cowardly to me. You mentioned that they are kind of handicapped due to Shanks' position in the manga. Which side-bar, I don't view is a defense of the movie, I view that as a negative. They shouldn't be telling a story where they'd be handicap by the canon to this extent to begin, they could've made the movie about anything, they didn't have to give Shanks the spotlight. I kinda feel like part of the reason they were so reserved in being critical of Shanks is solely because they're afraid of any backlash considering his popularity and important stature in the series. And Shanks coming back to save her and expose himself just highlights his love for her, something I never doubted he had. |
| Movie quite peak Music in the movie fire Like the fits for everyone Fighting scenes pretty peak Also the time this movie takes place in the main story is so confusing lmao gear 5 but Big Mom still alive |
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| Sorry the movie was terrible . People didn't come here to see La La Land but to see a normal One Piece movie . This should have been an One Piece film with some non canon elements (in this case the singing) not a non canon elements movie with some One Piece references. The only reason this was successful, is because of the influence of the One Piece franchise and this comes from a big fan of the franchise . Not mention the elements that are still not in the anime for someone who watch this movie chronologically after episode 1030 of the main series and I don't understand how someone who is one piece fan and not a a tourist can call this movie peak. |
YubisoftMay 6, 4:35 AM
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