| ain't reading all that just to deny you |
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KanataX said: I hate to say it, but this guy seems legit.do people unironically still believe in this whole thing 😭 Schlitt's Youtube Channel One of his videos I admit, I was kind of harsh to report this as a troll between this hot take and the recent MAL creation. I do not agree with you, but at least you appear to be serious, or at least putting effort into your trolling. That deserves some commendation, I suppose. This unhinged, vitrolic hate frothing at the mouth for Griffith keeps them from appreciating how well-written Berserk is Spoken like a true 19 year old. I feel embarassed, but the general consensus is that Griffith did not fundamentally "change" in the manner you are describing him as he transformed into Femto. There was no biological neurological changes here to his personality. This was him throwing away the last bit of humanity by his own accord, changing his worldview to suit his actions and past actions.Raping Casca was not only excessive, but a choice done by Griffith. He and Femto are clearly the same person, and this interpretation is the only one that really works for his character arc; in a way, it is not different from Brightburn and Homelander. The major issue with Brightburn is that hitting puberty turned Brandon into a sociopath overnight, whereas Homelander became who he was by both his circumstances and just what he desired. Griffith is very much the latter. That is kind of the point, as it is with every apostle. They may be manipulated, but their choices are still wholly of their own agency. Berserk is a novel that explores determinism as well as human indecency. |
PeripheralVisionMay 29, 2023 6:50 AM
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| I kinda just skimmed what you said, but this is what I gotta say he killed his whole squad (except for guts and casca) just to become a God hand because he was close to dying. That's pretty unethical he was a terrible person since day one and shoulda died |
| "Tits don't make the woman. It's the ass." - Darx |
| UUUUUUUUGGGHHHHHHH |
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Sichlitt said: Except that removing the human intent render his malevolence as not only less than human, but makes him less of a character with any sort of agency. To me, saying that Griffith was essentially "mind-controlled" and void of any and all culpability, or however you want to put it as makes him a fumdanetal non-character. To me, this makes his character and the journey he took far less engaging than it otherwise would be.PeripheralVision said: Wrong. The idea of evil explains to Griffith that his human compassion and affective empathy has been artificially stripped from him by the transformation:I hate to say it, but this guy seems legit. Schlitt's Youtube Channel One of his videos I admit, I was kind of harsh to report this as a troll between this hot take and the recent MAL creation. I do not agree with you, but at least you appear to be serious, or at least putting effort into your trolling. That deserves some commendation, I suppose. Spoken like a true 19 year old. I feel embarassed, but the general consensus is that Griffith did not fundamentally "change" in the manner you are describing him as he transformed into Femto. There was no biological neurological changes here to his personality. This was him throwing away the last bit of humanity by his own accord, changing his worldview to suit his actions and past actions. Raping Casca was not only excessive, but a choice done by Griffith. He and Femto are clearly the same person, and this interpretation is the only one that really works for his character arc; in a way, it is not different from Brightburn and Homelander. The major issue with Brightburn is that hitting puberty turned Brandon into a sociopath overnight, whereas Homelander became who he was by both his circumstances and just what he desired. Griffith is very much the latter. That is kind of the point, as it is with every apostle. They may be manipulated, but their choices are still wholly of their own agency. Berserk is a novel that explores determinism as well as human indecency. "All their deaths are piercing through me! How STRANGE, I can't feel anything! What's this?" "The last tear you will ever shed." Griffith's heart is "frozen" and he is SURPRISED because the God Hand never told him of this aspect of the transformation and he did NOT consent to lose his humanity in this way. Griffith can't be accountable for this loss of empathy. The God Hand DO explain to the Count that the transformation will "shed any last remnants of his humanity" indicating that the strength of the transformation and its psyche-altering effects are magnified by a compounding number of sacrifices. The more the bodies, the stronger the effect will be. Griffith goes to the hill of swords to see if he really didn't feel anything towards the deaths of his men, and when it's confirmed that he doesn't, he proclaims that he's "FINALLY free", indicating that he's lost empathy that was once there. THIS is how it is thematically relevant to his character arc. He finally embodies his persona of apathy that he had tried and failed to project during the Golden Age arc, and nothing is left except the spite he feels towards Guts. He always saw his empathy as his fatal flaw, and Femto raping Casca shows the consequences of the pursuit of such a toxically masculine ideal for the people around you. There is a reason I bring up Brightburn in a comparison with Homelander from The Boys. Brandon is less engaging as a character once you remove any semblance of agency that Homelander does. So it of course depends on your interpretation, but any interpretation that voids both Griffith and Femto of any wrongdoing by issue of these fundamentally changes is fundamentally erroneous, if I understand your point. Maybe I do not. It could be that you are saying we should hate Femto instead then? To me, that position actually has some semblance of sense; however, if Griffith willingly gave up his humanity in the way that you describe, than that still makes him culpable for what Femto did, especially if you consider his feelings towards Guts to be something he never handled in a healthy manner. Which well...we see how that turned out. This is essentially Griffith putting himself under the influence of a supernatural drug. You could perhaps argue a drunk driver never intended to get into an accident, but it was reckless all the same. Griffith should by your interpretation be reckless and selfish. Though to bring it back to the Eclipse and the killing themselves, I would not say consent is what you think it is. First and foremost, Griffith hearing that his men consent from people other than his men is complete rubbish. Consent is something that you have to hear out of the horse's mouth. I would also argue that the Band of Hawks loyalty to "die" for Griffith should not be taken to be applicable in every circumstance. There is a big difference between dying in battle and being torn apart by demons, something that Griffith was definitely aware of. You could argue that Griffith did not see the difference, and to be fair both are not pleasant ways to go. However, his men certainly did, and most anyone would understand that there is some difference in opinion here, just as there is a difference between a battle and a massacre. This is made all the more potent by their culture at the time regarding conflict and death. Necessity is not considered a defense towards murder, and this goes back to the case of R v Dudley and Stephens, which seems to be more relevant here than whatever mentall illness you want to ascribe towards Griffith. I say this for a number of reasons. 1. Griffith was given foreknowledge of his life if he did not make the Eclipse. He was alive. 2. Because of number #1, we could then determine that the choice was between becoming a member of the Godhand and not a member, rather than whatever lack of consent you want to ascribe to Griffith. 3. Because of #1 Griffith was therefore not threatened by the Godhand, but tempted and manipulated. I do not know about you, but if someone has to kill hundreds of people to be restored to their former health, then that makes them a murderer. At least with Dudley and Stephens, they were faced with the prospect of literally starving to death, which I consider of far greater imminence than what Griffith was going through. You could argue that temptation and manipulation would have made Griffith not complicit in the Eclipse, but the important part was that he made that choice. Simply being told things from otherwordly beings did not fully eclipse Griffith culpability, especially if a driving force was also his need to spite Guts for his "betrayal". Are we also going to ignore the fact that Griffith attempted to rape Casca pre-eclipse after being rescued? It is a pitiable choice, but still something considered wrong. To me, Griffith engaging in this is him reasserting his power over others, something that has been a discussion on the cultural value of sex for quite awhile. To which I want to address you. There is a reason why I quoted this line of yours from that video. This unhinged, vitrolic hate frothing at the mouth for Griffith keeps them from appreciating how well-written Berserk is Many people dislike and hate Griffith for what he has done while still thinking he is one of the most well-written characters in fiction. I say this because at your age, I was a know-it-all too who had difficulty understanding the opinions of others, and honestly? Maybe we will always disagree on this topic, and that much is fine. However, I do urge you to at least be cognizant of how condescending you and I could be. A good point to keep in mind is to discredit the position, but minimize any and all assumptions about the people who hold them, at least the negative ones.I think Griffith is a well-written character, and I hate him. Those two are not mutually incompatible. To give you advice, i would say that instead of saying "appreciating how well-written Berserk is", appreciating the more nuance parts of Griffiths' arc might be better. The former implies that you, a 19 year old is somehow alone in "understanding" Berserk. Please understand how you are coming across to others. I also want to address this portion. Sichlitt said: If you disagree with this post then you don't understand how consent works and I'm concerned for the women in your life. Do you not understand what you are implying here when you make a statement like this? Am I a rapist for disagreeing over you over the culpability of a fictional character in a work as complex as Berserk? Sichlitt said: You can't condemn a person for being taken advantage of when they literally don't even know where they are and can't think properly. If you do then you're supporting exploitation and manipulation. Mental illness is a pretty broad category of mental health issues. Not everyone who has depression is completely broken from reality that some people with paranoid schizophrenia are, just like borderline personality disorders. I say this because this part and your video on legality touch on two very, very complex areas that I am certainly no expert in myself. The law and mental health. I am sorry if it appears that I am condescending to you, but I speak from experience as both a former 19 year old and a still self-centered 27 year old who makes these mistakes all the time. I think you possibly meant "psychotic disorder", which is what you seem to be referring to in the original post here. If you are curious, I do have a response for that by the way on what Griffith was experiencing was not the same as a psychotic disorder. It is very difficult to know what we do not know. I do not know how little I know about the law because I am not in the legal profession, and I doubt you are as well. I am also worried that you included a video on a Jordan Peterson AI, though I have to even begin watching it. |
PeripheralVisionMay 29, 2023 8:52 AM
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| I'm just happy that people like this exists, just for us to laugh at |
| Check out SNAFU |
Sichlitt said: mason_black said: So you didn't even skim it.I kinda just skimmed what you said, but this is what I gotta say he killed his whole squad (except for guts and casca) just to become a God hand because he was close to dying. That's pretty unethical he was a terrible person since day one and shoulda died I did. I only read up to the part where you were talking about mental illness and decided to skim it from there |
| "Tits don't make the woman. It's the ass." - Darx |
Oh yes, "Griffith did nothing wrong". |
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| To follow up my final post, the big issue with your point is likening Griffith's state pre-eclipse as akin to something like paranoid schizophrenia, but here is the thing. Paranoid Schizophrenia for most individuals is not simply hallucinations, but affects how your mind actually works. This is a staggeringly common misconception about the disease. Some have gestured thing such as "well, if you see a blue gumby in the background, surely any reasonable person would be able to identify that as being a hallucination, right?" Except this is not how it works, severe cases of schizophrenia not only mess with your perception with reality, what you see and experience, but how you can inteperet those things. To put it a list format.
Number 2 is very important. It is difficult to explain, but it more akin to involuntary inebriation or being forcefully put under the influence. This is not what Griffith experienced. Sichlitt said: The result left him mentally broken. He showcased erratic violent behavior in his confused and emaciated state (tried to strangle Guts), experienced frequent hallucinations (often conjured by the God Hand) during which he had NO AWARENESS OF HIS EXTERNAL SURROUNDINGS, and most damning of all, he attempted to commit SUICIDE about 10 minutes before being coerced into signing the contract. Griffith more or less kept his ability to rationalize. He may have been subjected to views and hallucinations, but he is fully able to comprehend that yes, these are hallucinations for the most part. He is not psychotic, he is not experiencing a break from reality that a schizophrenic does. He might not comprehend what he is seeing, but he is still capable of distinguishing them from reality Otherwise, you might gesture that Kakashi from Naruto did not intend to kill Itachi simply because what he attempted to stab was a hallucination. You could argue that people who hit on Kirito from Sword Art Online, who at the time looked like a very feminine looking boy were not responsible or had any control from their actions. Like Griffith, they were subjected to a reality that was misleading, but all had the competency to actually realize when they have been duped or that what they were experiencing was very different from what actually is. Your other attempts just make Griffith pitiable, but not innocent. If someone had a shitty and painful childhood, that does not give them any special right to hurt others. Replace shitty childhood with a year in a torture dungeon, and you have Griffith again. The fact you think Griffith's empathy overrode his ambition is laughably insane. He was desperate because of the position he was in, and ultimately I imagine it would take a will of steel many of us, including myself, do not possess in order to not be swayed by the God Hand's offer. However, he still was capable of saying no. He was not on some psychotic break, and in a world where magic exists, one could argue that magical hallucinations are just normal. Again, trying to say Griffith had no agency in his transformation to Femto completely undermines the tragedy of his arc. How unsatisfying is it to claim that Griffith was mind-controlled, or that he is a robot with no ill-will carrying out preprogrammed instructions? It is insane. |
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